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Monsieur Round & Round wrote:
Ryan wrote: Hmmm...
"rare "Substance" double album" - since when is Substance rare?
Blue Monday missing the first beat? WTF?
typograhical errors?
they couldn't locate the other Salvation stuff in time? What is it playing hide and seek or something?
This is a disaster.
Relax, Ryan! That post is obviously taking the piss on Warners' marketeers. The truth is much worse, of course!
It is? I couldn't tell.
But yes, it's still a disaster regardless. 
SHAME OF THE NATION:
This is it ... I made up my mind today :I don't need this shitty New Order reissues because of the bonus discs. I'm NOT going to buy this pile of crap. NO WAY!
Especially because of what they said about Shellshock:
"except Shellshock where, for technical reasons, we couldn't fit in the whole song - a CD can only hold a maximum of 55 minutes of music".
Now please, if London Records think THIS is sounding logical to our ears/eyes, than they're wrong on every occasion. It's not even an argument to defend their ridiculous decision. Besides, a CD can hold up for about 80 minutes of music, so this 'excuse' is not legitimate.
And why do we need 2 identical versions of State Of The Nation? (on the bonus disc of Low Life and on the Brotherhood album). At least they could have included Shame Of The Nation on one of the two albums instead of the same version.
Furthermore because they THINK True Dub was 'misspelled', it had to be the '94-dub-version. This is also unforgiveable because it's a 90's mix and NO (Shep Pettibone) 80's mix (and all of the albums are from the 80's Factory years). Finally they included the 87-version of Temptation and NOT the original 12" (or even 7") on the Movement bonus disc AND SAYING this was the 'original version' of the song. How stupid can you get?!?!?!
It is getting worse and worse and worse everytime more news comes out of these bonus discs. I will NEVER buy any New Order stuff in my life anymore.
£50 Guy wrote: I found some information about the contents on the web:
Movement - The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original Martin Hannett production. True to the original CD release, the unnecessary first few beats of the song "Senses" will not be included. Bonus disc highlights include: The early Singles and b-sides, but in the wrong order. The original Temptation ("original mix" - aka 5/87 version - from Facd193) and rarity Cries and Whispers (taken from the rare "Substance" double album and sought-after "Retro" 4CD set), although on the back cover it is listed as "Mesh" (a slight typographical error).
Power, Corruption and Lies - The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Bonus disc highlights include: The 12" singles versions of Blue Monday (unfortunately, the first beat of the song is missing, we apologize for the inconvenience this may cause), Confusion, Thieves Like Us and Murder. Although there was ground-breaking material recorded throughout 1982, it was decided instead include the flip-sides of the singles: The Beach, Confused Beats, Lonesome Tonight and Thieves Like Us Instrumentals. All previously available on the "Substance" and "Retro".
Low-Life The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. We have gone to great lengths to ensure the legendary "brutal choppy-chop-chop whoops-there-went-half-a-verse" edit of "Perfect Kiss" is still present on this sparkling Collectors Edition. Bonus disc highlights include: "State Of The Nation", more 12" single versions (except Shellshock where, for technical reasons, we couldn't fit in the whole song - a CD can only hold a maximum of 55 minutes of music) of album tracks and their b-sides. Let's Go Instrumental and Salvation Theme from the film soundtrack (the tracks "Skullcrusher", "Sputnik", and the original band mix of "Touched By The Hand Of God" could not be located in time - we apologize for the inconvenience). The original version of "Let's Go", although recorded during the "Low-life" album sessions, was out-voted in favour of the masterpiece "Dub-vulture" which closes this magnificent collection.
Brotherhood The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Includes special bonus track "State Of The Nation" (previously available on the "Low-life" bonus disc above). Bonus disc highlights include: Two versions of Blue Monday 1988 (you can never have enough versions of this classic song). Dance mixes from Shep Pettibone of Bizarre Love Triangle and True Faith. Also includes a track listed as "True Dub": this should in fact be "True Faith -94 (the bouncey bouncey dance remix)" - a typograhical error, we apologize for the inconvenience.
Technique The original CD made louder to the (vanishing) point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Bonus disc highlights include: The 12" singles Run2 (sort of, it is in fact only half the single) and Round&Round (in its club remix form, not the extended 12", despite what it says on the tin), and rare b-sides MTO (remix only, original version not featured), Best and Marsh (from "Retro") and Vanishing Point Instrumental. The Steve Silk Hurley remix of Fine Time. New Order's last release on Factory/MCA Records and only NO 1 UK Single, World In Motion in it's Carabinieri mix (we can't spell, so on this release it will be called the "Cabinieri" mix). It was decided that the Rob Gretton favourite "The Happy One", although recorded during the Technique sessions, should be left out to make space for the previously mentioned (and previously released) "Fine Time" and "World In Motion" remixes.
Personally, I think I'll save my money for the "Republic" re-release with its five Sly & Robbie remixes of "Ruined In A Day" and three unique Paul Oakenfold mixes of "World" on the bonus disc.
I think someones' tongue is stuck firmly in someones' cheek
& as much as I've bitched,yes,I will be buying them because let's face it,even substandard N.O. releases beat the fook out of pretty much everything else.Let's face it,most of this is groundbreaking,history-making,serious fookin' quality material,so this is the end of my bitching( probably ) 
Nick King wrote:
Emile Strunz wrote:
Ryan wrote: Hmmm...
"rare "Substance" double album" - since when is Substance rare?
Blue Monday missing the first beat? WTF?
typograhical errors?
they couldn't locate the other Salvation stuff in time? What is it playing hide and seek or something?
This is a disaster.
Add to this, the fact that the remastering sounds like they'ved just compressed the fuck out the originals and made them louder.
I've made my mind up. I WILL NOT BE BUYING THESE ON ACCOUNT OF THEM BEING FUCKING USELESS AND POINTLESS.
If you're going to do something, do it properly. Otherwise it's a waste of time and money - two commodities that I'm not going to waste on this shower of cunts masquerading as people who know what they're doing.
Erm, the fifty quid guy was taking the piss! :p
Thanks, I was aware of the jocular nature of that post. I think humour is the only option. The fact is those errors and lazy choices will be very real at the end of September. Given the recent output of the band, you wouldn't bet against the remastering being total and utter gash
Im excited, the 87 version of temptation has FINALLY been remastered. This isn't all too negative friends, I mean what were we expecting? Hell, we could all pitch in stuff we've collected and make our own damn rare release collection. I know theres the excerpts from recycle boot, but nothing there is extremely rare. The least they couldve done is given a DVD ie Depeche, so I could rip higher end stereo files, can't please us all I suppose. This doesn't bother me too much, because being one of the newer fans it'll be a chance for me to get things like Run 2 and the like.
£50 Guy, some very funny stuff! And as as an only slightly more regular visitor to this site may i say, Welcome. If only everyone who moans on this site had your wit. More please!!
In the discography section on NOOL, albums and such say # people own this and # people want this.
For these reissues, it will be a few people own this and ZERO people want this.
Knuckles wrote: In the discography section on NOOL, albums and such say # people own this and # people want this.
For these reissues, it will be a few people own this and ZERO people want this.
speak for yourself, i've got all my copies pre-ordered, and can't wait until they arrive..
later -1
Debaser wrote: £50 Guy, some very funny stuff! And as as an only slightly more regular visitor to this site may i say, Welcome. If only everyone who moans on this site had your wit. More please!!
Doubt its someone new.... so who is running with the Alias of 50 pounds??? But definately my feelings on the whole remastering... didn't expect anything different, NO has had a history of not being in control of thier releases so why start now?
Knuckles wrote: In the discography section on NOOL, albums and such say # people own this and # people want this.
For these reissues, it will be a few people own this and ZERO people want this.
What a load of crap - you're assuming that most people are like you and want to make a massive deal about how disappointed they are about the tracklisting. You are aware that these are bonus discs, aren't you? As in, you are getting a remastered full album plus a second disc. Not all remastered CDs have a bonus disc, hence the word "bonus".
All assumptions about the "compressed to the point of distortion"- type remastering is...guess what...an assumption. Unless you've heard the discs and know them to be crap quality, you're talking shite, and should acknowledge as such.
Fair enough if you don't plan on buying it - vote with your feet and don't buy the friggin things, simple as that. But don't moan on about how gutted you are about not having "The Happy One" or whatever on CD...you are getting stuff that hasn't been on CD before, and it will be remasterd....Hooky himself says the remasters sound great...so maybe give them a slim chance to be half-decent releases, eh?
CTB
£50 Guy wrote: I found some information about the contents on the web:
Movement - The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original Martin Hannett production. True to the original CD release, the unnecessary first few beats of the song "Senses" will not be included. Bonus disc highlights include: The early Singles and b-sides, but in the wrong order. The original Temptation ("original mix" - aka 5/87 version - from Facd193) and rarity Cries and Whispers (taken from the rare "Substance" double album and sought-after "Retro" 4CD set), although on the back cover it is listed as "Mesh" (a slight typographical error).
Power, Corruption and Lies - The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Bonus disc highlights include: The 12" singles versions of Blue Monday (unfortunately, the first beat of the song is missing, we apologize for the inconvenience this may cause), Confusion, Thieves Like Us and Murder. Although there was ground-breaking material recorded throughout 1982, it was decided instead include the flip-sides of the singles: The Beach, Confused Beats, Lonesome Tonight and Thieves Like Us Instrumentals. All previously available on the "Substance" and "Retro".
Low-Life The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. We have gone to great lengths to ensure the legendary "brutal choppy-chop-chop whoops-there-went-half-a-verse" edit of "Perfect Kiss" is still present on this sparkling Collectors Edition. Bonus disc highlights include: "State Of The Nation", more 12" single versions (except Shellshock where, for technical reasons, we couldn't fit in the whole song - a CD can only hold a maximum of 55 minutes of music) of album tracks and their b-sides. Let's Go Instrumental and Salvation Theme from the film soundtrack (the tracks "Skullcrusher", "Sputnik", and the original band mix of "Touched By The Hand Of God" could not be located in time - we apologize for the inconvenience). The original version of "Let's Go", although recorded during the "Low-life" album sessions, was out-voted in favour of the masterpiece "Dub-vulture" which closes this magnificent collection.
Brotherhood The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Includes special bonus track "State Of The Nation" (previously available on the "Low-life" bonus disc above). Bonus disc highlights include: Two versions of Blue Monday 1988 (you can never have enough versions of this classic song). Dance mixes from Shep Pettibone of Bizarre Love Triangle and True Faith. Also includes a track listed as "True Dub": this should in fact be "True Faith -94 (the bouncey bouncey dance remix)" - a typograhical error, we apologize for the inconvenience.
Technique The original CD made louder to the (vanishing) point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Bonus disc highlights include: The 12" singles Run2 (sort of, it is in fact only half the single) and Round&Round (in its club remix form, not the extended 12", despite what it says on the tin), and rare b-sides MTO (remix only, original version not featured), Best and Marsh (from "Retro") and Vanishing Point Instrumental. The Steve Silk Hurley remix of Fine Time. New Order's last release on Factory/MCA Records and only NO 1 UK Single, World In Motion in it's Carabinieri mix (we can't spell, so on this release it will be called the "Cabinieri" mix). It was decided that the Rob Gretton favourite "The Happy One", although recorded during the Technique sessions, should be left out to make space for the previously mentioned (and previously released) "Fine Time" and "World In Motion" remixes.
Personally, I think I'll save my money for the "Republic" re-release with its five Sly & Robbie remixes of "Ruined In A Day" and three unique Paul Oakenfold mixes of "World" on the bonus disc.
This sounds so... real!
CTB wrote:
Knuckles wrote: In the discography section on NOOL, albums and such say # people own this and # people want this.
For these reissues, it will be a few people own this and ZERO people want this.
What a load of crap - you're assuming that most people are like you and want to make a massive deal about how disappointed they are about the tracklisting. You are aware that these are bonus discs, aren't you? As in, you are getting a remastered full album plus a second disc. Not all remastered CDs have a bonus disc, hence the word "bonus".
All assumptions about the "compressed to the point of distortion"- type remastering is...guess what...an assumption. Unless you've heard the discs and know them to be crap quality, you're talking shite, and should acknowledge as such.
Fair enough if you don't plan on buying it - vote with your feet and don't buy the friggin things, simple as that. But don't moan on about how gutted you are about not having "The Happy One" or whatever on CD...you are getting stuff that hasn't been on CD before, and it will be remasterd....Hooky himself says the remasters sound great...so maybe give them a slim chance to be half-decent releases, eh?
CTB
Whoa, sensing some hostility here. I never said anything about the sound quality of the remasters, that was someone else. I agree with you about Hooky's comment on the quality of the remasters. I was just highlighting the point that MANY people are disappointed with these releases, and have said so.
And please don't accuse me of making assumptions when you in fact are making assumptions. I'm not 'gutted' that The Happy One isn't available. I think there is plenty for someone, like me born post-True Faith to enjoy, so I will be buying these.
Knuckles wrote:
CTB wrote:
Knuckles wrote: In the discography section on NOOL, albums and such say # people own this and # people want this.
For these reissues, it will be a few people own this and ZERO people want this.
What a load of crap - you're assuming that most people are like you and want to make a massive deal about how disappointed they are about the tracklisting. You are aware that these are bonus discs, aren't you? As in, you are getting a remastered full album plus a second disc. Not all remastered CDs have a bonus disc, hence the word "bonus".
All assumptions about the "compressed to the point of distortion"- type remastering is...guess what...an assumption. Unless you've heard the discs and know them to be crap quality, you're talking shite, and should acknowledge as such.
Fair enough if you don't plan on buying it - vote with your feet and don't buy the friggin things, simple as that. But don't moan on about how gutted you are about not having "The Happy One" or whatever on CD...you are getting stuff that hasn't been on CD before, and it will be remasterd....Hooky himself says the remasters sound great...so maybe give them a slim chance to be half-decent releases, eh?
CTB
Whoa, sensing some hostility here. I never said anything about the sound quality of the remasters, that was someone else. I agree with you about Hooky's comment on the quality of the remasters. I was just highlighting the point that MANY people are disappointed with these releases, and have said so.
And please don't accuse me of making assumptions when you in fact are making assumptions. I'm not 'gutted' that The Happy One isn't available. I think there is plenty for someone, like me born post-True Faith to enjoy, so I will be buying these.
OK, well I'm sorry if you feel hostility was aimed at you in particular Knuckles - that wasn't my intent, it was only my first paragraph that specifically related to your comments. Although, to be fair, your initial comment did imply that you weren't too excited about these releases.
With that in mind, I didn't accuse you of anything - I was making a more general comment on the pessimism that many others had expressed in this and other threads about the remasters; and I was making the point that there are a few of us (including yourself, as I now understand) that will wait until we hear the things before we comment on them.
Sorry your post happened to be straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak - I'm just a bit fed up with all the whinging that other folks are making about these releases, and wanted to give another perspective that some NOOLers are actually kind of looking forward to these.
Cheers
CTB
For shizzle.
I understand what you mean. First people were complaining about The Perfect Kiss, now its Shellshock. Soon it will be Jetstream.
Oh wait...
Sounds seriously underwhelming.
The only thing that even slightly attracts my attention is the Carib...Careb...Italian cops mix of WIM, just for completeness as its one thing I don't already have on cd. But for that I'll wait till its going for a fiver on ebay.
f this board hadn't whinged a few years ago there wouldn't had been a 5th Retro disc.
The plain facts are that we were all hoping for something a bit special - and what we've got is something which is uninspired, inconsistent, and contains errors and strange track choices
Cries and Whispers mislabeled (again) Temptation 1987 but no Confusion 1987 State of the Nation on two of the albums?? 1963 but no original True Faith True Dub mislabeled as it's a pointless 94 Tall Paul dance mix Round & Round is one of the club mixes and not the Stephen Hague 12" remix
These are just the obvious errors and don't highlight the lazy inclusion of what is on the 2nd disc. Remember, we were promised something special with things we hadn't heard before or weren't readily available, and also remember that we have far lesser bands releasing far superior packages for us to make comparisons.
I have practically everything by the band, but to have it released officially, and packaged beautifully...is that too much to fucking ask?
where were you when they made the decision to release these?
were you there when they decided the tracks?
why didn't you say anything before?
why did you wait until it was way too late to do anything about it?
dont' you think people on this board knew it was coming?
don't you think someone knew what options they were going to have?
don't you know how these decisions are made because of monetary and time constraint reasons, especially marketing, and have NOTHING to do with what you are complaining about?
blame yourselves for your own inaction, and inability to contact the proper people to ensure that these issues weren't dealt with at the proper time..
i've worked in program management, and if you don't work on the deadlines they give you, you aren't going to make it.... yes there are some small allowances for slippage and change..
but since we're already talking about a small set of pressings that are being released, there is no massive fanbase, like there are for the u2 remasters (which, by the way, still leave off a ton of tracks), or the bjork remasters, which missed a whole ton of mixes, and put videos on there etc......
so what financial advantage is it to delay this set, and 'fix' the issues...... NONE at ALL....
you (some complainers) act like there is something you can do that will fix what happenened, or that by writing some complaint here, it will be magically conveyed to the correct people..
why don't you contact rhino, or whoever your distributor is, and let them know, or is that too much work for you?
you would just rather complain here, along with the rest of the people, that think they're being 'cool' by putting down what others have been waiting for.....
well, what do i get out of this, i always try, i always miss.....
in the end you will submit, its got to hurt you a little bit..
you get what you deserve..
later -1
This is actually quite similar to what I did back in the 80s. I would take a cassette tape that had 45 minutes on each side. Record the album to the first side. Put the 12" and B sides of the same time period on the second side in whatever order seemed to make sense.
Of course I would had never put the Temptation 87 on the Movement cassette, cause that would have been really stupid.
-1 wrote: where were you when they made the decision to release these?
were you there when they decided the tracks?
why didn't you say anything before?
why did you wait until it was way too late to do anything about it?
dont' you think people on this board knew it was coming?
don't you think someone knew what options they were going to have?
don't you know how these decisions are made because of monetary and time constraint reasons, especially marketing, and have NOTHING to do with what you are complaining about?
blame yourselves for your own inaction, and inability to contact the proper people to ensure that these issues weren't dealt with at the proper time..
i've worked in program management, and if you don't work on the deadlines they give you, you aren't going to make it.... yes there are some small allowances for slippage and change..
but since we're already talking about a small set of pressings that are being released, there is no massive fanbase, like there are for the u2 remasters (which, by the way, still leave off a ton of tracks), or the bjork remasters, which missed a whole ton of mixes, and put videos on there etc......
so what financial advantage is it to delay this set, and 'fix' the issues...... NONE at ALL....
you (some complainers) act like there is something you can do that will fix what happenened, or that by writing some complaint here, it will be magically conveyed to the correct people..
why don't you contact rhino, or whoever your distributor is, and let them know, or is that too much work for you?
you would just rather complain here, along with the rest of the people, that think they're being 'cool' by putting down what others have been waiting for.....
well, what do i get out of this, i always try, i always miss.....
in the end you will submit, its got to hurt you a little bit..
you get what you deserve..
later -1
Thanks - I've also worked in music PR and marketing thanks very much.
Yes, the bottom line is always the bottom line - but New Order own the fucking masters of a few rarities that we were asking for, and it would have cost them nothing to actually think about putting something out special. I'm not talking about pulling the release (hell would freeze over first), I'm talking about when Warners and New Order sat down and discussed their strategies - this is all they could come up with.
In the end, for all your fiscal patronising, these releases will not sell as well as hoped, because they fucked up, and that, is the bottom line!
£50 Guy wrote: I found some information about the contents on the web:
Brotherhood The original CD made louder to the point of distortion, and minus the dynamics of the original New Order production. Includes special bonus track "State Of The Nation" (previously available on the "Low-life" bonus disc above). Bonus disc highlights include: Two versions of Blue Monday 1988 (you can never have enough versions of this classic song). Dance mixes from Shep Pettibone of Bizarre Love Triangle and True Faith. Also includes a track listed as "True Dub": this should in fact be "True Faith -94 (the bouncey bouncey dance remix)" - a typograhical error, we apologize for the inconvenience.
If the remastered CDs are collections of NO songs released by Factory Records from the 1980s, then True Faith 94 definitely shouldn't be included. I would be very disappointed if True Dub is not a shorter version of the Alternate Faith Dub version.
were all of you disappointed when 'substance' was released with the shortened versions of songs, and newer mixes of songs put on there instead of the originals?
what about the vinyl having less tracks than the cds?
what about the cassettes having more tracks than the cd...
history repeating itself..
later -1
Is it possible though, that IF New Order does have and own all the rights to the rare stuff, London records or Warners would have wanted them to sign over the rights to them to let them appear on these reissues? Could be the reason that they are working on this website to sell them direct without having to deal with that....
-1 wrote: were all of you disappointed when 'substance' was released with the shortened versions of songs, and newer mixes of songs put on there instead of the originals?
what about the vinyl having less tracks than the cds?
what about the cassettes having more tracks than the cd...
history repeating itself..
later -1
Does anybody here know what the True Faith -94 (the bouncey bouncey dance remix) sound like? I listened to the Tall Paul version for the first time earlier. I think it is completely out of sync with the rest of the remaster collection. I already have most of the remix CDs of NO. The only reason I'm getting the remastered CDs is because I was hoping to finally get nonpirated CD versions of True Faith (Alternate Faith Dub) & Run 2 (Extended). I already have digital copies of these but if True Dub is not related to Alternate Faith Dub, I might not pass up on Brotherhood Remastered.
ReyMatt wrote: I already have digital copies of these but if True Dub is not related to Alternate Faith Dub, I might not pass up on Brotherhood Remastered.
It's the Tall Paul Mix (aka Eschreamer Dub on a rare 12" promo), unfortunately, and not True Dub (aka Alternate Faith Dub)... :\ohwell:
(I don't have the promos, btw, just going on those that have)
Brian Barker wrote: Is it possible though, that IF New Order does have and own all the rights to the rare stuff, London records or Warners would have wanted them to sign over the rights to them to let them appear on these reissues? Could be the reason that they are working on this website to sell them direct without having to deal with that....
Possibly, but whatever the reason, I'd put money on the track selection on being nothing whatsoever to do with Warners/Rhino/whoever, but instead picked solely by the band...
Emile Strunz wrote: I have practically everything by the band, but to have it released officially, and packaged beautifully...is that too much to fucking ask?
Well, yes it is. Because it's not you deciding the track list, and its not designed specifically for you and no-one else. 
If you've got practically everything by New Order, you'll know that no other CD release exists which has, for example: Dub Vulture Confusion (Alt mix) TPK (8.49 version) Run II
And there's stuff on the track lists which is not widely available on an official CD these days as well, such as: Mesh Let's Go Salvation theme Don't do it MTO Vanishing point Instrumental, etc.
CTB
