Bernard Sumner & Confederate Flag?

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote:

Tarbox23 wrote:

That's great. Do you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation, or is it simply your intent to look like a complete half-wit?

Well i though it was funny...

see, this whole thread with the idiocy of the likes of Jed from Texas "More State Sanctioned Murders in World History" Nation is why the Union had to beat down on the pathetic Confederacy.

thank god Bush is gone soon.

As usual, with my horrible timing, what does this have to do with Bernard? It seems that point was lost under the civil war NOOL story time session.

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote:

Tarbox23 wrote: see, this whole thread with the idiocy of the likes of Jed from Texas "More State Sanctioned Murders in World History" Nation is why the Union had to beat down on the pathetic Confederacy.

thank god Bush is gone soon.

Funny you mention Bush, as he is one of yours. He was born in Connecticut, not Texas.

It is quite obvious that you do not really have a grasp of history, so I await you next lame attempt at insulting me.

Yet you dare to mention my idiocy.

Can you make me chuckle again?

Good call.

yep, chuckle away as you kill another black man whose dna will clear him two years from now.

texas murders more people per year, state sanctioned, than any nation on earth.

makes me want to puke.

ha

ha

Tarbox23 wrote: and maybe a picture of a 'n*gger hangin from a tree' on a tshirt next time if he ever plays live again.

he can use my Family Crest then: Seriously, that's our coat of arms!

(it comes from the family having been bards/poets for centuries - 'slaves to the scroll' & can be an any-coloured man or even a hound tied to the tree

But try explaining it to your coloured friends . . . )

Stop dissin' Texas. It is one of the few fooked up states we have. California which executes no one is the most fooked up.

Jeff, btw, I changed my mind on this issue. Nothing wrong with the soldiers flag. They fought against federal tyranny. Probably nothing more patriotic than realizing that your nation is wrong and leaving it in protest. Unfortunately, they had slaves. I often wish that that States today would have the balls to form a new CSA. If they thought that the feds were bad in the 1860s they would find the government much worse today. the ATF, Ruby Ridge, Waco, the TSA and Homeland Security and all the BS that got passed by both parties in wake of 911. Obama talks about change and hope yet he has never uttered a word about ending the 4th Reich.

end of rant

The Confederacy were still wrong, and they were still racist. Thats history. Nothing against Texas on my end. Lotta nice stuff in Texas.

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote:

Zachery Starkey wrote: The Confederacy were still wrong, and they were still racist. Thats history. Nothing against Texas on my end. Lotta nice stuff in Texas.

Yeah, the south was really really more racist than the north. That's why the Federal government (dominated by Yankees) almost wiped out the Native Americans/Indians after the Civil War. I guess civil rights and liberties didn't really apply to the redskins.

You northerners really need to look in the mirror before you start condemning the south. You lot ain't exactly got the greatest record when it comes to race relations.

Agreed on the Native American issue.

However......we in the North have had a much better record on race relations than you folks in the South in the past 50 years.

Emmet Till.

James Byrd

All those churches and things being blown up by the KKK in the 50s and 60s.

George Wallace.

George Lincoln Rockwell.

I am not saying the North is innocent. Far from it.

But we certainly have a better record on race relations in the past 50 years than you fine folks down South.

How did the Democratic Party lose the South?

By supporting CIVIL RIGHTS. Hmm....I wonder why?

Oh yeah, and don't forget..

THE CONFEDERACY WAS FOUNDED ON THE PRINCIPAL THAT AFRICAN AMERICANS WERE RACIALLY INFERIOR TO THE EUROPEAN WHITE MALE.

It was one of the cornerstones that the Confederacy was founded on, that blacks were inferior to whites and that slavery was thier natural state.

I never said that the South NOW was a bad place. But a major portion of the South leaving the Union was because they wanted to keep thier barbaric practice of slavery and no revisionism is going to change that.

What I wonder is this..

Why are YOU so defensive about it? Did your great great granparents have a plantation? Do you dislike minorities?

This entire thread was started simply about Bernards guitar sticker, which in its self is a light hearted joke.

No amount of excuses can cover the historical fact that bigotry has been and still is more prevalent in the South than anywhere else in the US.

It doesn't mean that I or anyone else thinks that all people from the South are racist. I happen to have many friends who come from the South who are wonderful people, but not one of them would defend the Confederacy.

In 1933 Germany elected Adolf Hitler Chancellor and put the Nazi Party into power because they promised to take care of the many economic issues plaguing Germany. Hitler ran a campaign blaming the Jews and other minorities for Germanys problems...people voted for him because he offered a scapegoat and an easy answer to a complex problem.

That does not excuse the Holocaust or World War Two. And I have not met a German who would defend why Hitler was elected.

You can prattle on all you want about the South leaving the Union because they felt the Federal government had too much power...and yes that was a reason and thats true...

But you cannot cover up the fact that the Confederacy's President believed in his heart that God made Africans to be slaves for White European Americans, and that that was a major reason for the Confederacy forming...so all the Good Ol Boys could protect thier "God Given Right" to enslave black people.

Again...why are you so defensive?

Zachery Starkey wrote:

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote:

Zachery Starkey wrote: The Confederacy were still wrong, and they were still racist. Thats history. Nothing against Texas on my end. Lotta nice stuff in Texas.

Yeah, the south was really really more racist than the north. That's why the Federal government (dominated by Yankees) almost wiped out the Native Americans/Indians after the Civil War. I guess civil rights and liberties didn't really apply to the redskins.

You northerners really need to look in the mirror before you start condemning the south. You lot ain't exactly got the greatest record when it comes to race relations.

Agreed on the Native American issue.

However......we in the North have had a much better record on race relations than you folks in the South in the past 50 years.

Emmet Till.

James Byrd

All those churches and things being blown up by the KKK in the 50s and 60s.

George Wallace.

George Lincoln Rockwell.

I am not saying the North is innocent. Far from it.

But we certainly have a better record on race relations in the past 50 years than you fine folks down South.

How did the Democratic Party lose the South?

By supporting CIVIL RIGHTS. Hmm....I wonder why?

Oh yeah, and don't forget..

THE CONFEDERACY WAS FOUNDED ON THE PRINCIPAL THAT AFRICAN AMERICANS WERE RACIALLY INFERIOR TO THE EUROPEAN WHITE MALE.

It was one of the cornerstones that the Confederacy was founded on, that blacks were inferior to whites and that slavery was thier natural state.

I never said that the South NOW was a bad place. But a major portion of the South leaving the Union was because they wanted to keep thier barbaric practice of slavery and no revisionism is going to change that.

What I wonder is this..

Why are YOU so defensive about it? Did your great great granparents have a plantation? Do you dislike minorities?

This entire thread was started simply about Bernards guitar sticker, which in its self is a light hearted joke.

No amount of excuses can cover the historical fact that bigotry has been and still is more prevalent in the South than anywhere else in the US.

It doesn't mean that I or anyone else thinks that all people from the South are racist. I happen to have many friends who come from the South who are wonderful people, but not one of them would defend the Confederacy.

In 1933 Germany elected Adolf Hitler Chancellor and put the Nazi Party into power because they promised to take care of the many economic issues plaguing Germany. Hitler ran a campaign blaming the Jews and other minorities for Germanys problems...people voted for him because he offered a scapegoat and an easy answer to a complex problem.

That does not excuse the Holocaust or World War Two. And I have not met a German who would defend why Hitler was elected.

You can prattle on all you want about the South leaving the Union because they felt the Federal government had too much power...and yes that was a reason and thats true...

But you cannot cover up the fact that the Confederacy's President believed in his heart that God made Africans to be slaves for White European Americans, and that that was a major reason for the Confederacy forming...so all the Good Ol Boys could protect thier "God Given Right" to enslave black people.

Again...why are you so defensive?

Again, I wish people would look at history from 1775-1860 instead of the last 5 years before the war. There was turmoil before and it wasn't BASED on slaves, but on the seperation of power. Slaves had been an issue since the forming of the country, yes, and the war did have something to do with slavery but AGAIN the core issue was state versus federal power.

Next thing we know our future generations will stand staunchly behind the main reason to go to Iraq was to free Iraqis

EdelBrock wrote:

Zachery Starkey wrote:

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote:

Zachery Starkey wrote: The Confederacy were still wrong, and they were still racist. Thats history. Nothing against Texas on my end. Lotta nice stuff in Texas.

Yeah, the south was really really more racist than the north. That's why the Federal government (dominated by Yankees) almost wiped out the Native Americans/Indians after the Civil War. I guess civil rights and liberties didn't really apply to the redskins.

You northerners really need to look in the mirror before you start condemning the south. You lot ain't exactly got the greatest record when it comes to race relations.

Agreed on the Native American issue.

However......we in the North have had a much better record on race relations than you folks in the South in the past 50 years.

Emmet Till.

James Byrd

All those churches and things being blown up by the KKK in the 50s and 60s.

George Wallace.

George Lincoln Rockwell.

I am not saying the North is innocent. Far from it.

But we certainly have a better record on race relations in the past 50 years than you fine folks down South.

How did the Democratic Party lose the South?

By supporting CIVIL RIGHTS. Hmm....I wonder why?

Oh yeah, and don't forget..

THE CONFEDERACY WAS FOUNDED ON THE PRINCIPAL THAT AFRICAN AMERICANS WERE RACIALLY INFERIOR TO THE EUROPEAN WHITE MALE.

It was one of the cornerstones that the Confederacy was founded on, that blacks were inferior to whites and that slavery was thier natural state.

I never said that the South NOW was a bad place. But a major portion of the South leaving the Union was because they wanted to keep thier barbaric practice of slavery and no revisionism is going to change that.

What I wonder is this..

Why are YOU so defensive about it? Did your great great granparents have a plantation? Do you dislike minorities?

This entire thread was started simply about Bernards guitar sticker, which in its self is a light hearted joke.

No amount of excuses can cover the historical fact that bigotry has been and still is more prevalent in the South than anywhere else in the US.

It doesn't mean that I or anyone else thinks that all people from the South are racist. I happen to have many friends who come from the South who are wonderful people, but not one of them would defend the Confederacy.

In 1933 Germany elected Adolf Hitler Chancellor and put the Nazi Party into power because they promised to take care of the many economic issues plaguing Germany. Hitler ran a campaign blaming the Jews and other minorities for Germanys problems...people voted for him because he offered a scapegoat and an easy answer to a complex problem.

That does not excuse the Holocaust or World War Two. And I have not met a German who would defend why Hitler was elected.

You can prattle on all you want about the South leaving the Union because they felt the Federal government had too much power...and yes that was a reason and thats true...

But you cannot cover up the fact that the Confederacy's President believed in his heart that God made Africans to be slaves for White European Americans, and that that was a major reason for the Confederacy forming...so all the Good Ol Boys could protect thier "God Given Right" to enslave black people.

Again...why are you so defensive?

Again, I wish people would look at history from 1775-1860 instead of the last 5 years before the war. There was turmoil before and it wasn't BASED on slaves, but on the seperation of power. Slaves had been an issue since the forming of the country, yes, and the war did have something to do with slavery but AGAIN the core issue was state versus federal power.

Next thing we know our future generations will stand staunchly behind the main reason to go to Iraq was to free Iraqis

Yes, you are right.

But myself and millions of other people seem to find the slavery issue to be more pressing than states rights. I wonder why that is? For the record, the Federal Government was right make slavery illegal...just as the Federal Goverment was right to override state rights and end segregation in schools in the 1950's.

I should make it clear... I DO NOT HATE THE SOUTH.

Aside from the race issue we have been discussing, the South has contributed many awesome things to American culture. The Blues, Martin Luther King, New Orleans, Cajun Food, Rock and Roll and William Faulkner being just a few things among many.

Jesus fucking christ is there not a more appropriate forum for all of this bollocks?

At least it could me moved to BCD.

There are remixes to discuss you know.

I honestly cannot believe the argument has gone on for this long.

I got a haircut today. Woo hooo.

Well if you will keep posting, it probably will.

Or do you normally find that everyone has seen sense and agreed with you by now?

Tip: They're PRETENDING!

Did you have much off?

Actually, I didn't even start this argument and pretty much stayed out of it until the past few days. I was pretty happy earlier to just mention that Barney's sticker is a sort of joke. I wouldn't consider this thread to be my argument at all.

However, I have found the debate here to be pretty interesting, and reading Jeffari al-texani's views about the South and states rights and all has actually been really interesting and eye opening, even if I don't neccesarily agree with it. I am a big fan of debating issues and learning about why someone might disagree with me.

Just because I disagree with someone does not mean that I do not respect them or thier views, and that goes for everyone who posted on this thread. I mean no harm or disrespect. The fellow who plays keyboards in my band is a bit Libertarian....I am very much a liberal.....but I enjoy and respect hearing his views and we are good friends. Politics is not everything.

Oh, I got the back and sides of my hair faded and a bit trimmed off the top. The girl who cut it did a fantastic job.

I'm sure it's a fascinating discussion if you give the first shite about any of it.

My point is that it has nothing whatsoever to do with New Order; the original question having been done to death (and, for that matter, answered).

Did the stylist push her diddies into the side of your head?

I agree. It has nothing to do with New Order, and if you are a Brit, yes its probably not very interesting.

I am afraid that the stylist did not push her diddies in the side of my head, but she did give me a cup of hot tea that was quite good.

Quite happy with my cut. its sort of like a mid 80s Barney cut....but with longer bangs and a side parting.

A gentleman refers to his fringe as BANGS in America?

I thought that was just ladies! Like the Bangles.

Well fuck me I've learned something amazing today. I am very surprised indeed.

Can't see it coming in useful, mind, given the state of my hairline these days

Yup, generally in the US, fringes are bangs. Amazing, is it not?

Well, you know, in th old days it was said that a receding hairline indicicated intelligence.

In the Sherlock Holmes story "The Final Problem", Professor Moriarty, the criminal genius, is bald, and he says to Holmes, "You have less frontal development than I would have expected."

So what is up with that sticker anyways?

Jeff from Texas sent the sticker to Bernard, and the KKK agreed to pay them both $1 million each if it was advertised on the guitar.

and the Civil War was about State Rights and not Slave Rights...

yep indeed!

as long as the state rights involved being allowed to keep slaves

God will it ever stop?!

The North won and the South lost.

Cause God loves Yankees and hates slave owners.

LOcK TeH THrEAD!!!!!!!!!!!