Still the same track-/timelistings as last week ... seems Shellshock & True Dub are STILL missing 3 minutes plus.

We have to wait for the discs to see how things will work out.

:\ohwell:

Not bad when they're £6 each in a month or two. Any art work released yet?

Why BM and the Beach back to back and to start the bonus disc to boot...

I stand by what i said in the last thread, not a surprise for NO to F this up... kinda expected:\ohwell:

Mmm I can´t understand, the same version of "State of the Nation" in Low Life (Bonus Disc) and Brotherhood???

:\ohwell:

Grrr...

"State of the Nation" ending Brotherhood = EPIC FAIL!

they're a bit steep at £15 quid but why give up a habit of a lifetime eh:)

To quote the immortal tony wilson, portrayed by Steve Coogan in 24 hour party people "Oh For F*ck's sake!" I kid, I kid, these arent too bad! Can't wait to get technique and PCL.

Josman wrote: Mmm I can´t understand, the same version of "State of the Nation" in Low Life (Bonus Disc) and Brotherhood???

:\ohwell:

Further proof (if needed) that someone somewhere is having great difficulty with the whole 'arse/elbow' dichotomy.

I'd say it was a schoolboy error, but at least a schoolboy have have shown a bit imagination.

I know I will buy them for my upcoming birthday, no matter what. However, I agree that they should have done better with the bonus tracks.

At least it seems that Blue Monday won't have the first few beats cut off this time.

"Movement- The early Singles and b-sides. Both versions of Ceremony, the original Temptation 7” and 12”, Everything’s Gone Green 12” and rarity Cries and Whispers"

Movement – bonus disc

1. Ceremony (04.25) 2. Temptation (7.01)
2. In A Lonely Place (06.14)
3. Everything’s Gone Green (05.32)
4. Procession (04.29)
5. Mesh (03.27)
6. Hurt (08.07)
7. Cries And Whispers (03.03)
8. Ceremony (Alt. Version) (04.36) 10. Temptation

So which is which here? The 12" is longer than 7:01 and track ten has no time.

As mentioned earlier... 'State of the nation' on two of the cd's is a piss take. If it's anywhere, it should be on the bonus cd of Brotherhood (not the original album).

No 'The Happy One' again..! I take it that there is no full version of it in existance...

Once again, a waste of a brilliant oppertunity to bring the fans what they want...

Hey ho... I'll still be purchasing them... What can I say, i'm a hypocrite

Who can't spell the word opportunity...

fuck where is video 5-8-6

James Thomas wrote: Any art work released yet?

Amazon uk Amazon.de Amazon.fr Amazon jp

They should do a tour to promote these reissues!!

I'm sure they all have plenty of free time at the moment! the lazy buggers!

What about an USA release? Canada release?

Re-Member wrote: "Movement- The early Singles and b-sides. Both versions of Ceremony, the original Temptation 7” and 12”, Everything’s Gone Green 12” and rarity Cries and Whispers"

Movement – bonus disc

1. Ceremony (04.25) 2. Temptation (7.01)
2. In A Lonely Place (06.14)
3. Everything’s Gone Green (05.32)
4. Procession (04.29)
5. Mesh (03.27)
6. Hurt (08.07)
7. Cries And Whispers (03.03)
8. Ceremony (Alt. Version) (04.36) 10. Temptation

So which is which here? The 12" is longer than 7:01 and track ten has no time.

Temptation 1987 clocks in at about 7:00, so maybe that's it. Hopefully then track 10 is the original 12", or maybe the 7"+12" mixed into one 14 minute track?

Nic, any info on Republic's re-issue? It's included in the Live In Glasgow DVD advertisment card.

So far 3 odd things:

1. If Temptation on Movement disc is the 87 version - absolutely out of place, for the sound's sake!
2. Having The Beach following Blue Monday (according to the overall logic of these reissues, they should put it somewhere further on the disc, like Confusion).
3. State of The Nation is on Brotherhood the album CD (I know, it's on all Brotherhood CDs, but then the same song on Low-Life bonus CD??)

Spotnick wrote:

Sheds on a Plane wrote: Grrr...

"State of the Nation" ending Brotherhood = EPIC FAIL!

Having the canadian CD, I'm kind of used to this

that's weird..

actually, my version ends with 'bizarre love triangle (shep pettibone mix), after 'state of the nation'..

maybe one of them is 'shame of the nation'..on the new releases..

later -1

James Shum wrote: Temptation 1987 clocks in at about 7:00, so maybe that's it. Hopefully then track 10 is the original 12", or maybe the 7"+12" mixed into one 14 minute track?

more likely, its just the 7", why would they combine them?

later -1

Glad to see this site counts for something then....ie.fuck all,as nobody listened

I'm so fookin' disappointed.Very poor

-1 wrote:

James Shum wrote: Temptation 1987 clocks in at about 7:00, so maybe that's it. Hopefully then track 10 is the original 12", or maybe the 7"+12" mixed into one 14 minute track?

more likely, its just the 7", why would they combine them?

later -1

They were supposed to be combined to offer a complete listening experience: that's why the 7" has a cold start and fades out while it's the opposite for the 12".

Altough putting the 1987 Substance version here doesn't respect the chronology, I'd be happy to have a remastered version of it. The 12" can be found in Retro and the 7" in Singles, so I don't care much about which one will be here (12" would of course be better). They should have done the same with Confusion, imho.

Apparently we'll eventually get unabridged versions of The Perfect Kiss, Subculture and Hurt, which is nice , but not of Shellshock . And, looking at their lengths, they're again going to misslabel Mesh and Cries & Whispers .

what a pile of pants is all i can say,, if i want to listen to most of the tracks i can dig me vinyl out.

£15 a go ,,yup bargain basement is where this boy (sorry that should read old git, im just delusional,, like thinking this was gonna be good)is going.

and who was it on this site that promised us real rare stuff, surprises ,, yea right.

this tim e of night

Sorry, everybody, but this really is very disappointing. The Joy Division re-issues were of interest because, with the exception of Unknown Pleasures which included a live gig already released on Heart and Soul except for 2 tracks, we were at least treated to some unreleased material. In an interview from a few months back, Peter Hook was gushing about all the gems they had rediscovered from the lost Rob Gretton bank vault, including lots of live gigs. This would have been the chance to release these but instead we are offered a bunch of bonus tracks that diehard New Order fans already have, often on several releases already. I was saving up for these but now I guess I'll spend my cash elsewhere. This is a real sham(e).

79 order wrote: and who was it on this site that promised us real rare stuff, surprises ,, yea right

The insert that came with the Live in Glasgow DVD states the following: New OrderCollector's EditionRemastered And ExpandedIn A 2-Disc SetWith Non-Album Singles,B-Sides, Remixes,New Liner Notes,And More!

London Records really didn't promise much beyond what the current track listing revealed. They were right on target with what the insert said and this is as good as it gets with them, for better or worse.

Spotnick wrote: For the record, I'll have a few copies to give away.

Give them away to people who bitch about these releases, so they won't have to buy them :)

Few copies to give away ???

mmmmmmm, sounds interesting ? how can we corrupt you ?

I'd second the wanting a few copies.

Re-member, your point is well taken about nothing being promised in the re-releases that won't be delivered.

However, I just think it's a shame that I could put together more interesting re-releases from my personal archives than they are doing from the official archives.

I would buy official copies of these in a heartbeat:

1984 BBC Session

1985 Live concert on Spanish TV

Hooky said they found soundboard tapes of their appearance with the Smiths at the Tenth Festival at GMEX in Manchester on 19 July 1986. That's the kind of bonus tracks I am interested in and would be perfectly happy to part with hard-earned cash for. As Hooky would say, where the @#! are they?

never mind soundboard, it was also filmed. In addition 10th summer was recorded in stereo by the BBC, mixed and broadcast on Picadilly, so soundboard probably isn't as good!

Movement – bonus disc

1. Ceremony (04.25)
2. Temptation (7.01)
3. In A Lonely Place (06.14)
4. Everything’s Gone Green (05.32)
5. Procession (04.29)
6. Mesh (03.27)
7. Hurt (08.07)
8. Cries And Whispers (03.03)
9. Ceremony (Alt. Version) (04.36)
10. Temptation

Having now heard one of the promo sets I can state that...

1. Ceremony is the second version with the original at track 9.
2. Temptation is the 1987 version. 6+8. Are named the wrong way around....again!
3. Isn't there at all, so no original version of Temptation on the disc at all.

Of course the final editions might be named correctly though I think the audio will remain the same.

Brotherhood (1986)

1. Paradise (03.49)
2. Weirdo (03.51)
3. As It Is When It Was (03.43)
4. Broken Promise (03.46)
5. Way Of Life (04.04)
6. Bizarre Love Triangle (04.20)
7. All Day Long (05.10)
8. Angel Dust (03.41)
9. Every Little Counts (04.26)
10. State Of The Nation (06.32)

Brotherhood – bonus disc

1. Bizarre Love Triangle (06.43)
2. 1963 (05.37)
3. True Faith (Shep Pettibone Remix) (09.03)
4. Touched By The Hand Of God (07.06)
5. Blue Monday '88 (07.10)
6. Evil Dust (03.43)
7. True Faith - True Dub (07.51)
8. Beach Buggy (07.20)

The other big errors are putting State Of The Nation on Disc one (wasn't on the album originally except in some territories) and putting 'True Faith-94 (eschreamer dub)' on disc 2.

edit: State was on the original Factory CD so I guess it's fine.

Many people here seem to be disappointed... In my opinion, the interesting thing is that we get all this old material most of us indeed already own in remastered versions. I didn't expect unrealeased bonus material. However, what disappoints me is the lack of consistence of the whole set: why Temptation 87 and not 12" while we get Confusion 12" and not 87? Why TPK full 12" but not Shellshock full 12"? Why 1963 original 12" but not True Faith? Why some tracks from Salvation but not all?

But my biggest fear is about the quality of the remastered versions. Hopefully they'll make a better job than with Singles, but I wouldn't bet they will.

Ace.£6 each in the bargain bucket by Christmas. £30 all in for the lot .A nice little xmas present for me.Although i'll never be arsed to play them.Hmmm

http://www.play.com/Music/CD/4-/6411053/Movement/Product.html Disc 2 10. Temptation (12" Mix)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Movement-New-Order/dp/B001EMPUGM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1220052051&sr=1-2 Disc 2 10. Temptation (12\x{201d} Mix)

johnny james wrote: Having now heard one of the promo sets I can state that...

johnny,

any thoughts about the sound quality of the album tracks, or the bonus discs?

thanks

later -1

Aaron Gerritz wrote: Re-member, your point is well taken about nothing being promised in the re-releases that won't be delivered.

However, I just think it's a shame that I could put together more interesting re-releases from my personal archives than they are doing from the official archives.

I would buy official copies of these in a heartbeat:

1984 BBC Session

1985 Live concert on Spanish TV

Hooky said they found soundboard tapes of their appearance with the Smiths at the Tenth Festival at GMEX in Manchester on 19 July 1986. That's the kind of bonus tracks I am interested in and would be perfectly happy to part with hard-earned cash for. As Hooky would say, where the @#! are they?

yeah, maybe you would, but along with, what 10 other people?

it all comes down to marketing, and for the prospects of advertising, and pressing these, there would hardly be any return on the investment, since there are so few fans left to get them...

could they be gauging interest with these remasters to see how much of a demand there really is?

how well did the other BBC live release do? how well did either one of the peel sessions releases do? or even the more recent live sessions?

i dont think they broke any sales records, or matched any of the previous sales...

================================================= is there a possibility that somewhere down the line, they will consider to start releasing more specialty releases?

yes, we can hope...

but once again, i'm not holding my breath..

later -1

I'd buy an unreleased fart by new Order in a heartbeat.

I won't be buying these. I've got everything. And there's a ton of stuff that came out at the time that's missing : Sputnik, Skullcrusher, TBHOG (original), Sister Ray (live), Homage, Video 586 etc etc. These tracklistings are sloppy, and easy. Compiled by someone with neither love nor care for the bands legacy, nor a thought for how this material will sound as a listening experience in their own right. This tracklisting is shite, full stop, end of.

We've been milked enough. This particular cow is dry. When they put out something worth buying, I'll buy it.

Tokoloshe Man wrote:

Disc 2 10. Temptation (12\x{201d} Mix)

Looks like some kind of math equation.

Here's another:

2. Temptation-87 = Me not buying this

Aaron Gerritz wrote: Re-member, your point is well taken about nothing being promised in the re-releases that won't be delivered.

However, I just think it's a shame that I could put together more interesting re-releases from my personal archives than they are doing from the official archives.

I totally agree. I'm not defending what's being put on these discs, but as a skeptic who generally expects the worse, I saw something like this coming from a mile away. Truth is everyone had some expectation of what they wanted these to be, but you can't please everyone.

My main complaint is that it's only common sense not to put Temptation-87 between Ceremony and In a Lonely Place, then State of the Nation on two separate sets. Apparently the word "chronological" means nothing to London Records. Even the liner notes of Substance shows the dates that the singles were released.

Aaron Gerritz wrote: Re-member, your point is well taken about nothing being promised in the re-releases that won't be delivered.

However, I just think it's a shame that I could put together more interesting re-releases from my personal archives than they are doing from the official archives.

I would buy official copies of these in a heartbeat:

1984 BBC Session

1985 Live concert on Spanish TV

Hooky said they found soundboard tapes of their appearance with the Smiths at the Tenth Festival at GMEX in Manchester on 19 July 1986. That's the kind of bonus tracks I am interested in and would be perfectly happy to part with hard-earned cash for. As Hooky would say, where the @#! are they?

As Tim has all but spelled out in previous threads, expect lots of archive stuff to be available from a new official website in a few months' time.

Peter

They put almost all of the singles A and B sides... pretty straight forward. Peel Session would have been nice, but then they are easy to get elsewhere. Some nice live extras like "When I'm With You" would have been great.

Not terrible, pretty much what is expected and little else. Who really knows what is available, and since Bernard doesn't want to help it seems, what do you really expect.

maybe jack all the bootlegs together and put them in chrono with what gigs they were played at. then maybe people will be happy? aye? yo? no?

bitch much?

Ok so we've ALL bitched but hands up the peeps who will be buying them on release day.......

I think i'll wait for the bargain bin!

Fucking wank warners,SURELY these have to be the LAST new order releases?

Just goes to show how much notice they take of the fans!

This site has given more new order "promo" than one of the biggest.if not the niggest record company in the world,i dont think i'll ever buy anything again from warners,i think i'll actively look for snide copies on the internet!

dissapointed of barnsley!

Best plan of action is to wait for the price to come down. I'm going to use my Nectar points so they won't cost me real money.

I found some information about the contents on the web:

Movement - The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original Martin Hannett production. True to the original CD release, the unnecessary first few beats of the song "Senses" will not be included. Bonus disc highlights include: The early Singles and b-sides, but in the wrong order. The original Temptation ("original mix" - aka 5/87 version - from Facd193) and rarity Cries and Whispers (taken from the rare "Substance" double album and sought-after "Retro" 4CD set), although on the back cover it is listed as "Mesh" (a slight typographical error).

Power, Corruption and Lies - The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Bonus disc highlights include: The 12" singles versions of Blue Monday (unfortunately, the first beat of the song is missing, we apologize for the inconvenience this may cause), Confusion, Thieves Like Us and Murder. Although there was ground-breaking material recorded throughout 1982, it was decided instead include the flip-sides of the singles: The Beach, Confused Beats, Lonesome Tonight and Thieves Like Us Instrumentals. All previously available on the "Substance" and "Retro".

Low-Life The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. We have gone to great lengths to ensure the legendary "brutal choppy-chop-chop whoops-there-went-half-a-verse" edit of "Perfect Kiss" is still present on this sparkling Collectors Edition. Bonus disc highlights include: "State Of The Nation", more 12" single versions (except Shellshock where, for technical reasons, we couldn't fit in the whole song - a CD can only hold a maximum of 55 minutes of music) of album tracks and their b-sides. Let's Go Instrumental and Salvation Theme from the film soundtrack (the tracks "Skullcrusher", "Sputnik", and the original band mix of "Touched By The Hand Of God" could not be located in time - we apologize for the inconvenience). The original version of "Let's Go", although recorded during the "Low-life" album sessions, was out-voted in favour of the masterpiece "Dub-vulture" which closes this magnificent collection.

Brotherhood The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Includes special bonus track "State Of The Nation" (previously available on the "Low-life" bonus disc above). Bonus disc highlights include: Two versions of Blue Monday 1988 (you can never have enough versions of this classic song). Dance mixes from Shep Pettibone of Bizarre Love Triangle and True Faith. Also includes a track listed as "True Dub": this should in fact be "True Faith -94 (the bouncey bouncey dance remix)" - a typograhical error, we apologize for the inconvenience.

Technique The original CD made louder to the (vanishing) point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Bonus disc highlights include: The 12" singles Run2 (sort of, it is in fact only half the single) and Round&Round (in its club remix form, not the extended 12", despite what it says on the tin), and rare b-sides MTO (remix only, original version not featured), Best and Marsh (from "Retro") and Vanishing Point Instrumental. The Steve Silk Hurley remix of Fine Time. New Order's last release on Factory/MCA Records and only NO 1 UK Single, World In Motion in it's Carabinieri mix (we can't spell, so on this release it will be called the "Cabinieri" mix). It was decided that the Rob Gretton favourite "The Happy One", although recorded during the Technique sessions, should be left out to make space for the previously mentioned (and previously released) "Fine Time" and "World In Motion" remixes.

Personally, I think I'll save my money for the "Republic" re-release with its five Sly & Robbie remixes of "Ruined In A Day" and three unique Paul Oakenfold mixes of "World" on the bonus disc.

meh, all i want is "the happy one" and the original version of "MTO" ahhh bugger!!

Hmmm...

• "rare "Substance" double album" - since when is Substance rare?

• Blue Monday missing the first beat? WTF?

• typograhical errors?

• they couldn't locate the other Salvation stuff in time? What is it playing hide and seek or something?

This is a disaster.

£50 Guy wrote: World In Motion in it's Carabinieri mix (we can't spell, so on this release it will be called the "Cabinieri" mix).

Ryan wrote: Hmmm...

• "rare "Substance" double album" - since when is Substance rare?

• Blue Monday missing the first beat? WTF?

• typograhical errors?

• they couldn't locate the other Salvation stuff in time? What is it playing hide and seek or something?

This is a disaster.

Relax, Ryan! That post is obviously taking the piss on Warners' marketeers. The truth is much worse, of course!

Ryan wrote: Hmmm...

• "rare "Substance" double album" - since when is Substance rare?

• Blue Monday missing the first beat? WTF?

• typograhical errors?

• they couldn't locate the other Salvation stuff in time? What is it playing hide and seek or something?

This is a disaster.

Add to this, the fact that the remastering sounds like they'ved just compressed the fuck out the originals and made them louder.

I've made my mind up. I WILL NOT BE BUYING THESE ON ACCOUNT OF THEM BEING FUCKING USELESS AND POINTLESS.

If you're going to do something, do it properly. Otherwise it's a waste of time and money - two commodities that I'm not going to waste on this shower of cunts masquerading as people who know what they're doing.

Emile Strunz wrote:

Ryan wrote: Hmmm...

• "rare "Substance" double album" - since when is Substance rare?

• Blue Monday missing the first beat? WTF?

• typograhical errors?

• they couldn't locate the other Salvation stuff in time? What is it playing hide and seek or something?

This is a disaster.

Add to this, the fact that the remastering sounds like they'ved just compressed the fuck out the originals and made them louder.

I've made my mind up. I WILL NOT BE BUYING THESE ON ACCOUNT OF THEM BEING FUCKING USELESS AND POINTLESS.

If you're going to do something, do it properly. Otherwise it's a waste of time and money - two commodities that I'm not going to waste on this shower of cunts masquerading as people who know what they're doing.

Erm, the fifty quid guy was taking the piss! :p

Monsieur Round & Round wrote:

Ryan wrote: Hmmm...

• "rare "Substance" double album" - since when is Substance rare?

• Blue Monday missing the first beat? WTF?

• typograhical errors?

• they couldn't locate the other Salvation stuff in time? What is it playing hide and seek or something?

This is a disaster.

Relax, Ryan! That post is obviously taking the piss on Warners' marketeers. The truth is much worse, of course!

It is? I couldn't tell.

But yes, it's still a disaster regardless.

yayyyy marketing destitution! Though, not a good way to sell albums.

SHAME OF THE NATION:

This is it ... I made up my mind today :I don't need this shitty New Order reissues because of the bonus discs. I'm NOT going to buy this pile of crap. NO WAY!

Especially because of what they said about Shellshock:

"except Shellshock where, for technical reasons, we couldn't fit in the whole song - a CD can only hold a maximum of 55 minutes of music".

Now please, if London Records think THIS is sounding logical to our ears/eyes, than they're wrong on every occasion. It's not even an argument to defend their ridiculous decision. Besides, a CD can hold up for about 80 minutes of music, so this 'excuse' is not legitimate.

And why do we need 2 identical versions of State Of The Nation? (on the bonus disc of Low Life and on the Brotherhood album). At least they could have included Shame Of The Nation on one of the two albums instead of the same version.

Furthermore because they THINK True Dub was 'misspelled', it had to be the '94-dub-version. This is also unforgiveable because it's a 90's mix and NO (Shep Pettibone) 80's mix (and all of the albums are from the 80's Factory years). Finally they included the 87-version of Temptation and NOT the original 12" (or even 7") on the Movement bonus disc AND SAYING this was the 'original version' of the song. How stupid can you get?!?!?!

It is getting worse and worse and worse everytime more news comes out of these bonus discs. I will NEVER buy any New Order stuff in my life anymore.

£50 Guy wrote: I found some information about the contents on the web:

Movement - The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original Martin Hannett production. True to the original CD release, the unnecessary first few beats of the song "Senses" will not be included. Bonus disc highlights include: The early Singles and b-sides, but in the wrong order. The original Temptation ("original mix" - aka 5/87 version - from Facd193) and rarity Cries and Whispers (taken from the rare "Substance" double album and sought-after "Retro" 4CD set), although on the back cover it is listed as "Mesh" (a slight typographical error).

Power, Corruption and Lies - The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Bonus disc highlights include: The 12" singles versions of Blue Monday (unfortunately, the first beat of the song is missing, we apologize for the inconvenience this may cause), Confusion, Thieves Like Us and Murder. Although there was ground-breaking material recorded throughout 1982, it was decided instead include the flip-sides of the singles: The Beach, Confused Beats, Lonesome Tonight and Thieves Like Us Instrumentals. All previously available on the "Substance" and "Retro".

Low-Life The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. We have gone to great lengths to ensure the legendary "brutal choppy-chop-chop whoops-there-went-half-a-verse" edit of "Perfect Kiss" is still present on this sparkling Collectors Edition. Bonus disc highlights include: "State Of The Nation", more 12" single versions (except Shellshock where, for technical reasons, we couldn't fit in the whole song - a CD can only hold a maximum of 55 minutes of music) of album tracks and their b-sides. Let's Go Instrumental and Salvation Theme from the film soundtrack (the tracks "Skullcrusher", "Sputnik", and the original band mix of "Touched By The Hand Of God" could not be located in time - we apologize for the inconvenience). The original version of "Let's Go", although recorded during the "Low-life" album sessions, was out-voted in favour of the masterpiece "Dub-vulture" which closes this magnificent collection.

Brotherhood The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Includes special bonus track "State Of The Nation" (previously available on the "Low-life" bonus disc above). Bonus disc highlights include: Two versions of Blue Monday 1988 (you can never have enough versions of this classic song). Dance mixes from Shep Pettibone of Bizarre Love Triangle and True Faith. Also includes a track listed as "True Dub": this should in fact be "True Faith -94 (the bouncey bouncey dance remix)" - a typograhical error, we apologize for the inconvenience.

Technique The original CD made louder to the (vanishing) point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Bonus disc highlights include: The 12" singles Run2 (sort of, it is in fact only half the single) and Round&Round (in its club remix form, not the extended 12", despite what it says on the tin), and rare b-sides MTO (remix only, original version not featured), Best and Marsh (from "Retro") and Vanishing Point Instrumental. The Steve Silk Hurley remix of Fine Time. New Order's last release on Factory/MCA Records and only NO 1 UK Single, World In Motion in it's Carabinieri mix (we can't spell, so on this release it will be called the "Cabinieri" mix). It was decided that the Rob Gretton favourite "The Happy One", although recorded during the Technique sessions, should be left out to make space for the previously mentioned (and previously released) "Fine Time" and "World In Motion" remixes.

Personally, I think I'll save my money for the "Republic" re-release with its five Sly & Robbie remixes of "Ruined In A Day" and three unique Paul Oakenfold mixes of "World" on the bonus disc.

I think someones' tongue is stuck firmly in someones' cheek
& as much as I've bitched,yes,I will be buying them because let's face it,even substandard N.O. releases beat the fook out of pretty much everything else.Let's face it,most of this is groundbreaking,history-making,serious fookin' quality material,so this is the end of my bitching( probably )

Nick King wrote:

Emile Strunz wrote:

Ryan wrote: Hmmm...

• "rare "Substance" double album" - since when is Substance rare?

• Blue Monday missing the first beat? WTF?

• typograhical errors?

• they couldn't locate the other Salvation stuff in time? What is it playing hide and seek or something?

This is a disaster.

Add to this, the fact that the remastering sounds like they'ved just compressed the fuck out the originals and made them louder.

I've made my mind up. I WILL NOT BE BUYING THESE ON ACCOUNT OF THEM BEING FUCKING USELESS AND POINTLESS.

If you're going to do something, do it properly. Otherwise it's a waste of time and money - two commodities that I'm not going to waste on this shower of cunts masquerading as people who know what they're doing.

Erm, the fifty quid guy was taking the piss! :p

Thanks, I was aware of the jocular nature of that post. I think humour is the only option. The fact is those errors and lazy choices will be very real at the end of September. Given the recent output of the band, you wouldn't bet against the remastering being total and utter gash

Im excited, the 87 version of temptation has FINALLY been remastered. This isn't all too negative friends, I mean what were we expecting? Hell, we could all pitch in stuff we've collected and make our own damn rare release collection. I know theres the excerpts from recycle boot, but nothing there is extremely rare. The least they couldve done is given a DVD ie Depeche, so I could rip higher end stereo files, can't please us all I suppose. This doesn't bother me too much, because being one of the newer fans it'll be a chance for me to get things like Run 2 and the like.

£50 Guy, some very funny stuff! And as as an only slightly more regular visitor to this site may i say, Welcome. If only everyone who moans on this site had your wit. More please!!

In the discography section on NOOL, albums and such say # people own this and # people want this.

For these reissues, it will be a few people own this and ZERO people want this.

Knuckles wrote: In the discography section on NOOL, albums and such say # people own this and # people want this.

For these reissues, it will be a few people own this and ZERO people want this.

speak for yourself, i've got all my copies pre-ordered, and can't wait until they arrive..

later -1

Debaser wrote: £50 Guy, some very funny stuff! And as as an only slightly more regular visitor to this site may i say, Welcome. If only everyone who moans on this site had your wit. More please!!

Doubt its someone new.... so who is running with the Alias of 50 pounds??? But definately my feelings on the whole remastering... didn't expect anything different, NO has had a history of not being in control of thier releases so why start now?

Knuckles wrote: In the discography section on NOOL, albums and such say # people own this and # people want this.

For these reissues, it will be a few people own this and ZERO people want this.

What a load of crap - you're assuming that most people are like you and want to make a massive deal about how disappointed they are about the tracklisting. You are aware that these are bonus discs, aren't you? As in, you are getting a remastered full album plus a second disc. Not all remastered CDs have a bonus disc, hence the word "bonus".

All assumptions about the "compressed to the point of distortion"- type remastering is...guess what...an assumption. Unless you've heard the discs and know them to be crap quality, you're talking shite, and should acknowledge as such.

Fair enough if you don't plan on buying it - vote with your feet and don't buy the friggin things, simple as that. But don't moan on about how gutted you are about not having "The Happy One" or whatever on CD...you are getting stuff that hasn't been on CD before, and it will be remasterd....Hooky himself says the remasters sound great...so maybe give them a slim chance to be half-decent releases, eh?

CTB

£50 Guy wrote: I found some information about the contents on the web:

Movement - The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original Martin Hannett production. True to the original CD release, the unnecessary first few beats of the song "Senses" will not be included. Bonus disc highlights include: The early Singles and b-sides, but in the wrong order. The original Temptation ("original mix" - aka 5/87 version - from Facd193) and rarity Cries and Whispers (taken from the rare "Substance" double album and sought-after "Retro" 4CD set), although on the back cover it is listed as "Mesh" (a slight typographical error).

Power, Corruption and Lies - The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Bonus disc highlights include: The 12" singles versions of Blue Monday (unfortunately, the first beat of the song is missing, we apologize for the inconvenience this may cause), Confusion, Thieves Like Us and Murder. Although there was ground-breaking material recorded throughout 1982, it was decided instead include the flip-sides of the singles: The Beach, Confused Beats, Lonesome Tonight and Thieves Like Us Instrumentals. All previously available on the "Substance" and "Retro".

Low-Life The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. We have gone to great lengths to ensure the legendary "brutal choppy-chop-chop whoops-there-went-half-a-verse" edit of "Perfect Kiss" is still present on this sparkling Collectors Edition. Bonus disc highlights include: "State Of The Nation", more 12" single versions (except Shellshock where, for technical reasons, we couldn't fit in the whole song - a CD can only hold a maximum of 55 minutes of music) of album tracks and their b-sides. Let's Go Instrumental and Salvation Theme from the film soundtrack (the tracks "Skullcrusher", "Sputnik", and the original band mix of "Touched By The Hand Of God" could not be located in time - we apologize for the inconvenience). The original version of "Let's Go", although recorded during the "Low-life" album sessions, was out-voted in favour of the masterpiece "Dub-vulture" which closes this magnificent collection.

Brotherhood The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Includes special bonus track "State Of The Nation" (previously available on the "Low-life" bonus disc above). Bonus disc highlights include: Two versions of Blue Monday 1988 (you can never have enough versions of this classic song). Dance mixes from Shep Pettibone of Bizarre Love Triangle and True Faith. Also includes a track listed as "True Dub": this should in fact be "True Faith -94 (the bouncey bouncey dance remix)" - a typograhical error, we apologize for the inconvenience.

Technique The original CD made louder to the (vanishing) point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Bonus disc highlights include: The 12" singles Run2 (sort of, it is in fact only half the single) and Round&Round (in its club remix form, not the extended 12", despite what it says on the tin), and rare b-sides MTO (remix only, original version not featured), Best and Marsh (from "Retro") and Vanishing Point Instrumental. The Steve Silk Hurley remix of Fine Time. New Order's last release on Factory/MCA Records and only NO 1 UK Single, World In Motion in it's Carabinieri mix (we can't spell, so on this release it will be called the "Cabinieri" mix). It was decided that the Rob Gretton favourite "The Happy One", although recorded during the Technique sessions, should be left out to make space for the previously mentioned (and previously released) "Fine Time" and "World In Motion" remixes.

Personally, I think I'll save my money for the "Republic" re-release with its five Sly & Robbie remixes of "Ruined In A Day" and three unique Paul Oakenfold mixes of "World" on the bonus disc.

This sounds so... real!

CTB wrote:

Knuckles wrote: In the discography section on NOOL, albums and such say # people own this and # people want this.

For these reissues, it will be a few people own this and ZERO people want this.

What a load of crap - you're assuming that most people are like you and want to make a massive deal about how disappointed they are about the tracklisting. You are aware that these are bonus discs, aren't you? As in, you are getting a remastered full album plus a second disc. Not all remastered CDs have a bonus disc, hence the word "bonus".

All assumptions about the "compressed to the point of distortion"- type remastering is...guess what...an assumption. Unless you've heard the discs and know them to be crap quality, you're talking shite, and should acknowledge as such.

Fair enough if you don't plan on buying it - vote with your feet and don't buy the friggin things, simple as that. But don't moan on about how gutted you are about not having "The Happy One" or whatever on CD...you are getting stuff that hasn't been on CD before, and it will be remasterd....Hooky himself says the remasters sound great...so maybe give them a slim chance to be half-decent releases, eh?

CTB

Whoa, sensing some hostility here. I never said anything about the sound quality of the remasters, that was someone else. I agree with you about Hooky's comment on the quality of the remasters. I was just highlighting the point that MANY people are disappointed with these releases, and have said so.

And please don't accuse me of making assumptions when you in fact are making assumptions. I'm not 'gutted' that The Happy One isn't available. I think there is plenty for someone, like me born post-True Faith to enjoy, so I will be buying these.

Knuckles wrote:

CTB wrote:

Knuckles wrote: In the discography section on NOOL, albums and such say # people own this and # people want this.

For these reissues, it will be a few people own this and ZERO people want this.

What a load of crap - you're assuming that most people are like you and want to make a massive deal about how disappointed they are about the tracklisting. You are aware that these are bonus discs, aren't you? As in, you are getting a remastered full album plus a second disc. Not all remastered CDs have a bonus disc, hence the word "bonus".

All assumptions about the "compressed to the point of distortion"- type remastering is...guess what...an assumption. Unless you've heard the discs and know them to be crap quality, you're talking shite, and should acknowledge as such.

Fair enough if you don't plan on buying it - vote with your feet and don't buy the friggin things, simple as that. But don't moan on about how gutted you are about not having "The Happy One" or whatever on CD...you are getting stuff that hasn't been on CD before, and it will be remasterd....Hooky himself says the remasters sound great...so maybe give them a slim chance to be half-decent releases, eh?

CTB

Whoa, sensing some hostility here. I never said anything about the sound quality of the remasters, that was someone else. I agree with you about Hooky's comment on the quality of the remasters. I was just highlighting the point that MANY people are disappointed with these releases, and have said so.

And please don't accuse me of making assumptions when you in fact are making assumptions. I'm not 'gutted' that The Happy One isn't available. I think there is plenty for someone, like me born post-True Faith to enjoy, so I will be buying these.

OK, well I'm sorry if you feel hostility was aimed at you in particular Knuckles - that wasn't my intent, it was only my first paragraph that specifically related to your comments. Although, to be fair, your initial comment did imply that you weren't too excited about these releases.

With that in mind, I didn't accuse you of anything - I was making a more general comment on the pessimism that many others had expressed in this and other threads about the remasters; and I was making the point that there are a few of us (including yourself, as I now understand) that will wait until we hear the things before we comment on them.

Sorry your post happened to be straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak - I'm just a bit fed up with all the whinging that other folks are making about these releases, and wanted to give another perspective that some NOOLers are actually kind of looking forward to these.

Cheers CTB

For shizzle.

I understand what you mean. First people were complaining about The Perfect Kiss, now its Shellshock. Soon it will be Jetstream.

Oh wait...

Sounds seriously underwhelming.

The only thing that even slightly attracts my attention is the Carib...Careb...Italian cops mix of WIM, just for completeness as its one thing I don't already have on cd. But for that I'll wait till its going for a fiver on ebay.

f this board hadn't whinged a few years ago there wouldn't had been a 5th Retro disc.

The plain facts are that we were all hoping for something a bit special - and what we've got is something which is uninspired, inconsistent, and contains errors and strange track choices

Cries and Whispers mislabeled (again) Temptation 1987 but no Confusion 1987 State of the Nation on two of the albums?? 1963 but no original True Faith True Dub mislabeled as it's a pointless 94 Tall Paul dance mix Round & Round is one of the club mixes and not the Stephen Hague 12" remix

These are just the obvious errors and don't highlight the lazy inclusion of what is on the 2nd disc. Remember, we were promised something special with things we hadn't heard before or weren't readily available, and also remember that we have far lesser bands releasing far superior packages for us to make comparisons.

I have practically everything by the band, but to have it released officially, and packaged beautifully...is that too much to fucking ask?

where were you when they made the decision to release these?

were you there when they decided the tracks?

why didn't you say anything before?

why did you wait until it was way too late to do anything about it?

dont' you think people on this board knew it was coming?

don't you think someone knew what options they were going to have?

don't you know how these decisions are made because of monetary and time constraint reasons, especially marketing, and have NOTHING to do with what you are complaining about?

blame yourselves for your own inaction, and inability to contact the proper people to ensure that these issues weren't dealt with at the proper time..

i've worked in program management, and if you don't work on the deadlines they give you, you aren't going to make it.... yes there are some small allowances for slippage and change..

but since we're already talking about a small set of pressings that are being released, there is no massive fanbase, like there are for the u2 remasters (which, by the way, still leave off a ton of tracks), or the bjork remasters, which missed a whole ton of mixes, and put videos on there etc......

so what financial advantage is it to delay this set, and 'fix' the issues...... NONE at ALL....

you (some complainers) act like there is something you can do that will fix what happenened, or that by writing some complaint here, it will be magically conveyed to the correct people..

why don't you contact rhino, or whoever your distributor is, and let them know, or is that too much work for you?

you would just rather complain here, along with the rest of the people, that think they're being 'cool' by putting down what others have been waiting for.....

well, what do i get out of this, i always try, i always miss.....

in the end you will submit, its got to hurt you a little bit..

you get what you deserve..

later -1

This is actually quite similar to what I did back in the 80s. I would take a cassette tape that had 45 minutes on each side. Record the album to the first side. Put the 12" and B sides of the same time period on the second side in whatever order seemed to make sense.

Of course I would had never put the Temptation 87 on the Movement cassette, cause that would have been really stupid.

-1 wrote: where were you when they made the decision to release these?

were you there when they decided the tracks?

why didn't you say anything before?

why did you wait until it was way too late to do anything about it?

dont' you think people on this board knew it was coming?

don't you think someone knew what options they were going to have?

don't you know how these decisions are made because of monetary and time constraint reasons, especially marketing, and have NOTHING to do with what you are complaining about?

blame yourselves for your own inaction, and inability to contact the proper people to ensure that these issues weren't dealt with at the proper time..

i've worked in program management, and if you don't work on the deadlines they give you, you aren't going to make it.... yes there are some small allowances for slippage and change..

but since we're already talking about a small set of pressings that are being released, there is no massive fanbase, like there are for the u2 remasters (which, by the way, still leave off a ton of tracks), or the bjork remasters, which missed a whole ton of mixes, and put videos on there etc......

so what financial advantage is it to delay this set, and 'fix' the issues...... NONE at ALL....

you (some complainers) act like there is something you can do that will fix what happenened, or that by writing some complaint here, it will be magically conveyed to the correct people..

why don't you contact rhino, or whoever your distributor is, and let them know, or is that too much work for you?

you would just rather complain here, along with the rest of the people, that think they're being 'cool' by putting down what others have been waiting for.....

well, what do i get out of this, i always try, i always miss.....

in the end you will submit, its got to hurt you a little bit..

you get what you deserve..

later -1

Thanks - I've also worked in music PR and marketing thanks very much.

Yes, the bottom line is always the bottom line - but New Order own the fucking masters of a few rarities that we were asking for, and it would have cost them nothing to actually think about putting something out special. I'm not talking about pulling the release (hell would freeze over first), I'm talking about when Warners and New Order sat down and discussed their strategies - this is all they could come up with.

In the end, for all your fiscal patronising, these releases will not sell as well as hoped, because they fucked up, and that, is the bottom line!

£50 Guy wrote: I found some information about the contents on the web:

Brotherhood The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Includes special bonus track "State Of The Nation" (previously available on the "Low-life" bonus disc above). Bonus disc highlights include: Two versions of Blue Monday 1988 (you can never have enough versions of this classic song). Dance mixes from Shep Pettibone of Bizarre Love Triangle and True Faith. Also includes a track listed as "True Dub": this should in fact be "True Faith -94 (the bouncey bouncey dance remix)" - a typograhical error, we apologize for the inconvenience.

If the remastered CDs are collections of NO songs released by Factory Records from the 1980s, then True Faith 94 definitely shouldn't be included. I would be very disappointed if True Dub is not a shorter version of the Alternate Faith Dub version.

were all of you disappointed when 'substance' was released with the shortened versions of songs, and newer mixes of songs put on there instead of the originals?

what about the vinyl having less tracks than the cds?

what about the cassettes having more tracks than the cd...

history repeating itself..

later -1

Is it possible though, that IF New Order does have and own all the rights to the rare stuff, London records or Warners would have wanted them to sign over the rights to them to let them appear on these reissues? Could be the reason that they are working on this website to sell them direct without having to deal with that....

OR, London/Warner are just being lazy as usual.

-1 wrote: were all of you disappointed when 'substance' was released with the shortened versions of songs, and newer mixes of songs put on there instead of the originals?

what about the vinyl having less tracks than the cds?

what about the cassettes having more tracks than the cd...

history repeating itself..

later -1

Does anybody here know what the True Faith -94 (the bouncey bouncey dance remix) sound like? I listened to the Tall Paul version for the first time earlier. I think it is completely out of sync with the rest of the remaster collection. I already have most of the remix CDs of NO. The only reason I'm getting the remastered CDs is because I was hoping to finally get nonpirated CD versions of True Faith (Alternate Faith Dub) & Run 2 (Extended). I already have digital copies of these but if True Dub is not related to Alternate Faith Dub, I might not pass up on Brotherhood Remastered.

ReyMatt wrote: I already have digital copies of these but if True Dub is not related to Alternate Faith Dub, I might not pass up on Brotherhood Remastered.

It's the Tall Paul Mix (aka Eschreamer Dub on a rare 12" promo), unfortunately, and not True Dub (aka Alternate Faith Dub)... :\ohwell:

(I don't have the promos, btw, just going on those that have)

Brian Barker wrote: Is it possible though, that IF New Order does have and own all the rights to the rare stuff, London records or Warners would have wanted them to sign over the rights to them to let them appear on these reissues? Could be the reason that they are working on this website to sell them direct without having to deal with that....

Possibly, but whatever the reason, I'd put money on the track selection on being nothing whatsoever to do with Warners/Rhino/whoever, but instead picked solely by the band...

Emile Strunz wrote: I have practically everything by the band, but to have it released officially, and packaged beautifully...is that too much to fucking ask?

Well, yes it is. Because it's not you deciding the track list, and its not designed specifically for you and no-one else.

If you've got practically everything by New Order, you'll know that no other CD release exists which has, for example: Dub Vulture Confusion (Alt mix) TPK (8.49 version) Run II

And there's stuff on the track lists which is not widely available on an official CD these days as well, such as: Mesh Let's Go Salvation theme Don't do it MTO Vanishing point Instrumental, etc.

CTB

CTB wrote:

If you've got practically everything by New Order, you'll know that no other CD release exists which has, for example: Dub Vulture Confusion (Alt mix) TPK (8.49 version) Run II

CTB

ctb, i agree with what you are saying 100% about picking tracks...

but you picked some bad ones.

ok, dub vulture is not on cd..

confusion (alt mix)-> rough mix? http://www.neworderonline.com/Music/Release.aspx?ReleaseID=294

if its the instrumental, thats on cd also.

if it really is some 'new' alternative mix ok....that is new then..

tpk (full version) -> several promos for international had it

run 2 -> found on the laserdisc, and can be easily ripped.

but yes, there are other tracks that you really can't find.. such as MTO that you mistakenly listed as hard to find on cd...

later -1

-1 wrote:

CTB wrote:

If you've got practically everything by New Order, you'll know that no other CD release exists which has, for example: Dub Vulture Confusion (Alt mix) TPK (8.49 version) Run II

CTB

ctb, i agree with what you are saying 100% about picking tracks...

but you picked some bad ones.

ok, dub vulture is not on cd..

confusion (alt mix)-> rough mix? http://www.neworderonline.com/Music/Release.aspx?ReleaseID=294

if its the instrumental, thats on cd also.

if it really is some 'new' alternative mix ok....that is new then..

tpk (full version) -> several promos for international had it

run 2 -> found on the laserdisc, and can be easily ripped.

but yes, there are other tracks that you really can't find.. such as MTO that you mistakenly listed as hard to find on cd...

later -1

OK, point made - but it could be argued that a promo copy of International (rather than the commercially available version)or rip from a laserdic don't constitute offical CD releases. Certainly not as widely available as what you can buy off the shelves, anyway.

By the way, something has just occured to me - the whole Run 2/John Dever lawsuit - are NO being sneaky buggers by including Run 2 on the Technique reissue; getting around the legal wrangles assocaited with "Run 2" by re-titling it as as "Run II"? If so, well done!

CTB

CTB wrote:

-1 wrote:

CTB wrote:

If you've got practically everything by New Order, you'll know that no other CD release exists which has, for example: Dub Vulture Confusion (Alt mix) TPK (8.49 version) Run II

CTB

ctb, i agree with what you are saying 100% about picking tracks...

but you picked some bad ones.

ok, dub vulture is not on cd..

confusion (alt mix)-> rough mix? http://www.neworderonline.com/Music/Release.aspx?ReleaseID=294

if its the instrumental, thats on cd also.

if it really is some 'new' alternative mix ok....that is new then..

tpk (full version) -> several promos for international had it

run 2 -> found on the laserdisc, and can be easily ripped.

but yes, there are other tracks that you really can't find.. such as MTO that you mistakenly listed as hard to find on cd...

later -1

OK, point made - but it could be argued that a promo copy of International (rather than the commercially available version)or rip from a laserdic don't constitute offical CD releases. Certainly not as widely available as what you can buy off the shelves, anyway.

By the way, something has just occured to me - the whole Run 2/John Dever lawsuit - are NO being sneaky buggers by including Run 2 on the Technique reissue; getting around the legal wrangles assocaited with "Run 2" by re-titling it as as "Run II"? If so, well done!

CTB

I agree with you on the international promo and laserdisc. Though, at the same time temptation '87 is also said to be on the international promo...so there goes another "exclusive remastered version".

By the way, something has just occured to me - the whole Run 2/John Dever lawsuit - are NO being sneaky buggers by including Run 2 on the Technique reissue; getting around the legal wrangles assocaited with "Run 2" by re-titling it as as "Run II"? If so, well done!

...this myth just runs and runs!

Run/Run 2 (or even Run II) are treated one and the same, both are now partially credited to John Denver when released, that is the only result of the lawsuit. Also (myth #2) the masters for both totally exist and always did, no-one had to destroy anything they just had to add a credit (and therefore pay a percentage of royalties).

Holy shite, never knew that! Well are we sure, for real this time that this IS run 2? I mean everytime it's just been a over compressed version of run on every other release, did anyone compare the times? Same goes with 1963, is it the substance version?

This time it's the real Run 2 (12" version)

-1 wrote: tpk (full version) -> several promos for international had it

Although listed as such in several discographies, I actually bought some of those International promos, and they didn't have the full-length version of TPK on them...

Nick King wrote:

-1 wrote: tpk (full version) -> several promos for international had it

Although listed as such in several discographies, I actually bought some of those International promos, and they didn't have the full-length version of TPK on them...

yeah, i've seen listings on this site, worldinmotion.net, and of course discogs, and the new order discography:

http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/albums/intl.html

a-ha, it lists the time as the 'substance' version, but then the title is wrong:

CD: AU 2002 (Warner WCDB70) [promo] CD: GE 2002 (Warner) [promo] ["Here To Stay"] CDR: FR 2002 (WEA Music) [promo] ["International Best of"] CDR: UK 2002 (London) [promo] 8:01 The Perfect Kiss (original 12" mix)

i never did find the promo, so i always thought it was the full mix...

hmm..

later -1

were these promo's ever found to be real?

i saw 1 copy of them on ebay once, but never again..

http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/albums/vmas.html

Various Maxis and Singles January 2001

6xCDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Qwest) [promo] [Disc 1] Perfect Kiss (extended) Perfect Kiss (dub mix) Perfect Kiss (instrumental) Perfect Kiss (video short version) Sub-culture (remix) Sub-vulture Sub-culture True Faith (extended) True Faith (alternate faith mix) True Faith (remix 7-inch) [Disc 2] Blue Monday Blue Monday (how does it feel mix - 1988) Blue Monday (dub version - 1988) Blue Monday (single remix edit - 1988) Touched by the Hand of God (remix) Touched by the Hand of God (dub version) 1963 1963 (a baker remix) Thieves Like Us Best and Marsh Beach [Disc 3] Round and Round Round and Round (7 inch) Round and Round (stephen hague 12" remix) Round and Round (kevin saunderson club mix) Round and Round (12" ben grosse remix) Fine Time (7 inch edit) Fine Time (lp version) Fine Time (dub of ft) Fine Time (silk mix) Fine Time (messing around mix) Don't Do It State of the Nation [Disc 4] 4:30 World in Motion (single mix) 4:48 World in Motion (b-side) 5:37 World in Motion (no alla violenza mix) 5:08 World in Motion (subbuteo mix) 5:53 World in Motion (carabinieri mix) 5:07 World in Motion (subbuteo dub) 7:03 Bizarre Love Triangle (lp version) 6:41 Bizarre Love Triangle (extended dance mix) 7:03 Bizarre Love Triangle (dub) 3:45 Bizarre Love Triangle (7 inch) 3:38 Bizarre Love Triangle 3:25 Bizarre Love Triangle 5:00 Bizarre Love Triangle (extended edit) [Disc 5] Regret (lp version) Regret (new order mix) Regret (fire island mix) Regret (junior dub) Spooky (radio edit) Spooky (stadium mix) Spooky (magimix) Spooky (out of order mix) Spooky (night tripper mix) Spooky (moulimix) Spooky (new order in heaven mix) Spooky (boo dub mix) [Disc 6] World (radio edit) World (perfecto mix) World (brothers in rhythm mix) World (world in action mix) World (perfecto edit) World (sexy disco club mix) Ruined in a Day (reunited in a day remix) Ruined in a Day (bogle mix) Ruined in a Day (single)

• This 6-disc set consists of released Warner Bros/Qwest 12" mixes and b-sides for a possible "Best Of" (re-)release. The "Best of" never materialized, "20 Years of New Order" was created instead. ================================ http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/albums/rihcdr2k1.html

Reprise In-House CDR-Pack 2001 January/June 2001

CDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Qwest) ["Various 7" Versions"] 4:41 Confusion [1987 dub] 3:43 Evil Dust 3:33 Rocking Carol 3:55 Ode to Joy 5:19 Temptation [7"] 4:08 Confusion [7"] 3:51 The Perfect Kiss [UK 7"] 3:01 Kiss of Death [UK 7"] 4:23 The Perfect Kiss [FBN 7"] 3:59 The Perfect Kiss [video edit] 4:23 Shellshock [7"] 3:55 Thieves Like Us [instrumental edit] 3:40 Bizarre Love Triangle [CA 7"] 3:44 Bizarre Love Triangle [remix edit] 3:34 Dub-Vulture [edit] 4:20 Bizarre Love Triangle [dub edit] 0:31 Blue Monday [Sunkist commercial] 3:24 Sub-Culture [7"] 3:27 State of the Nation [edit] 2:30 Happy One [from Substance video] 4:55 Sub-Culture [BL 7"]

CDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Reprise) ["Various 80's Remixes/Tracks"] Subculture (joseph watt remix) Temptation (original 12" mix) Shellcock Paradise (robert racic remix) Run 2 (Extended) MTO MTO (minus remix) Everything's Gone Green (7") Cries and Whispers

CDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Reprise) ["1995 Remixes"] Confusion (pump panel dub) Confusion (pump panel flotation remix) World in Motion 96 (mark bell remix) Everything's Gone Green (advent mix 1) Everything's Gone Green (advent mix 2) Everything's Gone Green (advent mix 3) Everything's Gone Green (advent mix 4) Ruined in a Day (k-klass 1993 edit) Temptation 98 Salvation Theme Touched by the Hand of God Let's Go (original) Sputnik Skullcrusher Touched by the Hand of God (original 12")

CDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Reprise) ["1995 Remixes"] Temptation (cj bolland remix) True Faith (twa remix) True Faith (paul oakenfold remix) True Faith (sexy disco dub) 1963 '95 (arthur baker extended) Spooky (nightstripper remix) 1963 (joe t. vannelli light remix) 1963 (joe t. vannelli dubby remix) 1963 (lionrock full throttle remix) 1963 (lionrock M6 sunday morning) 1963 (lionrock sparse'n fast mix)

CDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Reprise) ["The Rest Of New Order + Remixes"] Blue Monday (hardfloor remix) Confusion (pump panel reconstruction) Touched by the Hand of God (biff and memphis) Bizarre Love Triangle (armand van helden mix) Age of Content (howie b remix) Blue Monday (jam and spoon remix) 1963 (joe t. vannelli remix) Blue Monday (richie hawtin remix)

CDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Reprise) ["Blue Monday 95"] 6:29 Blue Monday (plutone remix) 5:39 Blue Monday (starwash remix) 8:14 Blue Monday (hardfloor dub) 7:30 Blue Monday (manuela remix) 8:26 Blue Monday (andrea remix) 5:22 Blue Monday (brain remix) 3:47 Blue Monday (plutone edit) 4:13 Blue Monday (hardfloor edit) 7:25 Blue Monday (hawtin love.com mix) [richie hawtin mix] 4:06 True Faith (oakenfold edit) [perfecto radio edit] 7:41 True Faith (tall paul eschreamer dub) 7:44 True Faith (tall paul eschreamer dubbier) [eschreamer mix]

• This 6-disc set was given to a few A&R people at Warner. The tracks are taken from digital and analog sources. There are no unreleased digital versions on this set.
• Released in January and June of 2001.

===================================================

i had a contact that worked for caroline/rhino, or whatever the company was.. and the CD-R for the 7" edits WAS REAL..

later -1

same story with these promos?

I have the first "1995 Remixes" (with the EGG Advent remixes on them), and the others were done (not got them, but know of their existence).

The 7" edits CDR were vinyl-transferred, not digital (again, not got it).

So the press release says Movement has the 7" and 12" mixes of Temptation, but it actually has neither? Great.

let's be blunt about it.

the bonus tracks are a poorly concieved, sequenced, and incomprehensive set of (mostly very available) b-sides

it would've taken only a few hours work to put together a more pleasing and comprehensive package

these reissues are probably fine for people who got into new order from 2001 onwards, but most people who like them liked them a long time before that

these reissues are lacking in any pleasing qualities in terms of tracklist or running order.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

so what's your excuse/apology? [and yes, i'm already working on MY version of it, it just won't be for sale]

later -1

-1 wrote:

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

so what's your excuse/apology? [and yes, i'm already working on MY version of it, it just won't be for sale]

later -1

FFS!! This was always about putting something out that showed that a bit of tender loving fucking care had been shown by the band, and that they cared about their fans. Once again I'll mention Messrs Tennant and Lowe, as the Pet Shop Boys albums were not about releasing their entire back catalogue, but hand picking a few rarities and remixes that tidied things up - imagine Mesh, The Happy One, Shellshock 12", The Perfect Kiss 12", The Perfect Pit, True Dub, Round & Round Detroit mixes, Hacienda flexi etc on Disc 2? I'm sorry, I'm not an intellectual property lawyer, but why would the licensing of these tracks be a problem?

Even Blancmange have recently done a better job on their old albums. That's Blancmange people. Remember them?!!

You couldn't make it up!

Emile Strunz wrote: Even Blancmange have recently done a better job on their old albums. That's Blancmange people. Remember them?!!

You couldn't make it up!

why can't you pick better groups?

i have everything that blancmange has put out, and they're MISSING A TON of mixes, tracks on those cds..

where's the irene and mavis EP? where are the early tracks, and the bbc ones?

what happened to all the mixes of 'dont tell me'? including the US versions.

why isn't the 10min or the 6 minute version of 'lose your love' on there? which is probably their most critical hit..

or these vinyl only tracks?

22339 (extended) Blind Vision (7") Blind Vision (Instrumental Dub Version) Blind Vision (Vocal Edit) Don't tell me (Edit) Don't tell me (Extended Edit) Feel Me (live version) I would Living on the Ceiling (Live) Lose Your Love (7") On Our Way to.. That's Love that it is (ext remix/US 12") Vishnu (7") Waves (7") What's Your Problem (7") What's Your Problem (12")

the blancmange remasters are a joke... and a letdown, just like the pet shop boys were.. (they didn't even put all the versions of west end girls or opportunities on there)..

not quite that complete, is it now?

try again...

and keep up, we already talked about how lame the 'blancmange' remasters were here: http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=43124&PageIndex=2

later -1

I am with you on this.

Also, from Warner's perspective, they are fighting a losing war with CD sales, as with all other record companies. This day and age with younger'uns satisfied with just MP3 quality, there are lesser folks like us who still scout for vinyls and CDs.

So at pt, you've got to ask how dedicated is the record company in re-releasing CD albums. They figure die-hard fans "should" buy re-releases anyway even if they include a bottle of Bernard's fart for every additional $10 purchase. Then there are the once-die hard fans who sold all their collection after getting married and kids. And hopefully attract/lure the younger fans (emo kids?) along the way into the same trap.

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

the bonus tracks are a poorly conceived, sequenced, and incomprehensive set of (mostly very available) b-sides

it would've taken only a few hours work to put together a more pleasing and comprehensive package

these reissues are probably fine for people who got into new order from 2001 onwards, but most people who like them liked them a long time before that

these reissues are lacking in any pleasing qualities in terms of tracklist or running order.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

-1 wrote: why can't you pick better groups?

i have everything that blancmange has put out, and they're MISSING A TON of mixes, tracks on those cds..

Erm, unless you release a 25 CD boxset, those tracks will remain missing, surely?

Isn't it a balance between pre-released tracks and rarities on one CD... Something that New Order have failed to do, but something that Blancmange, The Cure, PSB, Depeche Mode, etc have done?

-1 wrote:

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

Frankly speaking, that's a ridiculous and juvenile criticism. What about movie critics? Are they not allowed to give a bad review of a movie without also coming up with a rewrite of the script and a marketing and distribution plan? Am I not allowed to criticise a badly designed building without coming up with an alternative set of blueprints and getting the required zoning permits, hiring the contractors, etc.?

Or how about this: "I think president Bush is doing a bad job." "Well, then how about you start up your own country and try being president. Can't do it, huh? That's what I thought."

Utterly fucking juvenile!

The fact is that several people here have come up with many valid criticisms of these releases. As to whether the people who put these releases together had good reasons to make the egregious errors on them is besides the point. For all I know, somebody could have put a gun to the compiler's head and forced them to put "State of the Nation" on both Brotherhood (correct) and Low Life (incorrect).

jasonlg2008 wrote:

-1 wrote:

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

Frankly speaking, that's a ridiculous and juvenile criticism. What about movie critics? Are they not allowed to give a bad review of a movie without also coming up with a rewrite of the script and a marketing and distribution plan? Am I not allowed to criticise a badly designed building without coming up with an alternative set of blueprints and getting the required zoning permits, hiring the contractors, etc.?

Or how about this: "I think president Bush is doing a bad job." "Well, then how about you start up your own country and try being president. Can't do it, huh? That's what I thought."

Utterly fucking juvenile!

The fact is that several people here have come up with many valid criticisms of these releases. As to whether the people who put these releases together had good reasons to make the egregious errors on them is besides the point. For all I know, somebody could have put a gun to the compiler's head and forced them to put "State of the Nation" on both Brotherhood (correct) and Low Life (incorrect).

Exactly jasonlg2008!

That's what I was trying to say to our 'London Records N.O. reissues-defender'. About that Blancmange thing: EVERY title-track they made is on their upcoming reissue/remaster of their 3 albums. In fact, Edsel Records did a tremendous job on both Blancmange AND the Thompson Twins-reissues (earlier) this year. I HOPED that London Records (Or Rhino in the States) did this to New Order's. But instead of all this, it is getting worse and worse and worse:

[According to the Rhino & London Records 'promised tracklistings' in August] Here's what's wrong with it:

Double tracks on different CD's, wrong tracklistings, no original Temptation(s), no Shellshock 12", no Round & Round 12" Extended Version, no True Dub but a '90's bouncy dub' (fuck off!) in fact: I am afraid we also get shitty artwork as well. What's next? Will Blue Monday still have the first beats missing AND the volume droppings (which is on EVERY Blue Monday 12" release on CD, ask Re-Member about this) on one channel after 2 minutes plus?!

The other day, I was wondering what would've happened with this project if Rob Gretton had lived?! Or Tony Wilson?! (who was responsible for the whole Substance 1987 project (just look at the New Order Past Present & Future documentary from 1992 from MTV or read some New Order books, especially Claude Flowers' Dreams Never End from december 1994).

I don't care about having mp3. I want the (missing) stuff on CD because I want the BEST possible quality that's available AND I want an actual r.e.c.o.r.d. in my hands (just like the old days). Period. The only thing that London Records and Rhino do is to please the younger "fans" (as someone said earlier). and they don't give a s.h.i.t. about CD's (so who's fooling who?!): in fact , THEY DON'T EVEN BUY THEM REGARDLESS OF THE TRACKS ON IT! THEY DOWNLOAD... AND NO PAYING... THEY USE PEER TO PEER PROGRAMS.

WE are the ones who PAY for the actual music (and the solvability for people who actually work in that business) because we like to buy CD's (and/or vinyl) from our favourite artists. WE are the ones who must be served well by the record company, also we are the ones who waited so long for it to finally happen. And then it didn't happen. What an anticlimax it is ...

So don't get me started mr. Minus One.

-1 wrote:

the blancmange remasters are a joke... and a letdown, just like the pet shop boys were.. (they didn't even put all the versions of west end girls or opportunities on there)..

not quite that complete, is it now?

-1

I don't post much here but this is bollocks. As has been stated, the PSB reissues were not about releasing "all the versions of west end girls" etc - they stated that the remixes on the discs would only be the ones they did themselves, and not those farmed out to other remixers, so that's why they're incomplete. It's all about cohesion, and the "further listening" discs along with the great booklets make them an essential purchase. What the fuck do you want?

The New Order reissues don't work like this, as the selection of tracks is flawed, and obvious stuff has been missed out. Compare and contrast with the upcoming 808 State reissues which have been compiled with consultation from the fans.

Piss poor.

-1

Give me a job at Rhino, and access to the bands mouldy cardboard boxes, and I'll guarantee I could produce something that would be recieved in a far more positive light that this current release.

...and why should be any licensing issues? have you forgotten "THE BAND OWN EVERYTHING, THE LABEL OWN NOTHING."

got the message wrote:

I don't post much here but this is bollocks. As has been stated, the PSB reissues were not about releasing "all the versions of west end girls" etc - they stated that the remixes on the discs would only be the ones they did themselves, and not those farmed out to other remixers, so that's why they're incomplete. It's all about cohesion, and the "further listening" discs along with the great booklets make them an essential purchase. What the fuck do you want?

The New Order reissues don't work like this, as the selection of tracks is flawed, and obvious stuff has been missed out. Compare and contrast with the upcoming 808 State reissues which have been compiled with consultation from the fans.

Piss poor.

i like here on this board, that they give every other group out there a free pass, on messing up their remasters.

so i guess you don't want all the original remixes of opportunities (they still aren't on cd), love comes quickly, or west end girls? the songs that gave them their start? you must not be much of a fan.. i don't care about the books, jingles, or crappy filler... just give me all the original music, the way it was released, all the 7" edits, the 10" edits, the promo mixes, thats what i wanted, and i didn't get it obviously..

don't even get me talking about the 808 state remasters, i could drive a truck through all the tracks they're missing on those remasters.... they cover what, about 30% of their mixes and b-sides? i don't think they were even trying, or were they? ... yeah, there's some cool stuff there, and they tried including a few promo mixes, but once again, it falls completely short...

i'm not sure what 'cohesion' it is that you're talking about, but i don't see a problem with the new order remasters, they cover the major tracks and mixes, and yeah, they messed up some details, and yes some tracks are missing... once again..

the track record

substance - missing tracks, wrong versions, incomplete versions, cd had less tracks than cassette, more than vinyl

best of - missing tracks, wrong versions, different tracks for different countries

rest of - missing mixes, different on vinyl, new mixes instead of originals

international - missing tracks, wrong versions, different bonus for different countries

singles - missing tracks, incomplete versions, wrong listings

since no one was EVER happy with any release that came out before, why did anyone magically think this would be any better?

if they couldn't get it right in the Factory days, or with Gretton, or Wilson, or anyone else, how do think they're going to get it right now..

i don't know what dream world you guys are living in, i'm a realist, and i had completely low expectations for this release, which is probably why i'm not surprised at all..

later -1

I really don't think that Rhino has anything to do with it. Every re-issue that I've ever purchased that has the Rhino name on it has been top notch. I bet that they do the best they can with what they have....

mark reed wrote: -1

Give me a job at Rhino, and access to the bands mouldy cardboard boxes, and I'll guarantee I could produce something that would be recieved in a far more positive light that this current release.

...and why should be any licensing issues? have you forgotten "THE BAND OWN EVERYTHING, THE LABEL OWN NOTHING."

hey, i'd like nothing better than to join you there... i've actually had a contact there a long time ago, from a person..

he was a huge fan of new order stuff, and we traded tracks, and talked about all the cool promos and stuff that was not available..

the biggest problem was finding other people that worked there, that cared... it always came down to marketing, and money, and there was never enough to do it right, because the fan following for 'new order' wasn't enough..

it was like pulling teeth just to get some of the other compilations released here in the US.

the UK (+european) fans are not the problem, they support the group.

its the US fans (north american) that don't seem to care, and stopped caring a long time ago..

later -1

Luke wrote:

jasonlg2008 wrote:

-1 wrote:

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

Frankly speaking, that's a ridiculous and juvenile criticism. What about movie critics? Are they not allowed to give a bad review of a movie without also coming up with a rewrite of the script and a marketing and distribution plan? Am I not allowed to criticise a badly designed building without coming up with an alternative set of blueprints and getting the required zoning permits, hiring the contractors, etc.?

Or how about this: "I think president Bush is doing a bad job." "Well, then how about you start up your own country and try being president. Can't do it, huh? That's what I thought."

Utterly fucking juvenile!

The fact is that several people here have come up with many valid criticisms of these releases. As to whether the people who put these releases together had good reasons to make the egregious errors on them is besides the point. For all I know, somebody could have put a gun to the compiler's head and forced them to put "State of the Nation" on both Brotherhood (correct) and Low Life (incorrect).

Exactly jasonlg2008!

That's what I was trying to say to our 'London Records N.O. reissues-defender'. About that Blancmange thing: EVERY title-track they made is on their upcoming reissue/remaster of their 3 albums. In fact, Edsel Records did a tremendous job on both Blancmange AND the Thompson Twins-reissues (earlier) this year. I HOPED that London Records (Or Rhino in the States) did this to New Order's. But instead of all this, it is getting worse and worse and worse:

[According to the Rhino & London Records 'promised tracklistings' in August] Here's what's wrong with it:

Double tracks on different CD's, wrong tracklistings, no real Temptation(s), no Shellshock 12", no Round & Round 12" Extended Version, no True Dub but a '90's bouncy dub' (fuck off!) in fact: I am afraid we also get shitty artwork as well. What's next? Will Blue Monday still have the first beats missing AND the volume droppings (which is on EVERY Blue Monday 12" release on CD, ask Re-Member about this) on one channel after 2 minutes plus?!

The other day, I was wondering what would've happened with this project if Rob Gretton had lived?! Or Tony Wilson?! (who was responsible for the whole Substance 1987 project (just look at the New Order Past Present & Future documentary from 1992 from MTV or read some New Order books, especially Claude Flowers' Dreams Never End from december 1994).

I don't care about having mp3. I want the (missing) stuff on CD because I want the BEST possible quality that's available AND I want an actual r.e.c.o.r.d. in my hands (just like the old days). Period. The only thing that London Records and Rhino do is to please the younger "fans" (as someone said earlier). and they don't give a s.h.i.t. about CD's (so who's fooling who?!): in fact , THEY DON'T EVEN BUY THEM REGARDLESS OF THE TRACKS ON IT! THEY DOWNLOAD... AND NO PAYING... THEY USE PEER TO PEER PROGRAMS.

WE are the ones who PAY for the actual music (and the solvability for people who actually work in that business) because we like to buy CD's (and/or vinyl) from our favourite artists. WE are the ones who must be served well by the record company, also we are the ones who waited so long for it to finally happen. And then it didn't happen. What an anticlimax it is ...

So don't get me started mr. Minus One.

I'm a younger fan and I BUY what New Order stuff I can find. I felt this may have been worthwhile a few posts ago, but this is preposterous. Think about it, recycle had 20 something odd cd's. What things are we missing? What would be more then "novelty value"? I want a good studio mix of temptation, that doesnt blow out my speakers I.E. singles. Now, in the past there was some redeeming issues for me, I.E. the full thieves like us on international, but now they just tack on the instrumental on the PCL bonus disc? I don't have the time or means to collect every odd single and single variation out there. Now I know this is a whiny post, but this simply could have been done way better.

Brian Barker wrote: I really don't think that Rhino has anything to do with it. Every re-issue that I've ever purchased that has the Rhino name on it has been top notch. I bet that they do the best they can with what they have....

i'd hate to hear what you thought about 'retro' (the 4 disc version), and for fun the 5 disc version..

later -1

jasonlg2008 wrote:

-1 wrote:

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

Frankly speaking, that's a ridiculous and juvenile criticism. What about movie critics? Are they not allowed to give a bad review of a movie without also coming up with a rewrite of the script and a marketing and distribution plan?

No, but I'm guessing most movie critics have seen the movie before they reviewed it.

At the end of the day, It's a BONUS DISC, in the sense that this material is being suppied as a bonus to the remastered albums. In a round-about way, the bonus discs comprise what is essentially a remastered, updated-to-1990 version of Substance across 5 discs. How is this bad, exactly?

FFS, they don't owe us anything, which is what a lot of you folks seem to suggest they do. If you don't want it, don't buy it!

CTB

jasonlg2008 wrote:

Frankly speaking, that's a ridiculous and juvenile criticism.

see, the problem with your analogy, is that in this case, it is actually valid..

we can do it ourselves..

we(people on this board) actually have access to all the tracks that people are complaining about..

we do have promos, unreleased material, demos, live tracks, and everything else that people are complaining about...

there have been fan projects that did just this, one of them that i worked on, international 2, came out in 2003, and had all the single versions compiled on a 4cd set..... the majority were in CD quality, and for the vinyl/flexi/cassette tracks, we remastered them using professional software.... and it WAS ALL DONE FOR FREE..

there was never a charge, and there was free Artwork, notes, etc to.......

so don't tell me that i'm invalid in saying, 'why don't you do it yourself', because that's exactly what some of us are doing ...

i've already got 3/4cd versions of these remasters planned out for myself, and anyone else that is interested, that will include ALL THE MISSING MIXES/B-SIDES, and also include new live tracks / demos / rarities, and other bonus tracks....

you're welcome to join in, but i think as the case is here,

its a lot easier to complain about something, than it is to take intiative, and do it yourself..

caveat emptor..

later -1

-1 wrote: just give me all the original music, the way it was released, all the 7" edits, the 10" edits, the promo mixes, thats what i wanted, and i didn't get it obviously..

God, even I'd be bored of constant radio edits...

-1 wrote: don't even get me talking about the 808 state remasters, i could drive a truck through all the tracks they're missing on those remasters.... they cover what, about 30% of their mixes and b-sides? i don't think they were even trying, or were they? ... yeah, there's some cool stuff there, and they tried including a few promo mixes, but once again, it falls completely short...

No it doesn't - the demos you constantly seek are available to download, an exhaustive amount of remixes would send (even myself, who owns EVERYTHING they've ever released) to sleep, and there are samples that exist on other mixes that can't be released due to legal reasons...

You don't appear to realise that a CD of constant 7" edits wouldn't appeal to anyone but a small minority... And most record companies in their right mind wouldn't release a 25 CD boxset to cater for that minority...

Besides which, it would be excruciating listening...

All I was asking (and 99% of the people in the post), is a couple of rarities, a couple of rare remixes, and some of the more popular mixes out there - possibly interspersed with the odd live version...

If they should so wish to then make the rest available to download, then so be it...

Luke wrote:

About that Blancmange thing: EVERY title-track they made is on their upcoming reissue/remaster of their 3 albums.

where is the 10 minute remix of 'lose your love'?

i don't see it?

(and forget about the 6 minute edit of it, that would be asking too much)..

choose your words/examples a little better, and i might actually listen to what you are saying..

if you don't pay attention to those kinds of details, why do think new order/factory/rhino will either?

later -1

Nick King wrote:

No it doesn't - the demos you constantly seek are available to download, an exhaustive amount of remixes would send (even myself, who owns EVERYTHING they've ever released) to sleep, and there are samples that exist on other mixes that can't be released due to legal reasons...

hey i'm glad to see at least 1 mix of 'freak/insane lover', but what about the other 2..

i have their promo's, i have their fanclub cd's, i have the extra disc from the DVD, and i have a lot of promo cd's ('moses' with exclusive edit)..

but i wouldn't think everyone has access to those..

and NO, i haven't seen those for download either..

once again, you're giving 808 state a free pass, and i know you're really interested in defending them, as you're mentioned on their board...

why don't you hold them up to the standards everyone else seems to be holding up 'new order' too?

Nick King wrote:

You don't appear to realise that a CD of constant 7" edits wouldn't appeal to anyone but a small minority... And most record companies in their right mind wouldn't release a 25 CD boxset to cater for that minority...

tell that to depeche mode fans (6 box sets), simple minds fans (5 box sets) big country fans (4 box sets) duran duran (2 box sets) cabaret voltaire (2 box sets) tears for fear fans , abc, alphaville, a-ha, u2, and ever other group out there that has AT LEAST TRIED TO RELEASE COMPREHENSIVE BOX SETS of their tracks..

and don't tell me they don't have as large as discography, or as many tracks, or have bigger fanbases, some of them don't...

later -1

-1 wrote: hey i'm glad to see at least 1 mix of 'freak/insane lover', but what about the other 2..

To be available via Digital Download...

-1 wrote:

jasonlg2008 wrote:

Frankly speaking, that's a ridiculous and juvenile criticism.

so don't tell me that i'm invalid in saying, 'why don't you do it yourself', because that's exactly what some of us are doing ...

Yes, it is ridiculous and juvenile because when you said "why don't you do it yourself", you basically challenged the person you were replying to to lay out the details and execute a full-scale commercial release with "licensing" and "marketing". So don't try to now claim that you meant something different.

And, yes, thank you, we are all well aware that we can rip tracks from vinyl, use a CD-R burner to create compilations, and print out inserts from a home printer to create our own versions of New Order releases. I do stuff like that all the time. But that is besides the point, which is criticism of the officially released product, which you've failed to address and for whatever reason you keep avoiding.

Frankly, I don't have a lot of patience left so don't expect further participation from me if the discussion doesn't move on from here. There are other threads if you have such a desire to discuss fan-made compilations.

Emile Strunz wrote:

-1 wrote:

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

so what's your excuse/apology? [and yes, i'm already working on MY version of it, it just won't be for sale]

later -1

FFS!! This was always about putting something out that showed that a bit of tender loving fucking care had been shown by the band, and that they cared about their fans. Once again I'll mention Messrs Tennant and Lowe, as the Pet Shop Boys albums were not about releasing their entire back catalogue, but hand picking a few rarities and remixes that tidied things up - imagine Mesh, The Happy One, Shellshock 12", The Perfect Kiss 12", The Perfect Pit, True Dub, Round & Round Detroit mixes, Hacienda flexi etc on Disc 2? I'm sorry, I'm not an intellectual property lawyer, but why would the licensing of these tracks be a problem?

Even Blancmange have recently done a better job on their old albums. That's Blancmange people. Remember them?!!

You couldn't make it up!

To me, this is about the fundamental relationship between the band and the fans.

Can I ask all the apologists out there if (hand on heart) they are satisfied with the errors, the omissions, and the inconsistencies on these remasters. 808 State's recent approach was great with Graham Massey consulting with the fans and, like the PSBs, releasing something of value.

None of this is about licensing, marketing, time or cost, as there's nothing to be licensed, a robust package would have marketed itself, and the time and cost would have been exactly the same.

No, this is about incompetence, or worse, not giving a shit.

And that people, is a crying, fucking shame.

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

the bonus tracks are a poorly concieved, sequenced, and incomprehensive set of (mostly very available) b-sides

it would've taken only a few hours work to put together a more pleasing and comprehensive package

these reissues are probably fine for people who got into new order from 2001 onwards, but most people who like them liked them a long time before that

these reissues are lacking in any pleasing qualities in terms of tracklist or running order.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

There's alot of stuff being said here that I disagree with, but I'll use this post that I summarily agree with as a jumping off point. Especially the last point about tidying things up. One of the things that's unique about their catalog is the number of singles not included on the "proper" albums of the Factory period (and by this I mean the 5 albums being reissued and not Substance). And of those singles that are on an album, off the top of my head, I think only the Fine Time 12" A-side corresponds with it's album version on Technique. So there's a good 19 essential singles (the 12 Substance A-sides + Procession, Murder, TBTHOG, BM88, R&R, Run2 & WIM) plus 9 non remix B-sides (IALP, Mesh, Cries and Whispers, Hurt, Lonesome Tonight, 1963, Don't do it, Best & Marsh, and MTO) that need to be tacked on somewhere to the 5 albums in order to complete what I would call the bare minimum of requirements for a definitive NO collection. And other than the exclusion of the full 12" mix of Shellshock--which still baffles me as personally I love the parts of that song missing from the John Robie remix--they certainly got everything covered. I might also contend that Thieves like Us instrumental and Shame of the Nation are sufficiently different enough from the A-side versions as to warrant "essential" status, but that's just my opinion.

But, here's where I think the not giving "a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography" comes into play. I've not checked track times (and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong -1), but I think you could fit the 19 singles (plus Fine Time as it would just be wrong to exclude it from a singles collection) as well as the 9 B-sides onto an expanded "Substance 1989 or 2008" or somesuch 2cd compilation and release that along with single disc remastered versions of all the albums at a reasonable price and I'd have no problem with that as a fairly definitive collection of the Factory years for New Order. It would be like the Stones' reissues that include Hot Rocks or the Beatles' Past Masters compilations (which favor separate singles collections as opposed to tacking them onto the roughly corresponding albums). In fact (to comment on the issue of the commercial viability of this reissue series), I bet that an expanded Substance would outsell all of the individual albums combined (at least here in America).

Instead, though, what we get is a tracklisting which while expanding in terms of total number of tracks and minutes of music available from what I've listed above, does nothing to help recap or (in Mark's words) "tidy up" New Order's immense catalog and legacy. And while I welcome some of these tracks availability on CD, I can't as a whole get too excited about the overall project as the bonus discs (while containing songs that certainly supplement their corresponding albums) do nothing for me as far as presenting each album and/or that period for the band in a new light. And again this is just my opinion obviously, but that's what all (and I mean 100%) of the "Collector's Edition" or "Deluxe Edition" CD reissues have done or at least tried to accomplish. I can't speak to some of the Cure, PSB or other bands that've been mentioned here, but reissued 2CD premium priced sets that I own by Sonic Youth, Pavement, Joy Division, Fleetwood Mac, The Who, Beck, T. Rex, The Kinks and others have all included previously unreleased material which has not only justified the price but in many cases made me appreciate the original album more but barring that have at least given me an insight into the creative process behind whatever album it was. Likewise, I've also bought single disc remasters by the Kinks, Echo & the Bmen, Talking Heads, Lynyrd Skynyrd and others which have collected the albums plus accompanying singles and B-sides which I'm equally satisfied with.

So I guess what really gets me so boiled about this reissue plan is 2 things:

1. London/WB is charging premium "Deluxe" or "Collectors" edition prices for collections which don't meet the criteria (in my opinion) established by a number of other reissues by countless other bands by issuing needless 2CD sets that don't maximize the 2CD format capacity (and believe me this is the lesser of my complaints as money is not really a factor in my decision to buy or not buy these sets), but more importantly...

2. The band and or record company is again neglecting the opportunity to give the band I love more than any other a proper career retrospective and all the accompanying critical accolades that I think they deserve. And this most certainly is their final chance in the record/CD/physical product era. And hopefully the proposed website and accompanying releases will come to fruition, but only the true diehards like myself and others here will bother to connect the dots for the complete picture instead of maybe having the band, management, or record co. doing a little bit of work to present a meaningful summation of one of the great bodies of work in pop/rock history.

As always, just my opinion....

And just so you know, as far as the reissues' tracklisting goes, I've got and have converted to digital files everything (7"s,12"s,promo 7"s, Canadian gatefold 7"s,CDVs,Laserdiscs,Videos,Compilations,X-mas Flexis,Record Mirror 7"s,Australian12"s, etc.) that was officially released from the Factory years that's currently unavailable on CD. As well as thousands of hours of live material that I've personally "remastered" from cassettes and LPs as well as other stuff that I've downloaded off the interweb, so this post is not born of some personal quest for any particular track that I've not been able to track down or afford from Ebay. It really is just about the quality of the reissue series and the legacy of the band that I'd like to see perpetuated.

Suzuki wrote: I think only the Fine Time 12" A-side corresponds with it's album version on Technique.

Please listen carefully Fine Time(FAC223 12" A side). It's not same Technique version. a little bit different!

I'd have reissued Substance and still done the two-disc versions of the Factory albums, with none of the Substance tracks included on the bonus discs bar one or two essentials. I too think that Substance would outsell the albums.

Fac 328 wrote: I'd have reissued Substance and still done the two-disc versions of the Factory albums, with none of the Substance tracks included on the bonus discs bar one or two essentials. I too think that Substance would outsell the albums.

I reckon that's why they haven't done it - spread the non-album stuff as widely as possible, to extract the maximum spend.

And, what with the stuff they haven't included, they've still left themselves room for a future box set aimed at collectors.

-1 wrote:

Luke wrote:

About that Blancmange thing: EVERY title-track they made is is on their upcoming reissue/remaster of their 3 albums.

where is the 10 minute remix of 'lose your love'?

i don't see it?

(and forget about the 6 minute edit of it, that would be asking too much)..

choose your words/examples a little better, and i might actually listen to what you are saying..

if you don't pay attention to those kinds of details, why do think new order/factory/rhino will either?

later -1

Well, Mr. Minus One,

To catch up with the Blancmange topic: I meant EVERY SONG TITLE TRACK they made for London Records is on the upcoming remasters. I'm from the Netherlands, so I can make misspells too.

And THAT'S my main complain regarding to reissues: at least take care on the fact to include all song titles, that doesn't have to be all remixes of those songs for me (although it would be nice ofcourse, but in many examples it's just too much, so you can do a singles box which include all remixes or so).

Later Luke

Mojo.

The whole thing is truly sad and disappointing. Why do they continue to try and milk a dollar out of their loyal fans. If they want my money they will have to re-record new versions or new material. I truly hope they continue without Hooky or perhaps he will come to his senses.

Fac 328 wrote: Mojo.

There you go - that's the answer... :)

Fac 328 wrote: Mojo.

Well, I guess me and the band'll have to agree to disagree then. :)

That wasn't so hard.

It's still a shame that the band couldn't be bothered to sequence the extra disc to make them worthwhile listening experiences in their own right.

I've already created iPod playlists of 'bonus discs'. For example, mine look like this. I've tried to create comprehensive lists on the basis of what we know is out there that also makes sense to listen to in order. I've not included the instrumental Joy Division soundchecks that we know exist or a couple of the 'bootleg only' covers of When I'm With You / Anarchy In The UK, etc.

My other idea was to make the bonus disc a DVD with a live show from the time, i.e. 1981 - Celebration, Factory Shorts, etc, 1985 - Tokyo, 1986 - Academy, 1989 - US Tour from Glasgow DVD, 1993 - Montreux and package these bonus tracks as audio MP3's on them..

This list took me 25 minutes to write.

Movement : Ceremony - Original Version Dreams Never End - Demo Homage - Demo Truth - Demo Ceremony - Demo Haystack Everythings Gone Green - 12" Procession Cries And Whispers Mesh Dreams Never End - Peel Truth - Peel Senses - Peel ICB - Peel Temptation (a mix of the 7" + 12" stuck together) Hurt In A Lonely Place - Original

PCL: Blue Monday Confusion (1983 12") Thieves Like Us Lonesome Tonight Murder Turn The Heater On - Peel Too Late - Peel We All Stand - Peel 586 - Peel Thieves Like Us - Instrumental The Beach Rockin' Carol Ode To Joy Video 586 (I've included TLU/LT because they recorded the same sessions as Confusion)

Lowlife: Salvation* The Perfect Kiss (amalgam of 12" mix and Instrumental) Subculture - Sarm West/Record Mirror Mix Touched By The Hand Of God* Let's Go - vocal demo Confusion - Instrumental Sunrise - Instrumental Let's Go - instrumental* Skullcrusher* Sputnik* The Perfect Kiss - Video version Elegia - Full Version

(there's some debate when these were recorded in my mind, I believe that since LG was demo'd in 85, and was recorded the same time as the rest of the Salvation Soundtrack, the band sat on them for 2 years before release, I've bumped Confusion Instrumental onto this due to time)

Brotherhood: Temptation - 1987 Confusion - 1987 True Faith 1963 Subculture - John Robie Version Shellshock - Full 12" Version State Of The Nation Bizarre Love Triangle - 12" Evil Dust Shame Of The Nation Theme A La MGM (everything between the end of Low Life and the start of Technique, including Substance)

Technique: Round & Round - New Order 12" Version Fine Time - Silk Mix Run2 - Extended Mix Touched By The Hand Of God - 7" Remix Blue Monday - 1988 12" World In Motion Vanishing Point - Making Out Mix Confusion - 1990 Remix Don't Do It Best & March MTO The Happy One The B Side World In Motion - LFO Mix Sister Ray - live

(*everything released between the end of the Substance set and the start of the Republic era is my criteria with the odd unreleased song. I've not used the much circulated Technique demos.)

For Republic it is

Regret - New Order Mix Ruined In A Day - Reunited Mix World - Brothers In Rhythm Mix Spooky - Nightripper Mix True Faith - TWA Mix 1963 - 95 Let's Go - 95 Blue Monday - 95 Temptation - 98 True Faith - Peel Touched By The Hand Of God - Peel Isolation - Peel Paradise - Peel Atmosphere - Peel Vicious Circle - New Order Mix Ruined In A Day - Ambient Mix

(I'm only including the '95 versions as some if not all of them have different vocals and instrumentation added in the 94-95 time period. I've not used the multitude of odd remixes from the Rest Of due to disc space.)

Overall, I'm missing some dubs due to time restrictions.

You could all just not buy these new releases which is what I intend doing.I have all the songs already,and who needs endless versions of songs and mixes of the songs,they have been at this remixing re-releasing nonsense since Blue Monday '88...For example,isn't Bizarre Dub Triangle the Shep Pettibone remix of the Shep Pettibone remix of the original? Surely that's a remix too far..I'm surprised they havent started releasing dance remixes of Joy Division tracks,surely it's only a matter of time...

Fuck me, some people have too much time on their hands. I will sum this state of affairs up very simply:

THIS IS ALL A LOAD OF STALE RANCID SPUNK AND I AM BORED SHITLESS WITH THIS POXY POP GROUP AND THEIR INCREASINGLY TAWDRY "LEGACY".

I thank you.

Cranelane,

They already have. "Trouser Enthusiasts Remix" of LWTUA is floating around somewhere.

PETER COATES'S BELATED REDEMPTION wrote: Fuck me, some people have too much time on their hands. I will sum this state of affairs up very simply:

THIS IS ALL A LOAD OF STALE RANCID SPUNK AND I AM BORED SHITLESS WITH THIS POX POP GROUP AND THEIR INCREASINGLY TAWDRY "LEGACY".

I thank you.

I AGREE

PETER COATES'S BELATED REDEMPTION wrote: Fuck me, some people have too much time on their hands. I will sum this state of affairs up very simply:

THIS IS ALL A LOAD OF STALE RANCID SPUNK AND I AM BORED SHITLESS WITH THIS POX POP GROUP AND THEIR INCREASINGLY TAWDRY "LEGACY".

I thank you.

Happily reported to Mods

I thank you

Solitude wrote:

PETER COATES'S BELATED REDEMPTION wrote: Fuck me, some people have too much time on their hands. I will sum this state of affairs up very simply:

THIS IS ALL A LOAD OF STALE RANCID SPUNK AND I AM BORED SHITLESS WITH THIS POX POP GROUP AND THEIR INCREASINGLY TAWDRY "LEGACY".

I thank you.

Happily reported to Mods

I thank you

That TOLD you FRadders........

I've just been fucking about in my music room, and stumbled across Cabaret Voltaire's Conform to Deform 3 CD Box Set - one disc of rarities, one disc of rare remixes and a live gig - AND, comprehensive sleeve notes with a nice quote from a certain Bernard Sumner amongst others (AH Wilson, Ralf Hutter, et al)

I fucking love the Cabs, but they never got near the success enjoyed by New Order, and yet they've got the ability to release something this good.

Should have gone to Virgin back in 1993 instead of London fucking Records

mark reed wrote:

My other idea was to make the bonus disc a DVD

I thought about that too. R.E.M., another Warners' band, did it with their 2003 re-releases...

Emile Strunz wrote:

Should have gone to Virgin back in 1993 instead of London fucking Records

They'd be on EMI now, the same kind of corporate wankers!

Fac 328 wrote: Mojo.

I feel quite sorry for the band members if they have been conned into thinking the bonus material consists of what was "left off" the albums at the time.

"Dub-vulture" was originally going to be on "Low-life" but it was removed at the last minute?"Beach Buggy" - a "Brotherhood" outtake?"World In Motion (carabinieri mix)" - giving a more in-depth view of Technique???

It would have been a perfectly reasonable statement had tracks like "The Happy One" been included, but this is just laughable.

mark reed wrote:

Brotherhood: Temptation - 1987 Confusion - 1987 True Faith 1963 Subculture - John Robie Version Shellshock - Full 12" Version State Of The Nation Bizarre Love Triangle - 12" Evil Dust Shame Of The Nation Theme A La MGM (everything between the end of Low Life and the start of Technique, including Substance)

Add Confusion Dub 1987 (from FACD193)

Solitude wrote:

PETER COATES'S BELATED REDEMPTION wrote: Fuck me, some people have too much time on their hands. I will sum this state of affairs up very simply:

THIS IS ALL A LOAD OF STALE RANCID SPUNK AND I AM BORED SHITLESS WITH THIS POX POP GROUP AND THEIR INCREASINGLY TAWDRY "LEGACY".

I thank you.

Happily reported to Mods

I thank you

What the fuck??

Oooh, I forgot about that : only about the 16th remix of "Confusion" that's been out.. and "I Don't Care" / "Bizarre Dub Triangle"

Emile Strunz wrote: Cabaret Voltaire's Conform to Deform 3 CD Box Set - one disc of rarities, one disc of rare remixes and a live gig - AND, comprehensive sleeve notes with a nice quote from a certain Bernard Sumner amongst others (AH Wilson, Ralf Hutter, et al)

emile,

you must have a pretty low level of 'tolerance' for what you think is good...

that cabaret voltaire box that you think so greatly of, was missing a ton of mixes, edits, and only had same average live tracks, plus some so-so new remixes of older tracks for filler....i can think of about 20-30 vinyl only tracks they conveniently forgot..

PLEASE STOP looking to other groups for examples of what you consider to be 'good', when in fact they were just poor to average compilations that scratched the surface..

once again leaving the fans with another poor collection...and trying to buy several compilations of 'mixes' to fill in the gaps, and still not being complete..

later -1

-1 wrote: PLEASE STOP looking to other groups for examples of what you consider to be 'good', when in fact they were just poor to average compilations that scratched the surface..

So, can you actually provide an example of a band (any band?) that has a box set similar to the one you're salivating for???

Monsieur Round & Round wrote:

mark reed wrote:

My other idea was to make the bonus disc a DVD

I thought about that too. R.E.M., another Warners' band, did it with their 2003 re-releases...

If you actually mean the 2005 re-releases: the DVDs include the remastered albums in Dolby 5.1 and DTS (although one of them doesn't have a DTS track - why?), which is good, but no bonus tracks and only little other bonus material (e.g.: the video of Losing my Religion).

But this would have been an interesting option for the NO remasters:

• All 5 remastered albums packaged as a CD + a bonus DVD containing a 5.1 mix of the album (and, possibly, a few rare or unreleased tracks)
• An expanded, remastered Substance double or triple CD or single DVD containing all original 12" mixes and B-sides

Anyway, this is not going to happen.

My major concern is whether or not we'll get actual remastered versions and not, as was the case with Retro and Singles, pseudo-remasters obtained by filtering and compressing original CD versions.

Just listen to True Faith: the original Substance CD version has got two mastering errors (we hear "I'd sTee de light" at 1'12 et "My morning sTun is the drug" at 2'18). The same flaws can be heard in any subsequent releases of the song (Retro, Singles) although they were said to be remastered! On the contrary, True Faith 94, which is actually a remastered (and slightly remixed) version, doesn't have these flaws.

Unfortunately the original 12" version of True Faith will not be included in the remasters, so we won't be able to use it as a benchmark.

Ben wrote:

Unfortunately the original 12" version of True Faith will not be included in the remasters, so we won't be able to use it as a benchmark.

has anyone converted the DAT of substance to CD yet? do you think it had those issues also?

later -1

-1 wrote:

Emile Strunz wrote: Cabaret Voltaire's Conform to Deform 3 CD Box Set - one disc of rarities, one disc of rare remixes and a live gig - AND, comprehensive sleeve notes with a nice quote from a certain Bernard Sumner amongst others (AH Wilson, Ralf Hutter, et al)

emile,

you must have a pretty low level of 'tolerance' for what you think is good...

that cabaret voltaire box that you think so greatly of, was missing a ton of mixes, edits, and only had same average live tracks, plus some so-so new remixes of older tracks for filler....i can think of about 20-30 vinyl only tracks they conveniently forgot..

PLEASE STOP looking to other groups for examples of what you consider to be 'good', when in fact they were just poor to average compilations that scratched the surface..

once again leaving the fans with another poor collection...and trying to buy several compilations of 'mixes' to fill in the gaps, and still not being complete..

later -1

I'll judge what I think is good, thanks very much. Which is usually based on what I see and hear. The Cabs box, whilst not perfect, had enough curios and enough on there which demonstrated that it was quite unique. (OK, it should have contained more from Code, and that gig didn't capture them at their best, but overall, the package showed that time and effort had been put into it.

Feels like I'm going around in fucking circles here, but once more, the point with referencing these other box sets is that these bands are/were New Order's peers, and they have managed to put something out that looked like thought and care had been put into it, and they didn't contain errors and inconsistencies. This is not about compiling all the mixes - it's about the tracks from certain eras and recording sessions that matter, and packaging them well.

Retro was bollocks and should have been more like Conform to Deform, and this lot of releases also look bollocks.

If anything, I can let friends and family know that they're there, so I don't get some completely pointless Christmas present.

The New Order Remasters - only slightly better than socks or soap on a rope.

Emile Strunz wrote: The Cabs box, whilst not perfect, had enough curios and enough on there which demonstrated that it was quite unique. (OK, it should have contained more from Code, and that gig didn't capture them at their best, but overall, the package showed that time and effort had been put into it.

so, it's ok that the CABS box is not perfect, you should have seen all the complaints on the cabaret voltaire mailing list...

it was a quick/dirty job, that cashed on quickly throwing something together...if that's what you mean by 'unique'..

...but once more, the point with referencing these other box sets is that these bands are/were New Order's peers, and they have managed to put something out that looked like thought and care had been put into it, and they didn't contain errors and inconsistencies. This is not about compiling all the mixes - it's about the tracks from certain eras and recording sessions that matter, and packaging them well.

Cardboard boxset with a 32 pages booklet: each CD comes in a cardboard sleeve and has an individual catalogue number, CVBOX 1.1 to 1.3. Spelling mistakes on box and booklet (Hynotised in lieu of Hypnotised). Track 2.05 is mislabeled "Vocal Mix" while is actually "Strange Mix".

you call that consistent, and without errors?

i have the promos for it, and they have the same mistakes also, and the remix compilations that came out afterwords had errors on them also..

Retro was bollocks and should have been more like Conform to Deform, and this lot of releases also look bollocks.

ok, so you want a boxset/compilation with live tracks that don't showcase the band, is missing mixes from a critical era, and has errors in the tracklistings..

sounds like 'retro' should have been perfect for you..

you don't seem to get it either..

NOBODY HAS PUT OUT A COMPILATION OR BOXSET THAT IS PERFECT/GOOD ENOUGH ....

so STOP EXPECTING NEW ORDER too also....and then you can move on with your life..

later -1

This thread is becoming a little confusing. People are criticising the reissues for including previously released stuff (which they already own) or not including rare stuff, which some people claim they do own and can then make their own CD quality copies.

If these reissues are to be an enhanced version of the original albums, then this has been accomplished.

Nick King wrote:

So, can you actually provide an example of a band (any band?) that has a box set similar to the one you're salivating for???

nick,

i can't, because they don't exist.

EVERY compilation, boxset, and best of, etc, that i've ever bought has mistakes, errors, printing errors, sound flaws, wrong dates, incorrect times, versions, poor printing quality, subpar liner notes, and incomplete tracklistings..

i have a few thousand cd's, and collect a lot of bands (can you tell?), and NOT ONE GROUP has EVER been able to put out something that is complete, finished, or comprehensive..

not even the digital compilations on itunes for U2 or depeche mode, which, even though they include a lot, still are lacking...

i've ALWAYS ended up making my own complete compilations with everything that a group puts out -> compilations, promo's, live tracks, b-sides, mixes, (sometimes dj mixes, if they are official).... and that works for me..

later -1

*ADDED LATER* i looked back at this, and yes it is a pretty harsh statement about the music industry, it's all about money, it's never about the fans, and its always about how to milk people for more..

unfortunate....

if you, Nick, wanted a more practical answer, all i can give you is a percentage... and for me there is only 1 boxset that has come closest to perfection...

it's the promo boxset by kraftwerk, called : 12345678

excellent attributes

incredible job of remastering 8 albums used original artwork for albums renamed 'electric cafe' -> 'techno pop' very minimal, its just the album tracks

very bad points:

never got commercially released (only 500 copies) cost a crazy amount of money the average/interested fan will probably never hear it its only in english (i would have preferred german)

and even with those issues, most of which aren't the bands fault...it's still near perfection for me.

why? because that was the whole point of the band, it was just about the albums, and the tracks, thats it. and that's all you get.....

unfair? yes, i guess thats what happens when it's my favorite band...... but really, it does match their aesthetic, mentality, and minimalist viewpoint that has defined them from day 1...

could they have stuffed mixes/unreleased tracks/extras? no, because that would have gone against the point of the package, and has never been a focus for them.. could they have put alternate language versions? no, because they would released different language versions in different countries..

everytime i try to criticize the package, i can't find a mistake in it..so i gave up, and accepted it..

Of course we in U.S. have to wait for mouths for the State version to come out.:(

If these reissues are to be an enhanced version of the original albums, then this has been accomplished.

Yep, and that's all they were intended to do.

Now if everyone complaining about them could focus a little on what they WOULD like to see in the future perhaps you could spell it out on here. So far I'm getting a really confused and varied picture of what actually would be appreciated in the way of archive releases.

it's the promo boxset by kraftwerk, called : 12345678

Can't say I completely agree, they have messed about with the artwork of the albums in an attempt to re-write their history (is 'Electric Cafe' really now the same as the aborted 'Techno Pop'?), I am surprised they didn't also erase Wolfgang and Karl from the sleeves of the other albums.

It's also the second attempt to release remastered reworked albums as back in '97 there was briefly on the schedules a double disc of Man Machine with the German versions and other tracks on disc 2. Like this box set it never came out.

johnny james wrote:

it's the promo boxset by kraftwerk, called : 12345678

Can't say I completely agree, they have messed about with the artwork of the albums in an attempt to re-write their history (is 'Electric Cafe' really now the same as the aborted 'Techno Pop'?), I am surprised they didn't also erase Wolfgang and Karl from the sleeves of the other albums.

actually they did (sort of) , on the 'tour de france soundtracks'..(if you compare it to the original 'tour de france' single releases)... but if you are 'strict' person, then it IS the same as the official releases

revisionist history.... what can you do?

i guess i could print a minature reproduction of the 'original' cover, and use that instead..

but like i said, that's pretty minor, compared to the music..

it always comes down to music in the end, even if they put it in generic unmarked brown cardboard sleeves, (or just plain unmarked white paper, which most promos come in) i wouldn't be happy, but at least i would still get it for the tracks..

this is an amazing package considering its a promo, and like i said, it blows away a ton of 'official' releases from plenty of other groups in its attention to detail, execution, and sound quality..

later -1

Ah yes, the Kraftwerk boxset - am extremely tempted by that (it's currently at around 300 quid from a second-hand shop ) - if I didn't have to save a bit for the Krakow trip (3 x Kraftwerk gigs in 3 days), I might have just gone for it! :)

I guess that I would be happy with either a future boxset (unlikely), or everything released digitally (it's money for old rope, and if they sell it via their own website over the thieving bastards known as iTunes, then they'd make a lot more money out of it for basically bugger all overlay)...

With the 808 reissues, apart from the sample-ridden tracks that haven't been cleared, that's the current proposal - release everything else digitally...

Has anyone actually heard these yet? What's the sound quality like?

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah

Who cares? Its all free if you know where and when to look.

                             axxo

Nick King wrote:

Solitude wrote:

PETER COATES'S BELATED REDEMPTION wrote: Fuck me, some people have too much time on their hands. I will sum this state of affairs up very simply:

THIS IS ALL A LOAD OF STALE RANCID SPUNK AND I AM BORED SHITLESS WITH THIS POX POP GROUP AND THEIR INCREASINGLY TAWDRY "LEGACY".

I thank you.

Happily reported to Mods

I thank you

What the fuck??

Have look here

Ask a grown up if you still don't get it

Solitude wrote: Have look here

Ask a grown up if you still don't get it

Nick King wrote: Ah yes, the Kraftwerk boxset - am extremely tempted by that (it's currently at around 300 quid from a second-hand shop ) - if I didn't have to save a bit for the Krakow trip (3 x Kraftwerk gigs in 3 days), I might have just gone for it! :)

I have heard the Kraftwerk promo boxset of CDs and was not impressed. It has been reported that Kraftwerk themselves did not like the mastering quality (too hot) and canned the full release. I prefer the original Kraftwerk CDs or even better original vinyl. Always admired Kraftwerk's restraint in releasing stuff. Despite a near 40 year career their available catalogue is nicely streamlined. They really should rerelease "Ralf und Florian" though!

A pity New Order don't exercise similar quality control on their own releases - "Singles" is probably one of the all time worst mastering jobs in history. With this track record I don't hold out much hope for the remasters sound quality. As for the bonus Cds it's just lowest common denominater stuff. I'm sure London's strategy is to make these Remasters appeal to the average man in the street - "oh the bonus has Blue Monday on it I've heard of that better buy it". London are probably correct in thinking they will sell more Cds this way (rather than putting out a disc of obscure rarities only sort by dedicated fans). Can't say I blame London in some ways - New Order surely haven't brought in the sales they expected when they signed them back in 1993.

Adam Tate wrote:

Nick King wrote: Ah yes, the Kraftwerk boxset - am extremely tempted by that (it's currently at around 300 quid from a second-hand shop ) - if I didn't have to save a bit for the Krakow trip (3 x Kraftwerk gigs in 3 days), I might have just gone for it! :)

I have heard the Kraftwerk promo boxset of CDs and was not impressed. It has been reported that Kraftwerk themselves did not like the mastering quality (too hot) and canned the full release. I prefer the original Kraftwerk CDs or even better original vinyl. Always admired Kraftwerk's restraint in releasing stuff. Despite a near 40 year career their available catalogue is nicely streamlined. They really should rerelease "Ralf und Florian" though!

A pity New Order don't exercise similar quality control on their own releases - "Singles" is probably one of the all time worst mastering jobs in history. With this track record I don't hold out much hope for the remasters sound quality. As for the bonus Cds it's just lowest common denominater stuff. I'm sure London's strategy is to make these Remasters appeal to the average man in the street - "oh the bonus has Blue Monday on it I've heard of that better buy it". London are probably correct in thinking they will sell more Cds this way (rather than putting out a disc of obscure rarities only sort by dedicated fans). Can't say I blame London in some ways - New Order surely haven't brought in the sales they expected when they signed them back in 1993.

I'm sure you've probably hit the nail on the head there... And, yup, your average punter will delight at having Blue Monday/Temptation on the bonus CD's...

Ah well! :)

Adam Tate wrote:

I have heard the Kraftwerk promo boxset of CDs and was not impressed. It has been reported that Kraftwerk themselves did not like the mastering quality (too hot) and canned the full release. I prefer the original Kraftwerk CDs or even better original vinyl. Always admired Kraftwerk's restraint in releasing stuff. Despite a near 40 year career their available catalogue is nicely streamlined. They really should rerelease "Ralf und Florian" though!

show me EXACTLY 1 reference to where it was reported. and then you might have some credibility....

yeah, fine, YOUR preference for the old, hissy, subpar originals is ok.... i'll take the new digital versions any day...you say you've 'heard' these versions, do you own them? have you listened to them many times? i have, on different sound systems, with headphones, on professional speakers etc... there is NO distortion, no clipping, no flattened maxed out levels...

and yes i have those, computerworld was the very first cd i ever bought, months before i even had a cd-player, when cd's first came out....

i have all the original vinlys in german/english, and all the cds in german/english also.. so i know what those sound like also...

do you think a group like Kraftwerk would let a product out if it didn't have their stamp of approval on it? (even endless remixes of expo2000, and aerodynamik)...

NO WAY..... they were completely involved in it, just like they are with the new 2cd best of, i haven't compared those versions to the originals yet, but some of those tracks are probably remastered also..

there were other roadblocks in the release of the remasters, sound quality was not one of them.... in fact they were planning to release all of them in SACD format.... like they did with maximum minimum...

i think you still proved my point about how great the kraftwerk boxset is, by the attention and detail, and quality of it... whether you prefer a less detailed, subpar version to listen to doesn't detract from that.

later -1

-1 wrote:

Adam Tate wrote:

I have heard the Kraftwerk promo boxset of CDs and was not impressed. It has been reported that Kraftwerk themselves did not like the mastering quality (too hot) and canned the full release. I prefer the original Kraftwerk CDs or even better original vinyl. Always admired Kraftwerk's restraint in releasing stuff. Despite a near 40 year career their available catalogue is nicely streamlined. They really should rerelease "Ralf und Florian" though!

show me EXACTLY 1 reference to where it was reported. and then you might have some credibility....

yeah, fine, YOUR preference for the old, hissy, subpar originals is ok.... i'll take the new digital versions any day...you say you've 'heard' these versions, do you own them? have you listened to them many times? i have, on different sound systems, with headphones, on professional speakers etc... there is NO distortion, no clipping, no flattened maxed out levels...

and yes i have those, computerworld was the very first cd i ever bought, months before i even had a cd-player, when cd's first came out....

i have all the original vinlys in german/english, and all the cds in german/english also.. so i know what those sound like also...

do you think a group like Kraftwerk would let a product out if it didn't have their stamp of approval on it? (even endless remixes of expo2000, and aerodynamik)...

NO WAY..... they were completely involved in it, just like they are with the new 2cd best of, i haven't compared those versions to the originals yet, but some of those tracks are probably remastered also..

there were other roadblocks in the release of the remasters, sound quality was not one of them.... in fact they were planning to release all of them in SACD format.... like they did with maximum minimum...

i think you still proved my point about how great the kraftwerk boxset is, by the attention and detail, and quality of it... whether you prefer a less detailed, subpar version to listen to doesn't detract from that.

later -1

I am not going to try to prove that the reason Kraftwerk stopped the release was down to sound quality. After all who really knows what thought processes go on within the shadowy confines of the Kling Klang studio.

I have owned the original vinyl of all Kraftwerk albums since the 1970s. I then bought the CDs on release in the early 80s. I have listened at length to a borrowed copy of the box on an audiophile standard HiFi through speakers and Sennheiser HD650 headphones. I wanted to try out this expensive box out before making a purchase I regretted. Frankly I didn't think it was improvement at all - louder yes - but squashed dynamics I'm afraid. The original vinyl destroys the box and the 80s CDs in my opinion.

I don't want to knock your opinion -1 you obviously enjoy the box. Different folks like different aspects of sound quality. I am very much of the Steve Hoffman school of mastering taste.

Adam Tate wrote: I am not going to try to prove that the reason Kraftwerk stopped the release was down to sound quality. After all who really knows what thought processes go on within the shadowy confines of the Kling Klang studio.

I have owned the original vinyl of all Kraftwerk albums since the 1970s. I then bought the CDs on release in the early 80s. I have listened at length to a borrowed copy of the box on an audiophile standard HiFi through speakers and Sennheiser HD650 headphones. I wanted to try out this expensive box out before making a purchase I regretted. Frankly I didn't think it was improvement at all - louder yes - but squashed dynamics I'm afraid. The original vinyl destroys the box and the 80s CDs in my opinion.

I don't want to knock your opinion -1 you obviously enjoy the box. Different folks like different aspects of sound quality. I am very much of the Steve Hoffman school of mastering taste.

i agree, we'll never know why they weren't released, but when you claim it's due to sound quality, thats why i questioned it...especially, since WE DO know that kraftwerk are fanatics when it comes to releases, and sound quality..

what do you think about 'heavy vinyl' remasters? i've seen a lot of them for kraftwerk albums, but don't have them yet. don't you think those would be better than 30 year old vinyl pressings? ...

.... also, my vinyl versions weren't pristine... do you know if the japanese/german versions are better than the poor US/american pressings?

lastly, i don't have an awesome turntable anymore, i had a friend that had good needles, and denon brand, but i never digitized my vinyl using it...

that's why i don't think the older versions hold up...

thanks for replying..

back to new order................ and on a related note, is there any talk of new vinyl remasters for any new order albums?

later -1

-1 wrote:

Emile Strunz wrote: The Cabs box, whilst not perfect, had enough curios and enough on there which demonstrated that it was quite unique. (OK, it should have contained more from Code, and that gig didn't capture them at their best, but overall, the package showed that time and effort had been put into it.

so, it's ok that the CABS box is not perfect, you should have seen all the complaints on the cabaret voltaire mailing list...

it was a quick/dirty job, that cashed on quickly throwing something together...if that's what you mean by 'unique'..

...but once more, the point with referencing these other box sets is that these bands are/were New Order's peers, and they have managed to put something out that looked like thought and care had been put into it, and they didn't contain errors and inconsistencies. This is not about compiling all the mixes - it's about the tracks from certain eras and recording sessions that matter, and packaging them well.

Cardboard boxset with a 32 pages booklet: each CD comes in a cardboard sleeve and has an individual catalogue number, CVBOX 1.1 to 1.3. Spelling mistakes on box and booklet (Hynotised in lieu of Hypnotised). Track 2.05 is mislabeled "Vocal Mix" while is actually "Strange Mix".

you call that consistent, and without errors?

i have the promos for it, and they have the same mistakes also, and the remix compilations that came out afterwords had errors on them also..

Retro was bollocks and should have been more like Conform to Deform, and this lot of releases also look bollocks.

ok, so you want a boxset/compilation with live tracks that don't showcase the band, is missing mixes from a critical era, and has errors in the tracklistings..

sounds like 'retro' should have been perfect for you..

you don't seem to get it either..

NOBODY HAS PUT OUT A COMPILATION OR BOXSET THAT IS PERFECT/GOOD ENOUGH ....

so STOP EXPECTING NEW ORDER too also....and then you can move on with your life..

later -1

Let's agree to disagree then, although it's all about the effort put into a particular project. The Cabs felt (for me anyway) that a bit of thought had been put into the package. New Order's doesn't. That's my opinion.

And do you ever get out mate?

Nick King wrote:

Solitude wrote: Have look here

Ask a grown up if you still don't get it

Ah yes, the 'community standards'. The last refuge of the intellectually vacuous and emotionally brain-dead. This is what passes as maturity round here. Hallelujah.

-1 wrote:

what do you think about 'heavy vinyl' remasters? i've seen a lot of them for kraftwerk albums, but don't have them yet. don't you think those would be better than 30 year old vinyl pressings? ...

.... also, my vinyl versions weren't pristine... do you know if the japanese/german versions are better than the poor US/american pressings?

lastly, i don't have an awesome turntable anymore, i had a friend that had good needles, and denon brand, but i never digitized my vinyl using it...

that's why i don't think the older versions hold up...

thanks for replying..

back to new order................ and on a related note, is there any talk of new vinyl remasters for any new order albums?

later -1

I haven't listened to very many different Kraftwerk vinyl versions but I still have my original UK vinyl which sounds superb. Same with Joy Division my 1979 UK Factory UP absolutely slays any available CD. Don't know about New Order vinyl reissues but again the original vinyl is fine.

One of these days I going to have to transfer all my vinyl to needledrop CDs. It's a shame when you have to resort to needledrops - the record companies need to take note. Mind you happens with the best of them - just look at the shambles that are the official Beatles CDs - been listening to needledrops of these for years.

Adam Tate wrote: It's a shame when you have to resort to needledrops - the record companies need to take note. Mind you happens with the best of them - just look at the shambles that are the official Beatles CDs - been listening to needledrops of these for years.

Roll on 2009.

Ben wrote:

Monsieur Round & Round wrote:

mark reed wrote:

My other idea was to make the bonus disc a DVD

I thought about that too. R.E.M., another Warners' band, did it with their 2003 re-releases...

If you actually mean the 2005 re-releases: the DVDs include the remastered albums in Dolby 5.1 and DTS (although one of them doesn't have a DTS track - why?), which is good, but no bonus tracks and only little other bonus material (e.g.: the video of Losing my Religion).

But this would have been an interesting option for the NO remasters:

• All 5 remastered albums packaged as a CD + a bonus DVD containing a 5.1 mix of the album (and, possibly, a few rare or unreleased tracks)
• An expanded, remastered Substance double or triple CD or single DVD containing all original 12" mixes and B-sides

Anyway, this is not going to happen.

My major concern is whether or not we'll get actual remastered versions and not, as was the case with Retro and Singles, pseudo-remasters obtained by filtering and compressing original CD versions.

Just listen to True Faith: the original Substance CD version has got two mastering errors (we hear "I'd sTee de light" at 1'12 et "My morning sTun is the drug" at 2'18). The same flaws can be heard in any subsequent releases of the song (Retro, Singles) although they were said to be remastered! On the contrary, True Faith 94, which is actually a remastered (and slightly remixed) version, doesn't have these flaws.

Unfortunately the original 12" version of True Faith will not be included in the remasters, so we won't be able to use it as a benchmark.

Yes, I meant the 2005 re-releases, my mistake. The "In time" compilation was released in 2003, hence my confusion. I know there's no chance of such a release for the New Order remasters, but my point is... seeing as there's no hidden gems, no previously unreleased tracks to unearth, wouldn't it be better to have a bonus DVD (and I mean bonus, ie FREE!!!!!!!!) featuring some live clips, TV appearances or the odd gig (I'm thinking PFD would make a great second disc in the Low-Life package...)? But I'm just a miserable bastard, what do I fucking know?

Well, I just spent time writing a nice, thoughtful post only to have it disappear into the ether as soon as I hit 'preview'. The webmaster should really sort that out - supremely frustrating.

I'm fairly happy with these reissues. I'll be buying them as I no longer have these albums - all stolen.

2 points:

-Why have the 1987 version of Temptation on Movement?? That's just plain daffy to me, I don't get it. I actually suspect it's an error or something.

-Why have the Tall Paul remix of True Faith on Brotherhood and call it True Dub? Not only does it not make any sense, but it's straight-up false advertising! Again, that is so far in the loony end I actually suspect it's an error or mis-reporting of some kind. Makes NO sense.

Most of the people here seem to be perpetual whiner miseryguts who would complain about anything. Some of the posts here are unintentionally hilarious, like an actor doing a pisstake of a trainspotter. Just unbelievable!

Edit: deep breath taken

FtotheDoubleOff wrote:

-Why have the 1987 version of Temptation on Movement?? That's just plain daffy to me, I don't get it. I actually suspect it's an error or something.

I did not know that this as re-recorded for Substance until about a year after I bought it. It doesn't sound out of place, but chronologically, if you know about it, like most NO fans, it is.

But i'm not that worried about it. Just like the people complaining about the one missing drum beat from Blue Monday... I can sleep at night without it.

Besides, there a plenty of beats in BM anyway

FtotheDoubleOff wrote: Well, I just spent time writing a nice, thoughtful post only to have it disappear into the ether as soon as I hit 'preview'. The webmaster should really sort that out - supremely frustrating.

it happened to me too, if you take your time, or are writing a long post, i think there's a time limit?

anyways, if you're writing something long

1 do it in a text file first, and paste it into the reply box

2 make a copy of your reply, before you hit submit

i have yet to lose a post ever again, when i'm careful..

later -1

is this re-issue for real? seems a lot of re-issuing etc....does it get a uk release?

-1 wrote:

Brian Barker wrote: I really don't think that Rhino has anything to do with it. Every re-issue that I've ever purchased that has the Rhino name on it has been top notch. I bet that they do the best they can with what they have....

i'd hate to hear what you thought about 'retro' (the 4 disc version), and for fun the 5 disc version..

later -1

Since you asked nicely, to my ears, Retro sounds great. Again, a case of Rhino doing the best it can with what it has. Do I think it's the best box set ever? No. But when I look at what Rhino has done remaster wise I sing praises to them. They can't be blamed for releasing what they are given to release!

I just noticed that these are due out on my birthday, September 29. Nice!

Am I the only one to regret that the extended version of Love Vigilantes (hidden track on Retro disc 5) isn't included in the bonus disc of low Life?

Knuckles wrote:

FtotheDoubleOff wrote:

-Why have the 1987 version of Temptation on Movement?? That's just plain daffy to me, I don't get it. I actually suspect it's an error or something.

I did not know that this as re-recorded for Substance until about a year after I bought it. It doesn't sound out of place, but chronologically, if you know about it, like most NO fans, it is.

But i'm not that worried about it. Just like the people complaining about the one missing drum beat from Blue Monday... I can sleep at night without it.

Besides, there a plenty of beats in BM anyway

Ofcourse there are plenty of beats in BM, but that's also the case for the other songs. The main complaint about BM is that there is a serious volume dropping on one channel in ALL of the CD releases since Substance 1987 and I'm afraid this time will be no different.

Love vigilantes (ext) bonus on retro disc 5 ?

Is that a joke ?

NO need to release new material. The threads on here have well dried up and we need new debates (which new music would provide).

a running one.

or is it.....

-1 wrote:

Nick King wrote:

So, can you actually provide an example of a band (any band?) that has a box set similar to the one you're salivating for???

if you, Nick, wanted a more practical answer, all i can give you is a percentage... and for me there is only 1 boxset that has come closest to perfection...

it's the promo boxset by kraftwerk, called : 12345678

so you complain over countless pages that these releases aren't good enough & no box set is good enough becuase they never have all the mixes & your one example of a perfect box set is one that is the albums only. nothing extra?

how does that work?

hibster wrote: so you complain over countless pages that these releases aren't good enough & no box set is good enough becuase they never have all the mixes & your one example of a perfect box set is one that is the albums only. nothing extra?

how does that work?

Ben wrote: Am I the only one to regret that the extended version of Love Vigilantes (hidden track on Retro disc 5) isn't included in the bonus disc of low Life?

What in hell are you referring to????

Does anyone know if they plan to reissue Republic,Get Ready and WFTSC?

Thanks:)

Ger Boy wrote: Does anyone know if they plan to reissue Republic,Get Ready and WFTSC?

Thanks:)

They will do Republic and Get Ready, so i've heard, since they probably want to push out their london records crap again.

Luke wrote:

Knuckles wrote:

FtotheDoubleOff wrote:

-Why have the 1987 version of Temptation on Movement?? That's just plain daffy to me, I don't get it. I actually suspect it's an error or something.

I did not know that this as re-recorded for Substance until about a year after I bought it. It doesn't sound out of place, but chronologically, if you know about it, like most NO fans, it is.

But i'm not that worried about it. Just like the people complaining about the one missing drum beat from Blue Monday... I can sleep at night without it.

Besides, there a plenty of beats in BM anyway

Ofcourse there are plenty of beats in BM, but that's also the case for the other songs. The main complaint about BM is that there is a serious volume dropping on one channel in ALL of the CD releases since Substance 1987 and I'm afraid this time will be no different.

I think the 24 Hour Party People soundtrack actually had a remastered version of BM without the missing beat or drop out. I'm currently at work, so won't be able to check till later.

I also remember there being a 12" mix of She's Lost Control that was the same as the one on Substance, but it didn't fade out at the end. It was different than the one on Heart and Soul and had the synth medoly that kicks in earlier.

hibster wrote:

so you complain over countless pages that these releases aren't good enough & no box set is good enough becuase they never have all the mixes & your one example of a perfect box set is one that is the albums only. nothing extra?

how does that work?

easy.

if you knew anything about kraftwerk, you wouldn't be asking

they were never about the mixes.. so that's why its just album tracks...

their whole existence is based on minimalism, hence nothing unnecessary, and nothing extra..

that's exactly why the boxset is nearly perfect, and why i would give it a 99%... yeah if they had managed to actually release something with all the other stuff, then i would be more critical..(maybe)..

IT WAS ONLY A PROMO........

new orders mixes, (or cabaret voltaire, the cure, blancmange, the thompson twins), or any other group mentioned, has had a substantial portion of their library tied to 12", 7", promo's, b-sides, etc.. and that's why since they are not EVER being presented completely, is where my initial criticism came from...

name a single essential krafwerk 12",

there isn't except for 'tour de france', and they've already reworked it, and put it on the last disc 'tour de france soundtrack'..

that's why they don't need to bundle all that extra stuff with it, and that's why their boxset works...[this applies to other bands, that have limited catalogs too... i only mentioned kraftwerk because they're my favorite band]...

later -1

Re-Member wrote:

I think the 24 Hour Party People soundtrack actually had a remastered version of BM without the missing beat or drop out. I'm currently at work, so won't be able to check till later.

I also remember there being a 12" mix of She's Lost Control that was the same as the one on Substance, but it didn't fade out at the end. It was different than the one on Heart and Soul and had the synth medoly that kicks in earlier.

Yup, just listened to the 24 Hour Party People soundtrack and it's fully remastered with the beginning beat intact and no drop out.

However, the 12" of SLC is the same version from Substance that fades out, only for some reason it sounds slightly different due to the remastering.

Re-Member wrote:

Re-Member wrote:

I think the 24 Hour Party People soundtrack actually had a remastered version of BM without the missing beat or drop out. I'm currently at work, so won't be able to check till later.

I also remember there being a 12" mix of She's Lost Control that was the same as the one on Substance, but it didn't fade out at the end. It was different than the one on Heart and Soul and had the synth medoly that kicks in earlier.

Yup, just listened to the 24 Hour Party People soundtrack and it's fully remastered with the beginning beat intact and no drop out.

However, the 12" of SLC is the same version from Substance that fades out, only for some reason it sounds slightly different due to the remastering.

Only on the box set Heart & Soul you get the complete 12" version of She's Lost Control. It's about half a minute longer and has a pretty 'cold' ending which I think is cool for the song.

-1 wrote:

hibster wrote:

so you complain over countless pages that these releases aren't good enough & no box set is good enough becuase they never have all the mixes & your one example of a perfect box set is one that is the albums only. nothing extra?

how does that work?

easy.

if you knew anything about kraftwerk, you wouldn't be asking

i should have stopped reading here.

now, without resorting to making it personal, which you seem very keen to do every time someone asks you anything & witout assuming anything about me, let me repeat the question, rephrased slightly to help you to see the point i am making.

in your choice of the one perfect boxset, the kfraftwerk one, it does not contain every track released, yet every example anyone else has given has been criticised by you for exactly that reason. ie not containing every track ever released.

surely you can see the contradiction here?

& anyway - kraftwerk not about remixes? err right, so tour de france soundtracks & the mix are what exactly?

hibster wrote:

in your choice of the one perfect boxset, the kfraftwerk one, it does not contain every track released, yet every example anyone else has given has been criticised by you for exactly that reason. ie not containing every track ever released.

surely you can see the contradiction here?

not really,

you did not address my point about naming a critical 12" by them, if it was critical, they 'MIGHT' have decided to include it on the promo, but since they don't have any (again, i mentioned 'tour de france', but it WAS included)...

there is no contradiction, EVERY other band mentioned previously here by people, had CRITICAL 12" singles released : ie : Blue Monday for new order, etc..

i could have picked boxsets by :

the eagles the police steely dan/donald fagen fleetwood mac genesis rolling stones beatles etc...

and the same criteria would have applied... (and yes, i own a lot of those also)...

they don't need a ton of mixes (if they have any), rare tracks/b-sides, or whatever, because they don't need too..

the albums REPRESENT THEIR CANONICAL OUTPUT, and is more than sufficient for their fans...

& anyway - kraftwerk not about remixes? err right, so tour de france soundtracks & the mix are what exactly?

ok, i'll try answering it again, being a little more specific....YOU seem to be ignoring my point, as i tried to explain, that kraftwerk IS NOT, i repeat, NOT about mixes....thats why, for them, just putting album tracks represents the purest canonical form of representing their output...which goes with the kraftwerk aesthetic, (much like the early Factory releases for 'new order')..

'the mix', was their answer to a 'live' album release, and contains 'reworks' of original songs, and is NOT included in the PROMO boxset, because it is NOT part of their absolute 'canon' of songs... sorry for the essay, but i think i need to post this also to explain..from wikipedia.............

The Mix is a 1991 album by Kraftwerk. It featured newly arranged, re-recorded versions of a selection of songs which had originally appeared on the albums Autobahn through Electric Café. Hütter stated in interviews that he regarded The Mix as a type of live album, as it captured the results of the band's continual digital improvisations in their Kling Klang studio. When, subsequent to the album's release, Kraftwerk made their return to performing live in concert, many songs featured on their set list were heavily rearranged in a similar fashion to what appears on the album.

Stated reasons from the group explaining the release include: The group didn't want to release a traditional "Greatest Hits" or "Best of" collection.

At the time, the band were in the process of reconfiguring their Kling Klang studio from analog to digital recording technology; integrating MIDI into their setup and creating sound archives from their original master tapes that were stored onto computers. This proved to be an ongoing task, as new upgrades and equipment were continually made available in the years following the album project.

Despite no new, original recorded material or live tours outside of Europe, Ralf Hütter didn't want Kraftwerk to appear defunct to the public.

as far as 'tour de france soundtracks' goes, it IS CANON, because it contains NEW material...yes, it has a few versions of 'tour de france' on it, but its no different than the following....

Kometenmelodie 1 -> Kometenmelodie 2, Trans-Europe Express -> metal on metal, computer world -> computer world 2, Boing Boom Tschak -> musique non stop, Tour de France Étape 1 –> Tour de France Étape 2 –> Tour de France Étape 3

so i don't see your point about it being 'about mixes'....

Finally,

ever hear about 'new order' saying 'substance' represents them live? and did you notice, ITS NOT BEING REMASTERED EITHER?????????

is 'mixed up' represented in an boxset by 'the cure'? is 'the greatest mixes' represented by the 'thompson twins', is 'never stop' considered an album to 'echo and the bunnymen' fans? are any of the cabaret voltaire 'remix' compilations considered in their boxset?

no, not a single group has EVER recognized their remix albums as being anything definitive, or representative of their work, even 'new order', who thrives on remixes..

so why should 'kraftwerk' recognize it either?

at this point, i really can't say anything more without again becoming too redundant...

thanks for your civil replies...

i hope i made my angle clear (and of course, i don't hesitate to admit my bias towards kraftwerk as being my favorite)..

later -1

maybe i should post this in a separate thread, ok, i will....

is there 1 person here (besides me)?...

who would buy all the 'new order' remasters, if they ONLY included the album..

with no bonus disc at all, and of course, were priced in the 'bargain price' range..

ie: much less than a standard album?

i'll make a poll..

later -1

I think (like Depeche Mode did), the remasters will appear in both single (album) disc versions and Collectors Editions.

It could be that the single discs will appear a few weeks later or so.

Anyway, as a single disc or as a Collectors Edition: I don't need them. :)

I would buy them even if there wasn't any bonus cd as long as the remastering is ok

-1 wrote: maybe i should post this in a separate thread, ok, i will....

is there 1 person here (besides me)...

who would buy all the 'new order' remasters, if they ONLY included the album..

with no bonus disc at all, and of course, were priced in the 'bargain price' range..

ie: much less than a standard album?

i'll make a poll..

later -1

yep. even if it wasnt in the bargain price range. as long as the remastering was done properly.

twp wrote: I would buy them even if there wasn't any bonus cd as long as the remastering is ok

+1. They really need to be remastered.

i've been trying to get the promo's since they first appeared, but have been outbid each time..

i guess i wanted to know ahead of time, what they were like..

maybe somebody on this board has them, and will comment..

other than that, it's a waiting game..

later -1

*deep breath*

Yes, "Mixed Up" is represented in the Cure's box sets : it is in "Join The Dots", and is scheduled to be in the remastered/expanded versions of the 1989-96 albums due to be released 2009.

As for KW 12"s not being essential, I regard the re-recorded 12" of "The Telephone Call" as an essential part of their discography and I have to resort to a needledrop MP3 of it.

mark reed wrote: *deep breath*

Yes, "Mixed Up" is represented in the Cure's box sets : it is in "Join The Dots", and is scheduled to be in the remastered/expanded versions of the 1989-96 albums due to be released 2009.

whoah...i have 'join the dots', how is it represented there? the following mixes are on it:

Track listing "Lullaby" (Extended Mix) – 7:43 "Close to Me" (Closer Mix) – 5:44 "Fascination Street" (Extended Mix) – 8:47 "The Walk" (Everything Mix) – 5:27 "Lovesong" (Extended Mix) – 6:19 "A Forest" (Tree Mix) – 6:55 "Pictures of You" (Extended Dub Mix) – 6:41 "Hot Hot Hot!!!" (Extended Mix) – 7:01 "Why Can't I Be You?" (Extended Remix) – 8:07 (on LP and cassette only) "The Caterpillar" (Flicker Mix) – 5:40 "In Between Days" (Shiver Mix) – 6:22 "Never Enough" (Big Mix) – 6:07

where are they on the box set?????????

please don't talk about future events until they actually happen..

also, what else are they going to add/do to it? include all the b-sides/extra mixes, and remaster it again? it already sounded great..

As for KW 12"s not being essential, I regard the re-recorded 12" of "The Telephone Call" as an essential part of their discography and I have to resort to a needledrop MP3 of it.

yes, you might, but i would argue the German 12" of 'computerwelt' extended, is a piece of musical history, whereas anything later was not... and since they released some of the 'tour de france' 12" mixes on cd-single, there was no need to include any of those either..

to each their own..

later -1

-1 wrote: i've been trying to get the promo's since they first appeared, but have been outbid each time..

i guess i wanted to know ahead of time, what they were like..

maybe somebody on this board has them, and will comment..

other than that, it's a waiting game..

later -1

-1 wrote: whoah...i have 'join the dots', how is it represented there?

Disc 2, Track #18

"Just Like Heaven" [Dizzy Mix] B-Side of "Close to Me" [Closest Mix]

Re-Member wrote:

-1 wrote: whoah...i have 'join the dots', how is it represented there?

Disc 2, Track #18

"Just Like Heaven" [Dizzy Mix] B-Side of "Close to Me" [Closest Mix]

yeah, i know that.

no, try again..

how does picking a b-side remix to a single represent an entire 'remix' album?

does that mean that they thought the original mixes weren't good enough?

that's really stretching it..

as far as the cure goes, those 'new' remixes did nothing for them, compared to the originals..

once again, pick a group that 'acknowledges' all their remixes on any of their boxsets.... guess what, there aren't any..

not

abc a-ha big country blancmange duran duran depeche mode frankie goes to hollywood heaven 17 human league level 42 ministry simple minds tears for fears ultravox

yeah some of them try to, but they always have missing tracks, missing promo mixes, and other missing versions..

i could keep going, but you still wouldn't be able to find any..

later -1

Join The Dots ONLY contains b-sides.

Therefore, if it contains a b-side from that album, it represents that album.

A few examples of box sets done right..

Cocteau Twins - Singles Box 10 CD set - Every single and EP released up to that point, with disc 10 containing unreleased tracks. Box set was released again under the title "Lullabies to Violaine", but broken down to 4 CDs and missing a few mixes.

Galaxie 500 - Galaxie 500 Box 4 CD set - All three albums remastered with non-album singles and b-sides added. Included a forth disc of EP tracks and unreleased songs.

Young Marble Giants - Colossal Youth & Collected Works 3 CD set - Original album remastered on disc one. Every non-album single, b-side and EP track with additional demos on disc 2, then Peel sessions on disc 3.

mark reed wrote: Join The Dots ONLY contains b-sides.

Therefore, if it contains a b-side from that album, it represents that album.

WRONG... it contains b-sides

AND, rarities, and unreleased tracks.....

the following are not b-sides

"Lament" [Flexipop] (Smith) – 4:36 (Came on a vinyl record included on an issue of Flexipop, 1982)

"Icing Sugar" [Remix] (Gallup/Smith/Thompson/Tolhurst/Williams) – 3:23 (Extra track on Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me Orange Vinyl Bonus Disc, 1987)

How Beautiful You Are..." [Remix] (Gallup/Smith/Thompson/Tolhurst/Williams) – 4:25 (Extra track on Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me Radio sampler CD, 1987)

"Hello I Love You" [Psychedelic Version] (Densmore/Krieger/Manzarek/Morrison) – 6:04 (Previously unreleased, but recorded in 1990)

"Doing the Unstuck" [Saunders 12" Remix] (Bamonte/Gallup/Smith/Thompson/Williams) – 5:55 (Previously unreleased remix made in 1992, intended for a "Doing the Unstuck" single that never came to be, 1992)

"Purple Haze" (Virgin Radio Version) (Hendrix) – 3:18 (Originally unreleased 12" version, 1993)

"Burn" (Bamonte/Gallup/Smith/Williams) – 6:37 (Originally from The Crow official soundtrack, 1994)

"Young Americans" (Bowie) – 6:23 (Originally from 104.9 XFM compilation, a cover of a song by David Bowie 1995)

etc.. the 4th disc is mostly non b-sides..

======================================================== with your logic, putting new order b-sides on the remasters should represent that album???????????

no, not quite to me..

later -1

Re-Member wrote: A few examples of box sets done right..

Cocteau Twins - Singles Box

Galaxie 500 - Galaxie 500 Box

Young Marble Giants - Colossal Youth & Collected Works

although the cocteau twins were somewhat prolific.... they still dont have that much material... so it's easy to compile their stuff (and you even admitted they missed a few tracks)..

yeah, i could pick bands with a few albums and mixes:

power station boxset arcadia boxset erasure [only 1986-1992] on 4 boxsets

and say that they did a great job, because it wasn't that hard to put everything they had in one place..

my point is to find a band that is prolific, that cares enough to put as much out as possible..

only two groups have tried, and although they weren't succesfull they tried, and they cheated since they only released them on itunes..

of course it was depeche mode, and u2 with their ultimate collections....

what would 'new order' fans be willing to pay for getting every possible mix / promo / b-side in a non-lossy format? all at one time..

i see another poll coming on..

later -1

Pity New Order don't have a Mark Lewisohn/Chris Heath figure to oversee things in a more thorough way. Or do they?

They have us, but they don't really care to check so it seems.

OK, program minimum: release remastered albums. Without bonuses, etc. that only enrage than appease fans.

I would buy such RE-mastered albums, if re-mastering (i.e. doing each instrument track by track) really took place, not just cleaning en masse via filters and EQs. That's the only raison d'etre of these reissues in the first place, right?

How was re-mastering of SLC done on 24 Hour Part People? To me the perfect example of re-mastering is the new mixes of on recent Beach Boys' compilations, done 40 years later: no distortion of concept, but they sound fresh, crisp, with proper basses. Now you think of Beatles, their 1987 CD editions are just painfully flat. When you get older and have more time, what else to do with your creative past?

-1 wrote: i've been trying to get the promo's since they first appeared, but have been outbid each time..

i guess i wanted to know ahead of time, what they were like..

maybe somebody on this board has them, and will comment..

other than that, it's a waiting game..

later -1

i will get the promos on mon/tues,will post my findings once they arrive.

You forgot the 0.13 version of "Hello I Love You" and "To The Sky".

...if we're getting nitpicky. I'm sure there are other tracks as well on there.

mark reed wrote: You forgot the 0.13 version of "Hello I Love You" and "To The Sky".

...if we're getting nitpicky. I'm sure there are other tracks as well on there.

i am getting nitpicky, that's why i said etc..

you should choose your words more carefully, if you were actually right, i might have listened to what you were saying...

pay more attention to WHAT you are trying to say, if you're wrong admit it, don't try to cover it up by agreeing with me..

later -1

Fucking yawn...

Of course I knew what I was saying : Join The Dots is a b-side box set : of the 70 or so tracks on it, 19 aren't b-sides, so that makes it 51 b-sides and 19 non b-sides. It's either that or I describe it as a Mostly B Sides With Other Guff box set.

You're using the finepoint of semantics to avoid the main issue everyone is discussing : these reissues are poorly sequenced, inconsiderately and incomprehensively compiled, and not satisfactory. No amount of debating Cabarate Voltaire, Heaven 17, or Cure reissues is going to detract from that point.

What about Gary Numan/Tubeway Army... Almost all albums, singles, b-sides, etc. have been re-released over the last few years...

-1 wrote: snip

once again, pick a group that 'acknowledges' all their remixes on any of their boxsets.... guess what, there aren't any..

not

ultravox

ultravox have a box set?

hibster wrote:

-1 wrote: snip

once again, pick a group that 'acknowledges' all their remixes on any of their boxsets.... guess what, there aren't any..

not

ultravox

ultravox have a box set?

technically no.. they've released remasters of the first three albums with john foxx together..

and they're working on the following:

2cd remasters of vienna , rage in eden -coming out this month 2cd remasters of the rest of their albums

a package called 'anthology' that will wrap up the leftover remaining tracks..

supposedly these remasters will be better than the last set that got released..

we'll see about that..

later -1

yeah, knew about the remasters cheers.

thought you may have solved my xmas shopping for a minute

Hmm, incase no one new the 2nd temptaion is the 12" version according to amazon.

To be fair, most of this stuff is elswhere. I might get Technique simply because that's the only one I don't have on cd, and I've never heard MTO or some of the otehr b-sides.

The second Temptation isn't on the promo discs at all, we'll see if it shows up on the released ones.

johnny james wrote: The second Temptation isn't on the promo discs at all, we'll see if it shows up on the released ones.

Maybe they needed to get rid of Temptation to add extra room for State of the Nation.

any updates from those that have the promos?

later -1

-1 wrote:

i like here on this board, that they give every other group out there a free pass, on messing up their remasters.

so i guess you don't want all the original remixes of opportunities (they still aren't on cd), love comes quickly, or west end girls? the songs that gave them their start? you must not be much of a fan.. i don't care about the books, jingles, or crappy filler... just give me all the original music, the way it was released, all the 7" edits, the 10" edits, the promo mixes, thats what i wanted, and i didn't get it obviously...

later -1

Don't really want to derail this thread but "you must not be much of a fan"... get to fuck. Imflammatory comment or what.

I love PSB and I'm not saying that the remasters were perfect but come on. I'd say they were as good as they could be given the fact that the remit. Full 12" versions, b-sides and demos plus a track by track commentary from the band in book form - that's a pretty good package in anybody's book, except yours. The early Bobby O stuff is not owned by them so that's to to be expected, and as I stated, you got practically all the 12" versions that the band did themselves. EMI would have given the project a certain budget and limitations - 1 CD of the original album and one extras disc. I would have loved a massive boxset of rarities and other remixes but there you go - I was very happy with what we got. PSB do care about their fans - hence the giving away of demos etc via the website as it's clear that EMI won't be letting them do any more remasters in the near future.

Whereas the New Order reissues are just cack, and I'll be going with £50's versions.

got the message wrote:

-1 wrote:

i like here on this board, that they give every other group out there a free pass, on messing up their remasters.

so i guess you don't want all the original remixes of opportunities (they still aren't on cd), love comes quickly, or west end girls? the songs that gave them their start? you must not be much of a fan.. i don't care about the books, jingles, or crappy filler... just give me all the original music, the way it was released, all the 7" edits, the 10" edits, the promo mixes, thats what i wanted, and i didn't get it obviously...

later -1

Don't really want to derail this thread but "you must not be much of a fan"... get to fuck. Imflammatory comment or what.

I love PSB and I'm not saying that the remasters were perfect but come on. I'd say they were as good as they could be given the fact that the remit. Full 12" versions, b-sides and demos plus a track by track commentary from the band in book form - that's a pretty good package in anybody's book, except yours. The early Bobby O stuff is not owned by them so that's to to be expected, and as I stated, you got practically all the 12" versions that the band did themselves. EMI would have given the project a certain budget and limitations - 1 CD of the original album and one extras disc. I would have loved a massive boxset of rarities and other remixes but there you go - I was very happy with what we got. PSB do care about their fans - hence the giving away of demos etc via the website as it's clear that EMI won't be letting them do any more remasters in the near future.

Whereas the New Order reissues are just cack, and I'll be going with £50's versions.

-1 is always right and we are always wrong. If you thought you were relatively happy with the PSB remasters, you were sadly mistaken. Instead of a carefully chosen selection of tracks, what would have made you really happy would have been EVERY single version of everything a band has ever put out. EVER. But, if you like Kraftwerk, and you thought that you might like a package that captured Francois K's mixes of Tour de France and The Telephone Call, and say, William Orbit's mix of Radioactivity. Well, you are wrong again. Because -1 knows music and we don't.

Ger Boy wrote: They should do a tour to promote these reissues!!

I'm sure they all have plenty of free time at the moment! the lazy buggers!

Hooky was in Amsterdam over the weekend, dj-ing that is...did look quite busy though:D

Emile Strunz wrote:

-1 is always right and we are always wrong. If you thought you were relatively happy with the PSB remasters, you were sadly mistaken. Instead of a carefully chosen selection of tracks, what would have made you really happy would have been EVERY single version of everything a band has ever put out. EVER. But, if you like Kraftwerk, and you thought that you might like a package that captured Francois K's mixes of Tour de France and The Telephone Call, and say, William Orbit's mix of Radioactivity. Well, you are wrong again. Because -1 knows music and we don't.

Ah cheers, there was a niggling feeling at the back of my mind that I was wrong and that my opinion was worthless, and it's good to have it confirmed by someone else. I thought I read somewhere that record companies just release substandard product to annoy -1 and for no other reason. Probably on Wikipedia.

got the message wrote:

Emile Strunz wrote:

-1 is always right and we are always wrong. If you thought you were relatively happy with the PSB remasters, you were sadly mistaken. Instead of a carefully chosen selection of tracks, what would have made you really happy would have been EVERY single version of everything a band has ever put out. EVER. But, if you like Kraftwerk, and you thought that you might like a package that captured Francois K's mixes of Tour de France and The Telephone Call, and say, William Orbit's mix of Radioactivity. Well, you are wrong again. Because -1 knows music and we don't.

Ah cheers, there was a niggling feeling at the back of my mind that I was wrong and that my opinion was worthless, and it's good to have it confirmed by someone else. I thought I read somewhere that record companies just release substandard product to annoy -1 and for no other reason. Probably on Wikipedia.

at least i admit my bias,

i have yet to see anyone else admit theirs..towards PSB, the cure, depeche mode, etc...or maybe this is your way of showing how much you like them, and are willing to forgive their laziness!...

and you forgot that i said the erasure boxsets EBX1-EBX4 were nearly perfect...convenient for you to miss that...

later -1

"i have yet to see anyone else admit theirs..towards PSB, the cure, depeche mode, etc...or maybe this is your way of showing how much you like them, and are willing to forgive their laziness!..."

The bottom line is that it does not require example of something better to validate someone's low opinion of something else. An opinion is just that, an opinion. You don't go to a restaurant and have the food and service turn out to be shit only to be forced to come up with a list of examples from other restaurants that were better in order to make a complaint. That just doesn't make any sense. If you are not pleased, you're simply not pleased.

If some of us here are a bit upset about the upcoming New Order releases, perhaps it's because it's a group who we really care the most about and want to get the best product possible to take care of most of the stuff that has not been available on CD yet. Although I'm a fan of The Cure, DM, PSB, etc, I personally don't place them above New Order on my list of favorite music, therefor it doesn't matter to me to have all or even any of their obscure mixes. If I did, I would be complaining about it on another message board, much like we are doing here with New Order.

Re-Member wrote:

The bottom line is that it does not require example of something better to validate someone's low opinion of something else. An opinion is just that, an opinion. You don't go to a restaurant and have the food and service turn out to be shit only to be forced to come up with a list of examples from other restaurants that were better in order to make a complaint. That just doesn't make any sense. If you are not pleased, you're simply not pleased.

i'm in the same position as you are, and everyone else, we're all getting robbed, right? i have never once said the 'new order' remasters were good/complete etc.

but you people (and whoever else) that keep on posting how great other remasters/boxsets are, and how new orders are terrible, are doing exactly the same thing you accuse me of doing...................in reverse..

people keep trying to point to other groups as examples to look to, when in fact they are all varying degrees of quality.. so why is anyone elses opinion about how other groups respond any better than mine?

its not that hard - this is not opinion

want everything - you'll most likely never get it (unless a group has very few releases)

if you're happy with a basic sample of a groups output - yeah, that's what the majority of releases are, then life goes on

if you're a casual buyer, like the majority of people out there - the bonus and remastered versions are fine, and you won't complain

i guess most of you fall in between the 2nd and 3rd categories....for other groups..

but when it comes to new order, suddenly you're in the 1st ....

that's why its bias...

later -1

-1 wrote:

at least i admit my bias,

i have yet to see anyone else admit theirs..towards PSB, the cure, depeche mode, etc...or maybe this is your way of showing how much you like them, and are willing to forgive their laziness!...

and you forgot that i said the erasure boxsets EBX1-EBX4 were nearly perfect...convenient for you to miss that..

later -1

Right.

One: I place PSB & NO on an equal basis as my fave bands (along with Saint Etienne) and neither have been perfect when it has come to reissues, but New Order are taking the piss first with Retro and now with the new remasters.

Two: to call PSB lazy when to comes to their back catalogue is shit to say the least. Very few other bands go to the effort they went to with the reissues of their first six albums.

Three: the Erasure boxsets were nearly perfect? Eh? What the fuck was wrong with them? Straight reissues of all their CD singles in a box. What more do you want? And more to the point, those boxsets were all the singes compiled - PSB, Cure etc have never set out to release such a thing so you can't compare like with like. The PSB reissues never set out to be complete, they were meant to be a reissue of the albums with accompanying material from the same era to complement the album, to give a overall picture of the band during that era.

I'd love all the material my fave bands have released to be released, but economics and commerce play a part also, and I'm realistic enough to know that it won't happen, so Im rarely disappointed as my expectations aren't heightened. The New Order remasters are an exception as I would have thought everybody involved would have pushed to make them as comprehensive as possible, but alas, all involved have been fucking lazy bastards to a man. I bet the artwork hasn't been improved as well. Shitters.

Nuff said.

got the message wrote:

-1 wrote:

at least i admit my bias,

i have yet to see anyone else admit theirs..towards PSB, the cure, depeche mode, etc...or maybe this is your way of showing how much you like them, and are willing to forgive their laziness!...

and you forgot that i said the erasure boxsets EBX1-EBX4 were nearly perfect...convenient for you to miss that..

later -1

Right.

One: I place PSB & NO on an equal basis as my fave bands (along with Saint Etienne) and neither have been perfect when it has come to reissues, but New Order are taking the piss first with Retro and now with the new remasters.

Two: to call PSB lazy when to comes to their back catalogue is shit to say the least. Very few other bands go to the effort they went to with the reissues of their first six albums.

Three: the Erasure boxsets were nearly perfect? Eh? What the fuck was wrong with them? Straight reissues of all their CD singles in a box. What more do you want? And more to the point, those boxsets were all the singes compiled - PSB, Cure etc have never set out to release such a thing so you can't compare like with like. The PSB reissues never set out to be complete, they were meant to be a reissue of the albums with accompanying material from the same era to complement the album, to give a overall picture of the band during that era.

I'd love all the material my fave bands have released to be released, but economics and commerce play a part also, and I'm realistic enough to know that it won't happen, so Im rarely disappointed as my expectations aren't heightened. The New Order remasters are an exception as I would have thought everybody involved would have pushed to make them as comprehensive as possible, but alas, all involved have been fucking lazy bastards to a man. I bet the artwork hasn't been improved as well. Shitters.

Nuff said.

Fucking A!!!!

Atleast the state of the nation fans can jump with glee. They have around 3 or 4 versions now, isn't that fanfookintastic?

got the message wrote:

Two: to call PSB lazy when to comes to their back catalogue is shit to say the least. Very few other bands go to the effort they went to with the reissues of their first six albums.

Three: the Erasure boxsets were nearly perfect? Eh? What the fuck was wrong with them? Straight reissues of all their CD singles in a box. What more do you want? Nuff said.

about psb: why did they waste all the space leftover on the first disc? they could have easily put more mixes/tracks there.. that's why it seemed like a rush job... the bside tracks were all out of order, a total mess to listen to...

about erasure: they were missing all the promo mixes, and edits, like 'blue savannah', 'chains of love', etc, etc...

i have all the promo cd's for those, but they weren't included..

later -1

-1 wrote:

about psb: why did the waste all the space leftover on the first disc? they could have easily put more mixes/tracks their.. that's why it seemed like a rush job... the bside tracks were all out of order, a total mess to listen to...

about erasure: they were missing all the promo mixes, and edits, like 'blue savannah', 'chains of love', etc, etc...

i have all the promo cd's for those, but they weren't included..

later -1

You are hard work.

Pet Shop Boys - the point was to leave the original albums intact, presumably so EMI could then reissue them as normal single CDs if they felt the need (and because the boys themselves probably felt they should be as they were intended to be - the original album, pure). That's why there's no extra tracks. You want them in order? That's borderline autism. Rush job? You know how long it takes to put these things together? FFS.

Erasure - they were boxsets of all the original 12 inches and CD singles tracks - that means no promos. You get what they released officially through a shop. AND you have all the promos already, so why moan?

looks like someone is getting their ass handed to them on a plate.

Apologists often do.

mark reed wrote: looks like someone is getting their ass handed to them on a plate.

Apologists often do.

Why would anybody get their ass handed to them on a plate? Mine's perfectly well situated on this chair where I'm sat reading this bollocks.

With yer attention to detail y'all gotta work in Library of Congress.

HMV UK

£9.99

http://hmv.com/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=93;-1;-1;-1&sku=864080

4. State Of The Nation

If I wanted the current CD's to sound like the remastered ones, I'd make them twice as loud and sacrifice the top end and details. Nobody wins the loudness wars.

mark reed wrote: If I wanted the current CD's to sound like the remastered ones, I'd make them twice as loud and sacrifice the top end and details. Nobody wins the loudness wars.

Oh god. Do we know for a fact that is how they sound? I came close to burning my Singles 2fer but instead just sold it back getting a third of what I spent. Those discs are wretched.

Audio sample on Warner Music Japan site.

Movement 02. Temptation 7"? 10. Temptation 12"

PCL

Low-Life 04. SHAME of the nation

Brotherhood 07. Tall Pall Dub?

Technique 03.R&R Hague 12"

thanks,

at least now we know what those tracks are..

its the temptation 7", and the 12".

confusuion -> instrumental? [not 'alternative'?]

on the 'low-life' bonus disc -> track 4 = 'shame of the nation'

[*NOTE : on the promo CD it is actually 'state of the nation', so either the website is wrong, or the final version is different'*]

still can't tell if 'blue monday' is missing the first beat or not..

yes, that's 'true faith (eschreamer dub)'

and finally round and round -> 12 mix (or remix)

later -1

Off Topic But:

There's been lots of chat in this thread about various box sets and reissues and how none were perfect.

What do people think of the Massive Attack Singles Boxe Set:

Link

I only had one Massive Attack 12" - Unfinished Sympathy but bought the boxed set when it came out.

Surely something like this would be great although I assume that this is what Recycle was supposed to be?

Sardan wrote: Off Topic But:

There's been lots of chat in this thread about various box sets and reissues and how none were perfect.

What do people think of the Massive Attack Singles Box Set:

Surely something like this would be great although I assume that this is what Recycle was supposed to be?

yeah, its not bad,

it's still missing all the promo mixes, so it's not complete either.. [especially the 'protection' ones]...

it's also missing edits of tracks..

if you want an incomplete set, then here you go..

it's still not complete.. and also, they wasted money on a totally gimmicky color changing box...

later -1

Now then,

My name is John Doran and I'm the owner/editor/writer of a new, independent website called The Quietus. My first ever interview was with New Order when I chatted to them for a fanzine which was published in Merseyside in 1988. Anyway, I was hoping to get some feedback on the reissue reviews that I'd written. I thought it was genuinely of some interest rather than spam or what have you.

Cheers.

http://www.thequietus.com/articles/new-order-back-catalogue-reissues

John Doran wrote: Now then,

My name is John Doran and I'm the owner/editor/writer of a new, independent website called The Quietus. My first ever interview was with New Order when I chatted to them for a fanzine which was published in Merseyside in 1988. Anyway, I was hoping to get some feedback on the reissue reviews that I'd written. I thought it was genuinely of some interest rather than spam or what have you.

Cheers.

http://www.thequietus.com/articles/new-order-back-catalogue-reissues

stop posting this, it was already mentioned : http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=43407

we want to know the quality, not a history lesson..

later -1

Ally wrote:

Some of us are interested in reading new articles - of whatever quality - on the band's work so it's definitely not for you to decree what the royal "we" want to know about.

The guy's promoting his article and as far as I can see he hasn't spammed the board so that's fair enough. Good luck to him. Casual web journalists are never going to exactly write a detailed audio clarity breakdown of a CD remaster are they?

they already posted it once before, why again?

and it would have been nice, if there was actually anything new said in there, which there wasn't.. don't you think all that information about their background is already here on this website?????????????

once again, we already knew everything about these releases many times over, except for the sound quality..

isn't that the whole point of a remaster?????????????????????????

later -1

I think these reissues are rubbish. Obviously there isn't an earth shattering amount of material to choose from but they could have done a lot better than that. Unfortunately it’s an inevitable consequence of the demise of Factory and having to sign to a major to make a living. What was it the guy from London records said in NewOrderStory` about "it was time for New Order" to be on a major. In what way have they been served by a major? A decline in sales and artistic credibility with each successive album and a parallel succession of shoddy reissues that will go on for years (best of, rest of, international, singles and now these turds). Its no surprise there isn’t a single real fan of the band at the record label but unfortunately the band obviously haven’t been too interested in their legacy either, which according to Hookey was part of the reason for his departure. So an uncaring record company simply put out what they thought the fans would buy and it appears that most will not and if they think these are going to reel in a whole lot of fans I think they are mistaken. I think I’ll concentrate on buying all the vinyl to listen to the true majesty of Temptation et al. There is only one way as far as I’m concerned that the label and the band can redeem themselves and that is to put out a CD single box set of all the Factory singles(with all the b sides) like the one the Clash just released. That would be heaven 19 singles from Ceremony to World in Motion in original card sleeves. I would listen to them forever.

Philip Nash wrote: There is only one way as far as I’m concerned that the label and the band can redeem themselves and that is to put out a CD single box set of all the Factory singles(with all the b sides) like the one the Clash just released. That would be heaven 19 singles from Ceremony to World in Motion in original card sleeves. I would listen to them forever.

philip,

first of all, your missing something, it's 20 singles for that era (21 if you count 'ceremony twice)....

so you're wrong there..

check out the 'recycle' project here that is being worked on:

http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=43364

as far as the clash boxset goes, why would you want that? first of all its missing a lot of tracks/edit/demos that were on the 'clash on broadway' boxset http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_on_Broadway..

it's nowhere near complete, and it wastes a lot of space that could have been used on each disc..

another error reported about it : One fatal flaw, though: the spoken coda to the "The Cost of Living" EP is missing (the guy w/the Jamaican patois (Razorhead?) telling folks to pick up the EP). Perhaps it was missing from the master tape?

i doubt you would want a boxset missing tracks, and having errors...or you could just pick up retro..

later -1

I was counting EGG and Procession as one single which of course it was in the UK but if you want to say 20 or 21 fine

The Clash set IS complete it’s a SINGLES box set of their UK SINGLES and includes all the b sides of the 7” and (as far as I know) 12” singles issued in the UK. There weren’t any demos or edits on the original UK singles, the record company has tacked on some bonus tracks on to various CDs but essentially it’s a complete collection of UK singles.

Granted the joke advert isn’t on the end of Capital Radio Two, it never has been on any CD release(its actually Strummer doing the patois) but considering Gates of the West from the E.P. wasn’t even readily available on CD its not too important. There are also five other tracks new to CD and several hard to find tracks so its about as good as it gets for a record company box set.

Philip Nash wrote:

There are also five other tracks new to CD and several hard to find tracks so its about as good as it gets for a record company box set.

once again, it's easy to give groups you like a 'pass' when it comes to being complete or correct..

thats no excuse...

but all of sudden when it comes to 'new order', everybody starts acting like we're being robbed, ripped off, and given the a rush job.....what else is new? it's ALWAYS been like that, since the mess that was 'substance'...there's no reason to expect it to have gotten it better, so why expect/demand it now?

RECORD COMPANIES WILL NEVER GET THE BOXSET/COMPILATION RELEASES RIGHT,ITS NOT POSSIBLE....especially for groups with large discographies, many albums, and releases in different countries..

later -1

Amazon.com and Amazon.ca now have the "Collector's Editions" available for pre-order, release date of Nov 11. $22.99 each at Amazon.com, and $28.99 each at Amazon.ca.

End of the day, who gives a fuck? This is New Order. The product is always part genius and part flawed. Why should reissues be any different to everything else they have ever done?

Tokoloshe Man wrote: Audio sample on Warner Music Japan site.

Brotherhood

CD2, Track 8: Erm...is this supposed to be "Beach Buggy"? If so, why does it play Blue Monday '88 (dub version)?

indiearchivist wrote:

Tokoloshe Man wrote: Audio sample on Warner Music Japan site.

Brotherhood

CD2, Track 8: Erm...is this supposed to be "Beach Buggy"? If so, why does it play Blue Monday '88 (dub version)?

yes, that and the True Faith "true dub" remix (the only out of place remix in the series it seems?), that would be like two errors in a row. Which is a bad omen for how seriously they took this project.

I just hope the actual main 80s songs are really remastered, that is all can hope for at this point.

indiearchivist wrote:

Tokoloshe Man wrote: Audio sample on Warner Music Japan site.

Brotherhood

CD2, Track 8: Erm...is this supposed to be "Beach Buggy"? If so, why does it play Blue Monday '88 (dub version)?

It seems to me you don't know enough about New Order song titles. Blue Monday '88 (Dub Version) IS Beach Buggy. You call it a dub version, but it has always been Beach Buggy if you ask me. So nothing's wrong with that one.

Luke wrote:

indiearchivist wrote:

Tokoloshe Man wrote: Audio sample on Warner Music Japan site.

Brotherhood

CD2, Track 8: Erm...is this supposed to be "Beach Buggy"? If so, why does it play Blue Monday '88 (dub version)?

It seems to me you don't know enough about New Order song titles. Blue Monday '88 (Dub Version) IS Beach Buggy. You call it a dub version, but it has always been Beach Buggy if you ask me. So nothing's wrong with that one.

you fail.,.

and you don't know your new order songs:

new order - beach buggy 6:53 http://rapidshare.com/files/146170008/New_Order_-Blue_Monday__Beach_Buggy_12_inch.mp3.html new order - blue monday 88 (dub) 7:16 http://rapidshare.com/files/146173784/03_Blue_Monday_1988__Dub_Version_.mp3.html

stop correcting people when you're wrong..

stop correcting people, go to the discography here on this site, then discogs.com, and then niagara.edu if you still think you know everything..

i'm glad you're not in charge of the remasters! or anything that has to do with 'new order' , who knows what else would have gone wrong if we listened to people like you..

and you have the nerve to roll your eyes !!!

later -1

-1 wrote: thanks,

at least now we know what those tracks are..

its the temptation 7", and the 12".

confusuion -> instrumental? [not 'alternative'?]

on the 'low-life' bonus disc -> track 4 = 'shame of the nation'

still can't tell if 'blue monday' is missing the first beat or not..

yes, that's 'true faith (eschreamer dub)'

and finally round and round -> 12 mix (or remix)

later -1

So, (and I'm being a bit of a spazz here) - we get neither of the 1987 versions of Temptation or Confusion across any of the remasters??

But we do get a Tall Paul house mix of True Faith?

Awesome

those '87 versions were never released as singles, they were exclusive to the Substance compilation. So it makes sense they're not on the reissues. Neither are as good as the originals anyway.

The moaning continues...

Emile Strunz wrote:

So, (and I'm being a bit of a spazz here) - we get neither of the 1987 versions of Temptation or Confusion across any of the remasters??

But we do get a Tall Paul house mix of True Faith?

Awesome

why would you want them again?

i'm glad we're getting a rare and new mix that was only promo vinyl before..

later -1

This a curious "article" from earlier in the year

http://apollozerojukebox.multiply.com/journal/item/133/New_Order_back_together_working_on_remasters

-1 wrote:

Emile Strunz wrote:

So, (and I'm being a bit of a spazz here) - we get neither of the 1987 versions of Temptation or Confusion across any of the remasters??

But we do get a Tall Paul house mix of True Faith?

Awesome

why would you want them again?

i'm glad we're getting a rare and new mix that was only promo vinyl before..

later -1

Yep, the moaning does continue.

The True Faith mix? It'll sound like a dance fashion mix - a sound that was in, in the more commercial clubs back in the 90s and mixed by that electronic pioneer Tall Paul. Urghhhhhh.

I listened to that Biff and Memphis mix of TBTHOG recently and was appalled at how dated and naff it sounds. Pure underground electronic dance music still sounds good now, whereas these fashionable house mixes go out of fashion after 5mins. And one final time - why include it on this package - why not a TWA or Morel mix - they're just as bad!

I actually prefer the 87 versions of Confusion and Temptation - a remastered Substance would have sorted this shit out

Emile Strunz wrote:

Yep, the moaning does continue.

The True Faith mix? It'll sound like a dance fashion mix - a sound that was in, in the more commercial clubs back in the 90s and mixed by that electronic pioneer Tall Paul. Urghhhhhh.

have you not heard it yet? i have it, and it's a lot better than 90% of the mixes that new order have done since then..

I listened to that Biff and Memphis mix of TBTHOG recently and was appalled at how dated and naff it sounds. Pure underground electronic dance music still sounds good now, whereas these fashionable house mixes go out of fashion after 5mins.

a lot of new order mixes sound dated, so really, it wouldn't have made a difference which mix they picked..

the point i thought was to sample new order releases, and actually put rare, and sometimes unreleased material on there..

this track fits the bill exactly.. as its both rare, and unreleased..

later -1

Emile Strunz wrote:

The True Faith mix? It'll sound like a dance fashion mix - a sound that was in, in the more commercial clubs back in the 90s and mixed by that electronic pioneer Tall Paul. Urghhhhhh.

I listened to that Biff and Memphis mix of TBTHOG recently and was appalled at how dated and naff it sounds. Pure underground electronic dance music still sounds good now, whereas these fashionable house mixes go out of fashion after 5mins. And one final time - why include it on this package - why not a TWA or Morel mix - they're just as bad!

I agree with this 100%. These remixes are so unnecessary and have dated badly.

well the promos for 'pcl' and 'low-life'

have shown :

blue monday -> still missing intro beats confusion (alt mix) -> confusion (inst)

the perfect kiss -> full 12" version subculture/dubvulture -> full 12" versions shellshock -> short 6 min version state of the nation -> not 'shame' on the promo

later -1

But how do they sound? Compressed? - UPDATE, my bad, just found your other threads.

i'll be getting 'movement' and 'brotherhood' shortly also..

will post more information when they arrive..

officially, they will be out in a week..

later -1

Apparently, what is shown on the tracklisting (e.g. Mesh or True Dub) will be reflected on the releases...

No unheard tracks then eh? Still might be worth it if there's a tell all interview in the sleeve notes =]

Might get Movement, just so I can own a CD with both Ceremony and Mesh on it

http://www.juno.co.uk/artists/New+Order

PCL

Low-Life

Brotherhood

Technique

no Movement now. check audio samples and sleeves.

Tokoloshe Man wrote: http://www.juno.co.uk/artists/New+Order

PCL

Low-Life

Brotherhood

Technique

no Movement now. check audio samples and sleeves.

Argh! Now this website lists Shame of the Nation on the bonus disc of Low-Life, yet the promos and one of the reviews state that it's State of Nation.

CONFUSION!