NEW ORDER 2008 COLLECTOR'S EDITION DOUBLE CDs "The Factory Years"

This is a log file of complaints so far, and my intention is to update it as they arrive. The list is not finished yet - keep them coming!

The list below was originally referring to the October 2008 Rhino UK/Europe release, but THESE ERRORS STILL HAVEN'T BEEN FIXED FOR THE U.S. RELEASE (NOV. 11, 2008). WARNING - DO NOT BUY THESE YET, UNLESS YOU WANT FAULTY DISCS!!!

[orange]UPDATE (August 2009): We are still waiting for the replacement "corrected" CDs - the faulty ones are still on the shelves all over the world. Word from Rhino is that CD1 of "Movement" and "Low-life" are going to be identical to the first release, so the drop-outs in "The Him" and "Sunrise" will still be there. In the meantime, Rhino have re-issued the same albums on vinyl, with brand new errors (see below).[/orange]

[orange]UPDATE (May 2009): The band and label are working on re-sourcing and re-mastering all the CDs - new CDs will apparently be released (16th June?) 2009. Watch this space! It hasn't yet been confirmed whether the tracks have been properly mastered this time, or if there's been attempts to "repair" the faulty masters. I'd suggest do NOT pre-order these yet - wait until we have confirmation that they are definitely error-free.[/orange]

Number of confirmed errors: 300 and counting...(well, I suppose we have given up counting by now...) (all the glitches in "Fine Line" etc. not included - anybody got timings for these?)

By no means is this a definitive list - there's likely more errors that haven't yet been spotted. If you notice any, please say so! Exact time for glitches may be one or two seconds off, depending on what hardware you use. Warning: This list is not to be used for software de-noising or other types of "error correction". The point I wish to make is that more or less all of these tracks are completely unusable and need to be remastered from the correct (analogue/digital master) sources.

Some lessons one could learn from this:

1. It's not a good idea to record tracks from vinyl (or other poor quality sources) and try to pass them off as a "remastered" CD release.
2. It's a better idea to QA the products BEFORE they go out to the shops, than afterwards.
3. No wonder people turn to illegal downloads if this is the quality you get when you pay dearly for a "deluxe edition"

Movement (1981):

1. Dreams Never End
2. Truth
3. Senses
4. Chosen Time
5. I.C.B
6. The Him - Glitch at 5:25-5:26
7. Doubts Even Here
8. Denial

Movement - bonus disc:

1. Ceremony
2. Temptation - Version info missing from CDtext entry (click at 3:47 - unconfirmed)
3. In A Lonely Place (levels are maxed out which has caused clipping - unconfirmed)
4. Everything's Gone Green
5. Procession
6. Cries & Whispers (mislabelled as "Mesh" - unconfirmed) (glitches at 0:06, 0:07, 0:08, 0:28, 0:34, and 0:45 - unconfirmed)
7. Hurt - Glitches at 0:00, 0:37, 1:05, 1:07, 3:04, 3:48, 4:06, 6:19, 6:24, 7:07, 7:26, 7:59)
8. Mesh (mislabelled as "Cries & Whispers" - unconfirmed) - Evidence of scratched vinyl at 0:28, 0:30, 0:35, 0:37, 1:05, 1:07, 1:09, 1:12, 1:14, 1:19, 1:21, 1:40, 1:41, 2:08, 2:09, 2:17, 2:18, 2:19, 2:24, 2:26, 2:28, 2:33, 2:35. In addition, digital glitches at: 0:07, 0:20, 0:44, 0:58, 1:00, 1:25, 1:33, 1:37, 1:44, 1:47, 1:49, 1:56, 1:58, 2:12, 2:22, 2:37, 2:40, 2:49, 2:54, 2:56. Sudden convergence to mono at 1:35.
9. Ceremony (Alt. Version) -L/R channels swapped
10. Temptation - Version info missing from CDtext entry. Left channel crackle at 0:24 CDtext: "Artist" information is missingCDtext: "Title" information is missing

Power, Corruption and Lies (1983): 1, Age of consent 2, We all stand 3, The village 4, 586 ("abrupt ending", "drops the last 4 bass notes" - unconfirmed) 5, Your silent face 6, Ultraviolence 7, Ecstasy 8, Leave me alone

Power, Corruption and Lies - bonus disc: 1, Blue Monday (L/R pans 0:07[sudden], and between 0:19 and 2:24. At 2:24 it pans back again. Unconfirmed whether this is on the original 12 inch) 2, The Beach 3, Confusion - Clicks at 4:04 and 6:00 (Left channel click at 8:06 - unconfirmed whether this is on the original 12 inch) 4, Thieves like us CDtext track info says "ThEIves Like Us" 5, Lonesome Tonight (clicks at 0:40 and 0:59 - unconfirmed) 6, Murder - "Clicks" at 0:35, 1:08, 1:29, 1:43, 2:03, 2:31, 2:43, 2:50, 3:00, 3:19, 3:26 7, Thieves like us (instrumental) (click at 1:03 - unconfirmed) CDtext track info says "ThEIves Like Us" 8, Confusion (instrumental) CDtext: "Artist" information is missingCDtext: "Title" information is missing

Low-Life (1985) Digipak spine says "1983"

1. Love Vigilantes 4:19
2. The Perfect Kiss 4:50
3. This Time of Night 4:45
4. Sunrise 6:01 - Sudden volume drop in right channel at 2:36
5. Elegia 4:55
6. Sooner Than You Think 5:11
7. Sub-culture 4:58
8. Face Up 5:06 Overall: **the album tracks "sound like they've been mastered from the Centredate cd's and not the masters themselves" "this release is a massive disappointment. I even would advise anyone not to buy it" "Sleeve notes full of errors" "Did anyone proof read these?"**Low-Life – bonus disc
9. The Perfect Kiss 8:50 - Dubious sound quality, clicks, 'crackles', and pops at 0:07, 0:11, 0:16, 0:20, 0:23, 0:25, 0:30, 0:42, 0:50, 0:54, 1:08, 1:19, 1:23, 1:28, 1:32, 1:38, 1:56, 2:12, 2:32, 3:01, 3:03, 3:10, 3:11, 3:15, 3:24, 3:29, 3:40, 3:54, 3:57, 4:52, 4:59, 5:04, 5:06, 5:11, 5:13, 5:15, 5:18, 5:20, 5:27, 5:41, 6:08, 6:09, 6:37, 6:42, 6:44, 6:47, 6:51, 6:56, 7:12, 7:47, 7:49, 8:10, 8:15, 8:20, 8:36, and 8:38.
10. Subculture 7:27 - Glitches "run the whole way through it", namely at: 0:02, 0:04, 0:07, 0:08, 0:23, 0:48, 0:56, 1:24, 1:32, 1:58, 2:09, 2:47, 2:50, 3:13, 3:52, 3:55, 3:57, 3:59, 4:30, 4:35, 4:48, 4:55, 4:57, 5:04, 5:18, 5:46, 5:49, 6:38, and 6:52.
11. Shellshock - Not what it says: plays the Substance edit , not the full 12" version. Sounds "shitty, more bass but also no presence"
12. Shame Of The Nation
13. Elegia 17:30
14. Let’s Go - "Clicks" at 1:24 and 3:23*(at 1:31 it sounds like the tape slowed suddenly - unconfirmed)*
15. Salvation Theme 2:16
16. Dub Vulture 7:56 - Has "rumble" as if it were taken from vinyl. Clicks and pops at 0:07, 0:09, 0:14 .... CDtext: "Artist" information is missingCDtext: "Title" information is missingCDtext: track titles are missing Overall, "mastering for the bonus tracks is on the loud side" and clipping may be present. "The tracks on the bonus disc sound mostly awful". "I just can't believe this release passed the quality control of band, management and label."

Brotherhood (1986) 1, Paradise 2, weirdo 3, As it is when it was 4, Broken promise 5, Way of life 6, Bizarre love triangle 7, All day long 8, Angel dust 9, Every little counts 10, State of the nation (WTF? If they were to replicate the original LP track listing, this track should never have been included on the main disc)

Brotherhood - bonus disc 1, Bizarre love triangle (shep pettibone remix) - Version info missing from CDtext entry 2, 1963 - Clicks at 0:04, 0:25, 0:28, 0:30, 0:39, 0:46, 0:55, 1:14, 1:37, 1:56, 2:03, 2:07, 2:14, 2:42, 3:07, 3:29, 3:40, 3:54, 4:25, 4:32, 4:34, 4:40, 4:55, 5:00, 5:16, and 5:25. "Stutter" at 3:36. In addition, "the track has a lot of clipping" 3, True Faith (shep pettibone remix) 4, Touched by the hand of god - Dubious sound quality, clicks, pops and digital glitches at: 0:08, 0:13, 0:15, 0:23, 0:29, 0:39, 6:53, 6:58, and 7:00. 5, Blue Monday ‘88 6, Evil dust - "sounds like it was recorded directly from vinyl", "crackles or some sort of skip at the start" 7, True Dub - Not what it says: plays a 1994 Tall Paul "eschreamer dubbier" remix 8, Beach Buggy - Not what it says: plays Blue Monday 1988 (dub version) CDtext title information says "Disc 8 supplementary material"

Technique (1989) 1, Fine Time 2, All the way 3, love less (click at 0:04 - unconfirmed) 4, Round and round 5, Guilty partner 6, Run 7, Mr disco 8, vanishing point 9, Dream attack "Sleeve notes full of errors" "Did anyone proof read these?"

Technique - bonus disc 1, Don’t do it - Clicks and pops at 0:08, 0:18, 0:35, 0:40, 1:00, 2:25, 2:27, 3:01, 3:05, 3:07, 3:32, 4:12, 4:17, and 4:19. ( a skip near the beginning of the track - unconfirmed) 2, Fine line - A myriad of crackles and "jumps" 3, Round and round - CDtext track info says "Round round". Dubious sound quality, clicks, pops and digital glitches. "4 pops/irregular static within the first 20 seconds". Problems at 0:05, 0:07, 0:10, 0:16, 0:28, 0:32, 0:36, 0:41, 0:48, 0:52, 0:54, 0:56, 0:59, 1:05, 1:30, 1:39, 2:28, 2:30, 2:32, 2:41, 2:43, 2:52, 3:03, 3:15, 4:19, 5:18, 5:34, 6:32, and 6:34. 4, Best and marsh CDtext track info says "Best marsh"(dubious sound quality - unconfirmed) 5, Run 2 - Plays the extended version (not listed as such). Sound quality suggests it was "mastered" from vinyl. Clicks and pops at: 0:03, 0:10, 0:17, 0:24, 0:38, 0:41, 0:45, 0:50, 1:02, 1:13, 1:40, 2:02, 2:39, 3:10, 3:58, 4:05, 4:12, 4:15, 4:29, 4:42, 4:56, and 5:10. 6, MTO - Plays the "minus mix" (not listed as such) 7, Fine time (silk mix) (dubious sound quality - unconfirmed) 8, Vanishing point (instrumental) (dubious sound quality - unconfirmed) 9, world in motion (carabinieri mix)- Listed as "cabinieri". Sound quality suggests it was "mastered" from vinyl CDtext title information says "Bonus disc 4". Overall, "Be aware that the mastering here is horrible. There are audible pops and snaps on some of the bonus disc music indicating it was ripped directly from vinyl and NEVER cleaned up. You can get better bootleg MP3s than this mess."

Overall comments (applying to particular tracks and/or all of the above): "sounds like an MP3 vinyl rip with a lot of compression" "I'm not paying good cash for 'remasters' that in some places sound as if they were played on a cheap turntable through a computer sound card replete with crackles and skips."

NEW! Rhino released the same albums on vinyl in July 2009. Here is a list of the new errors they have introduced:

Low-Life (1985) The front cover says "Or der" instead of "Order". Oh dear. Was Peter Saville consulted? The incorrect typeface is being used throughout.

Brotherhood (1986) The sleeve and labels list the track "State Of The Nation", although this track isn't on the actual record (and of course it shouldn't be - it never was on the original Factory album).

NEW! "Corrected" CDs were finally issued by Rhino in August 2009, although only in some countries. Apparently, some but not all of the errors above were fixed.

[orange]UPDATE (February 2012): Apparently, the faulty discs were never recalled, which means that major stockists still carry old (faulty) stock, years later. However, corrected discs do exist, and even though they look identical to the faulty ones, there are ways to spot them: [/orange]

Movement (1981): Matrix no. on current disc 1: 256469369-4/1 V01 DAY*(same as 1st edition? possibly a version with drop-out in "The Him" still remaining? unconfirmed)* Matrix no. on corrected disc 2: 256469369-4/2.2 V02 LHB

Power, Corruption and Lies (1983): Matrix no. on corrected disc 1: 256469369-8/1.2 V01 IAV Matrix no. on corrected disc 2: 256469369-8/2.2 V02 MVP (possibly a version with errors still remaining? unconfirmed) Matrix no. on corrected disc 2: 256469369-8/2.3 V02 MVP 'on my replacement copy from Rhino, there is a new glitch/click audible at 1:41 in "The Beach."' (unconfirmed whether this refers to matrix 2.2 or 2.3)

Low-Life (1985): Matrix no. on corrected disc 1: 256469730-0/1.2 V02 OSF Matrix no. on corrected disc 2: 256469730-0/2.3 V02 IPZ Reported remaining errors: "One physical error is that the labels on the Low-life CDs are swapped." (unconfirmed whether all copies are like this or if it is a one-off) Edit: it seems to be a one-off

Brotherhood (1986): Matrix no. on current disc 1: 256469369-9/1 V01 NPX (same as 1st edition) Matrix no. on corrected disc 2: 256469369-9/2.3 V02 BTA

Technique (1989): Matrix no. on corrected disc 1: 256469369-7/1.2 V02 OUX Matrix no. on corrected disc 2: 256469369-7/2.3 V02 KWL*(possibly a version with errors still remaining? unconfirmed)* Matrix no. on corrected disc 2: 256469369-7/2.4 V02 CKY

All of the above: The corrected versions include two booklets. The second one, entitled "New Order Collector's editions - the Factory years", has track listings and recording details for all five albums (10 discs).

No slipcase included with the corrected versions - they are shinkwrapped and the sticker with barcode etc. is on the outside of the shrinkwrap. Beware - there are reports of faulty copies circulating with the extra booklet and no slipcase - this means that the only way to be 100% sure that you are getting corrected discs is to look at the matrix numbers!

Thanks to everybody who's reported errors - hopefully something constructive can come out of this. Edit: yes it did!

indiearchivist wrote: Movement (1981):

1. Dreams Never End
2. Truth
3. Senses (first beats missing - unconfirmed)

There's nothing wrong with Senses - it's always had the sudden start - it's the Peel Session that has a slightly different opening...

djdust wrote: There's nothing wrong with Senses - it's always had the sudden start - it's the Peel Session that has a slightly different opening...

Isn't that Truth you are thinking of? The "Senses" error was introduced with the Factory CD in the late eighties. The original LP has the full song.

Still awaiting confirmation whether the new release has the full song or not... EDIT: Pash (below) has confirmed that the intro has been restored.

Vocal bleed? Oh dear.

You are aware these are reMASTERS not reMIXES?

Any channel bleed you suddenly here is because it was always there and it's just become more audible now.

Unless of course you believe they fired up the original 2" 24track tape with all the original fx and other outboard and made a new mix that's EXACTLY like the one they did 25 years ago, apart from a little channel crosstalk.

"Thieves Like Us" was OK on "Substance". On 1994's "best of", it had this particular glitch introduced.

Don't think anybody expected them to mix everything again. To go back to the stereo mixdown master (or at least the best copy thereof, if the master is gone) should be adequate.

indiearchivist wrote:

djdust wrote: There's nothing wrong with Senses - it's always had the sudden start - it's the Peel Session that has a slightly different opening...

Isn't that Truth you are thinking of? The "Senses" error was introduced with the Factory CD in the late eighties. The original LP has the full song.

Still awaiting confirmation whether the new release has the full song or not...

Speaking of the Peel Sessions CD (SFPS 039), from Castle Communications Pic (the one with 'Truth' etc.), I noticed, that all tracks are full, but they do start on -00:00, which means, if you start the CD normally, the first second is left. So if they used this version, it might be not noticed by them.

cheers,

|cv|

'Cries And Whispers' has clicks and pops on the promo disc (and is called 'Mesh'), not sure if the release is any better.

indiearchivist wrote: The "Senses" error was introduced with the Factory CD in the late eighties. The original LP has the full song.

Really? Well, I can tell you that the new CD has the same beginning as the old CD so I assume it's still a fault then...

johnny james wrote: 'Cries And Whispers' has clicks and pops on the promo disc (and is called 'Mesh'), not sure if the release is any better.

Mine sounds absolutely fine...

Mesh is fucked too. Sounds like another vinyl rip to me.

Got mine Low-life yesterday and unfortunately I cant do anything else but agree on the poor sound quality. Warner should really consider to send out new "remastered" discs. This only means that I have to listen to my other stuff to have better sound quality which is the opposite reason why I bought the CD. Please Warner - act!

indiearchivist wrote: 6, Evil dust "sounds like it was recorded directly from vinyl", "crackles or some sort of skip at the start"

was this ever on vinyl? i know it's on the vcd, i have one at home...

hibster wrote:

was this ever on vinyl? i know it's on the vcd, i have one at home...

'twas originally on a comp LP called 'Funky Alternatives'...

Old Blue wrote:

hibster wrote:

was this ever on vinyl? i know it's on the vcd, i have one at home...

'twas originally on a comp LP called 'Funky Alternatives'...

and on both of these, wasn't it?

True Faith(FAC183R)

True Faith Australian 12inch

Tracey Spivey wrote:

Old Blue wrote:

hibster wrote:

was this ever on vinyl? i know it's on the vcd, i have one at home...

'twas originally on a comp LP called 'Funky Alternatives'...

and on both of these, wasn't it?

True Faith(FAC183R)

True Faith Australian 12inch

Nope. Though it was on another compilation album who's name I can't remember (saw it on ebay going for like £1, but I already had the Funky alternatives one).

404 error wrote: Nope. Though it was on another compilation album who's name I can't remember (saw it on ebay going for like £1, but I already had the Funky alternatives one).

Yup, the Funky Alternatives tracks have been reissued ad infitum on various compilations, going by the name of (and this list isn't exhaustive):

Alternator Alternator One Exclusive Alternatives Industrial Armageddon Industrial Dance Industrial Hazard Industrial Meltdown Industrial Virus - Killing Mixes Machines & Noise (3 volumes) Technicians Of Electronica

etc

The only New Order release it's been on is the True Faith CDV (until the remasters) - it wasn't on any of the True Faith vinyl releases.

404 error wrote:

Tracey Spivey wrote:

Old Blue wrote:

hibster wrote:

was this ever on vinyl? i know it's on the vcd, i have one at home...

'twas originally on a comp LP called 'Funky Alternatives'...

and on both of these, wasn't it?

True Faith(FAC183R)

True Faith Australian 12inch

Nope. Though it was on another compilation album who's name I can't remember (saw it on ebay going for like £1, but I already had the Funky alternatives one).

right, sorry. was thinking of the Paradise remix.

Back to Movement:

I can confirm that the intro to Senses has been restored, making the track complete when compared to the original Factory CD. One hint of silver lining in an otherwise cloudy sky...

Of all the remasters, I think the card stock used for the digipack and booklet looks the best. Pity about the vinyl pops on Cries & Whispers and Mesh though (and the reversed channels on the original Ceremony).

Didn't we also determine that Blue Monday is missing beats at the beginning?

indiearchivist wrote: Technique - bonus disc 1, Don’t do it (dubious sound quality - unconfirmed) 2, Fine line (dubious sound quality - unconfirmed)

all kinds of digital glitches in these 2. it's definitely not a "sourced from vinyl" pop or click. it's the digital glitches you hear in a poorly ripped CD that has scratches.

lamenting wrote:

indiearchivist wrote: Technique - bonus disc 1, Don’t do it (dubious sound quality - unconfirmed) 2, Fine line (dubious sound quality - unconfirmed)

all kinds of digital glitches in these 2. it's definitely not a "sourced from vinyl" pop or click. it's the digital glitches you hear in a poorly ripped CD that has scratches.

maybe they ripped them CDr made from mp3s got off of Soulseek from a mp3 made from a fan.

0_o wrote:

lamenting wrote:

indiearchivist wrote: Technique - bonus disc 1, Don’t do it (dubious sound quality - unconfirmed) 2, Fine line (dubious sound quality - unconfirmed)

all kinds of digital glitches in these 2. it's definitely not a "sourced from vinyl" pop or click. it's the digital glitches you hear in a poorly ripped CD that has scratches.

maybe they ripped them CDr made from mp3s got off of Soulseek from a mp3 made from a fan.

yeah i highly doubt that.

indiearchivist wrote:

6, Murder

There are clicks in Murder at:

1:29 1:43 2:43 2:50 3:00 3:19 3:26

Everything else on PCL is flawless so far.

Not having heard these, I wonder WTF is with the clicks?

Are we talking about digital overload clipping? Data glitches? Artifacts from the re-recording process? Or are they just clicks on the master tapes? Tapes do degrade, but loss of high frequencies and the dreaded "print-through" [1] are far more likely results of long term storage. New Order were, however, gadget obsessives, so I'd expect their masters would have been digital from quite early on.

[1] Print-through:It's that thing you get with old cassettes where you hear a sort of "ghost" of a song just before the actual song starts. The magetism from the bit of tape with the tune on it, "Prints through" to the blank tape which is lying against it on the next layer out on the spool. It's actually WORSE on professional recording formats because of the much higher magetic flux densities which "proper" tape uses....while it may take an expensive tape head to force music onto it in real time, the large trace it leaves behind prints through like a piss stain on light clothes over a few years.

(happens less with multitracks BTW, because 2" tape is usually backed, or is much thicker to give it structural stability, which reduces the effect greatly (magnetic fields vary as an inverse square, like gravity....so if the backing is 3 times as thick as normal 1/4" 2-track tape would be, making the distance 4 times as far between layers (1xthickness of ordinary tape backing+3xthicknesses of extra), the magetic field would be only 1/16th as great.Backing's not usually quite THAT thick, but the numbers worked better for an example. Mind you, I've seen 2" archive tapes in the beeb that looked like conveyor belts.

But Doc, even if there were glitches due to magnetic tape rubbing off on itself, you would think that Warner would fix those through a digital program before transfering to cd. A glitch like that should read on a graph quite easily and should be pretty easy to fix... They can over compress for loudness, but can't fix a small glitch? No excuse to Warner on that, no matter the reason, its just due to sloppy handling of the remasters...

EdelBrock wrote: But Doc, even if there were glitches due to magnetic tape rubbing off on itself, you would think that Warner would fix those through a digital program before transfering to cd. A glitch like that should read on a graph quite easily and should be pretty easy to fix... They can over compress for loudness, but can't fix a small glitch? No excuse to Warner on that, no matter the reason, its just due to sloppy handling of the remasters...

Clicks are, as I said, not TOO likely to come from the tape, dropouts yes, clicks, no. They do happen but the nature of the medium doesn't lend itself to clickyness as a mode of failure.

You can bodge a repair on any glitch or click in seconds with any digital editor (or a razorblade, an edit block and 25 years in the BBC)....but doing a job that will pass intensive listening on headphones.....that takes talent and real effort, I should know, I'm complete wank at it (I've spent hours, even days, battling clicks on drum attacks or on bass tracks that no other fucker can hear....there's a couple of howlers on both my C2 entries).

Aries wrote: Didn't we also determine that Blue Monday is missing beats at the beginning?

No - Blue Monday is complete.

Can this thread be stickied?

It seems more constructive than the endless bleating about protesting at Warners etc. It may even lead to the discs being fixed if the specific errors are pointed out in detail.

Just wanted to add, i think it was mentioned that Murder had a few errors too. There is a crackle at 2:03 but i think that's on the original. Anyone else spotted anything? Hey i think it might be ok!! Bloody hell!

johnny james wrote: Can this thread be stickied?

It seems more constructive than the endless bleating about protesting at Warners etc. It may even lead to the discs being fixed if the specific errors are pointed out in detail.

I pointed out on page 1 all the errors in Murder:

1:29 1:43 2:43 2:50 3:00 3:19 3:26

Hello...haven't ever posted on a New Order forum before, but the oldest guys here may remember me from the Ceremony mailing list over ten years ago :-)

Ok...these remasters...

1. I went to Zavvi, bought all five
2. I listened to them
3. I went back to Zavvi, demanded a refund, and got it

Now if more people did that, I think it could possibly have an impact - I mean who are Zavvi going to return them to? I've officially returned them as faulty - and stated that the discs have several skips, crackles and pops.

Or perhaps no-one will give a fuck. I don't anyway, I would have loved official discs with those tracklistings, but as far as I'm concerned now they don't exist. My old Factory CDs which were to go on the sale pile, will breathe another day.

I love New Order ripoffs. I thoroughly enjoyed having money hoovered out of my pockets for The Best of, The Rest Of, and Singles (I just didn't see the point of International).

But the remasters... absolute bollocks. And they can keep the London years too unless they're recorded properly.

Brian

indiearchivist wrote: (all the glitches in "Mesh", "C&W", "Perfect Kiss" etc., not included - anybody got exact timings for these?)

for Mesh:

:06 :07 :08 :28 :34 :45

these are very faint clicks.

there are too many in C&W to list. they range from a faint click to a low thud.

Does '586' have an abrupt ending? I downloaded the remastered version (I have it on pre-order cause I'm in the US), and it drops the last 4 bass notes. Maybe I just downloaded a bad copy.

::EDIT:: Just finished listening to "Your Silent Face", has the same issue as well, I'm pretty sure its just a bad rip.

from the uk brotherhood bonus disc (the tracks are the same as the promo)

for 1963 : clicks at

1min:14.408sec 1min:37.732sec 2min:07.976sec 2min:42.870sec

3min:36.282sec - stutter

by the way, the track has a lot of clipping, the peaks go off the top for both channels..

(i'll list the rest shortly)

later -1

Does the PlasTIc cover keep the DUST out?

djdust wrote:

indiearchivist wrote: Movement (1981):

1. Dreams Never End
2. Truth
3. Senses (first beats missing - unconfirmed)

There's nothing wrong with Senses - it's always had the sudden start - it's the Peel Session that has a slightly different opening...

I'd just like to publicly retract this post and express my utter astonishment that I *never* realised that the original CD version of "Senses" had the very beginning lopped off but I flipping do now after comparing old and new side by side! Boy, do I feel stoopid right now.... ;)

johnny james wrote: 'Cries And Whispers' has clicks and pops on the promo disc (and is called 'Mesh'), not sure if the release is any better.

These two songs have been mixed before On the b side of the original 12" of Everything's gone green' where they first appear. C&W is the first track followed by Mesh.

On my CD copy of 'Substance'only the first of these tracks is included on disc 2 and is called 'Mesh'

This mistake(?)seems to be repeated on the bonus disc with 'Movement' on these remasters. Now I'm not sure which is which.

C&W, first line is "below the surface..."

At least that's what they said when Retro came out, though I'm beginning to think even the band don't know any more.

It was also referred to as C&W on setlists in '83 when it reappeared live for a while.

BBC article with Hooky at least acknowledging problems

Somebody needs to disabuse him of the notion that louder=better, that's what the volume knob is for. If they're referring to what the booklets identified (neworder.com) that isn't up...I suspect they're talking about NOOL.

Contact Warner

Warner say that if any of the fans want to contact them about the quality of the New Order re-issues, then they can email this address:

Neworder.d2c@warnermusic.com

To see what fans have said in response to the poor quality re-issues, visit the New Order official site.

'Let's Go' - 1'31 sounds like the tape slowed suddenly (on the promo). The pitch seems a little wobbly to me after that point.

johnny james wrote: C&W, first line is "below the surface..."

At least that's what they said when Retro came out, though I'm beginning to think even the band don't know any more.

It was also referred to as C&W on setlists in '83 when it reappeared live for a while.

Have to bring this classic from Hooky up again at this point....... at NOOL Day he was side stage with me while Re: Order were playing, midway through Cries and Whispers he says to me "what the fook's this? This isn't one of ours, is it Procession?" :)

Priceless TJ!

The Happy One wrote: BBC article with Hooky at least acknowledging problems

Somebody needs to disabuse him of the notion that louder=better, that's what the volume knob is for. If they're referring to what the booklets identified (neworder.com) that isn't up...I suspect they're talking about NOOL.

Contact Warner

Warner say that if any of the fans want to contact them about the quality of the New Order re-issues, then they can email this address:

Neworder.d2c@warnermusic.com

To see what fans have said in response to the poor quality re-issues, visit the New Order official site.

dang,

its about time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we need to get everyone on this board, and anyone that has ever liked new order to email them..

and be sure to include a copy of the 'log file' in your post..

be civil, and explain the problem, don't yell, or curse, just explain we would the errors fixed, or some kind of trade-in program, or money back..

thanks again for the info..

later -1

Pash wrote:

Aries wrote: Didn't we also determine that Blue Monday is missing beats at the beginning?

No - Blue Monday is complete.

Complete with right channel DROP OUT once again like the Substance version. You can hear it at 2:24.

Re-Member wrote:

Complete with right channel DROP OUT once again like the Substance version. You can hear it at 2:24.

seriously, maybe the promo version was OK?

i checked it agains the 'substance' version, and still couldn't hear it, or see it in either one..

i just don't know where this error is...

i've checked it several times, and cant find.. sorry..

later -1

-1 wrote:

Re-Member wrote:

Complete with right channel DROP OUT once again like the Substance version. You can hear it at 2:24.

seriously, maybe the promo version was OK?

i checked it agains the 'substance' version, and still couldn't hear it, or see it in either one..

i just don't know where this error is...

i've checked it several times, and cant find.. sorry..

later -1

It's not a dropout. It's more a shift in panning to the left a little.

-1 wrote:

The Happy One wrote: BBC article with Hooky at least acknowledging problems

Somebody needs to disabuse him of the notion that louder=better, that's what the volume knob is for. If they're referring to what the booklets identified (neworder.com) that isn't up...I suspect they're talking about NOOL.

Contact Warner

Warner say that if any of the fans want to contact them about the quality of the New Order re-issues, then they can email this address:

Neworder.d2c@warnermusic.com

To see what fans have said in response to the poor quality re-issues, visit the New Order official site.

dang,

its about time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we need to get everyone on this board, and anyone that has ever liked new order to email them..

and be sure to include a copy of the 'log file' in your post..

be civil, and explain the problem, don't yell, or curse, just explain we would the errors fixed, or some kind of trade-in program, or money back..

thanks again for the info..

later -1

I emailed yesterday and included the "44 error-file" with it ... hopefully everyone will do.

lamenting wrote:

-1 wrote:

Re-Member wrote:

Complete with right channel DROP OUT once again like the Substance version. You can hear it at 2:24.

seriously, maybe the promo version was OK?

i checked it agains the 'substance' version, and still couldn't hear it, or see it in either one..

i just don't know where this error is...

i've checked it several times, and cant find.. sorry..

later -1

It's not a dropout. It's more a shift in panning to the left a little.

The Blue Monday 'drop-out' is indeed a shift in the panning to the left instead of a serious drop-out: It has the same loudness in the left- and right channel according to my Kenwood! Thanks for sorting that one out.

Ally wrote: Found a skip at 5:25-26 during The Him on Movement.

Can anyone confirm this on another copy?

It doen't skip there on my copy.

I'm can't listen to these remasters now I'm expecting some new error skip or glitch any second.

BOLLOCKS

I'm now slightly confused as to which is the original Blue Monday. The one with the extra bassdrum at the start and one less bar of intro (International,Singles) or the other one which has no extra bassdrum and four full bars before the synth starts (Retro, PCL Bonus disk and Substance). I assume its the latter but what is that all about?

lamenting wrote:

-1 wrote:

Re-Member wrote:

Complete with right channel DROP OUT once again like the Substance version. You can hear it at 2:24.

seriously, maybe the promo version was OK?

i checked it agains the 'substance' version, and still couldn't hear it, or see it in either one..

i just don't know where this error is...

i've checked it several times, and cant find.. sorry..

later -1

It's not a dropout. It's more a shift in panning to the left a little.

Thats what I thought..

MrDisco wrote:

Ally wrote: Found a skip at 5:25-26 during The Him on Movement.

Can anyone confirm this on another copy?

It doen't skip there on my copy.

I'm can't listen to these remasters now I'm expecting some new error skip or glitch any second.

Yep, there's a little glitch right there on my new CD too. Geez.

Do these new discs come with the all necessary software required for nitpicking ?

No software required. Just put your headphones on, "Perfect Kiss" 12" version, fire away, and you'll start wondering whether you forgot to switch the popcorn machine off...

djdust wrote:

MrDisco wrote:

Ally wrote: Found a skip at 5:25-26 during The Him on Movement.

Can anyone confirm this on another copy?

It doen't skip there on my copy.

I'm can't listen to these remasters now I'm expecting some new error skip or glitch any second.

Yep, there's a little glitch right there on my new CD too. Geez.

Can anyone compare with the original CD to see if it is a source defect? (would seem a useful exercise since this seems to be the first sound defect reported on one of the non-bonus discs)

Can anyone compare with the original CD to see if it is a source defect? (would seem a useful exercise since this seems to be the first sound defect reported on one of the non-bonus discs)

The original CD is definitely fine - it's just the new version of "The Him" that's glitched - right at the end....

Colin Simpson wrote: Do these new discs come with the all necessary software required for nitpicking ?

Hey mate, if you're not gonna add anything constructive, why not just say nothing and leave the rest of us alone to discuss it, ok?

djdust wrote: The original CD is definitely fine - it's the new version of "The Him" that's glitched.

Colin Simpson wrote: Do these new discs come with the all necessary software required for nitpicking ?

Hey mate, if you're not gonna add anything constructive, why not just say nothing and leave the rest of us alone to discuss it, ok?

Maybe Warner can have a free download of software which will let everybody remaster these songs to their own standards. DYI.

djdust wrote:

Can anyone compare with the original CD to see if it is a source defect? (would seem a useful exercise since this seems to be the first sound defect reported on one of the non-bonus discs)

The original CD is definitely fine - it's just the new version of "The Him" that's glitched - right at the end....

Sad. Screwing up the original discs brings things to a new level of incompetance.

djdust wrote:

MrDisco wrote:

Ally wrote: Found a skip at 5:25-26 during The Him on Movement.

Can anyone confirm this on another copy?

It doen't skip there on my copy.

I'm can't listen to these remasters now I'm expecting some new error skip or glitch any second.

Yep, there's a little glitch right there on my new CD too. Geez.

sorry,

again, i've checked both the original cd, which has no problem,

and on the version i have, (the promo), i can't find any glitches at all.. no skips/stutters, drop-outs, my version on the remaster seems to be fine..

i don't know, maybe a note seems to be repeating, and it sounds like an error?

maybe some copies got out that were bad?

later -1

greeneyes1 wrote:

djdust wrote:

Can anyone compare with the original CD to see if it is a source defect? (would seem a useful exercise since this seems to be the first sound defect reported on one of the non-bonus discs)

The original CD is definitely fine - it's just the new version of "The Him" that's glitched - right at the end....

Sad. Screwing up the original discs brings things to a new level of incompetance.

maybe,

but i've never scrutinized the originals, and only now am i hearing all the problems, and issues that already existed...

the remasters have made it possible to go back and do a comparison, to see if it really is a problem..

or if it's always been there...

don't be so quick to judge.

later -1

0_o wrote:

Maybe Warner can have a free download of software which will let everybody remaster these songs to their own standards. DYI.

there's already tons of free software out there that already do this..

you can get trial versions of soundforge, or if you want an open source program..

look for 'audacity'... and there are older programs too like cooledit 2000..

how much do you really want to fix? it's up to you... check out the vinyl mastering thread for more ideas..

later -1

we shouldn't have to fix anything.

sure, i have a copy of izotope ozone and sonar 8 and could go into my own collection, and (sadly) do a comparable job mastering my old new order lps and singles from 80s cds, on my studio monitors...

but you would THINK that would be Warner's and Hook's and Sumner's job.

i mean, if they want us to actually give them cash.

my cash is going towards a new .rex sound library. screw em. new order has finally become everything that when they started, they hated. full circle. perfect.

BOYCOTT!

djdust [quote user="Colin Simpson wrote: Do these new discs come with the all necessary software required for nitpicking ?

Hey mate, if you're not gonna add anything constructive, why not just say nothing and leave the rest of us alone to discuss it, ok?

So this is a 'constructive' thread ??

My mistake.....

-1 wrote:

don't be so quick to judge.

later -1

I agree, but, someone indicated "The original CD is definitely fine - it's just the new version of "The Him" that's glitched - right at the end...." and it's been promoted to a confirmed glitch on the original post.

I guess someone with both the original and non-promo remastered needs to do an A/B comparison if this is still in doubt.

If there was an error on the original Factory CD, why would that be an excuse? Isn't this the sort of thing "remastering" is meant to correct?

A/D converters have come a long way since 1985.

this thread has a problem in the posts...

later -1

In my opinion pointing out timings with mistakes is useless as some tracks are full of them. They already are completely destroyed. Anyone at Warners should hear "Mesh" and find ANY reason why this product has been released to the public. Who was the guy at the mastering desks? I won't complain about the tracklist, it is what it is, nobody will ever be happy. Maybe we should give Warners the list of songs which are DEFINITELY unacceptable and have to be replaced with new mastered ones. These are in my opinion:

Movement Bonus CD: Mesh: A joke. If you can't do better from the source tape, remaster from the 1991 CD single "Everything'S Gone Green".

P,C & L Bonus CD: Thieves Like Us: really bad master, replace it with the one on International.

Low-life: Sunrise on Disc one: Fix channel drop out Perfect Kiss, Subculture & Dubvulture 12"es: If you can't find a digital source, buy a clean copy of eBay, wash it with a record cleaning machine and digitize properly Shellshock: replace with the full length 12" or at least remaster the soundtrack CD version with the 4th verse.

Brotherhood Bonus CD: 1963: Use the Substance CD if no digital source available. TBTHOG 12": Again, a joke. Replace it with the International remaster. True Dub: Real True Dub please, FAC 183R, Side B.

Technique Bonus CD: Don't Do It: available on the FACD 223 single. remaster from there. Fine Line: use Canadian CD single. Round & Round 12": use FACD 263. Best & Marsh: already on RETRO disc 5 (copy & paste) Fine Time (Silk Mix): RETRO Disc 3, already remastered. Run 2, MTO: another try from 12" World in Motion (Carabinieri Mix): use promo FACD 293R.

Get a few collectors here involved who easily can provide the source material and replace the original CDs with new ones for free as soon as possible. Stop selling this bunch of crap immediately. The only way to save this embarrassing disaster.

joe davola wrote: In my opinion pointing out timings with mistakes is useless as some tracks are full of them. They already are completely destroyed. Anyone at Warners should hear "Mesh" and find ANY reason why this product has been released to the public. Who was the guy at the mastering desks? I won't complain about the tracklist, it is what it is, nobody will ever be happy. Maybe we should give Warners the list of songs which are DEFINITELY unacceptable and have to be replaced with new mastered ones. These are in my opinion:

Movement Bonus CD: Mesh: A joke. If you can't do better from the source tape, remaster from the 1991 CD single "Everything'S Gone Green".

P,C & L Bonus CD: Thieves Like Us: really bad master, replace it with the one on International.

Low-life: Sunrise on Disc one: Fix channel drop out Perfect Kiss, Subculture & Dubvulture 12"es: If you can't find a digital source, buy a clean copy of eBay, wash it with a record cleaning machine and digitize properly Shellshock: replace with the full length 12" or at least remaster the soundtrack CD version with the 4th verse.

Brotherhood Bonus CD: 1963: Use the Substance CD if no digital source available. TBTHOG 12": Again, a joke. Replace it with the International remaster. True Dub: Real True Dub please, FAC 183R, Side B.

Technique Bonus CD: Don't Do It: available on the FACD 223 single. remaster from there. Fine Line: use Canadian CD single. Round & Round 12": use FACD 263. Best & Marsh: already on RETRO disc 5 (copy & paste) Fine Time (Silk Mix): RETRO Disc 3, already remastered. Run 2, MTO: another try from 12" World in Motion (Carabinieri Mix): use promo FACD 293R.

Get a few collectors here involved who easily can provide the source material and replace the original CDs with new ones for free as soon as possible. Stop selling this bunch of crap immediately. The only way to save this embarrassing disaster.

I concur.

michael preda wrote:

joe davola wrote: In my opinion pointing out timings with mistakes is useless as some tracks are full of them. They already are completely destroyed. Anyone at Warners should hear "Mesh" and find ANY reason why this product has been released to the public. Who was the guy at the mastering desks? I won't complain about the tracklist, it is what it is, nobody will ever be happy. Maybe we should give Warners the list of songs which are DEFINITELY unacceptable and have to be replaced with new mastered ones. These are in my opinion:

Movement Bonus CD: Mesh: A joke. If you can't do better from the source tape, remaster from the 1991 CD single "Everything'S Gone Green".

P,C & L Bonus CD: Thieves Like Us: really bad master, replace it with the one on International.

Low-life: Sunrise on Disc one: Fix channel drop out Perfect Kiss, Subculture & Dubvulture 12"es: If you can't find a digital source, buy a clean copy of eBay, wash it with a record cleaning machine and digitize properly Shellshock: replace with the full length 12" or at least remaster the soundtrack CD version with the 4th verse.

Brotherhood Bonus CD: 1963: Use the Substance CD if no digital source available. TBTHOG 12": Again, a joke. Replace it with the International remaster. True Dub: Real True Dub please, FAC 183R, Side B.

Technique Bonus CD: Don't Do It: available on the FACD 223 single. remaster from there. Fine Line: use Canadian CD single. Round & Round 12": use FACD 263. Best & Marsh: already on RETRO disc 5 (copy & paste) Fine Time (Silk Mix): RETRO Disc 3, already remastered. Run 2, MTO: another try from 12" World in Motion (Carabinieri Mix): use promo FACD 293R.

Get a few collectors here involved who easily can provide the source material and replace the original CDs with new ones for free as soon as possible. Stop selling this bunch of crap immediately. The only way to save this embarrassing disaster.

I concur.

MAkes sense to me although, by all accounts the bonus discs arent remastered and are not advertised as such...

I compared the original factory Movement with the remaster. The glitch at the end of The Him on the remaster is not on the factory disc.

Colin Simpson wrote:

MAkes sense to me although, by all accounts the bonus discs arent remastered and are not advertised as such...

Well the are 'remastered' in some sense because compared to their original release (on cd in many cases) they are much worse. Not advertising them as 'remastered' would lead one to expect them to be exactly the same as the original release, not worse. They've been 'demastered'.

Incidentally I was just listening to the WIM carib-wotsit mix as featured on the 'connected 90s' compilation released just a few months ago, and could have sworn it sounds noticeably better than the one on the technique bonus disk, with no pops or clicks at the points where the latter one has them. Dunno if that one was from (better) vinyl or the original master, but what is going on there? If the compilation makers could master it properly why couldn't WB just a few months later? Baffling.

Pash wrote: I compared the original factory Movement with the remaster. The glitch at the end of The Him on the remaster is not on the factory disc.

Thanks for confirming.

I was just wondering how they managed to fuck this up so much when retro seems to be fine. They obviously had the original tapes for some of that or at least cleaned some vinyl.

blunt laser wrote: I was just wondering how they managed to fuck this up so much when retro seems to be fine. They obviously had the original tapes for some of that or at least cleaned some vinyl.

Nearly all of the tracks on RETRO were mastered from digital sources that had already been put on CD, which is why they sound only louder with different equalization.

Based on my experience of transferring vinyl to disc, the bonus disc tracks sound like they got butchered from an "auto pop removal" feature. I have an early version of Adobe Audition and there's an effect that scans the track for pops and clicks, but ends up removing chunks of data from the source to get rid of them. This results in the digital glitches and skips you hear in many of the bonus tracks. The better way to have done this is to fade a track in, equalize the high end out to remove the hiss, then sit through the whole track with headphones and manually zoom in and delete the pops by looking at the wave forms so it doesn't sound glitched.

A few years ago I've spent nearly an hour cleaning up The Jesus and Mary Chain's version of "Vegetable Man" from vinyl, only now to find it on the new B-Sides box set, haha.

Hey, I see the forthcoming JAMC box set is a Rhino/Warner Brothers release... I was looking forward to it and was gonna pre-order it, but after what's happened, I think I'll wait for some reviews first!

Wonder what source they've managed to source Vegetable Man from!

£50 Guy wrote: Hey, I see the forthcoming JAMC box set is a Rhino/Warner Brothers release... I was looking forward to it and was gonna pre-order it, but after what's happened, I think I'll wait for some reviews first!

Wonder what source they've managed to source Vegetable Man from!

I've already got a copy and it sounds great. The band were indeed directly involved with the project, unlike New Order. The demos are a little muddy sounding, but that's the nature of 20+ year old demo tapes. Vegetable Man sounds flawless, though there is a little hiss at the end of the track which might be due to the heavy distortion pedals rather than a source tape issue. Even the remastered version of Psychocandy couldn't clean up the fuzz from all those distortion pedals.

£50 Guy wrote: Hey, I see the forthcoming JAMC box set is a Rhino/Warner Brothers release... I was looking forward to it and was gonna pre-order it, but after what's happened, I think I'll wait for some reviews first!

Wonder what source they've managed to source Vegetable Man from!

It's fantastic sounding.

Especially the remastered Psychocandy-era stuff. And while it's not "-1" complete, if you've got this and the remastered albums (which have videos included), it's a great career overview for casual and completeist alike. Like you guys, Vegetable Man was the track I was most interested in and it didn't disappoint (though the vinyl still sounds better--less tinny).

Hi, I'm new to the board, a JD/NO fan for years. I e-mailed Warner too, hopefully everyone here will.

However, in case nothing constructive comes from this (i.e. replacement-discs), which pressings of the original CD's is the best buy (soundwise): The original Factory, the Qwest or the Centredate ones? I used to have the Centredate ones, but these did show signs of brown discolouration and so-called "CD-rot" in the long run.

fonzie9 wrote: Hi, I'm new to the board, a JD/NO fan for years. I e-mailed Warner too, hopefully everyone here will.

However, in case nothing constructive comes from this (i.e. replacement-discs), which pressings of the original CD's is the best buy (soundwise): The original Factory, the Qwest or the Centredate ones? I used to have the Centredate ones, but these did show signs of brown discolouration and so-called "CD-rot" in the long run.

Dunno the answer, but I can say that of well over a 1000 cds, the only one I've ever had get that cd oxidation thing was a centredate one - Republic, which went brown very quickly. That might be the only centredate cd I have, not sure - are all the London releases centredate? Maybe they do have manufacturing problems?

Here's my contribution to the horrorlist of errors:

Soundwise:

1-9) ticks heard in TBTHOG at 0.08-0.13-0.15-0.23-0.29-0.39-6.53-6.58-7.00 10) Loveless: tick at 0.04 (can anyone confirm this?) *Update: this is on the original Factory disc*

Bonusdisc CDtext errors (my CDplayer can read this, can anybody confirm all of the below errors?)

Movement: 11) Track 6 CDtext reads "Mesh", disc reads "C&W" 12) Track 8 CDtext reads "Cries and whispers", disc reads "Mesh" 13) No title entered in CDtext 14) No artist entered in CDtext 15) Temptation does not add 7" in CDtext, other tracks do have this additional info 16) Temptation does not add 12" in CDtext, other tracks do have this additional info

P, C & L: 17) No title entered in CDtext 18) No artist entered in CDtext 19) Track 4 CDtext reads "Theives like us" 20) Track 7 CDtext reads "Theives like us" (instrumental)

Low-life: 21) No CDtext information entered at all

Brotherhood: * Note: Title info reads "Bonus disc 8" which is the only correct CDtext title entry of all 5 bonusdiscs*

22. Bizarre love triangle does not add (shep pettibone remix), other tracks do have this additional info

Technique: 23) Title info reads Bonus disc 4, which is incorrect (should be disc 10), but is in consistency with the Rhino spine-numbers:

Movement reads 2564693694 Technique reads 2564693697 (thus Disc 4 in CDtext is incorrect, should be disc 10) P, C & L reads 2564693698 Brotherhood reads 2564693699 (thus Disc 8 in CDtext is correct) Low-life reads 2564693700

24. track 3 reads "Round round" in CDtext
25. track 4 reads "Best marsh" in CDtext

fonzie9 wrote:

10. Loveless: tick at 0.04 (can anyone confirm this?)

This click is on the original Factory CD and vinyl...

Pash wrote:

fonzie9 wrote:

10. Loveless: tick at 0.04 (can anyone confirm this?)

This click is on the original Factory CD and vinyl...

Thanks for checking!

I was so excited about this project... But I guess I have to wait for sometime...

Japanese Warner Music has posponded their release date for

"TBA"

Does anybody know about American release ones like? I wrote Rhino but no response.

WB Japan are doing the right thing. Hopefully they'll be released once they have been properly remastered.

They are still listed for November 11 release in the US - if they really are in the shops next week, I'd be surprised if they didn't have the same errors as the UK release. I wouldn't spend a cent on these, at least not until there is confirmation that they are new, fresh, error-free masters.

I guarantee that they won't be fixed if released next week in the states. It will take them the rest of the year at least to re-source and remaster them all.

I emailed Dutch TV text services and they placed this:

Anyone who wants me to translate it? Believe me, it contains the same info as documented in this thread ;-)

CD text errors TECHNIQUE bonus disc: Title reads 'Disc 4 Suplementary material'?? Lowlife bonus disc:No text at all. PCL bonus disc:No title Movement bonus disc:No title. Mesh and cries and whispers reversed. Brotherhood bonus disc:Title reads 'Disc 8 supplementary material'??

None of the origianl album cds have CD text, i don;t know if that is intentional or not.

JAMC box set is superb well worth the money (if you're a fan!) Unreleased tracks, different viersions, rare b sides etc. Nicley packaged well done the Mary Chain

I just picked up the US Low-Life Collector's Edition at lunch and have been listening to the FLAC's that I ripped from the Disc. After reading all the complaints and not really hearing anything, I popped in the disc itself, put on my Grado SR-60s and you're all correct...much of the bonus disc sounds like shit. Particularly the Perfect Kiss extended version...tinny, pops, clicks, ugly. So apparently the US versions are going to be just like the UK versions. The drop-out in Sunrise is there as well. I guess I'll be removing the rest of these from my Xmas list. Sad.

I want my $20 back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/news/20081010\_hook.shtml

hooky replies, sort of

randall fairbrook wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/news/20081010\_hook.shtml

hooky replies, sort of

old news ;-)

I am so sad this remasters are out, that I felt the need to register to talk about my dissatisfaction. As a New Order fan since 1989, I feel extremely disappointed with the quality of the remasters. Things like this shouldn't happen, but here they are, and who to blame now?

Not that remasters are good, in fact, if you ReplayGain the original tracks against the remastered ones, you will find out that the album versions are lacking a bit more of dynamic range. This is normal in remastering scene, because the remasters are inevitably louder, even by a few dB's, thus louder, less dynamic range, when compared to the originals with leveled volume.

So, do you know what I think fans should do? I think we should make a torrent and replicate this remasters, with all CD versions fans have, everything that has been collected among us. When I say "replicate", it is not to drop the songs into Adobe Audition and mess with the tracks, but leave them intact, as original, lossless. The only work here is to group the songs and follow the tracklisting, of course, applying the corrections for mislabelled tracks.

This would be THE PACKAGING!, can you imagine? The best version available of a New Order song, in one single torrent. For example, I have never seen Perfect Kiss (Extended Version 8:42) on CD. But probably someone ripped so well that could outperform any other vinyl/mp3 version available, even from the record company. Not to mention that the tracks would be original, untouched, picked up from the right sources! Would be a dream! All dynamic range still there, maintained and preserved. No remastering crap! No loud to death music!

It's up for us fans, disrespected by the company label, to overcome this, let's show them we've got voice, and we are to be respected. RE-RELEASE THIS REMASTERS PROPERLY or "NEW ORDER DELUXE BOX" will be out on our own!!! This is what happens in democracy. They need to give us goodies, and we pay money, but not this crap. We do our own if we are to accept this crap.

I was waiting for so long to grasp many of the songs in this remastered set in CD version, and so disappointed now. I bet you are feeling like me.

We don't need to involve this site. All contact can be done by email. And the torrent trackers are very very popular, it would be easy to find.

DON'T GET ME WRONG, THIS IS JUST A FAIR SUGGESTION. SPECIALLY TO ONES WHO BOUGHT THE REMASTERS, OR OWN THE DISCOGRAPHY ON VINYL OR CASSETTE AGES AGO ( LIKE ME ).

Do you guys think Warner is going to fix this? Possibly offering a replacement program?

I don't know why they didn't do a better job with these. What pisses me off the most is that they didn't try remastering them in 5.1, like the Talking Heads box set.

Rhino Records called me back today, after having left a phone message with their customer service department.

He did confirm that the label and band are sorting out the problem and that it'll be done shortly after the holidays. He said Rhino offers their apology and gave me the option of either (a) returning the albums now for a full refund or online store credit or, (b) hang on to the albums for now and he'd call me back when the details/plans are finalized, sometime in January, in all likelihood.

I just decided to hang onto them for now; I've already spent the money, so I may as well have them sitting on the shelf.

At any rate, I'm very pleased with Rhino's response. Bright side is that we'll have great, fixed remasters in a few months' time!

That's fantastic (and hopefully true) news...I was able to return my copy of Low-Life to Newbury Comics in Boston, no questions asked. I did bring along a copy of the Hooky article just in case, but they were pretty understanding. I look forward to dropping $100 on all of these (fixed) sets in the new year.

This is great news!

If I may say that I have to be doubtful that all this mess can be fixed (re-remastered, repackaged, reprinted, and repressed) in a couple of months. We are talking 10 discs worth of work. I would guess this could take at least 6 months/1 year.

I'm afraid of returning everything and then they decide it's too expensive to fix all this and scrap the whole thing.

I've seen this happen before.

Maybe just being paranoid.

I hold little hope for a fix. It's already an ocean of money to remaster, press, print and distribute it world wide. I think the best bet of a label company is to wait for the dust to settle down and leave us fans into forgotten fog. Proof of this is that they do not speak or say anything officially, and if it's not like that, it's hard for people to come after them later and demand solutions. Everything is easier unofficially said, because things can turn any other way around. I bet that not even the band is going after a fix for the fans. Remasters, welcome!

Well, as word got out about these errored remasters...this totally sucks BTW, was looking forward to them for years...Rhino's usually good with these fixes, but I have a feeling this will take a while, MINIMUM March, 2009...I can wait tho.

On 2 related notes, that JAMC box is AWESOME, the track selection (a 4-disc expanded "Barbed Wire Kisses" really) and that packaging is really stunning. Another is regarding Oklahoma City, US band the Flaming Lips, who are signed to Warners...what happened was Rhino/Warner a few years ago reissued their 1999 masterpiece "The Soft Bulletin" as a CD/DVD with 5.1 surround. The DVD part was perfect but the thing is, the CD portion was supposed to be the redone one with the original tracklisting as the band intended, fixed channels, remastered and all...nope, the original inferior CD was included!!!! So, word got out and the BAND had their own exchange program!!! Basically, you keep the package, just send the inferior CD in an envelope to a specific PO Box and the corrected one would be exchanged. Well, it took 3-4 months, but the Lips did send me a corrected CD along with a HANDWRITTEN note of apologies and thanks from bandmember Michael Ivins on lined looseleaf paper, written in red ink!!!! How cool is that???? I folded it up and put it inside the CD booklet for safekeeping.

Now, I don't think Hooky would send handwritten notes, but I'm sure he is bothered by the situation at hand, as is Rhino...they are musicologists, of course they would care, and this situation would be resolved with care.

Poptone wrote: Rhino Records called me back today, after having left a phone message with their customer service department.

He did confirm that the label and band are sorting out the problem and that it'll be done shortly after the holidays. He said Rhino offers their apology and gave me the option of either (a) returning the albums now for a full refund or online store credit or, (b) hang on to the albums for now and he'd call me back when the details/plans are finalized, sometime in January, in all likelihood.

I just decided to hang onto them for now; I've already spent the money, so I may as well have them sitting on the shelf.

At any rate, I'm very pleased with Rhino's response. Bright side is that we'll have great, fixed remasters in a few months' time!

If it isn't too much trouble, could you provide a phone number, or contact info for Rhino?

Can we have proof that the band and label are re-sourcing the material on these remasters?

We really need to send them a message about how loud the bonus disc sounds. There are tracks with ReplayGain of -10.00dB, which is way too loud and not consistent with the albums!!! I can take -5.00dB but -10.00dB sounds a little exageratted IMHO!

NO NEED FOR LOUDNESS RACE GUYS!

OK, I just purchased the US releases -- all five of them -- before I picked up on this thread. I have yet to remove the shrink wrap, and I'll probably return them after learning about the countless problems here, but first I just want to verify:

Do these same problems exist on the US release of the set? The ones that came out Nov 11?

Thanks much, and thanks for the heads-up!

Ricky Silahua wrote:

If it isn't too much trouble, could you provide a phone number, or contact info for Rhino?

No problem. Here you go:

Customer Service rhinorecords @theStore24.com or call: (888) 440-4232

On a related note, hopefully there are no problems on the 3 Joy Division reissues that came out in '07...have yet to buy em, but I will...

So, if "Republic" is getting redone, when, and what about "Get Ready" or "Waiting For The Sirens Call"???

I guess, with these 5 getting corrected, afterwards, there's no need to get "Substance" back, as all 24 tracks would be properly annotated and remastered...actually 23 as I've noticed (after cross-referencing) that "Kiss Of Death" is not included, PLUS I have that "Retro" box, the 5-disc edition...and the US version of "Singles".

I'm not a fan of duplicates, collection-wise.

I was just in the Virgin Megastore in Union Square, NYC, last night, and all 5 reissues were on sale for $17.99 each (they LOOK great), and they DID play the remastered "Love Vigilantes" (from "Low Life"), and it sounded GREAT, BTW, but it's the bonus discs that are fucked up, not the albums (Disc 1's), correct???

Mostly, but the main discs still have the odd error or two. They're also too bright-sounding and compressed for my tastes.

K, so after reading through this thread I renamed some of the files and so on. Can someone please confirm that all this is correct, and anything else that should be renamed? Cheers.

My first post. I was about to buy all the remasters from Amazon, when I saw the thread about the issues.

Well, I hope they fix it...and if they're ever going to re-issue Republic please for the love of Gawd, have someone in Rhino check the quality before packaging it.

Hi all,

Just got back the following response from Dr.rhino@rhino.com

======================================================== Warner Bros. UK, Rhino and New Order regret that the initial pressings of the Collector Editions of "Movement", "Power, Corruption & Lies", "Low-Life", "Brotherhood" and "Technique" contain some minor audio problems on the bonus discs. We are now in the process of correcting the problems, but it should be noted that due to the age and condition of some of the original source tapes, the sound quality may vary. A further statement will be issued once the corrected product is available. At that time, the procedure for exchanging CD's will be announced. Thank you for your patience while we resolve this situation.

Dr. Rhino

I e-mailed Rhino and this is what I just received back. I can't decide if they're not going to do a much better job on the second pass (perhaps only fixing the errors on the main albums) or if they're just covering their asses in case they can't find ideal masters of some of the more rare material. Either way, I'm hoping band involvement produces better results than just leaving it all up to the label:

Dear Jake,

This is the only information that I have available at this time:

Warner Bros. UK, Rhino and New Order regret that the initial pressings of the Collector Editions of "Movement", "Power, Corruption & Lies", "Low-Life", "Brotherhood" and "Technique" contain some minor audio problems on the bonus discs. We are now in the process of correcting the problems, but it should be noted that due to the age and condition of some of the original source tapes, the sound quality may vary. A further statement will be issued once the corrected product is available. At that time, the procedure for exchanging CD's will be announced. Thank you for your patience while we resolve this situation.

Dr. Rhino

Warner Bros. UK, Rhino and New Order regret that the initial pressings of the Collector Editions of "Movement", "Power, Corruption & Lies", "Low-Life", "Brotherhood" and "Technique" contain some minor audio problems on the bonus discs. We are now in the process of correcting the problems, but it should be noted that due to the age and condition of some of the original source tapes, the sound quality may vary. A further statement will be issued once the corrected product is available. At that time, the procedure for exchanging CD's will be announced. Thank you for your patience while we resolve this situation.

Dr. Rhino

Lies in bold...

The tracks on the bonus discs aren't even remotely rare, and virtually all of them have been released in multiple territories, so there will be plenty of production masters around.

Isn't it bleeding obvious to everyone that the released product was in fact taken from listening copies only meant for the band to OK the track listing? Band members have been quoted saying these were compiled from various people's collections, not from master tapes. These copies are usually labelled "NOT FOR PRODUCTION" and I guess that's where it went wrong. Still, this should have been spotted before they were sent to the pressing plant. Are really Warner Bros too short of cash to employ QA staff? Or has the whole WB archive of the 20th century actually disappeared down the drain?

Amateurs...

Pristine masters of most of these tracks did exist up to only a couple of years ago, and I don't believe for a second that they've "suddenly" deteriorated. Go do your job!

Yeah, and it isn't just the bonus discs. The drop-out in "Sunrise" is from the first disc, for fuck's sake!

I wrote back to the e-mail Rhino sent me saying I hope they're aware of the errors on the regular discs as well (and listed them) and said I hoped they were planning to fix these too. I can see how the pop on "The Him" was missed in QA, but the right channel drop on "Sunrise" is IMPOSSIBLE to miss on even a casual listen.

MinusTheSnake wrote: ......but the right channel drop on "Sunrise" is IMPOSSIBLE to miss on even a casual listen.

Yeah, def true...I was vaguely aware of problems with these remasters but havent really taken much notice of which exact tracks are imperfect...but sometime last week I walking through one of the main entries of Hornsby Westfield shopping mall when SUNRISE was playing on my earphones and all the sudden...WHOAH, what was that??? That drop-out was so bleeding obvious!!!

Just got a call back from Rhino Records, same thing they said to you all, early 2009. He said they'll call me back when more info is available, which is excellent in my opinion, hope they hold up this time.

Have people been forwarding this thread URL to them as well? If they see it hopefully they'll correct ALL the errors: disc 1, disc 2, the artwork, spine mistakes, booklet errors, the lot.

This maybe has been addressed in the thread already but are there some copies that have no errors? I purchased all of the U.S. released albums and have not run into any of these problems.

James Carson wrote: This maybe has been addressed in the thread already but are there some copies that have no errors? I purchased all of the U.S. released albums and have not run into any of these problems.

Have you listened to "Touched By The Hand Of God" on the Brotherhood bonus disc? The first half a minute of that track is so obvious, that graphs aren't required to work out that it's an apalling transfer... :p

Just wondering,

Why are they still in the stores?

"We are now in the process of correcting the problems, but it should be noted that due to the age and condition of some of the original source tapes, the sound quality may vary."

I think they should take these CD off from the stores... but I guess need some cash

This is my first post here, but I just wanted to share this. This is the email that I sent to Neworder.D2C@warnermusic.com: As a consumer and potential customer, I can only speak with my dollar, and my dollar says this (and I don't think I'm alone in this sentiment):I will not be purchasing the re-issued New Order CDs UNLESS the next pressing corrects all of the errors that have been compiled at this website:http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=43684On top of that, if the remastering of the albums are done carelessly, with only an emphasis on loudness instead of things like sound quality and dynamic range, I'll be keeping my originals.To sum up, if you want my money:1- Correct the errors on the original discs. Really, it's no wonder that people have stopped buying CDs when record labels are willing to sell such a sub-par product.2- Remaster the discs to make them sound BETTER, not just louder.Thanks,-Nick Wilhelmy, a New Order fan.

I'd encourage everyone here to send similar letters if they haven't already. Let Warner/Rhino know that they'll only get our cash if they put out a quality product. I'm a firm believer that money talks. Maybe it won't do any good in the long run, but I think it's worth a shot...

I dreamt today that I was on a store and looking at the New Order remastered in form of vinyl double albums. The covers were bigger than the regular vinyl, almost like a portrait. The covers were also slightly different, like the remasters are. They were wrapped in fine plastic and smelled new.

They were brand new, and had full dynamic range in their remastering. The insides had lyrics and tons of recording information. And they cost just about 2 dollars per disc.

WHAT A DREAM!

According to NME the reissues are being recalled.

New Order recall 'poor quality' reissues

Manchester veterans pull first five albums after fan complaints

New Order have recalled collector's editions of their first five albums after complaints over poor sound quality on the bonus discs.

The reissues each include B-sides, instrumentals, remixes and rarities.

"Warner Bros UK, Rhino and New Order regret that the initial pressings of the collector editions of 'Movement', 'Power, Corruption And Lies', 'Low Life', 'Brotherhood' and 'Technique' contain some minor audio problems on the bonus discs," the band said in a statement.

"We are now in the process of correcting the problems, but it should be noted that due to the age and condition of some of the original source tapes, the sound quality may vary."

The reissues were released last month, but they were only recalled when they were released in the US, reports The Guardian.

Reacting to the recall, bassist Peter Hook wrote on his MySpace blog: "This is a very difficult one. We are aware of the problems and because we did not have finished product to listen to [beforehand] it has, shall we say, slipped through the net?"

Hook went on to promise that his "great friend" and New Order biographer Claude Flowers would "sort this mess out personally".

http://www.nme.com/news/new-order/41306

The NME is just copying the same story that's been in the Guardian and others.

johnny james wrote: The NME is just copying the same story that's been in the Guardian and others.

Doesn't that apply to all NME articles (i.e. copying from other sites)? :p

Well I've just picked up my Chrisse present to myself in Sydney . I now have all five remasters and have listened to all the bonus cds bar the PC&L one on the way home.

I have to say I heard no obvious cracks and pops and was pleasantly surprised at the content given the track listing. There are a few gems there that even I didn't have on cd and extended versions of singles.

I have to say that so far I'm a happy camper.

Now I have to go and watch Caligula, well it kind of has a New order link and well. ;)

edit: OK I noticed a few pops and crackles on my home stereo. Is the BLT 12 inch mastered off the video with the sound fading in the middle?

Still I bought them for the albums and who knows they may become collectable yet.

Just why did I get a cardboard cd as an extra when I also bought the Spooky double cd? Weird stuff indeed.

Yes the double cd was intact but I also got a full cd inlay and cardboard cd for the normal single. Weird indeed.

Only disappointment I have is that I bought Low-Life and Power at the same time and installed all of the cd's onto my itunes, but Power was the only one to come up in Chinese print and not english, go figure. I'm slightly confused but in my eyes New Order could do no wrong.

NOOLigan wrote: Just why did I get a cardboard cd as an extra when I also bought the Spooky double cd? Weird stuff indeed.

Yes the double cd was intact but I also got a full cd inlay and cardboard cd for the normal single. Weird indeed.

Slightly off topic, but not weird at all. Spooky was not released as a double CD, but as two seperate CD singles (everybody was doing it these days). Part 2 came in a slim double CD case, and they put a cardboard single in tray #2 to give the customer a hint that there was another CD for sale also. They did the same thing with the Runied in a day and World releases.

Similar case too with the NINETEEN63 CD single (1995 released UK thick-white-box-with-1963-cutout-front)- as the inner foil-board inside the white box folds out with 2 trays to house 2 discs...so a cardboard CD sits in the spare tray to remind fans to fork out more moolah for another bunch of ordinary remixes

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"Thieves Like Us" was OK on "Substance". On 1994's "best of", it had this particular glitch introduced.

Don't think anybody expected them to mix everything again. To go back to the stereo mixdown master (or at least the best copy thereof, if the master is gone) should be adequate. and I blog is about Nike air shox and Nike AIR Force,welcome to my blog and give me some good advice!

Vocal bleed? Oh dear.

You are aware these are reMASTERS not reMIXES?

Any channel bleed you suddenly here is because it was always there and it's just become more audible now.

Unless of course you believe Nike AIR Force they fired up the original 2" 24track tape with all the original fx and other outboard and made a new mix that's EXACTLY like the one they did 25 years ago, apart from a little channel crosstalk.

Well, Rhino already said they're redoing them. And BTW Chuck Taylors.

I've just bought all the re-masters and listened to all the tracks listed and I do not find anything as far as clicks are concerned. I do hear some distortion on some of the earlier recordings. I believe the resolution of these masters to be better as I’m hearing things I’ve never heard in the past like the band talking in the studio at points. You might want to look into your system setup as I have had this digital clicking in the past when I first started using SACD’s my system it couldn’t cope with the higher resolution and would produce a clicking sound at the same point on a disk and I passed it off as a bad disk only to find out after I upgraded my speakers that there was nothing wrong. Digital setups can be buggy and very hard to get right.

LFOJunky wrote: I've just bought all the re-masters and listened to all the tracks listed and I do not find anything as far as clicks are concerned. I do hear some distortion on some of the earlier recordings. I believe the resolution of these masters to be better as I’m hearing things I’ve never heard in the past like the band talking in the studio at points. You might want to look into your system setup as I have had this digital clicking in the past when I first started using SACD’s my system it couldn’t cope with the higher resolution and would produce a clicking sound at the same point on a disk and I passed it off as a bad disk only to find out after I upgraded my speakers that there was nothing wrong. Digital setups can be buggy and very hard to get right.

Try "Touched By The Hand Of God" on the Brotherhood bonus CD... That'll give you an idea - first 30 seconds are unlistenable, and probably the most outrageous of the lot (considering it's available on CD anyway)...

OK I just played TBTHOG and I was shocked but somehow it would figure that Rhino/Warner is responsible. They seem to bastardize everything they lay there greedy little hands on.

I still haven’t forgiven them for what they did to the Depeche Mode DSD re-masters on the North American release.

LFOJunky wrote: OK I just played TBTHOG and I was shocked but somehow it would figure that Rhino/Warner is responsible. They seem to bastardize everything they lay there greedy little hands on.

I still haven’t forgiven them for what they did to the Depeche Mode DSD re-masters on the North American release.

What did they do to the DM DSD's?

They removed the SACD layer of the album disks. I had to get the UK versions at a higher cost. The format war is over and both parties lost. I don't see the harm in releasing product on the competitors format now.

When they re-master the re-masters I do hope they get someone good and well known to handle the project as I didn’t see any credits as to who’s work it was that messed up these releases.

Not sure if this has been discussed already, but I have a vinyl rip of Blue Monday (not sure which particular issue but it sounds old anyway) and the same panning errors occur as in Substance and these new releases. I guess with stuff like that there's not really any way to fix them without losing quality unless they got the original multitrack masters and mix them from scratch which I'm sure is neither easy nor cheap to do.

However, most of the other errors are not accountable like the above and the whole "remastering" process seems to have added nothing but compression and clipping. The old CDs sound better IMO, so I think I'll stick to them.

some news about new versions (recall)?

Zilog Jones wrote: Not sure if this has been discussed already, but I have a vinyl rip of Blue Monday (not sure which particular issue but it sounds old anyway) and the same panning errors occur as in Substance and these new releases. I guess with stuff like that there's not really any way to fix them without losing quality unless they got the original multitrack masters and mix them from scratch which I'm sure is neither easy nor cheap to do.

But then there was the 24 Hour Party People soundtrack...

Every digital version of the original Blue Monday had either the panning issue or the first beat cut out, but when this soundtrack was released, Blue Monday appeared on it and was perfect from start to finish. Fully remastered sounding, no missing beat, no panning issue. Clearly someone in Warner who put this soundtrack together had to have a master tape to do this, but then after we get shafted with BM panning on the Retro box set, missing beats on BOTH International and Singles compilations, then panning once again on the PC&L remaster.

It just doesn't make any sense how a movie soundtrack can have a better quality sounding version of one of New Order's most historically important songs than any of the group's official releases.

After all, let's point out a critical question: Because of the bad sound/mastered CD's, can we really blame New Order for the lack of quality control and faults on discs/sleeves for New Order CD's nowadays?

I think not, because they're the makers of the music, the record companies have the honourable task to make it sound, look and feel good. That's what lacks these days.

What exactly does Remastering consist of? Is it just running the Masters through a computer software? I've got a BBE 482I Sonic Maximizer which works similar to an equalizer and it cleans up the original release cds pretty well. Granted it's not Digital, but unless you have truly digital ears, who could tell. I prefer Analog anyway. There's only so much that you can do with the originals without remixing them with today's technology. Tracks these days have a fuller sound, where as the 80's were known for the higher frequency recordings with little bass. Today's country songs have tons more bass than our beloved 80's/90's New Order cds.

So what's going on? Has there been ANY new information on the recall yet? It's almost April, we should have had this sorted out already.

Ricky Silahua wrote: So what's going on? Has there been ANY new information on the recall yet? It's almost April, we should have had this sorted out already.

Still nothing that I've heard of. I'm dying to get my copy of "Movement".

Still no word?

No word on it yet. It would take at least a year to fix this mess, but what build up the anxiety is that there is no word from the band or label - they could put this to rest if they wanted.

Our only hope is Hookie through his MySpace blog, we could catch up with him. I encourage all of us to go and question him on this matter, via MySpace. His address is MySpace.com/PeterHookNewOrder

As far as I know, he was the only one who actually spoke deeper on this subject.

I just noticed that the albums are back on Amazon with a release date of June 16. List price $31.99.

Technique Low-life

and so on...

Very well noticed! It says June 16 2009.

Could it be the fixed versions? Gosh, I hope it's not FRIGGING loud... Coz fixed and loud wouldn't be ok

Time to bug Hooky around in his blog and twitter! Some answer have to come out on this!

fonzie9 wrote: Hi,

However, in case nothing constructive comes from this (i.e. replacement-discs), which pressings of the original CD's is the best buy (soundwise): The original Factory, the Qwest or the Centredate ones?

The Centredate CD's I found out they are mostly re-issues, and have the volume cranked up. The first issues to get affected by the loudness war. Stick with the Qwest or Factory ones from their original years of issue.

indiearchivist wrote: NEW ORDER 2008 COLLECTOR'S EDITION DOUBLE CDs "The Factory Years"

This is a log file of complaints so far, and my intention is to update it as they arrive. The list is not finished yet - keep them coming!

The list below was originally referring to the October 2008 Rhino UK/Europe release, but THESE ERRORS STILL HAVEN'T BEEN FIXED FOR THE U.S. RELEASE (NOV. 11, 2008). WARNING - DO NOT BUY THESE YET, UNLESS YOU WANT FAULTY DISCS!!!

[orange]UPDATE (May 2009): The band and label are working on re-sourcing and re-mastering all the CDs - new CDs will apparently be released (16th June?) 2009. Watch this space! It hasn't yet been confirmed whether the tracks have been properly mastered this time, or if there's been attempts to "repair" the faulty masters. I'd suggest do NOT pre-order these yet - wait until we have confirmation that they are definitely error-free.[/orange]

Number of confirmed errors: 300 and counting...(well, I suppose we have given up counting by now...) (all the glitches in "Fine Line" etc. not included - anybody got timings for these?)

By no means is this a definitive list - there's likely more errors that haven't yet been spotted. If you notice any, please say so! Exact time for glitches may be one or two seconds off, depending on what hardware you use. Warning: This list is not to be used for software de-noising or other types of "error correction". The point I wish to make is that more or less all of these tracks are completely unusable and need to be remastered from the correct (analogue/digital master) sources.

Some lessons one could learn from this:

1. It's not a good idea to record tracks from vinyl (or other poor quality sources) and try to pass them off as a "remastered" CD release.
2. It's a better idea to QA the products BEFORE they go out to the shops, than afterwards.
3. No wonder people turn to illegal downloads if this is the quality you get when you pay dearly for a "deluxe edition"

Movement (1981):

1. Dreams Never End
2. Truth
3. Senses
4. Chosen Time
5. I.C.B
6. The Him - Glitch at 5:25-5:26
7. Doubts Even Here
8. Denial

Movement - bonus disc:

1. Ceremony
2. Temptation - Version info missing from CDtext entry (click at 3:47 - unconfirmed)
3. In A Lonely Place (levels are maxed out which has caused clipping - unconfirmed)
4. Everything's Gone Green
5. Procession
6. Cries & Whispers (mislabelled as "Mesh" - unconfirmed) (glitches at 0:06, 0:07, 0:08, 0:28, 0:34, and 0:45 - unconfirmed)
7. Hurt - Glitches at 0:00, 0:37, 1:05, 1:07, 3:04, 3:48, 4:06, 6:19, 6:24, 7:07, 7:26, 7:59)
8. Mesh (mislabelled as "Cries & Whispers" - unconfirmed) - Evidence of scratched vinyl at 0:28, 0:30, 0:35, 0:37, 1:05, 1:07, 1:09, 1:12, 1:14, 1:19, 1:21, 1:40, 1:41, 2:08, 2:09, 2:17, 2:18, 2:19, 2:24, 2:26, 2:28, 2:33, 2:35. In addition, digital glitches at: 0:07, 0:20, 0:44, 0:58, 1:00, 1:25, 1:33, 1:37, 1:44, 1:47, 1:49, 1:56, 1:58, 2:12, 2:22, 2:37, 2:40, 2:49, 2:54, 2:56. Sudden convergence to mono at 1:35.
9. Ceremony (Alt. Version) -L/R channels swapped
10. Temptation - Version info missing from CDtext entry. Left channel crackle at 0:24 CDtext: "Artist" information is missingCDtext: "Title" information is missing

Power, Corruption and Lies (1983): 1, Age of consent 2, We all stand 3, The village 4, 586 ("abrupt ending", "drops the last 4 bass notes" - unconfirmed) 5, Your silent face 6, Ultraviolence 7, Ecstasy 8, Leave me alone

Power, Corruption and Lies - bonus disc: 1, Blue Monday (L/R pans 0:07[sudden], and between 0:19 and 2:24. At 2:24 it pans back again. Unconfirmed whether this is on the original 12 inch) 2, The Beach 3, Confusion - Clicks at 4:04 and 6:00 (Left channel click at 8:06 - unconfirmed whether this is on the original 12 inch) 4, Thieves like us CDtext track info says "ThEIves Like Us" 5, Lonesome Tonight (clicks at 0:40 and 0:59 - unconfirmed) 6, Murder - "Clicks" at 0:35, 1:08, 1:29, 1:43, 2:03, 2:31, 2:43, 2:50, 3:00, 3:19, 3:26 7, Thieves like us (instrumental) (click at 1:03 - unconfirmed) CDtext track info says "ThEIves Like Us" 8, Confusion (instrumental) CDtext: "Artist" information is missingCDtext: "Title" information is missing

Low-Life (1985) Digipak spine says "1983"

1. Love Vigilantes 4:19
2. The Perfect Kiss 4:50
3. This Time of Night 4:45
4. Sunrise 6:01 - Sudden volume drop in right channel at 2:36
5. Elegia 4:55
6. Sooner Than You Think 5:11
7. Sub-culture 4:58
8. Face Up 5:06 Overall: **the album tracks "sound like they've been mastered from the Centredate cd's and not the masters themselves" "this release is a massive disappointment. I even would advise anyone not to buy it" "Sleeve notes full of errors" "Did anyone proof read these?"**Low-Life – bonus disc
9. The Perfect Kiss 8:50 - Dubious sound quality, clicks, 'crackles', and pops at 0:07, 0:11, 0:16, 0:20, 0:23, 0:25, 0:30, 0:42, 0:50, 0:54, 1:08, 1:19, 1:23, 1:28, 1:32, 1:38, 1:56, 2:12, 2:32, 3:01, 3:03, 3:10, 3:11, 3:15, 3:24, 3:29, 3:40, 3:54, 3:57, 4:52, 4:59, 5:04, 5:06, 5:11, 5:13, 5:15, 5:18, 5:20, 5:27, 5:41, 6:08, 6:09, 6:37, 6:42, 6:44, 6:47, 6:51, 6:56, 7:12, 7:47, 7:49, 8:10, 8:15, 8:20, 8:36, and 8:38.
10. Subculture 7:27 - Glitches "run the whole way through it", namely at: 0:02, 0:04, 0:07, 0:08, 0:23, 0:48, 0:56, 1:24, 1:32, 1:58, 2:09, 2:47, 2:50, 3:13, 3:52, 3:55, 3:57, 3:59, 4:30, 4:35, 4:48, 4:55, 4:57, 5:04, 5:18, 5:46, 5:49, 6:38, and 6:52.
11. Shellshock - Not what it says: plays the Substance edit , not the full 12" version. Sounds "shitty, more bass but also no presence"
12. Shame Of The Nation
13. Elegia 17:30
14. Let’s Go - "Clicks" at 1:24 and 3:23*(at 1:31 it sounds like the tape slowed suddenly - unconfirmed)*
15. Salvation Theme 2:16
16. Dub Vulture 7:56 - Has "rumble" as if it were taken from vinyl. Clicks and pops at 0:07, 0:09, 0:14 .... CDtext: "Artist" information is missingCDtext: "Title" information is missingCDtext: track titles are missing Overall, "mastering for the bonus tracks is on the loud side" and clipping may be present. "The tracks on the bonus disc sound mostly awful". "I just can't believe this release passed the quality control of band, management and label."

Brotherhood (1986) 1, Paradise 2, weirdo 3, As it is when it was 4, Broken promise 5, Way of life 6, Bizarre love triangle 7, All day long 8, Angel dust 9, Every little counts 10, State of the nation (WTF? If they were to replicate the original LP track listing, this track should never have been included on the main disc)

Brotherhood - bonus disc 1, Bizarre love triangle (shep pettibone remix) - Version info missing from CDtext entry 2, 1963 - Clicks at 0:04, 0:25, 0:28, 0:30, 0:39, 0:46, 0:55, 1:14, 1:37, 1:56, 2:03, 2:07, 2:14, 2:42, 3:07, 3:29, 3:40, 3:54, 4:25, 4:32, 4:34, 4:40, 4:55, 5:00, 5:16, and 5:25. "Stutter" at 3:36. In addition, "the track has a lot of clipping" 3, True Faith (shep pettibone remix) 4, Touched by the hand of god - Dubious sound quality, clicks, pops and digital glitches at: 0:08, 0:13, 0:15, 0:23, 0:29, 0:39, 6:53, 6:58, and 7:00. 5, Blue Monday ‘88 6, Evil dust - "sounds like it was recorded directly from vinyl", "crackles or some sort of skip at the start" 7, True Dub - Not what it says: plays a 1994 Tall Paul "eschreamer dubbier" remix 8, Beach Buggy - Not what it says: plays Blue Monday 1988 (dub version) CDtext title information says "Disc 8 supplementary material"

Technique (1989) 1, Fine Time 2, All the way 3, love less (click at 0:04 - unconfirmed) 4, Round and round 5, Guilty partner 6, Run 7, Mr disco 8, vanishing point 9, Dream attack "Sleeve notes full of errors" "Did anyone proof read these?"

Technique - bonus disc 1, Don’t do it - Clicks and pops at 0:08, 0:18, 0:35, 0:40, 1:00, 2:25, 2:27, 3:01, 3:05, 3:07, 3:32, 4:12, 4:17, and 4:19. ( a skip near the beginning of the track - unconfirmed) 2, Fine line - A myriad of crackles and "jumps" 3, Round and round - CDtext track info says "Round round". Dubious sound quality, clicks, pops and digital glitches. "4 pops/irregular static within the first 20 seconds". Problems at 0:05, 0:07, 0:10, 0:16, 0:28, 0:32, 0:36, 0:41, 0:48, 0:52, 0:54, 0:56, 0:59, 1:05, 1:30, 1:39, 2:28, 2:30, 2:32, 2:41, 2:43, 2:52, 3:03, 3:15, 4:19, 5:18, 5:34, 6:32, and 6:34. 4, Best and marsh CDtext track info says "Best marsh"(dubious sound quality - unconfirmed) 5, Run 2 - Plays the extended version (not listed as such). Sound quality suggests it was "mastered" from vinyl. Clicks and pops at: 0:03, 0:10, 0:17, 0:24, 0:38, 0:41, 0:45, 0:50, 1:02, 1:13, 1:40, 2:02, 2:39, 3:10, 3:58, 4:05, 4:12, 4:15, 4:29, 4:42, 4:56, and 5:10. 6, MTO - Plays the "minus mix" (not listed as such) 7, Fine time (silk mix) (dubious sound quality - unconfirmed) 8, Vanishing point (instrumental) (dubious sound quality - unconfirmed) 9, world in motion (carabinieri mix)- Listed as "cabinieri". Sound quality suggests it was "mastered" from vinyl CDtext title information says "Bonus disc 4". Overall, "Be aware that the mastering here is horrible. There are audible pops and snaps on some of the bonus disc music indicating it was ripped directly from vinyl and NEVER cleaned up. You can get better bootleg MP3s than this mess."

Overall comments (applying to particular tracks and/or all of the above): "sounds like an MP3 vinyl rip with a lot of compression" "I'm not paying good cash for 'remasters' that in some places sound as if they were played on a cheap turntable through a computer sound card replete with crackles and skips."

Thanks to everybody who's reported errors - hopefully something constructive can come out of this.

3, love less (click at 0:04 - unconfirmed)

confirmed! :(

The click at 0.04 on Love Less is on the original release (vinyl, CD and cassette) - it wasn't introduced on the Technique remaster.

Hey everybody, long time lurker, big time fan, I actually broke down and dropped an email to Rhino Records in regards to the status of corrected version of the re-releases and got the following response:

Thank you for your email. The corrected versions are not available yet. I’ve been told that they should be available within a few weeks. I will contact you when the corrected versions become available. If you have any other questions, please let me know.Dr. Rhino

I don't want to get everybody all excited, but hopefully there is some truth to this especially when taken into account with the new Amazon listings. Hope this helps.

DC

DC73 wrote:

Thank you for your email. The corrected versions are not available yet. I’ve been told that they should be available within a few weeks. I will contact you when the corrected versions become available. If you have any other questions, please let me know.Dr. Rhino

I'm afraid this means nothing, since a NOOLer got the same reply few weeks ago.

Hélène's friend wrote:

DC73 wrote:

Thank you for your email. The corrected versions are not available yet. I’ve been told that they should be available within a few weeks. I will contact you when the corrected versions become available. If you have any other questions, please let me know.Dr. Rhino

I'm afraid this means nothing, since a NOOLer got the same reply few weeks ago.

Well, it's nice to know they haven't forgotten about it.

Yup, I got that same exact reply "a few weeks" ago. Seems they don't really know when the corrected discs will be ready.

AngryRobot wrote: Yup, I got that same exact reply "a few weeks" ago. Seems they don't really know when the corrected discs will be ready.

It was SUMMER...now it's AUTUMN!

E-mail from Rhino today:

Thank you for your email and your patience. The replacement New Order discs are scheduled to become available on 8/25/09. Also at that time, the 5 albums will be re-released to retail outlets, with upgraded audio.

If you would like to receive corrected replacement discs, please reply to this email with your name, shipping address, a list of the discs that you need replaced and a digital photo of your discs. We will send out your replacements as soon as possible.

Thank you again for your patience and understanding in this matter.

^ But if that's the case you won't have the corrected typos and problems on the sleeve art there were mentioned (assuming they fix those too...)

Ryan wrote: ^ But if that's the case you won't have the corrected typos and problems on the sleeve art there were mentioned (assuming they fix those too...)

Why? The mail doesn't mention that they will not send the full package (box,sleeve,CD).

Hélène's friend wrote:

Ryan wrote: ^ But if that's the case you won't have the corrected typos and problems on the sleeve art there were mentioned (assuming they fix those too...)

Why? The mail doesn't mention that they will not send the full package (box,sleeve,CD).

I certainly hope they do! It's just that they said "discs," which sounded to me like they just meant they'd send... two single discs, without the packaging. Time will tell.

I ran into an interesting review of this "remasters":

http://www.sharoma.com/trading/neworder.htm

It says:

I do not for one minute believe Peter Hook's excuses that it was the record company's cutbacks that were to blame. He himself obviously did not take a front seat position with these releases as he damn well should have done. Bernard Sumner doesn't care about the songs and admits to not even owning Movement - his apathy is upsetting but excuses him from taking the blame. Hook, on the other hand, makes a poor argument.

I will have to agree with this guy. I think New Order themselves were never interested in deliver a quality product.

Anyways... the question is... DID ANYONE BUY AND GOT HIS HANDS ON THE NEW AVAILABLE AMAZON CD'S THAT ARE DATED 16th JUNE 2009 ON THE AMAZON WEBSITE? COZ WE NEED A TESTEMONIAL ABOUT THESE PRODUCTS!!!!!

Dr. Rhino answer me:

The news reissues are the ones with the corrected audio.

http://www.rhino.com/store/ArtistCatalog.lasso?Artist=New%20Order

Please note: Our production department has recently reminded me that, in accordance with our initial statement, only the bonus discs of each New Order reissue have been corrected. The exception to this is disc one of Technique.

So, what I want to know is if the first disc of each release was faulty too..

regards, edu

whiteduke wrote: Dr. Rhino answer me:

The news reissues are the ones with the corrected audio.

http://www.rhino.com/store/ArtistCatalog.lasso?Artist=New%20Order

Please note: Our production department has recently reminded me that, in accordance with our initial statement, only the bonus discs of each New Order reissue have been corrected. The exception to this is disc one of Technique.

So, what I want to know is if the first disc of each release was faulty too..

regards, edu

That was a disappointing statement. We sure do not know how these first discs have been mastered, as in Low Life, that there is a suspicion of being a "Centredate" CD copy, just louder. Very amateur. We as fans have been disappointed *ONCE AGAIN*. No proper releases of back catalogue.

I don't think we will ever see any decent stuff from New Order. Peter Hook busy with his silly things (I am really *NOT* interested in Freebass and his stupid book). Bernard is ackwardly strange in his new project Bad Lieutenant. I mean, these guys want New Order to *explode* and don't care one bit about the catalogue they have built. They don't even own copies of New Order albums. I guess New Order for them became a pile of ressentiment and bitterness they don't want to go back to it. Just like you're having to face your ex-wife after a bloody divorce, everyday on breakfast. Insane.

I hope this stupid book fail, and I hope Bad L. and Freebass aren't listened anywhere. I burst in anger right now, as a loyal fan I have been...

whiteduke wrote: Dr. Rhino answer me:

The news reissues are the ones with the corrected audio.

http://www.rhino.com/store/ArtistCatalog.lasso?Artist=New%20Order

Please note: Our production department has recently reminded me that, in accordance with our initial statement, only the bonus discs of each New Order reissue have been corrected. The exception to this is disc one of Technique.

So, what I want to know is if the first disc of each release was faulty too..

regards, edu

That's odd, too me one of the most glaring and obvious errors was the sound cutting out and fading back in again on one channel during 'Sunrise' on 'Low-life' - surely that needed fixing?? Didn't notice anything too bad in Technique...

Andy

That was a disappointing statement. We sure do not know how these first discs have been mastered, as in Low Life, that there is a suspicion of being a "Centredate" CD copy, just louder. Very amateur. We as fans have been disappointed *ONCE AGAIN*. No proper releases of back catalogue

They mastered them from the original tapes, and oversaw the process right from the beginning.

It was the second disc material that was left to Warner's and botched up.

The number of "faults" on the first discs are fairly minimal, and are probably present on the original tapes (though maybe not that little glitch on The Him). The sound and mastering of these albums is more about personal preference than actual errors.

johnny james wrote:

That was a disappointing statement. We sure do not know how these first discs have been mastered, as in Low Life, that there is a suspicion of being a "Centredate" CD copy, just louder. Very amateur. We as fans have been disappointed *ONCE AGAIN*. No proper releases of back catalogue

They mastered them from the original tapes, and oversaw the process right from the beginning.

It was the second disc material that was left to Warner's and botched up.

The number of "faults" on the first discs are fairly minimal, and are probably present on the original tapes (though maybe not that little glitch on The Him). The sound and mastering of these albums is more about personal preference than actual errors.

Well, then my personal preference would be to have Sunrise fixed

johnny james wrote:

They mastered them from the original tapes, and oversaw the process right from the beginning.

Are you sure they are mastered from the master tapes? What about indiearchivist statement:

Overall: the album tracks "sound like they've been mastered from the Centredate cd's and not the masters themselves" "this release is a massive disappointment. I even would advise anyone not to buy it" "Sleeve notes full of errors" "Did anyone proof read these?"

Well I just *HOPE* the bonus discs have the right mixes now.

I asked "Dr. Rhino" if Low Life was going to be fixed due to the egregious error on Sunrise. Their polite but very disappointing response:

Dear Nick,

Thank you for your email and input.

There are no plans to reissue a corrected disc 1 for Low Life, at this time.

Nevertheless, I will forward your message to our suggestion box.

Dr. Rhino

Idiots.

It seems that Frank Arkwright has remastered the re-issued vinyls who are coming now - he did the remastering on the smiths latest which was really good. This must mean that they have another remastering that the cd's. Here's a link to a bundle offer:

http://www.rhino.co.uk/rhino-store/products,new-order-vinyl-plus-lp-bundle\_2773.htm

patrik forssell wrote: It seems that Frank Arkwright has remastered the re-issued vinyls who are coming now - he did the remastering on the smiths latest which was really good. This must mean that they have another remastering that the cd's. Here's a link to a bundle offer:

http://www.rhino.co.uk/rhino-store/products,new-order-vinyl-plus-lp-bundle\_2773.htm

These don't appear to come with the b sides and remixes though.

Whoa, that's insane! To think a band like New Order could release these monstrosities...were they even consulted? Or was the mastering guy too busy counting his cash or something?

I did the download of "Low Life" in the Rhino's Vinyl Plus website with the code included on the new LP re-issue and the channel drop on "Sunrise" were not corrected. But, I still didn't hear the new vinyl yet. At moment I'm in Barcelona and my turntable is in my home in Brazil. When I come back to my country I will listen that vinyl re-issue carefully to check the errors.

(excuse me for the bad english, guys!)

DjBr wrote: I ran into an interesting review of this "remasters":

http://www.sharoma.com/trading/neworder.htm

It says:

I do not for one minute believe Peter Hook's excuses that it was the record company's cutbacks that were to blame. He himself obviously did not take a front seat position with these releases as he damn well should have done. Bernard Sumner doesn't care about the songs and admits to not even owning Movement - his apathy is upsetting but excuses him from taking the blame. Hook, on the other hand, makes a poor argument.

I will have to agree with this guy. I think New Order themselves were never interested in deliver a quality product.

Anyways... the question is... DID ANYONE BUY AND GOT HIS HANDS ON THE NEW AVAILABLE AMAZON CD'S THAT ARE DATED 16th JUNE 2009 ON THE AMAZON WEBSITE? COZ WE NEED A TESTEMONIAL ABOUT THESE PRODUCTS!!!!!

A got copies from "Movement" and "Low Life" that appeared in the records shops from Barcelona after 16th june. I think they are - finally! - the re-remasters... Now they have an extra booklet with the corrected tracklisting from all five Factory Years albuns + info (catalogue numbers, studios, producers, etc). In the bonus discs I didn't hear the clicks and scratches of the early ones anymore. But, the channel drop on "Sunrise" is still there.

Does any know of a good reliable on-line source of these re-release CD's?

Alan William Henery wrote: Does any know of a good reliable on-line source of these re-release CD's?

NewOrderRemaster2009

Damn, so True Dub isn't on the Brotherhood CD (just the Eschreamer Dub re-titled)... Bugger...

I was hoping to finally hear that on cd...

Oh, and whilst we're on the subject, any sign of a UK release of these remastered remasters?

(or do you have to order them from the States)?

You mean to say that,the whole thing is of an English origin....band,history,main fanbase,remaster,original release,etc,etc,etc,......but the re-released corrected versions are to be released stateside(or wherever) FIRST??!! You fookin' jest me!! Surely it should be here first.They don't even appear to be on any release schedule,so are they even being re-re-released here AT ALL??!! Does anyone have a fookin' clue what they are doing with this,it's so fookin' amateurish,it's beyond belief.To have a band so universally aclaimed have these fookin' insults for re-releases put out into the public domain,having the likes of the Cure,Bunnymen,Mode ones be so lovingly done and far superior,is a complete & utter fookin' joke.It's come full circle.Factory started the art,Rhino fooked it up

And the band themselves should take some responsibility too.They've had the money,show some fookin' respect in return,I know Hooky has shown some displeasure and said the right things,but fook all seems to be being done

Aracri wrote:

A got copies from "Movement" and "Low Life" that appeared in the records shops from Barcelona after 16th june. I think they are - finally! - the re-remasters... Now they have an extra booklet with the corrected tracklisting from all five Factory Years albuns + info (catalogue numbers, studios, producers, etc). In the bonus discs I didn't hear the clicks and scratches of the early ones anymore. But, the channel drop on "Sunrise" is still there.

That seems to be what I got. I ordered it from rhino.com and received it about 1.5 weeks ago. Not really fair to the hardcore faithful who are still waiting for their replacement discs. C'est la vie I suppose.

So the "corrected" Brotherhood bonus disc still contains a promo remix of True Faith from '94, even though that's post-Factory.

Whatever. I gave up on them a long time ago. I'll buy used copies of the deluxe editions so the label doesn't get my money, throw the discs in the trash, and use the digipacks to hold my own versions of the discs.

Hélène's friend wrote:

Alan William Henery wrote: Does any know of a good reliable on-line source of these re-release CD's?

Cheers mate

Not impressed. It seems that, instead of replacing the tracks (True Dub etc) with the correct ones.............the lazy b-stards just copied and pasted the (incorrect) track titles from this thread.

We've done the hard work here - everyone who's posted here should get copies of the whole set for free. Whether you'd actually want one is another matter...

Some of the credits reveal that there actually is information about where things were recorded, Pluto Studios for the Salvation! tracks, for example. If anything, this shows that the excuses that "Factory left everything in a total mess" and "the master tapes are long lost" don't hold any water. There's surely quite a few gems in the vaults, but guess what, they keep trying to sell us the same old sh*t over and over again.

This thread is messed up..

Just bought these following japanese editions:

1. Technique (my favorite album ever!)
2. Low Life (mainly for the full perfect kiss 12" on the bonus cd)

The good thing:

Both albums and bonus cds sounds excellent! I think that most of the sound problems were corrected on these japanese releases(Don't have the UK or US first pressing ones to compare...).

The bad thing:

"Loveless" from Technique still have that click at 0:04 running time :-(

I'm going to buy the remaining japanese ones ;-)

My 1992 London Records disc of Technique has the same Love Less-problem after 4 seconds, so that one is not a new problem since the Collectors Editions last year.

The original issue of Technique (LP, cassette and CD) had the pop on Love Less. It's nothing to do with the reissues.

The audio problem of "Loveless" was corrected before on this re-release: Technique cd Polydor K.K.. Catalog#: POCD-1887 year 1994 Japanese release

I listened to my copy and I'm able to confirm that.

the him wrote: Just bought these following japanese editions:

1. Technique (my favorite album ever!)
2. Low Life (mainly for the full perfect kiss 12" on the bonus cd)

The good thing:

Both albums and bonus cds sounds excellent! I think that most of the sound problems were corrected on these japanese releases(Don't have the UK or US first pressing ones to compare...).

The bad thing:

"Loveless" from Technique still have that click at 0:04 running time :-(

I'm going to buy the remaining japanese ones ;-)

What about the volume drop in Sunrise?

I listened to the track again and couldn't detect a volume drop there.

this thread's screwed

Needs a

Yup, needs an end quote - doubt whether it'll be fixed unless you can alert a moderator or the Aussie guy who misquoted?

It seems OK again now the topic moved on to the next page. At least in my browser.

indiearchivist wrote: It seems OK again now the topic moved on to the next page. At least in my browser.

Yup, the quote issue only affects the displaying of that page only - the code (probably) looks at all the start and end quotes... If there's too many start or end quotes, the display is screwed up...

When you get to the next page, however, you start afresh! :)

I have no idea what happened there

Alan William Henery wrote: I have no idea what happened there

something like that:

{ ....... [ ........ ( ...... ) ....... ] .......... <-------------------- "}" missing here { ... [ ... ( ... ) ] } page break .../...

My set of 5 corrected bonus disks + Technique arrived today. (I’m in the US).

The disks came in generic white sleeves; no revised artwork was included. They did not include the supplemental booklet that Aracri mentioned earlier in this thread. There was no letter or correspondence of any kind. They did, very generously, include a www.rhino.com sticker.

I haven’t listened to them yet. Almost afraid to do so…

Down with Rhino, long live £50 Note.

Anyone have any information how we can exchange our old discs for the new ones?

email Dr Rhino, he'll ask for a scan of your disc(s), and will send replacement copies.

As It Is wrote: email Dr Rhino, he'll ask for a scan of your disc(s), and will send replacement copies.

And that works for us Europeans?

Nick King wrote:

As It Is wrote: email Dr Rhino, he'll ask for a scan of your disc(s), and will send replacement copies.

And that works for us Europeans?

Yep. I live in Sweden and I got my replacement discs (and Rhino sticker) today.

Ruskprick wrote:

Nick King wrote:

As It Is wrote: email Dr Rhino, he'll ask for a scan of your disc(s), and will send replacement copies.

And that works for us Europeans?

Yep. I live in Sweden and I got my replacement discs (and Rhino sticker) today.

i live in France and expect my replacement disc to arrive...asap.

Can you please comment on the new version? no extensive audiophile analysis necessary, you just haveto post that they sound good :)

OK, first off, there's a way to tell the old bad CDs from the new corrected ones...the old ones have the clear warner soft slipcases...the new corrected ones are just shrinkwrapped with soft plastic and the stickers on front and back...not sure if there are new catalogue numbers or anything...BUT I was just up in Boston at Newbury Comics and they had all 5 in stock...GREAT!! So as I wanted to try just one...just in case, right??...so I picked PC&L, as I wanted "Blue Monday" and "Thieves Like Us"...good choice...

Got it home, saw both booklets...good sign...that second booklet is awesome BTW...read the liner notes and compared to the "Retro" box...I have the 5-disc version...

First disc sounds great...but kept my fingers crossed with the bonus disc...the verdict???

PERFECT!!!!!!!! Absolutely PERFECT!! No errors that I heard, not one!! The sound quality is great, espesh on the 12" versions, better than on "Substance" which is too low. Now, I will buy the other 4...this was the gateway passage, and I can get 1 or 2 at a time...unlike the Beatles stereo box, where I have to buy the set at once, not the albums individually...even tho I can.

Question...will there be deluxe remasters of "Republic", "Get Ready" and "Waiting For The Siren's Call"??? Also, even tho these remasters is missing the 2 1987 versions of "Confusion" and "Temptation", and the B-side "Kiss Of Death"...it's not a necessary thing to have "Substance" back again...those 2 rerecordings are inferior to the originals and "Kiss Of Death" is just a dub/instrumental version of "The Perfect Kiss", and the other tracks like the brilliant "Shame Of The Nation" are all either on the "Retro" box or among these 5 corrected remasters.

Mission accomplished with these 5 though...whew!!!

Now I'll check out Bad Lieutenant...these 5 are the final word on New Order, it seems...how about remastered final 3 tho???

powerpoplarry wrote:

First disc sounds great...but kept my fingers crossed with the bonus disc...the verdict???

PERFECT!!!!!!!! Absolutely PERFECT!! No errors that I heard, not one!! The sound quality is great, espesh on the 12" versions, better than on "Substance" which is too low.

unless you're Dr Rhino in disguise, i have to

powerpoplarry wrote: these 5 are the final word on New Order, it seems...

powerpoplarry wrote: OK, first off, there's a way to tell the old bad CDs from the new corrected ones...the old ones have the clear warner soft slipcases...the new corrected ones are just shrinkwrapped with soft plastic and the stickers on front and back...

Good, then I got the right one.

powerpoplarry wrote: PERFECT!!!!!!!! Absolutely PERFECT!! No errors that I heard, not one!! The sound quality is great, espesh on the 12" versions, better than on "Substance" which is too low.

Great, somebody agrees with me. I have thoroughly enjoyed Movement so it's time to look for PC&L. :)

Someone on the French forum mentioned the following:

• Sunrise has now been corrected (this is, imo, a major information!). Why is there no replacement program for Low-life CD1 is an enigma.
• The tracks on the so-called bonus discs hve been highly improved, but they still don't sound as good as £50's remasters.

I'll probably be buying these remasters for the original albums, then, but not for the bonus discs.

Ben wrote: Someone on the French forum mentioned the following:

• Sunrise has now been corrected (this is, imo, a major information!). Why is there no replacement program for Low-life CD1 is an enigma.
• The tracks on the so-called bonus discs hve been highly improved, but they still don't sound as good as £50's remasters.

I'll probably be buying these remasters for the original albums, then, but not for the bonus discs.

That's sort of how I feel at the moment-I'm debating buying the remasters for the original albums alone. Of course, this is contingent on whether or not THAT material has been screwed over as well. I have the original CD pressings and am slightly hesitant to go out and buy them all again if there's no significant sonic upgrade.

Blackett88 wrote:

Ben wrote: Someone on the French forum mentioned the following:

• Sunrise has now been corrected (this is, imo, a major information!). Why is there no replacement program for Low-life CD1 is an enigma.
• The tracks on the so-called bonus discs hve been highly improved, but they still don't sound as good as £50's remasters.

I'll probably be buying these remasters for the original albums, then, but not for the bonus discs.

That's sort of how I feel at the moment-I'm debating buying the remasters for the original albums alone. Of course, this is contingent on whether or not THAT material has been screwed over as well. I have the original CD pressings and am slightly hesitant to go out and buy them all again if there's no significant sonic upgrade.

If they did the same (good, imo) job as with the JD remasters, I'd buy them without hesitation. But is it the case?

Ben wrote:

Blackett88 wrote:

Ben wrote: Someone on the French forum mentioned the following:

• Sunrise has now been corrected (this is, imo, a major information!). Why is there no replacement program for Low-life CD1 is an enigma.
• The tracks on the so-called bonus discs hve been highly improved, but they still don't sound as good as £50's remasters.

I'll probably be buying these remasters for the original albums, then, but not for the bonus discs.

That's sort of how I feel at the moment-I'm debating buying the remasters for the original albums alone. Of course, this is contingent on whether or not THAT material has been screwed over as well. I have the original CD pressings and am slightly hesitant to go out and buy them all again if there's no significant sonic upgrade.

If they did the same (good, imo) job as with the JD remasters, I'd buy them without hesitation. But is it the case?

I have no idea. I wish I knew. 50 Pound Note said the sound's been compressed pretty badly, but I'm not sure if that applies to the album as well as the B-side/rarities disc.

Blackett88 wrote: I have no idea. I wish I knew. 50 Pound Note said the sound's been compressed pretty badly, but I'm not sure if that applies to the album as well as the B-side/rarities disc.

It's universal because they want the discs to sound identical. Apparently, turning the volume up is too difficult for some people.

Drew Crumbaugh - who mastered the concerts on the Joy Division deluxe editions - shared with me his pristene transfers of these five albums taken from original Factory vinyl pressings. They are equal in quality to the work my friend Bruce is doing for Recycle, and they certainly sound better than these "remasters". I'll be buying used copies to get the digipacks, throwing away the CDs, and replacing them with Drew's efforts plus my own bonus discs.

I'm really skeptical about all of this. especially the quality.

YES, I WILL BUY THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES, I WILL POST CHARTS AND GRAPHS TOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OF COURSE I WILL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what else do you expect.

(i'm crazy that way)..

later -1

-1 wrote: I'm really skeptical about all of this. especially the quality.

YES, I WILL BUY THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES, I WILL POST CHARTS AND GRAPHS TOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OF COURSE I WILL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what else do you expect.

(i'm crazy that way)..

later -1

Well, you already did, didn't you? :D If I remember well, your conclusion was that the albums were OK but the bonus discs very bad. Is this true? Would you recommend buying the remasters for the original albums?

Ben wrote:

-1 wrote: I'm really skeptical about all of this. especially the quality.

YES, I WILL BUY THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES, I WILL POST CHARTS AND GRAPHS TOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OF COURSE I WILL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what else do you expect.

(i'm crazy that way)..

later -1

Well, you already did, didn't you? :D If I remember well, your conclusion was that the albums were OK but the bonus discs very bad. Is this true? Would you recommend buying the remasters for the original albums?

I think 50 Pound Note gave you your answer: The remastered albums, even the re-remastered albums, sound overly loud and unnecessarily compressed making them sound in fact WORSE then the original CD prints which is a shame especially now hearing that excellent quality remasters of Movement, Power, Corruption & Lies, Low-Life, Brotherhood and Technique do exist. I don't see why it's so hard for Rhino to put out something of at least halfway respectable quality.

Ruskprick wrote:

Nick King wrote:

As It Is wrote: email Dr Rhino, he'll ask for a scan of your disc(s), and will send replacement copies.

And that works for us Europeans?

Yep. I live in Sweden and I got my replacement discs (and Rhino sticker) today.

Well, I've attempted two e-mails to Rhino (one via Dr Rhino, and one via another contact method on their website)...

No reply whatsoever, which is attrocious...

I'm in the UK and have emailed Dr Rhino and Neworder.D2C@warnermusic.com asking for replacement copies of the faulty New Order remasteres, but no response yet. Has anyone in the UK sucessfully received free replacement copies yet?

I've read that Low-life's audio drop-out on 'Sunrise' has been fixed on these new versions, but have read of no one that's received a replacement 'Low-life' disc yet. What replacement discs has everyone been receiving?

I'm thinking of asking for all of my 10 discs to be replaced. Anyone else asked for this yet?

Mr Discography wrote: I'm in the UK and have emailed Dr Rhino and Neworder.D2C@warnermusic.com asking for replacement copies of the faulty New Order remasteres, but no response yet. Has anyone in the UK sucessfully received free replacement copies yet?

I've read that Low-life's audio drop-out on 'Sunrise' has been fixed on these new versions, but have read of no one that's received a replacement 'Low-life' disc yet. What replacement discs has everyone been receiving?

I'm thinking of asking for all of my 10 discs to be replaced. Anyone else asked for this yet?

The Sunrise drop-out, apparently, hasn't been fixed - they've left the first CD's alone...

As for getting a response from any e-mail, the answer is none...

While the minor glitch at the very end of The Him is still there, they have at least tried to remedy the dropout in Sunrise. Unfortunately, they have done this in an incredibly clumsy way, by simply raising the volume of the offending passage. When -1 finally gets round to putting up a screengrab of this, you'll immediately notice an unnaturally looking protrusion where the dropout used to be.

Haven't had time to read the whole thread but it looks like any Remaster issues (for any band) are not a priority for Rhino...

http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2009/09/24/rhino-records-layoffs-reissues-box-sets/

A statement from Rhino cited a "fundamental transformation of the physical new release and catalog business" as a reason for the cuts.Company said Rhino will evolve into an entity that "handles WMG's global digital catalog initiatives, film, TV, vidgame and commercial licensing, and name and likeness representation for legendary artists."

Blackett88 wrote:

Ben wrote:

-1 wrote: I'm really skeptical about all of this. especially the quality.

YES, I WILL BUY THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YES, I WILL POST CHARTS AND GRAPHS TOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OF COURSE I WILL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what else do you expect.

(i'm crazy that way)..

later -1

Well, you already did, didn't you? :D If I remember well, your conclusion was that the albums were OK but the bonus discs very bad. Is this true? Would you recommend buying the remasters for the original albums?

I think 50 Pound Note gave you your answer: The remastered albums, even the re-remastered albums, sound overly loud and unnecessarily compressed making them sound in fact WORSE then the original CD prints which is a shame especially now hearing that excellent quality remasters of Movement, Power, Corruption & Lies, Low-Life, Brotherhood and Technique do exist. I don't see why it's so hard for Rhino to put out something of at least halfway respectable quality.

Hi there - have been following this thread for a bit and was about to spring for all these remasters after having the original vinyl and the first cd pressings. After reading this post, which are the 'excellent quality' remasters you are referring to? obviously those would be the ones to get

thanks!

I noticed the "re-remastered" editions have arrived in Oz CD shops. Saw the whole lot at JB Hifi stores, they stocked both "original remastered" & "re-remastered" ones. As mentioned somewhere in this thread you can tell the diff between "original" & "re-re" by looking for the 'COLLECTORS EDITION' plastic slipcase which is missing on the "re-re". However, I did find some "original" shrinkwrapped with missing plastic slipcase. So the best way to grab the rite one is by looking closely at the digipak spine - the "re-re" has the words 'Reissue c.2009' amongst the usual info. Another thing, JB Hifi stores here sells the "original" a lot cheaper at AU$22 while the "re-re" cost AU$45! Anyway, I wont be buying the "re-re' at that price and I already have all the 5 "original" ones....but would def like to get my hands on the 'second' booklet though which was not in the "original"s. Might try emailing Dr.Rhino when I'm free....I believe we have a fellow Aussie NOOL here who received those "re-re" in the mail couple weeks ago all the way from Burbank, Cali USA......well done, Ron!!!!

Dear New Order Fan,Thank you for your email and your patience. Your replacement request iscurrently being processed and your replacement discs will ship outwithin 10 business days.We apologize for the delay and thank you again for your patience.Dr. Rhino

poisoned Snickers r yummy... wrote:

So the best way to grab the rite one is by looking closely at the digipak spine - the "re-re" has the words 'Reissue c.2009' amongst the usual info.

Mine says 2008, has no clear slipcover and has the second booklet.

Well, I've emailed Dr Rhino asking to be sent any discs or booklets that have changed for this release. He confirmed again, that only the 5 bonus discs and 'Technique' have been re-remastered. No mention of 'Low-life' being tweaked, or the booklets being any different - contrary to what people are saying on this forum.

Actually makes me wish I'd got a refund from HMV when the original, duff copies were released, and was rebuying them now, to ensure they I get optimum sound quality. I reckon they've sneaklily "fixed" 'Low-life' on the new copies, but don't want to admit that even more discs had errors!

Three questions:

What's different about the booklets?

What were the masterin errors on 'Technique', anyway??

Do we now have the proper, 1987 'True Dub' on the 'Brotherhood' bonus disc, or still that boring 90's dance mix?

Andy

Just sent this to Dr Rhino, in response to a message telling me that the replacement 5 bonus discs and 'Technique' will be sent to me in 5 working days:

I'm told on the New Order forum that each of the new versions of these remasters come with an extra booklet that has the tracklisting and credits for each 2xCD set - please ensure that these are also included with my replacement discs.I am also told that 'Low-life' has a stereo channel drop-out during the track 'Sunrise' fixed on the new versions. Please also ensure I receive a replacement copy of this disc, along with the 5 bonus discs and 'Technique'.

I'll let you know what reply I get.

Andy

Mr Discography wrote: Just sent this to Dr Rhino, in response to a message telling me that the replacement 5 bonus discs and 'Technique' will be sent to me in 5 working days:

I'm told on the New Order forum that each of the new versions of these remasters come with an extra booklet that has the tracklisting and credits for each 2xCD set - please ensure that these are also included with my replacement discs.I am also told that 'Low-life' has a stereo channel drop-out during the track 'Sunrise' fixed on the new versions. Please also ensure I receive a replacement copy of this disc, along with the 5 bonus discs and 'Technique'.

I'll let you know what reply I get.

Andy

You actually got a response?? :o

Which e-mail address did you use?

Cheers,

Nick

Mr Discography wrote: Do we now have the proper, 1987 'True Dub' on the 'Brotherhood' bonus disc, or still that boring 90's dance mix?

Boring 90's dance mix (also appears on Hooky's new compilation)...

Neither are "True Dub"...

doctorx0079 wrote:

poisoned Snickers r yummy... wrote:

So the best way to grab the rite one is by looking closely at the digipak spine - the "re-re" has the words 'Reissue c.2009' amongst the usual info.

Mine says 2008, has no clear slipcover and has the second booklet.

Umm, well....funny that, cuz fellow Oz NOOLer 'Peter' mentioned on the other thread on 'Re-remasters' also mentioned that he has the second booklet when he bought the AU$22 copies which I was very certain are the 'original remasters'....and I am quite sure the 're-remasters' copies cost AU$45 in the same shop.

Anyway, I better check all my 'original remasters' when I get to my Sydney home at the end of the week (I'm in Newcastle for the week)...to be honest, I havent even read those white booklets in those digipaks, I have only taken all the discs out to convert them to MP3s for convenience sake (i know, how lo-fi of me :D ) Who knows, I might be lucky & find a second booklet in those digipaks, I'll let u guys know.

I wonder if Rhino's engineers got mixed up when they informed the label that Technique had been re-remastered, and meant to say 'Low-life'. There are no confirmed errors in this listing's forum about the album, so why "fix it"??!?!!

Anyone know if the fixed bonus discs now do have the 9 minute 12" mix of Shellshock, rather than the Substance edit?

Andy

I wonder if Rhino's engineers got mixed up when they informed the label that Technique had been re-remastered, and meant to say 'Low-life'. There are no confirmed errors in this listing's forum about the album, so why "fix it"??!?!!

I think it was because they weren't quite happy with it.

Anyone know if the fixed bonus discs now do have the 9 minute 12" mix of Shellshock, rather than the Substance edit?

Andy

Still the shorter Substance version because the other one goes on too long.

Hi, had anyone here bought the new re-remaster from online stores? How can I differ them from the old ones???

tks. edu

I am interested in buying downloads of the Collector's editions. Does anyone know if Amazon Mp3 or iTunes has corrected versions on their servers?

got a response from Dr Rhino tonight...

RE: new order remasters - 2nd attempt

Thank you for your email. The corrected versions of our New Order reissues are visually indistinguishable from the earlier versions and are now available at retailers and Rhino.com:

http://rhino.com/store/ArtistCatalog.lasso?Artist=New%20Order

All of the earlier, defective versions have been pulled from stock by now.

If, for some reason, you do receive an earlier/defective version of any of these titles, please let me know and I will makes sure that you receive corrected replacement discs.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

Dr. Rhino

Here's the reply I had from Mr Rhino to the email quoted below:

Thank you for your email. There are no replacement booklets available and no replacement for Low Life disc 1.

Mmm... Somethign odd about the language used here... They're not saying they haven't produced any additional booklets or remastered other albums. They're just saying the have no booklets or replacement disc 1's available. So - have they slightly tweaked any main albums other than Technique?

Can anyone provide a graphical waveform of 'Sunrise' to prove whether the stereo drop out has been fixed on the new version of 'Low-life'?

What a bloody debacle.

Andy

Mr Discography wrote: Just sent this to Dr Rhino, in response to a message telling me that the replacement 5 bonus discs and 'Technique' will be sent to me in 5 working days:

I'm told on the New Order forum that each of the new versions of these remasters come with an extra booklet that has the tracklisting and credits for each 2xCD set - please ensure that these are also included with my replacement discs.I am also told that 'Low-life' has a stereo channel drop-out during the track 'Sunrise' fixed on the new versions. Please also ensure I receive a replacement copy of this disc, along with the 5 bonus discs and 'Technique'.

I'll let you know what reply I get.

Andy

Mr Discography wrote: Here's the reply I had from Mr Rhino to the email quoted below:

Can anyone provide a graphical waveform of 'Sunrise' to prove whether the stereo drop out has been fixed on the new version of 'Low-life'?

What a bloody debacle.

Andy

Yes, I can and will do so tonight (GMT +1) if no-one else beats me to it. You will be able to spot the offending section by a country mile!

Anyone know if the fixed bonus discs now do have the 9 minute 12" mix of Shellshock, rather than the Substance edit?

Andy

Still the shorter Substance version because the other one goes on too long.

That's no excuse for using the inferior Substance edit - for instance half a verse is cut out. And worse, Hooky's bass solo is missing. More a question of "...because we couldn't be arsed to go through all the master tapes", wasn't it really?

indiearchivist wrote:

Anyone know if the fixed bonus discs now do have the 9 minute 12" mix of Shellshock, rather than the Substance edit?

Andy

Still the shorter Substance version because the other one goes on too long.

That's no excuse for using the inferior Substance edit - for instance half a verse is cut out. And worse, Hooky's bass solo is missing. More a question of "...because we couldn't be arsed to go through all the master tapes", wasn't it really?

They did go through the tapes, they just didn't want that version.

That's no excuse for using the inferior Substance edit - for instance half a verse is cut out. And worse, Hooky's bass solo is missing. More a question of "...because we couldn't be arsed to go through all the master tapes", wasn't it really?

They did go through the tapes, they just didn't want that version.

But they managed to sit through Dub-vulture and multiple versions of Blue Monday 1988? Oh well, nothing we can do about it, I suppose...

Mr Discography wrote: Here's the reply I had from Mr Rhino to the email quoted below:

Thank you for your email. There are no replacement booklets available and no replacement for Low Life disc 1.

Can anyone provide a graphical waveform of 'Sunrise' to prove whether the stereo drop out has been fixed on the new version of 'Low-life'?

What a bloody debacle.

Andy

I've got screenshots of the full song & a detail, but I'm not able to insert them in this message. Can I email them to you?

Not sure if it's been posted before, but having listened carefully to the remastered vinyl of Low Life last night, I can confirm that Sunrise has no audio drop out and does not appear to show signs of any cack-handed repair.

littleboylost wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Here's the reply I had from Mr Rhino to the email quoted below:

Thank you for your email. There are no replacement booklets available and no replacement for Low Life disc 1.

Can anyone provide a graphical waveform of 'Sunrise' to prove whether the stereo drop out has been fixed on the new version of 'Low-life'?

What a bloody debacle.

Andy

I've got screenshots of the full song & a detail, but I'm not able to insert them in this message. Can I email them to you?

Are you able to find a way of getting them posted on here? If not, you can find my email address as http://www.dandelionradio.com/contact (don't like posting it on forums - trying to avoid those spambots). I'll then upload for all to see here. I want to make the point to Rhino, that one of the most annoyingly obvious errors is in the middle of 'Sunrise'. If it has, indeed, been fixed, then I want my faulty copy replaced - just like all the other "faulty" discs have been. I want to be 100% sure it's fixed on the new versions before I start stamping my metaphorical feet though. Perhaps you could grab the "new" remaster of 'Sunrise' as a lo-fi mp3 file and email that to me too, so I can check with my own ears, just to be doubly sure?!

Cheers,

Andy

Mr Discography wrote:

littleboylost wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Here's the reply I had from Mr Rhino to the email quoted below:

Thank you for your email. There are no replacement booklets available and no replacement for Low Life disc 1.

Can anyone provide a graphical waveform of 'Sunrise' to prove whether the stereo drop out has been fixed on the new version of 'Low-life'?

What a bloody debacle.

Andy

I've got screenshots of the full song & a detail, but I'm not able to insert them in this message. Can I email them to you?

Are you able to find a way of getting them posted on here? If not, you can find my email address as http://www.dandelionradio.com/contact (don't like posting it on forums - trying to avoid those spambots). I'll then upload for all to see here. I want to make the point to Rhino, that one of the most annoyingly obvious errors is in the middle of 'Sunrise'. If it has, indeed, been fixed, then I want my faulty copy replaced - just like all the other "faulty" discs have been. I want to be 100% sure it's fixed on the new versions before I start stamping my metaphorical feet though. Perhaps you could grab the "new" remaster of 'Sunrise' as a lo-fi mp3 file and email that to me too, so I can check with my own ears, just to be doubly sure?!

Cheers,

Andy

Email sent!

Just got my reply from Rhino...

Thank you for sending your shipping information and the attached documentation. We will send you replacement disc(s) as soon as possible.

Please note: Our production department has recently reminded me that, in accordance with our initial statement, only the bonus discs of each New Order reissue have been corrected. The exception to this is disc one of Technique.

Thank you again for your patience and understanding. If you have any questions, please let me know.

Dr. Rhino

Isn't it obvious that low-lives haven't got the technique to tell one from the other? Has anybody spotted any differences between the Technique re-release and re-re-release?

Does anyone have the deluxe reissue of movement without the glitch in The Him? I want to buy it but not with the glitch.

do the japan cds have the same problems?

I was at Amoeba Music in San Francisco last night and they had all five of the vinyl reissues in stock. There were two copies of Low-life using the wrong font and with that weird gap in the word "Order", but most of them were correct - so at least in the US they're fixing that problem.

I just received my corrected discs today. Is there a detailed list of what has been corrected and what hasn't (if any)?

I would also just like to make sure this is correct...

On the original Movement remastered CD, the second CD (with the singles) was not actually remastered at all, correct? Has anyone confirmed that the re-remaster has an actual remastered 2nd disc? This would be my main reason for purchasing the CD

Hi all, I read some of you have got their replacement discs sent by Dr. Rhino. I still get not a single reply to me e-mails. Can anyone help? Is this still the correct e-mailaddress? Neworder.D2C@warnermusic.com

Thanks!

I finally got my replacement CDs through the post today...

Haven't had a chance to listen to them and probably won't until -1 posts some graphs! :p

fonzie9 wrote: Hi all, I read some of you have got their replacement discs sent by Dr. Rhino. I still get not a single reply to me e-mails. Can anyone help? Is this still the correct e-mailaddress? Neworder.D2C@warnermusic.com

Thanks!

Same here. If they just replace the Yank ones and forget about us I'll be seriously pissed off. And they better provide a fixed version of Low Life as well. Maybe they are just stalling in the hope we all die of old age first?

404 error wrote:

fonzie9 wrote: Hi all, I read some of you have got their replacement discs sent by Dr. Rhino. I still get not a single reply to me e-mails. Can anyone help? Is this still the correct e-mailaddress? Neworder.D2C@warnermusic.com

Thanks!

Same here. If they just replace the Yank ones and forget about us I'll be seriously pissed off. And they better provide a fixed version of Low Life as well. Maybe they are just stalling in the hope we all die of old age first?

I used the same DrRhino e-mail address that's mentioned earlier on in here - based in the States.

Dr.Rhino@rhino.com

It takes some time for them to get back to you (a number of weeks - I *think* it took about 4 or 5 weeks for them to get back to me?), and they will then ask you for your address, which CD's you want replacing, and a digital photo of the CD's.

Then it'll take a week or so to post them to you from the States - they arrive without booklets in paper/plastic CD covers.

They'll replace all the bonus CD's, and Technique (not LowLife, strangely enough, so you'll have to live with the Sunrise drop-out).

Nick King wrote:

I used the same DrRhino e-mail address that's mentioned earlier on in here - based in the States.

Dr.Rhino@rhino.com

It takes some time for them to get back to you (a number of weeks - I *think* it took about 4 or 5 weeks for them to get back to me?), and they will then ask you for your address, which CD's you want replacing, and a digital photo of the CD's.

Then it'll take a week or so to post them to you from the States - they arrive without booklets in paper/plastic CD covers.

They'll replace all the bonus CD's, and Technique (not LowLife, strangely enough, so you'll have to live with the Sunrise drop-out).

Thanks for this. I'll have some more patience. Like I didn't have enough yet....

Nick King wrote:

I used the same DrRhino e-mail address that's mentioned earlier on in here - based in the States.

Dr.Rhino@rhino.com

It takes some time for them to get back to you (a number of weeks - I *think* it took about 4 or 5 weeks for them to get back to me?), and they will then ask you for your address, which CD's you want replacing, and a digital photo of the CD's.

Then it'll take a week or so to post them to you from the States - they arrive without booklets in paper/plastic CD covers.

They'll replace all the bonus CD's, and Technique (not LowLife, strangely enough, so you'll have to live with the Sunrise drop-out).

Thanks, I've emailed that address now, as the warners one got an initial acknowledgment and then nothing. Weird that they replace Technique, which has nothing obviously wrong with it, but not Low Life which has that glaringly obvious flaw.

Did they correct the L/R swaped channels on the original version of 'Ceremony' on the Movement bonus disc?

Yes, channels are swapped compared to 2008 release.

I have not made very deep study, but at least PCL 2-nd disc has NEW errors. First is in the beginning of "Murder" - it has some clitches (sounds like reel to reel tape is swithed on), followed 3 second silence. Then song starts. It makes track 4 second longer (4:02 instead of normal 3:58). Second is in the beginning of "The Beach". It (first second) sound wierd. Sound is different than original 12", Substance 1987 or 2008 edition.

I blame New Order for not taking these releases seriously, the importante members acted bitter and uncaring towards the band history catalogue, disrespecting fans. Peter Hook has had the worst attitude in this, and I bet has been the problem behind New Order's split.

These remasters are a plain joke, that we should make the following.

MAKE A LIST OF ALL DECENT RELEASED MASTERS in CD and vinyl. It's quite simple: Which copies of Low-Life are the best masters? Or which copy is *THE BEST* master? Should the vinyl pressings from 1985 be superior to the CD versions?

This is a very important thing to do, so we, as a community, can orientate people to spend their money on a valuable item. Of course that for people to judge which master is better, one has to have a bit of knowledge on Loudness War and CD mastering, able to identify pristine copies with the least errors.

Bring up the new thread:

LIST OF THE BEST CD/Vinyl MASTERS of NEW ORDER DISCOGRAPHY.An aggressive fan response towards the current Remasters.

Hi All,

Simply question, if I want to buy the 'fixed versions' of these 'from scratch', how do I know I am not getting versions with 'errors'?

Do they have different catalogue numbers or some other distinguishing feature?

Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere :-)

HELP!!

mikeyn wrote: Hi All,

Simply question, if I want to buy the 'fixed versions' of these 'from scratch', how do I know I am not getting versions with 'errors'?

Do they have different catalogue numbers or some other distinguishing feature?

Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere :-)

HELP!!

As far as I can work out, it's those that aren't in a plastic slipcase stating "Deluxe Edition" - I saw some in HMV, together with a copy of Technique in the plastic slipcase.

Don't quote me on this, however, as I bought the originals and eventually got round to e-mailing Dr Rhino to send me some replacement discs.

I ordered Movement direct from rhino.com and got the "fixed" version. I ordered PC&L from them so I shall soon see how it is. My best advice is order directly from them.

Malcolm Tucker wrote:

A bit unfair as Hooky was the only member of the band to come forward and face the whole Remasters debacle head on.

He did not take the front seat position. He said: I got a personal friend working on this. He gave a response to the fans but to me it was more of an embarassing excuse than really taking the lead on this. As far as what caused New Order's split, I am sure he has a fair share of being a very difficult person. Prove me wrong.

Malcolm Tucker wrote: This sounds bizarre. Is it like aggressive dancing?

Not bizarre. If they new versions are actually superior, then so be it. But if there is a pressing of an album which is actually superior, then let's face it.

The new versions are very very close to the Centredate pressings, but I have spotted that Centredate Low-Life is a bit channel unbalanced compared to the Rhino pressing. The Factory CD of Low-Life is too bright and was obviously mastered like crap. The Centredate copy has been replicated onto other pressings as well as the Factory copy which can be spotted easily by listening the amount of treble they have mastered this pressing, which is way too bright.

So I propose to make a list for each pressing and writing which copy it actually is. What is a digital clone of what, and so on...

Hookys friend who sorted these thing out is Claude Flowers. This person wrote a 1994 book about Joy Division and New Order (Dreams Never End), which was sort of an update of the 1984 book (Pleasures & Wayward Distractions).

DjBr wrote: The Factory CD of Low-Life is too bright and was obviously mastered like crap. The Centredate copy has been replicated onto other pressings as well as the Factory copy which can be spotted easily by listening the amount of treble they have mastered this pressing, which is way too bright.

What equipment do you use to listen to it? AFAIK that version of Low-Life has pre-emphasis, so it needs to be de-emphasised to get the proper sound.

WELL REMINDED. NOTE: There is no PRE flag in the SON16 Polish CD cuesheet.

I just have applied deemphasis using sox:

sox lowlife.wav lowlife-de.wav deemph

if you're in ubuntu, just do a 'sudo apt-get install sox' or if you are in windows, there is a installable at sox.sourceforge.net

The sound now matches the current pressings although with slightly less treble.

I have came across the Recycle project, which is what I am talking about: http://neworder-recycle.blogspot.com

I posted this on www.rhino.co.uk:

I have been told by someone at Universal in the Netherlands that you will be launching a special website for the exchange of the faulty 2 CD sets. I think it's about time we fans (who bought the collector's editions when released) will be getting replacements. Please help us, we really want good discs!! There are now corrected ones, and it's really disappointing I have been getting not a single reply to all the (friendly) e-mails I have sent over the past year.

Out of curiosity I ordered the 2009 release of the Low Life collector's edition CD from HMV Japan. To summarise:

The date on the digipak spine still reads (c) 2008, as do the discs, and the (p) date still reads 1983. It comes with an 'obi strip' as is customary in Japan. There are two additional booklets (the 'collector's editions' booklet giving track details and a lyric booklet (english/japanese) with the album artwork on the front). The discs are correctly labelled (i.e. the Low Life album has the Low Life typoraphy. Both are labelled 'Warner Music Japan'. The drop-out in Sunrise has been 'fixed' (i.e. botched, but it is slightly less noticeable than the original drop-out). The bonus disc sounds ok.

Oh - and I re-checked the vinyl edition for signs of repair on Sunrise. It has been repaired, but seems slightly less noticeable on vinyl.

Reading through the additional booklet, it looks like the Technique re-remaster was done by Frank Arkwright - all the original remasters were done by John Davis. Bonus discs were done by Giovanni Scatola.

Curiosity eh... Waste of ￥4,814. Rhino just e-mailed to say they will send me replacement discs from the US. Typical.

I'm sorry, but I just bring myself to dig through this thread for the answer to one question: What do I buy now as far as CDs are concerned?

I'd like high quality copies of all my New Order stuff and I can't afford a vinyl rig.

Regards

POWER, CORRUPTION, AND LIES - BONUS DISC, replacement version

Hello, everybody! I can confirm that on my replacement copy from Rhino, there is a new glitch/click audible at 1:41 in "The Beach." The original remaster does not have any errors I could detect in this track.

All other errors have been corrected, as far as my ears could tell. I'll post further updates as I listen to and check each replacement disc. I hope this helps.

Well, still not a single word for me concerning replacement discs. Are there more forum-members here that are still waiting for those?

I mailed all possible sources.

One employee from Holland mailed me there would be a launch of a special site for the exchange of the faulty discs. Does anyone know the whereabouts of that?

fonzie9 wrote: Well, still not a single word for me concerning replacement discs. Are there more forum-members here that are still waiting for those?

I mailed all possible sources.

One employee from Holland mailed me there would be a launch of a special site for the exchange of the faulty discs. Does anyone know the whereabouts of that?

Sweet FA here also.

Did iTunes ever get around to replacing the broken remasters with the corrected re-remasters?

Still not got any of these! They ALL look the SAME in HMV I don't need this pressure ON

i'd like to 2nd this question. i'd love to get all my NO on iTunes. i'm still working off my original CD's bought in the 80's and 90's.

how are the errors on the itunes versions?

How sad and starfish retentive you lot are. Most of these are available elsewhere anyway. Stop being such a bunch of saddo's and just enjoy what is classic classic wonderful music. Had this forum been here in 1986, you'd have moaned at Bernard Sumner for laughing on Every Little Counts. Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ian Edwards wrote: How sad and starfish retentive you lot are. Most of these are available elsewhere anyway. Stop being such a bunch of saddo's and just enjoy what is classic classic wonderful music. Had this forum been here in 1986, you'd have moaned at Bernard Sumner for laughing on Every Little Counts. Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you actually HEARD the remasters?

i asked for replacement discs last november.

i got around to sending photo proof this june. I'm lazy

they write back to say they'll send me discs in july.

i get the replacement discs.... soon? i hope :)

costello wrote: i asked for replacement discs last november.

i got around to sending photo proof this june. I'm lazy

they write back to say they'll send me discs in july.

i get the replacement discs.... soon? i hope :)

I got my discs TODAY! hooray for Dr Rhino.

Since I'm more interested in getting the remixes included in these, is it now safe to order them?

Apologies if already posted, but this is how you do a remaster.......

http://archive.beggars.com/releases/107/the-wonderful-and-frightening-world-of-the-fall-omnibus-edition

Just got it today. A work of art. Sonically perfect. Which for a Fall re-issue is a first........!

Hi new on the site, but not new to the issue. And would like an updated answer if possible please.

I bought all the collectors editions when they first came out. I too was horrified at the quality, even on disc 1 in many cases. So when I heard Rhino was only going to repair disc 2, I sent them all back and got refunds.

Dr Rhino did contact me at that time asking if I wanted new disc 2s, but I told them no need.

But I still want these again... Are the DB CDs on sale at Amazon or HMV the repaired ones, or are they still full of issues? I dont mind an odd "glitch" but the list I had before was too much...

Thanks and apologies for bringing this up again.

Grumps..

Can anyone post scans of the credits booklet that came with the "corrected" versions of the CDs? Or does anyone tell me where I can find scans of it?

Thanks!

just picked up 2 sealed versions in the record store today - Movement (no slipcase) and Technique (slipcase).

Movement appears to be the corrected version (can you guys confirm the cymbals are supposed to be in the right channel on the alt. version of Ceremony, as they're in the left channel in the Singles version - yet the glitches listed here don't appear on mine so I'm pretty sure I have the corrected version).

and Technique sounds godawful so I know it's the old one.

I've emailed Dr. Rhino with photo proof.. think they'll replace it?

CAN ANYBODY TELL ME WHAT IS BEST TO BUY THE "REMASTERED" CD:S OR TO BUY THE "ORIGINAL" VERSIONS?

Originals. The sound is just fine. The remastered ones are a nice package but that's about it.

1 MORE QUESTION:
DOES THE LOW-LIFE "REMASTERED" VERSION FEAUTURE THE 4 N.0. MEMBERS' PHOTOS WITH SEMI-TRANSPARENT PAPERS BETWEEN THEM, SO YOU CAN CHOOSE YOUR FAVOURITE MEMBER AS THE COVER?

ENGLISHWHELP wrote: 1 MORE QUESTION:
DOES THE LOW-LIFE "REMASTERED" VERSION FEAUTURE THE 4 N.0. MEMBERS' PHOTOS WITH SEMI-TRANSPARENT PAPERS BETWEEN THEM, SO YOU CAN CHOOSE YOUR FAVOURITE MEMBER AS THE COVER?

No tracing paper. The faces of the band appear on the foldout digipak.

the him wrote: The audio problem of "Loveless" was corrected before on this re-release: Technique cd Polydor K.K.. Catalog#: POCD-1887 year 1994 Japanese release

I listened to my copy and I'm able to confirm that.

Apologies for revisiting the remasters debacle, but I finally got round to playing the re-remastered version of Technique and can confirm they have fixed the pop 4 seconds in to Love Less...

Just having another look to see if there's been any good news.

Hmm

Yep... most definitely still holding onto my old originals