CTB wrote:

If you've got practically everything by New Order, you'll know that no other CD release exists which has, for example: Dub Vulture Confusion (Alt mix) TPK (8.49 version) Run II

CTB

ctb, i agree with what you are saying 100% about picking tracks...

but you picked some bad ones.

ok, dub vulture is not on cd..

confusion (alt mix)-> rough mix? http://www.neworderonline.com/Music/Release.aspx?ReleaseID=294

if its the instrumental, thats on cd also.

if it really is some 'new' alternative mix ok....that is new then..

tpk (full version) -> several promos for international had it

run 2 -> found on the laserdisc, and can be easily ripped.

but yes, there are other tracks that you really can't find.. such as MTO that you mistakenly listed as hard to find on cd...

later -1

-1 wrote:

CTB wrote:

If you've got practically everything by New Order, you'll know that no other CD release exists which has, for example: Dub Vulture Confusion (Alt mix) TPK (8.49 version) Run II

CTB

ctb, i agree with what you are saying 100% about picking tracks...

but you picked some bad ones.

ok, dub vulture is not on cd..

confusion (alt mix)-> rough mix? http://www.neworderonline.com/Music/Release.aspx?ReleaseID=294

if its the instrumental, thats on cd also.

if it really is some 'new' alternative mix ok....that is new then..

tpk (full version) -> several promos for international had it

run 2 -> found on the laserdisc, and can be easily ripped.

but yes, there are other tracks that you really can't find.. such as MTO that you mistakenly listed as hard to find on cd...

later -1

OK, point made - but it could be argued that a promo copy of International (rather than the commercially available version)or rip from a laserdic don't constitute offical CD releases. Certainly not as widely available as what you can buy off the shelves, anyway.

By the way, something has just occured to me - the whole Run 2/John Dever lawsuit - are NO being sneaky buggers by including Run 2 on the Technique reissue; getting around the legal wrangles assocaited with "Run 2" by re-titling it as as "Run II"? If so, well done!

CTB

CTB wrote:

-1 wrote:

CTB wrote:

If you've got practically everything by New Order, you'll know that no other CD release exists which has, for example: Dub Vulture Confusion (Alt mix) TPK (8.49 version) Run II

CTB

ctb, i agree with what you are saying 100% about picking tracks...

but you picked some bad ones.

ok, dub vulture is not on cd..

confusion (alt mix)-> rough mix? http://www.neworderonline.com/Music/Release.aspx?ReleaseID=294

if its the instrumental, thats on cd also.

if it really is some 'new' alternative mix ok....that is new then..

tpk (full version) -> several promos for international had it

run 2 -> found on the laserdisc, and can be easily ripped.

but yes, there are other tracks that you really can't find.. such as MTO that you mistakenly listed as hard to find on cd...

later -1

OK, point made - but it could be argued that a promo copy of International (rather than the commercially available version)or rip from a laserdic don't constitute offical CD releases. Certainly not as widely available as what you can buy off the shelves, anyway.

By the way, something has just occured to me - the whole Run 2/John Dever lawsuit - are NO being sneaky buggers by including Run 2 on the Technique reissue; getting around the legal wrangles assocaited with "Run 2" by re-titling it as as "Run II"? If so, well done!

CTB

I agree with you on the international promo and laserdisc. Though, at the same time temptation '87 is also said to be on the international promo...so there goes another "exclusive remastered version".

By the way, something has just occured to me - the whole Run 2/John Dever lawsuit - are NO being sneaky buggers by including Run 2 on the Technique reissue; getting around the legal wrangles assocaited with "Run 2" by re-titling it as as "Run II"? If so, well done!

...this myth just runs and runs!

Run/Run 2 (or even Run II) are treated one and the same, both are now partially credited to John Denver when released, that is the only result of the lawsuit. Also (myth #2) the masters for both totally exist and always did, no-one had to destroy anything they just had to add a credit (and therefore pay a percentage of royalties).

Holy shite, never knew that! Well are we sure, for real this time that this IS run 2? I mean everytime it's just been a over compressed version of run on every other release, did anyone compare the times? Same goes with 1963, is it the substance version?

This time it's the real Run 2 (12" version)

-1 wrote: tpk (full version) -> several promos for international had it

Although listed as such in several discographies, I actually bought some of those International promos, and they didn't have the full-length version of TPK on them...

Nick King wrote:

-1 wrote: tpk (full version) -> several promos for international had it

Although listed as such in several discographies, I actually bought some of those International promos, and they didn't have the full-length version of TPK on them...

yeah, i've seen listings on this site, worldinmotion.net, and of course discogs, and the new order discography:

http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/albums/intl.html

a-ha, it lists the time as the 'substance' version, but then the title is wrong:

CD: AU 2002 (Warner WCDB70) [promo] CD: GE 2002 (Warner) [promo] ["Here To Stay"] CDR: FR 2002 (WEA Music) [promo] ["International Best of"] CDR: UK 2002 (London) [promo] 8:01 The Perfect Kiss (original 12" mix)

i never did find the promo, so i always thought it was the full mix...

hmm..

later -1

were these promo's ever found to be real?

i saw 1 copy of them on ebay once, but never again..

http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/albums/vmas.html

Various Maxis and Singles January 2001

6xCDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Qwest) [promo] [Disc 1] Perfect Kiss (extended) Perfect Kiss (dub mix) Perfect Kiss (instrumental) Perfect Kiss (video short version) Sub-culture (remix) Sub-vulture Sub-culture True Faith (extended) True Faith (alternate faith mix) True Faith (remix 7-inch) [Disc 2] Blue Monday Blue Monday (how does it feel mix - 1988) Blue Monday (dub version - 1988) Blue Monday (single remix edit - 1988) Touched by the Hand of God (remix) Touched by the Hand of God (dub version) 1963 1963 (a baker remix) Thieves Like Us Best and Marsh Beach [Disc 3] Round and Round Round and Round (7 inch) Round and Round (stephen hague 12" remix) Round and Round (kevin saunderson club mix) Round and Round (12" ben grosse remix) Fine Time (7 inch edit) Fine Time (lp version) Fine Time (dub of ft) Fine Time (silk mix) Fine Time (messing around mix) Don't Do It State of the Nation [Disc 4] 4:30 World in Motion (single mix) 4:48 World in Motion (b-side) 5:37 World in Motion (no alla violenza mix) 5:08 World in Motion (subbuteo mix) 5:53 World in Motion (carabinieri mix) 5:07 World in Motion (subbuteo dub) 7:03 Bizarre Love Triangle (lp version) 6:41 Bizarre Love Triangle (extended dance mix) 7:03 Bizarre Love Triangle (dub) 3:45 Bizarre Love Triangle (7 inch) 3:38 Bizarre Love Triangle 3:25 Bizarre Love Triangle 5:00 Bizarre Love Triangle (extended edit) [Disc 5] Regret (lp version) Regret (new order mix) Regret (fire island mix) Regret (junior dub) Spooky (radio edit) Spooky (stadium mix) Spooky (magimix) Spooky (out of order mix) Spooky (night tripper mix) Spooky (moulimix) Spooky (new order in heaven mix) Spooky (boo dub mix) [Disc 6] World (radio edit) World (perfecto mix) World (brothers in rhythm mix) World (world in action mix) World (perfecto edit) World (sexy disco club mix) Ruined in a Day (reunited in a day remix) Ruined in a Day (bogle mix) Ruined in a Day (single)

• This 6-disc set consists of released Warner Bros/Qwest 12" mixes and b-sides for a possible "Best Of" (re-)release. The "Best of" never materialized, "20 Years of New Order" was created instead. ================================ http://www.niagara.edu/neworder/albums/rihcdr2k1.html

Reprise In-House CDR-Pack 2001 January/June 2001

CDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Qwest) ["Various 7" Versions"] 4:41 Confusion [1987 dub] 3:43 Evil Dust 3:33 Rocking Carol 3:55 Ode to Joy 5:19 Temptation [7"] 4:08 Confusion [7"] 3:51 The Perfect Kiss [UK 7"] 3:01 Kiss of Death [UK 7"] 4:23 The Perfect Kiss [FBN 7"] 3:59 The Perfect Kiss [video edit] 4:23 Shellshock [7"] 3:55 Thieves Like Us [instrumental edit] 3:40 Bizarre Love Triangle [CA 7"] 3:44 Bizarre Love Triangle [remix edit] 3:34 Dub-Vulture [edit] 4:20 Bizarre Love Triangle [dub edit] 0:31 Blue Monday [Sunkist commercial] 3:24 Sub-Culture [7"] 3:27 State of the Nation [edit] 2:30 Happy One [from Substance video] 4:55 Sub-Culture [BL 7"]

CDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Reprise) ["Various 80's Remixes/Tracks"] Subculture (joseph watt remix) Temptation (original 12" mix) Shellcock Paradise (robert racic remix) Run 2 (Extended) MTO MTO (minus remix) Everything's Gone Green (7") Cries and Whispers

CDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Reprise) ["1995 Remixes"] Confusion (pump panel dub) Confusion (pump panel flotation remix) World in Motion 96 (mark bell remix) Everything's Gone Green (advent mix 1) Everything's Gone Green (advent mix 2) Everything's Gone Green (advent mix 3) Everything's Gone Green (advent mix 4) Ruined in a Day (k-klass 1993 edit) Temptation 98 Salvation Theme Touched by the Hand of God Let's Go (original) Sputnik Skullcrusher Touched by the Hand of God (original 12")

CDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Reprise) ["1995 Remixes"] Temptation (cj bolland remix) True Faith (twa remix) True Faith (paul oakenfold remix) True Faith (sexy disco dub) 1963 '95 (arthur baker extended) Spooky (nightstripper remix) 1963 (joe t. vannelli light remix) 1963 (joe t. vannelli dubby remix) 1963 (lionrock full throttle remix) 1963 (lionrock M6 sunday morning) 1963 (lionrock sparse'n fast mix)

CDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Reprise) ["The Rest Of New Order + Remixes"] Blue Monday (hardfloor remix) Confusion (pump panel reconstruction) Touched by the Hand of God (biff and memphis) Bizarre Love Triangle (armand van helden mix) Age of Content (howie b remix) Blue Monday (jam and spoon remix) 1963 (joe t. vannelli remix) Blue Monday (richie hawtin remix)

CDR: US 2001 (Warner Bros/Reprise) ["Blue Monday 95"] 6:29 Blue Monday (plutone remix) 5:39 Blue Monday (starwash remix) 8:14 Blue Monday (hardfloor dub) 7:30 Blue Monday (manuela remix) 8:26 Blue Monday (andrea remix) 5:22 Blue Monday (brain remix) 3:47 Blue Monday (plutone edit) 4:13 Blue Monday (hardfloor edit) 7:25 Blue Monday (hawtin love.com mix) [richie hawtin mix] 4:06 True Faith (oakenfold edit) [perfecto radio edit] 7:41 True Faith (tall paul eschreamer dub) 7:44 True Faith (tall paul eschreamer dubbier) [eschreamer mix]

• This 6-disc set was given to a few A&R people at Warner. The tracks are taken from digital and analog sources. There are no unreleased digital versions on this set.
• Released in January and June of 2001.

===================================================

i had a contact that worked for caroline/rhino, or whatever the company was.. and the CD-R for the 7" edits WAS REAL..

later -1

same story with these promos?

I have the first "1995 Remixes" (with the EGG Advent remixes on them), and the others were done (not got them, but know of their existence).

The 7" edits CDR were vinyl-transferred, not digital (again, not got it).

So the press release says Movement has the 7" and 12" mixes of Temptation, but it actually has neither? Great.

let's be blunt about it.

the bonus tracks are a poorly concieved, sequenced, and incomprehensive set of (mostly very available) b-sides

it would've taken only a few hours work to put together a more pleasing and comprehensive package

these reissues are probably fine for people who got into new order from 2001 onwards, but most people who like them liked them a long time before that

these reissues are lacking in any pleasing qualities in terms of tracklist or running order.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

so what's your excuse/apology? [and yes, i'm already working on MY version of it, it just won't be for sale]

later -1

-1 wrote:

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

so what's your excuse/apology? [and yes, i'm already working on MY version of it, it just won't be for sale]

later -1

FFS!! This was always about putting something out that showed that a bit of tender loving fucking care had been shown by the band, and that they cared about their fans. Once again I'll mention Messrs Tennant and Lowe, as the Pet Shop Boys albums were not about releasing their entire back catalogue, but hand picking a few rarities and remixes that tidied things up - imagine Mesh, The Happy One, Shellshock 12", The Perfect Kiss 12", The Perfect Pit, True Dub, Round & Round Detroit mixes, Hacienda flexi etc on Disc 2? I'm sorry, I'm not an intellectual property lawyer, but why would the licensing of these tracks be a problem?

Even Blancmange have recently done a better job on their old albums. That's Blancmange people. Remember them?!!

You couldn't make it up!

Emile Strunz wrote: Even Blancmange have recently done a better job on their old albums. That's Blancmange people. Remember them?!!

You couldn't make it up!

why can't you pick better groups?

i have everything that blancmange has put out, and they're MISSING A TON of mixes, tracks on those cds..

where's the irene and mavis EP? where are the early tracks, and the bbc ones?

what happened to all the mixes of 'dont tell me'? including the US versions.

why isn't the 10min or the 6 minute version of 'lose your love' on there? which is probably their most critical hit..

or these vinyl only tracks?

22339 (extended) Blind Vision (7") Blind Vision (Instrumental Dub Version) Blind Vision (Vocal Edit) Don't tell me (Edit) Don't tell me (Extended Edit) Feel Me (live version) I would Living on the Ceiling (Live) Lose Your Love (7") On Our Way to.. That's Love that it is (ext remix/US 12") Vishnu (7") Waves (7") What's Your Problem (7") What's Your Problem (12")

the blancmange remasters are a joke... and a letdown, just like the pet shop boys were.. (they didn't even put all the versions of west end girls or opportunities on there)..

not quite that complete, is it now?

try again...

and keep up, we already talked about how lame the 'blancmange' remasters were here: http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=43124&PageIndex=2

later -1

I am with you on this.

Also, from Warner's perspective, they are fighting a losing war with CD sales, as with all other record companies. This day and age with younger'uns satisfied with just MP3 quality, there are lesser folks like us who still scout for vinyls and CDs.

So at pt, you've got to ask how dedicated is the record company in re-releasing CD albums. They figure die-hard fans "should" buy re-releases anyway even if they include a bottle of Bernard's fart for every additional $10 purchase. Then there are the once-die hard fans who sold all their collection after getting married and kids. And hopefully attract/lure the younger fans (emo kids?) along the way into the same trap.

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

the bonus tracks are a poorly conceived, sequenced, and incomprehensive set of (mostly very available) b-sides

it would've taken only a few hours work to put together a more pleasing and comprehensive package

these reissues are probably fine for people who got into new order from 2001 onwards, but most people who like them liked them a long time before that

these reissues are lacking in any pleasing qualities in terms of tracklist or running order.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

-1 wrote: why can't you pick better groups?

i have everything that blancmange has put out, and they're MISSING A TON of mixes, tracks on those cds..

Erm, unless you release a 25 CD boxset, those tracks will remain missing, surely?

Isn't it a balance between pre-released tracks and rarities on one CD... Something that New Order have failed to do, but something that Blancmange, The Cure, PSB, Depeche Mode, etc have done?

-1 wrote:

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

Frankly speaking, that's a ridiculous and juvenile criticism. What about movie critics? Are they not allowed to give a bad review of a movie without also coming up with a rewrite of the script and a marketing and distribution plan? Am I not allowed to criticise a badly designed building without coming up with an alternative set of blueprints and getting the required zoning permits, hiring the contractors, etc.?

Or how about this: "I think president Bush is doing a bad job." "Well, then how about you start up your own country and try being president. Can't do it, huh? That's what I thought."

Utterly fucking juvenile!

The fact is that several people here have come up with many valid criticisms of these releases. As to whether the people who put these releases together had good reasons to make the egregious errors on them is besides the point. For all I know, somebody could have put a gun to the compiler's head and forced them to put "State of the Nation" on both Brotherhood (correct) and Low Life (incorrect).

jasonlg2008 wrote:

-1 wrote:

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

Frankly speaking, that's a ridiculous and juvenile criticism. What about movie critics? Are they not allowed to give a bad review of a movie without also coming up with a rewrite of the script and a marketing and distribution plan? Am I not allowed to criticise a badly designed building without coming up with an alternative set of blueprints and getting the required zoning permits, hiring the contractors, etc.?

Or how about this: "I think president Bush is doing a bad job." "Well, then how about you start up your own country and try being president. Can't do it, huh? That's what I thought."

Utterly fucking juvenile!

The fact is that several people here have come up with many valid criticisms of these releases. As to whether the people who put these releases together had good reasons to make the egregious errors on them is besides the point. For all I know, somebody could have put a gun to the compiler's head and forced them to put "State of the Nation" on both Brotherhood (correct) and Low Life (incorrect).

Exactly jasonlg2008!

That's what I was trying to say to our 'London Records N.O. reissues-defender'. About that Blancmange thing: EVERY title-track they made is on their upcoming reissue/remaster of their 3 albums. In fact, Edsel Records did a tremendous job on both Blancmange AND the Thompson Twins-reissues (earlier) this year. I HOPED that London Records (Or Rhino in the States) did this to New Order's. But instead of all this, it is getting worse and worse and worse:

[According to the Rhino & London Records 'promised tracklistings' in August] Here's what's wrong with it:

Double tracks on different CD's, wrong tracklistings, no original Temptation(s), no Shellshock 12", no Round & Round 12" Extended Version, no True Dub but a '90's bouncy dub' (fuck off!) in fact: I am afraid we also get shitty artwork as well. What's next? Will Blue Monday still have the first beats missing AND the volume droppings (which is on EVERY Blue Monday 12" release on CD, ask Re-Member about this) on one channel after 2 minutes plus?!

The other day, I was wondering what would've happened with this project if Rob Gretton had lived?! Or Tony Wilson?! (who was responsible for the whole Substance 1987 project (just look at the New Order Past Present & Future documentary from 1992 from MTV or read some New Order books, especially Claude Flowers' Dreams Never End from december 1994).

I don't care about having mp3. I want the (missing) stuff on CD because I want the BEST possible quality that's available AND I want an actual r.e.c.o.r.d. in my hands (just like the old days). Period. The only thing that London Records and Rhino do is to please the younger "fans" (as someone said earlier). and they don't give a s.h.i.t. about CD's (so who's fooling who?!): in fact , THEY DON'T EVEN BUY THEM REGARDLESS OF THE TRACKS ON IT! THEY DOWNLOAD... AND NO PAYING... THEY USE PEER TO PEER PROGRAMS.

WE are the ones who PAY for the actual music (and the solvability for people who actually work in that business) because we like to buy CD's (and/or vinyl) from our favourite artists. WE are the ones who must be served well by the record company, also we are the ones who waited so long for it to finally happen. And then it didn't happen. What an anticlimax it is ...

So don't get me started mr. Minus One.

-1 wrote:

the blancmange remasters are a joke... and a letdown, just like the pet shop boys were.. (they didn't even put all the versions of west end girls or opportunities on there)..

not quite that complete, is it now?

-1

I don't post much here but this is bollocks. As has been stated, the PSB reissues were not about releasing "all the versions of west end girls" etc - they stated that the remixes on the discs would only be the ones they did themselves, and not those farmed out to other remixers, so that's why they're incomplete. It's all about cohesion, and the "further listening" discs along with the great booklets make them an essential purchase. What the fuck do you want?

The New Order reissues don't work like this, as the selection of tracks is flawed, and obvious stuff has been missed out. Compare and contrast with the upcoming 808 State reissues which have been compiled with consultation from the fans.

Piss poor.

-1

Give me a job at Rhino, and access to the bands mouldy cardboard boxes, and I'll guarantee I could produce something that would be recieved in a far more positive light that this current release.

...and why should be any licensing issues? have you forgotten "THE BAND OWN EVERYTHING, THE LABEL OWN NOTHING."

got the message wrote:

I don't post much here but this is bollocks. As has been stated, the PSB reissues were not about releasing "all the versions of west end girls" etc - they stated that the remixes on the discs would only be the ones they did themselves, and not those farmed out to other remixers, so that's why they're incomplete. It's all about cohesion, and the "further listening" discs along with the great booklets make them an essential purchase. What the fuck do you want?

The New Order reissues don't work like this, as the selection of tracks is flawed, and obvious stuff has been missed out. Compare and contrast with the upcoming 808 State reissues which have been compiled with consultation from the fans.

Piss poor.

i like here on this board, that they give every other group out there a free pass, on messing up their remasters.

so i guess you don't want all the original remixes of opportunities (they still aren't on cd), love comes quickly, or west end girls? the songs that gave them their start? you must not be much of a fan.. i don't care about the books, jingles, or crappy filler... just give me all the original music, the way it was released, all the 7" edits, the 10" edits, the promo mixes, thats what i wanted, and i didn't get it obviously..

don't even get me talking about the 808 state remasters, i could drive a truck through all the tracks they're missing on those remasters.... they cover what, about 30% of their mixes and b-sides? i don't think they were even trying, or were they? ... yeah, there's some cool stuff there, and they tried including a few promo mixes, but once again, it falls completely short...

i'm not sure what 'cohesion' it is that you're talking about, but i don't see a problem with the new order remasters, they cover the major tracks and mixes, and yeah, they messed up some details, and yes some tracks are missing... once again..

the track record

substance - missing tracks, wrong versions, incomplete versions, cd had less tracks than cassette, more than vinyl

best of - missing tracks, wrong versions, different tracks for different countries

rest of - missing mixes, different on vinyl, new mixes instead of originals

international - missing tracks, wrong versions, different bonus for different countries

singles - missing tracks, incomplete versions, wrong listings

since no one was EVER happy with any release that came out before, why did anyone magically think this would be any better?

if they couldn't get it right in the Factory days, or with Gretton, or Wilson, or anyone else, how do think they're going to get it right now..

i don't know what dream world you guys are living in, i'm a realist, and i had completely low expectations for this release, which is probably why i'm not surprised at all..

later -1

I really don't think that Rhino has anything to do with it. Every re-issue that I've ever purchased that has the Rhino name on it has been top notch. I bet that they do the best they can with what they have....

mark reed wrote: -1

Give me a job at Rhino, and access to the bands mouldy cardboard boxes, and I'll guarantee I could produce something that would be recieved in a far more positive light that this current release.

...and why should be any licensing issues? have you forgotten "THE BAND OWN EVERYTHING, THE LABEL OWN NOTHING."

hey, i'd like nothing better than to join you there... i've actually had a contact there a long time ago, from a person..

he was a huge fan of new order stuff, and we traded tracks, and talked about all the cool promos and stuff that was not available..

the biggest problem was finding other people that worked there, that cared... it always came down to marketing, and money, and there was never enough to do it right, because the fan following for 'new order' wasn't enough..

it was like pulling teeth just to get some of the other compilations released here in the US.

the UK (+european) fans are not the problem, they support the group.

its the US fans (north american) that don't seem to care, and stopped caring a long time ago..

later -1

Luke wrote:

jasonlg2008 wrote:

-1 wrote:

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

Frankly speaking, that's a ridiculous and juvenile criticism. What about movie critics? Are they not allowed to give a bad review of a movie without also coming up with a rewrite of the script and a marketing and distribution plan? Am I not allowed to criticise a badly designed building without coming up with an alternative set of blueprints and getting the required zoning permits, hiring the contractors, etc.?

Or how about this: "I think president Bush is doing a bad job." "Well, then how about you start up your own country and try being president. Can't do it, huh? That's what I thought."

Utterly fucking juvenile!

The fact is that several people here have come up with many valid criticisms of these releases. As to whether the people who put these releases together had good reasons to make the egregious errors on them is besides the point. For all I know, somebody could have put a gun to the compiler's head and forced them to put "State of the Nation" on both Brotherhood (correct) and Low Life (incorrect).

Exactly jasonlg2008!

That's what I was trying to say to our 'London Records N.O. reissues-defender'. About that Blancmange thing: EVERY title-track they made is on their upcoming reissue/remaster of their 3 albums. In fact, Edsel Records did a tremendous job on both Blancmange AND the Thompson Twins-reissues (earlier) this year. I HOPED that London Records (Or Rhino in the States) did this to New Order's. But instead of all this, it is getting worse and worse and worse:

[According to the Rhino & London Records 'promised tracklistings' in August] Here's what's wrong with it:

Double tracks on different CD's, wrong tracklistings, no real Temptation(s), no Shellshock 12", no Round & Round 12" Extended Version, no True Dub but a '90's bouncy dub' (fuck off!) in fact: I am afraid we also get shitty artwork as well. What's next? Will Blue Monday still have the first beats missing AND the volume droppings (which is on EVERY Blue Monday 12" release on CD, ask Re-Member about this) on one channel after 2 minutes plus?!

The other day, I was wondering what would've happened with this project if Rob Gretton had lived?! Or Tony Wilson?! (who was responsible for the whole Substance 1987 project (just look at the New Order Past Present & Future documentary from 1992 from MTV or read some New Order books, especially Claude Flowers' Dreams Never End from december 1994).

I don't care about having mp3. I want the (missing) stuff on CD because I want the BEST possible quality that's available AND I want an actual r.e.c.o.r.d. in my hands (just like the old days). Period. The only thing that London Records and Rhino do is to please the younger "fans" (as someone said earlier). and they don't give a s.h.i.t. about CD's (so who's fooling who?!): in fact , THEY DON'T EVEN BUY THEM REGARDLESS OF THE TRACKS ON IT! THEY DOWNLOAD... AND NO PAYING... THEY USE PEER TO PEER PROGRAMS.

WE are the ones who PAY for the actual music (and the solvability for people who actually work in that business) because we like to buy CD's (and/or vinyl) from our favourite artists. WE are the ones who must be served well by the record company, also we are the ones who waited so long for it to finally happen. And then it didn't happen. What an anticlimax it is ...

So don't get me started mr. Minus One.

I'm a younger fan and I BUY what New Order stuff I can find. I felt this may have been worthwhile a few posts ago, but this is preposterous. Think about it, recycle had 20 something odd cd's. What things are we missing? What would be more then "novelty value"? I want a good studio mix of temptation, that doesnt blow out my speakers I.E. singles. Now, in the past there was some redeeming issues for me, I.E. the full thieves like us on international, but now they just tack on the instrumental on the PCL bonus disc? I don't have the time or means to collect every odd single and single variation out there. Now I know this is a whiny post, but this simply could have been done way better.

Brian Barker wrote: I really don't think that Rhino has anything to do with it. Every re-issue that I've ever purchased that has the Rhino name on it has been top notch. I bet that they do the best they can with what they have....

i'd hate to hear what you thought about 'retro' (the 4 disc version), and for fun the 5 disc version..

later -1

jasonlg2008 wrote:

-1 wrote:

mark reed wrote: let's be blunt about it.

no more apologies : NO dont give a toss about tidying up their convoluted and immense discography

why don't you post your listing, and let's how great a job you do..

go ahead, lets see it..

come up with something better, do the licensing for the tracks, come up with a marketing plan, and then get them pressed..

can't do it?

i thought so..

Frankly speaking, that's a ridiculous and juvenile criticism. What about movie critics? Are they not allowed to give a bad review of a movie without also coming up with a rewrite of the script and a marketing and distribution plan?

No, but I'm guessing most movie critics have seen the movie before they reviewed it.

At the end of the day, It's a BONUS DISC, in the sense that this material is being suppied as a bonus to the remastered albums. In a round-about way, the bonus discs comprise what is essentially a remastered, updated-to-1990 version of Substance across 5 discs. How is this bad, exactly?

FFS, they don't owe us anything, which is what a lot of you folks seem to suggest they do. If you don't want it, don't buy it!

CTB

jasonlg2008 wrote:

Frankly speaking, that's a ridiculous and juvenile criticism.

see, the problem with your analogy, is that in this case, it is actually valid..

we can do it ourselves..

we(people on this board) actually have access to all the tracks that people are complaining about..

we do have promos, unreleased material, demos, live tracks, and everything else that people are complaining about...

there have been fan projects that did just this, one of them that i worked on, international 2, came out in 2003, and had all the single versions compiled on a 4cd set..... the majority were in CD quality, and for the vinyl/flexi/cassette tracks, we remastered them using professional software.... and it WAS ALL DONE FOR FREE..

there was never a charge, and there was free Artwork, notes, etc to.......

so don't tell me that i'm invalid in saying, 'why don't you do it yourself', because that's exactly what some of us are doing ...

i've already got 3/4cd versions of these remasters planned out for myself, and anyone else that is interested, that will include ALL THE MISSING MIXES/B-SIDES, and also include new live tracks / demos / rarities, and other bonus tracks....

you're welcome to join in, but i think as the case is here,

its a lot easier to complain about something, than it is to take intiative, and do it yourself..

caveat emptor..

later -1

-1 wrote: just give me all the original music, the way it was released, all the 7" edits, the 10" edits, the promo mixes, thats what i wanted, and i didn't get it obviously..

God, even I'd be bored of constant radio edits...

-1 wrote: don't even get me talking about the 808 state remasters, i could drive a truck through all the tracks they're missing on those remasters.... they cover what, about 30% of their mixes and b-sides? i don't think they were even trying, or were they? ... yeah, there's some cool stuff there, and they tried including a few promo mixes, but once again, it falls completely short...

No it doesn't - the demos you constantly seek are available to download, an exhaustive amount of remixes would send (even myself, who owns EVERYTHING they've ever released) to sleep, and there are samples that exist on other mixes that can't be released due to legal reasons...

You don't appear to realise that a CD of constant 7" edits wouldn't appeal to anyone but a small minority... And most record companies in their right mind wouldn't release a 25 CD boxset to cater for that minority...

Besides which, it would be excruciating listening...

All I was asking (and 99% of the people in the post), is a couple of rarities, a couple of rare remixes, and some of the more popular mixes out there - possibly interspersed with the odd live version...

If they should so wish to then make the rest available to download, then so be it...