Me, I'm not into the idea but some of you will be no doubt... http://www.djhistory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53939
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Hooky doing Unknown Pleasures Live
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This is an archived legacy thread. Replies are closed, but the discussion is preserved.
SparkyJ wrote: fair play to Hooky....
He can peddle any wank and you dicks will cough.
I am starting to think that 'SparkyJ' is actually Bernard....
This will be great.
Say what you like about Hooky, but he doesn't rely on a load of sequenced backing shit when he puts a band together.
I'll be there
Does this have anything to do with this? http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/s/1197724_hooks_concert_tribute_to_death_of_iconic_singer
Or is that a different project?
I'm not interested in going, but still...
Nick King wrote:
So, I guess Freebass aren't touring, then?
I think we covered this a few times on Friday night, Nickos?
Pablo Bastardo wrote:
Nick King wrote:
So, I guess Freebass aren't touring, then?
I think we covered this a few times on Friday night, Nickos?
True!
Nick King wrote:
Pablo Bastardo wrote:
Nick King wrote:
So, I guess Freebass aren't touring, then?
I think we covered this a few times on Friday night, Nickos?
True!
So, are they, or not, then? 
Great cause and all that and I love JD/NO/Hooky more than is healthy but will someone please make him stop....
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote:
SparkyJ wrote: fair play to Hooky....
He can peddle any wank and you dicks will cough.
I am starting to think that 'SparkyJ' is actually Bernard....
leather_girl wrote: Does this have anything to do with this? http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/s/1197724_hooks_concert_tribute_to_death_of_iconic_singer
Or is that a different project?
I'm not interested in going, but still...
Yeah it's the same touring band that will play at Factory as the one that the flyer is promoting.
Nick King wrote: Oh deary me...
So, I guess Freebass aren't touring, then?
Don't speak too soon.
[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote:
leather_girl wrote: Does this have anything to do with this? http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk/news/s/1197724_hooks_concert_tribute_to_death_of_iconic_singer
Or is that a different project?
I'm not interested in going, but still...
Yeah it's the same touring band that will play at Factory as the one that the flyer is promoting.
OK, thank you for clarifying. :)
I'm a big fan of Hooky but this is a terrible idea.
Didn't he reject getting Monaco back together because he didnt want to look back?
Give us some Freebass mate and not a JD tribute band
put in true perspective, went to see Brian wison perform the great unreleased classic smile a few years back as he had put his demons behind him and recorded it,, sell out concerts well recieved,, dont think its scrapping the barrel at all. a great album and not a great many opportunities to play it live,, how many joy division concerts,,, just over a 100 .. i will be in the house,, asked factory about the may18th gig though didt get a response so that might be plastic division fans only,, just pray he comes to pompey,, dont hold me breath though,, hope and anchor,, now that would be something else.
what did you see there
79 order wrote: put in true perspective, went to see Brian wison perform the great unreleased classic smile a few years back as he had put his demons behind him and recorded it,, sell out concerts well recieved,, dont think its scrapping the barrel at all. a great album and not a great many opportunities to play it live,, how many joy division concerts,,, just over a 100 .. i will be in the house,, asked factory about the may18th gig though didt get a response so that might be plastic division fans only,, just pray he comes to pompey,, dont hold me breath though,, hope and anchor,, now that would be something else.
what did you see there
I also think it's a great idea. I wish New Order would have done this while they were still together. I saw Brian Wilson play Pet Sounds from start to finish, and it was quite an experience to hear and see the album like that. I wish I saw Waters' do his Dark Side of the Moon a few years ago. I think Unknown Pleasures fits this really well, and would definitely go see Hook do it if he ever brought it Stateside.
Joy Division are not the Beach Boys.
Peter Hook is not Brian Wilson.
This is not in any way not fucking embarrassing.
That is all.
Oh come on, It's not like anyone's died or anything.
Hang on, just seen the flaw in my argument.
[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote:
Erdel Kizilkay wrote: what a fuckin knob
Takes one to know one!
are you a 12 year old girl? do people still say that?
This is more than just DISORDERly conduct on Hooky's part - this has to be a CANDIDATE for one of the most avoidable gigs of the decade. With daft ideas like this no wonder Barney and Steve cast him out into the WILDERNESS. It would be indeed frightening to have an INSIGHT into Hooky's motives behind this.
If anyone attends - they would be better off getting so ratarsed that if they're asked to provide their memories of the event, it would be a blessing for them to truthfully reply "I REMEMBER NOTHING of it".
Aye thang yew.....
leefact25 wrote: This is more than just DISORDERly conduct on Hooky's part - this has to be a CANDIDATE for one of the most avoidable gigs of the decade. With daft ideas like this no wonder Barney and Steve cast him out into the WILDERNESS. It would be indeed frightening to have an INSIGHT into Hooky's motives behind this.
If anyone attends - they would be better off getting so ratarsed that if they're asked to provide their memories of the event, it would be a blessing for them to truthfully reply "I REMEMBER NOTHING of it".
Aye thang yew.....
Clever usage of song titles there.
I must admit that though I do not intent to (nor can I) stop anyone from going and I do not intent to (neither can I) stop Hooky from doing this, even if I did live in the UK, I wouldn't go.
People on here are criticising this, and rightfully so.
Even I think it's a step too far, although maybe Hooky's idea of remembering Ian is very different than other people's.
I go back and forth about this. On the one hand, it does seem sad in the same way all those 60s bands grew older and more baldly commercial, like the many iterations of Jefferson Airplane or Laser Floyd at the Hayden Planetarium for those who get my reference. Then again, we're all getting older, Joy Division is long gone and I'd probably go to it if it was stateside. Good or bad, Peter Hook is still pretty interesting playing the bass
Shakin' Baker wrote: Peter Hook is still pretty interesting playing the bass
Yes he is, he is the best on the planet but if he opts to sing lead vocals at these gigs another bass player will be playing a lot of his parts.
If this really needs to happen Hooky is best auditioning all the JD tribute bands, bin off the tribute bass player and hey presto....Hooky and the JD's.
Good point, a lot less interesting if he sings. Maybe he can stand a cardboard cutout of Ian up and pipe the vocals in
Joy Division are not the Beach Boys.
Peter Hook is not Brian Wilson.
That would explain the lack of close harmonies/references to surfing.
Sean Harris and Sam Riley have both just finished Brighton Rock so may be in need of some work.
This is well sad,whos gonna do the vocals,dont say Hooky.Hes taking a piece of musical history and seriously degrading it,all be it for a good cause.Im starting to wonder about Hooky,is he bored or something.I wonder if Bernard and Steve are involved,this seriously stinks
Jonny Donepoindatgunname wrote:
Joy Division are not the Beach Boys.
Peter Hook is not Brian Wilson.
That would explain the lack of close harmonies/references to surfing.
Sardonic. I like it.
It would also explains why Electronic/The Other Two/Revenge/Monaco/BadLoo/Hooky & the Boys/Flogging a Dead Singer/Whatever Abomination Comes Next never made a record that could even piss in the general vicinity of this one.
Pacific ocean blue,, now there a lesson in repackagingand thoughtfully issueing the release, dennis was a realy undervalued member of the beach boys and thats a beautifull collection of songs..
no joy division aint the Beach boys,, so.
Peter hook aint brian wilson,,and..
Were being given the chance to see one man who was involved ,interpretation of this classic debut album,, our Rog sold out many a time playing his take on dark side and the wall( no pun intended),, its beuatifill music,,i once spent an entire two weeks in march 1980 listening to it over and over again,,and will never stop.
A chance to watch,,Admire.....
shedhead wrote: Im starting to wonder about Hooky,is he bored or something.
no, he's a cash-hungry slag. Peter Hooker.
shedhead wrote: This is well sad,whos gonna do the vocals,dont say Hooky.Hes taking a piece of musical history and seriously degrading it,all be it for a good cause.Im starting to wonder about Hooky,is he bored or something.I wonder if Bernard and Steve are involved,this seriously stinks
From the sound of it, it doesn't really seem like Bernard and Steve are invited or involved. And from some of the interviews that I've read of Bernard (especially after last year or so), it seems that whilst Bernard doesn't intend to deny the past, he doesn't seem to want to live in the past or celebrate the past in this sort of manner. That's the impression I'm getting.
this will just further divide them all. i can't see sumner or morris liking this at all.
until the past few years, i couldn't see hooky doing this either.
playing the JD material with the other two living members of Joy Division was one thing.
but this is just some sort of necrophilia.
Peter, I love you, and always will cause i am a JD/NO nutter, but this is going too far. sorry.
Burt Burterson wrote:
shedhead wrote: Im starting to wonder about Hooky,is he bored or something.
no, he's a cash-hungry slag. Peter Hooker.
I think he is worried about the new Hacienda FAC251 making him skint.
"What do you think of Peter Hook’s new nightclub venture, Fac 251, that trades on the history of the Haçienda?
BS: What do I think of his club? Good luck to him you know. Let him do his own thing. [starts to laugh uncontrollably] You know, if that’s what he wants to do, then that’s fine. I don’t mind that at all. Yet it seems an odd thing to do after complaining about all the money he lost from the Haçienda first time round. But good luck to him, yeah."
From the interview posted today.
I hope the backstage brawl they are gonna have when they are both at the same show is put up on Youtube this summer.
Jonny Donepoindatgunname wrote:
Joy Division are not the Beach Boys.
Peter Hook is not Brian Wilson.
That would explain the lack of close harmonies/references to surfing.
Hey, there was "Surf Bass" on Revenge 2.0...
Tarbox23 wrote: I hope the backstage brawl they are gonna have when they are both at the same show is put up on Youtube this summer.
Distributed by Peter Hooks "Hacienda" video.
Tarbox23 wrote: I hope the backstage brawl they are gonna have when they are both at the same show is put up on Youtube this summer.
Maybe it will be like the end of Spinal Tap the movie...
"Do you feel that playing rock 'n' roll music keeps you a child? That is, keeps you in a state of arrested development?"
Could be worse, he could have done Closer.
Let's face it,for years New Order gigs have had a JD karaoke session as part of the set, so he might as well carry on with a new tribute band.
If this is what he want's to do for his mates memory then let him get on with it.
He's always been a cunt so he won't give a fuck anyway. Plus it's got to be better than pretending to DJ !
Karlos wrote: Could be worse, he could have done Closer.
Let's face it,for years New Order gigs have had a JD karaoke session as part of the set, so he might as well carry on with a new tribute band.
If this is what he want's to do for his mates memory then let him get on with it.
He's always been a cunt so he won't give a fuck anyway. Plus it's got to be better than pretending to DJ !
Karlos wrote: Could be worse, he could have done Closer.
Let's face it,for years New Order gigs have had a JD karaoke session as part of the set, so he might as well carry on with a new tribute band.
If this is what he want's to do for his mates memory then let him get on with it.
He's always been a cunt so he won't give a fuck anyway. Plus it's got to be better than pretending to DJ !
I dunno. I think Closer is superior to Unknown Pleasures in every way.
And its not Karaoke when New Order Plays a Joy Division song. New Order wrote Joy Division songs. Ian just wrote the lyrics. I'd rather hear 3/4ths of Joy Division play JD songs than anyone else.
Yes when you slander their dad you twat
Erdel Kizilkay wrote:
[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote:
Erdel Kizilkay wrote: what a fuckin knob
Takes one to know one!
are you a 12 year old girl? do people still say that?
Zachery Starkey wrote: I'd rather hear 3/4ths of Joy Division play JD songs than anyone else.
How about 1/4 of the band playing a complete JD album? Must admit I'm not mad keen on this "Unknown Pleasures Tour" at the moment but I suppose it's up to Hooky how he wants to commemorate his old mate's memory... same goes for Bernard and Steve.
I'm hoping once the 30th anniversary stuff passes the emphasis will shift back onto the "new" with the fast-approaching-mythical-status Freebass EP getting a release. I think most fans are in the mood to hear summit fresh and imagine most wouldn't mind dipping their hands in their pocket to hear it.
Zachery Starkey wrote:
And its not Karaoke when New Order Plays a Joy Division song. New Order wrote Joy Division songs. Ian just wrote the lyrics. I'd rather hear 3/4ths of Joy Division play JD songs than anyone else.
NO and Bloo play over a substantial backing track. Hooky tends to keep it far 'liver'. I don't really give a shit either way, I'll go to as many gigs as I can by either band.
Surface wrote: Yes when you slander their dad you twat
Erdel Kizilkay wrote:
[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote:
Erdel Kizilkay wrote: what a fuckin knob
Takes one to know one!
are you a 12 year old girl? do people still say that?
slander? i dont think so. also other people have said things id consider far worse about his dad on this forum. as for twat, well it takes one to etc etc
Lots of people may have a view about what Hooky does and that's fine but calling someones dad over steps the mark in my opinion. BTW I notice that you keep all your details private big man!
Erdel Kizilkay wrote:
Surface wrote: Yes when you slander their dad you twat
Erdel Kizilkay wrote:
[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote:
Erdel Kizilkay wrote: what a fuckin knob
Takes one to know one!
are you a 12 year old girl? do people still say that?
slander? i dont think so. also other people have said things id consider far worse about his dad on this forum. as for twat, well it takes one to etc etc
Big man? Firstly i dont know why he would want to come into a forum where he is likely to hear that kind of thing. Secondly i didnt actually know for certain that he was hookys son. Thirdly, even though im not in the habit of being intentionally rude about peoples parents, i dont think a forum should be censored so as not to offend certain people. But im sure he appreciates having you to stick up for him, big man.
Erdel Kizilkay wrote: Big man? Firstly i dont know why he would want to come into a forum where he is likely to hear that kind of thing. Secondly i didnt actually know for certain that he was hookys son. Thirdly, even though im not in the habit of being intentionally rude about peoples parents, i dont think a forum should be censored so as not to offend certain people. But im sure he appreciates having you to stick up for him, big man.
People may have said worse about Peter Hook but I think you were a touch harsh with your comment,Erdel. I totally disagree that by coming onto this forum that his son is likely to hear that kind of thing as it is a forum for New Order & Joy Division fans. Ok, some fans may not be agreeable to some projects that the band members undertake, but in the majority of cases, people are positive. Or why would you come on this forum? Why do you come on here? I think Surface's comments are valid and he is right to confront you for your comment, except for the bit about slander.
Well that's my two penny worth.
And as for the post:
Unknown Pleasures? Why not? He was involved in putting that album together. Why not tour it? Alright, it might creak a bit but I would rather see this than some ropey band of nobodys pretending to be them and making a complete hash of it.....
:bag:
The 30th of Closer is a few months away, so will there be a Closer celebration? Personally I agree that Closer is better, not to put Unknown Pleasures down. 30th for Unknown Pleasures was last year. Why not an overall short term celebration of Joy Division? Just kinda seems like Peter is exploiting the iconic status of Unknown Pleasures and Love Will Tear Us Apart for attention.
Hooky can have some fun and pay respect to his past band. Hell, he should have some fun at the Hacienda. Maybe should stay in the Hacienda. But if this Joy Division homage became a longer term project past a couple of shows, or if they released a CD or DVD of it, and along with the spoken word tour... this could get repulsive and exploitive. I can see why people are upset on the recent chain of events, hopefully things will stay in the tasteful range.
This year kicked off in fine fettle with Other Two revamps, BL gig/single news and The Light boding well for Freebass. Come on Hooky, don't give us another lesson in ancient history!
I certainly don't think this is messing with the sacrosanct or 'owt like that.
It's just a bit wank, innit.
0_o wrote: The 30th of Closer is a few months away, so will there be a Closer celebration? Personally I agree that Closer is better, not to put Unknown Pleasures down. 30th for Unknown Pleasures was last year. Why not an overall short term celebration of Joy Division? Just kinda seems like Peter is exploiting the iconic status of Unknown Pleasures and Love Will Tear Us Apart for attention.
Hooky can have some fun and pay respect to his past band. Hell, he should have some fun at the Hacienda. Maybe should stay in the Hacienda. But if this Joy Division homage became a longer term project past a couple of shows, or if they released a CD or DVD of it, and along with the spoken word tour... this could get repulsive and exploitive. I can see why people are upset on the recent chain of events, hopefully things will stay in the tasteful range.
UP is easier to play 
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: I certainly don't think this is messing with the sacrosanct or 'owt like that.
It's just a bit wank, innit.
In the same boat, could care less if Hooky does it, but I also could care less if Hooky does it.
well each to their own,i personally find it repugnant. but having said that, i dont think we should have to defend our parents,if i caused offence its only because i care, as most people on here do. having said that, i dont like idiots trying to have a go. i pays my money, ergo i deserve my point, and my point is that hooky is a dick for doing such a shamefull thing. its only my view, no one has to agree, but then no one has to try and get wide, thats how problems start, and we dont want that,do we so lets put the toys back in the pram.
I look forward to Alan Erasmus touring early Warsaw material played on a kazoo.
But not as much as I'm sure we all anticipate Caroline Aherne's series of special shows playing "Power, Corruption and Lies" in sequence, reinterpreted via the aural majesty of the fanny fart.
Fuck off.
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: I look forward to Alan Erasmus touring early Warsaw material played on a kazoo.
But not as much as I'm sure we all anticipate Caroline Aherne's series of special shows playing "Power, Corruption and Lies" in sequence, reinterpreted via the aural majesty of the fanny fart.
Fuck off.
I heard a rumour that Peter Saville is joining Terry Mason and Tony Tabac to ressurect The Stiff Kittens 
I will not post on this thread again but you don't seem to be able to stop insulting people. Idiot? - if someone called my dad a knob, it would only be the once - that was my point. There again - the internet is a great way to hide behind comments. That's me finished on this as we clearly have differing views.
Erdel Kizilkay wrote: well each to their own,i personally find it repugnant. but having said that, i dont think we should have to defend our parents,if i caused offence its only because i care, as most people on here do. having said that, i dont like idiots trying to have a go. i pays my money, ergo i deserve my point, and my point is that hooky is a dick for doing such a shamefull thing. its only my view, no one has to agree, but then no one has to try and get wide, thats how problems start, and we dont want that,do we so lets put the toys back in the pram.
i think things may have got a little out of hand, one thing is said and that leads to another then to another. mr hook junior i apologise for insulting your dad, its still a shit idea and im sure hes not actually a knob, but people use short hand for describing people, like knob twat etc if this insulted you then perhaps a thicker skin is needed. like i said before, i didnt actually know that family of the band commented on here, im not in the habit of being rude to or about people, just expressing myself in simple terms, as people do. and seeing as i have paid a fair part of your dads mortgage i think i can express an opinion, but in future i will try not be as blunt in my use of english. hope this clarifys the situation. so everyone is invited round to my house for tea and toast, if you could bring in some semi skimmed with you then that would be great. cheers
Actually, the really important New Order-related event of the year is the above two posters doing a one-off gig wherein they play an avant-garde 're-imagined' version "Brotherhood" as remixed in its entirety by John Robie.
The songs will be 'performed' via the medium of aggressive felching.
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: Actually, the really important New Order-related event of the year is the above two posters doing a one-off gig wherein they play an avant-garde 're-imagined' version "Brotherhood" as remixed in its entirety by John Robie.
The songs will be 'performed' via the medium of aggressive felching.
Martin, did you know an anagram of this chaps name is Botty Felcher? Interested to know a better anagram.
so, let me get this straight: we can't insult Hooky here cause his son reads it? who is saying this?
i'd imagine Jack would laugh at that. not like he is 8 years old or something. pretty sure he has heard it all at this point...
he knows how sordid and sick us fans are. :)
the censored version of this site for aunts and children and grandma is over that way somewhere. good luck.
p.s. and i can't imagine anyone posting here has any real true disdain for anyone in the band. we may call them twats or whatnot in some crazy post, but shit, i will respect each of them til the day i die, and after that too. their music changed my life.
Can I just point out that at no point did I ever say that I had been offended
I just put up a silly comment and people took it the wrong way!
[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote: Can I just point out that at no point did I ever say that I had been offended
I just put up a silly comment and people took it the wrong way!
So yer telling me I have to put the torch and pitchfork away?:\ohwell:
I thought someone came out with a great caustic one on the NME website..."Hooky in digging up the past shocker" Quality.
Personally I have no beef with this whatsoever.I'm there!
After not much deliberation,I've decided I'm going to get a portion of this into my ribs.Hooky's making the effort to tour the provinces,what's not to like? It's not as if he's doing that DJ'ing stuff thingy-god willing.
Bit gutted about missing the quiz down my local on the same night,be we all make sacrifices.
I know for a fact I'll have a right good night. Alright,it would be better if Fradders come with me,but he's a pre-judging stay away gay.....evidently.
FDISK wrote: Oh come on, It's not like anyone's died or anything.
Hang on, just seen the flaw in my argument.
hahahahaha, you'r sooo funny; that was a knee slapper. That joke wasn't in bad taste or anything..............
New Order wrote Joy Division songs. Ian just wrote the lyrics.
That is not completely true. Ian spotted all the music during rehearsals. Ian did a lot more then just write the lyrics! If it wasn't for Ian and his ear for the music while they were jamming during rehearsals, a lot of the music, that was later composed into those songs, would of been played once and then lost forever. Bernard composed the songs, once Ian dictated what he liked; Ian was the eyes, ears, and voice of that band. Once he passed, their distinctive sound was lost forever.
Someones clearly missed the Disorder of this all, this "Hacienda" Shadowplay has left me seeking Isolation.
Darkman wrote:
New Order wrote Joy Division songs. Ian just wrote the lyrics.
That is not completely true. Ian spotted all the music during rehearsals. Ian did a lot more then just write the lyrics! If it wasn't for Ian and his ear for the music while they were jamming during rehearsals, a lot of the music, that was later composed into those songs, would of been played once and then lost forever. Bernard composed the songs, once Ian dictated what he liked; Ian was the eyes, ears, and voice of that band. Once he passed, their distinctive sound was lost forever.
Ian had ideas for arrangements of songs, which is not the same as actually composing songs. Are you a musician, by chance? Have you ever written a song?
The music of Joy Division was written by Sumner, Hook, and Morris. The musical idea for a song would come from Hooky or Sumner, Sumner would arrange the music into an actual song, and then Ian would sing his lyrics over it, adding the vocal melody. Yes, sometimes he spotted riffs during jam sessions, this does not make him the eyes and ear of the band. He had a distintive voice and wrote amazing lyrics, but the actual music was composed by the members of New Order. Ian was a non musical member of the band, for the most part.
And no, once Ian killed himself, the bands distinctive sound was not lost, it evolved into New Order. If Ian hadn't died, Joy Division would have probably ended up sounding like New Order, with Ians voice instead of Bernards.
Darkman wrote:
New Order wrote Joy Division songs. Ian just wrote the lyrics.
That is not completely true. Ian spotted all the music during rehearsals. Ian did a lot more then just write the lyrics! If it wasn't for Ian and his ear for the music while they were jamming during rehearsals, a lot of the music, that was later composed into those songs, would of been played once and then lost forever. Bernard composed the songs, once Ian dictated what he liked; Ian was the eyes, ears, and voice of that band. Once he passed, their distinctive sound was lost forever.
Not that much. But Ian had a lot of influence on JD's sound, mainly on Hooky's bass.
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Darkman wrote:
New Order wrote Joy Division songs. Ian just wrote the lyrics.
That is not completely true. Ian spotted all the music during rehearsals. Ian did a lot more then just write the lyrics! If it wasn't for Ian and his ear for the music while they were jamming during rehearsals, a lot of the music, that was later composed into those songs, would of been played once and then lost forever. Bernard composed the songs, once Ian dictated what he liked; Ian was the eyes, ears, and voice of that band. Once he passed, their distinctive sound was lost forever.
Ian had ideas for arrangements of songs, which is not the same as actually composing songs. Are you a musician, by chance? Have you ever written a song?
The music of Joy Division was written by Sumner, Hook, and Morris. The musical idea for a song would come from Hooky or Sumner, Sumner would arrange the music into an actual song, and then Ian would sing his lyrics over it, adding the vocal melody. Yes, sometimes he spotted riffs during jam sessions, this does not make him the eyes and ear of the band. He had a distintive voice and wrote amazing lyrics, but the actual music was composed by the members of New Order. Ian was a non musical member of the band, for the most part.
And no, once Ian killed himself, the bands distinctive sound was not lost, it evolved into New Order. If Ian hadn't died, Joy Division would have probably ended up sounding like New Order, with Ians voice instead of Bernards.
"Ian used to spot all the riffs", remembers Peter Hook, "we'd jam, he'd stop us and say, that was good, play it again. He spotted "Insight, "She's Lost Control", all of them. It was really weird, if it hadn't been for him and his ear, we might have played them once and never played them again. You didn't even know you'd played it, half the time. You didn't notice what you're doing when you’re jamming. It's unconscious, but he was conscious". "Ian never wrote any music, but he a great orchestrator", says Bernard Sumner, "he gave us direction. He was very passionate in those moments".
Straight from Hooky, and Bernard. Like I said, he gave them direction and dictated what he liked! I'm not down-playing what the other members did, but Ian did a lot more then just write and sing the lyrics; as you can see from the above interview. That was my point, for what one of the other members said "Ian just wrote the lyrics" and that is simplely not true! Also, I don't think, if Ian would of lived, that Joy Division would of ever sounded anything like "Blue Monday"!. I think New Order's 1st album, "Movement" was closer to the JD sound. I don't agree with you at all, when you said that "Joy Division would have probably ended up sounding like New Order, with Ians voice instead of Bernards". I do agree that the songs were composed by the band, like I said above, but mainly by Barnard and of coruse Ian gave his 2 cents! And of coruse there were songs that Ian had very little imput on, one that comes to mind is "Candidate". "Candidate" was written while Ian was going to the bathroom; written during the "Unknown Pleasures" sessions. Once hearing it, returning from the bathroom, he wrote the lyrics. But has a whole Ian played a huge part in the shaping of those songs.............
Remember what Morris said in NO's PP&F MTV video, how difficult was writing songs without Ian on Movement.
Big Mouth Julio wrote: Remember what Morris said in NO's PP&F MTV video, how difficult was writing songs without Ian on Movement.
Very true; well spotted Julio!
Darkman wrote:
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Darkman wrote:
New Order wrote Joy Division songs. Ian just wrote the lyrics.
That is not completely true. Ian spotted all the music during rehearsals. Ian did a lot more then just write the lyrics! If it wasn't for Ian and his ear for the music while they were jamming during rehearsals, a lot of the music, that was later composed into those songs, would of been played once and then lost forever. Bernard composed the songs, once Ian dictated what he liked; Ian was the eyes, ears, and voice of that band. Once he passed, their distinctive sound was lost forever.
Ian had ideas for arrangements of songs, which is not the same as actually composing songs. Are you a musician, by chance? Have you ever written a song?
The music of Joy Division was written by Sumner, Hook, and Morris. The musical idea for a song would come from Hooky or Sumner, Sumner would arrange the music into an actual song, and then Ian would sing his lyrics over it, adding the vocal melody. Yes, sometimes he spotted riffs during jam sessions, this does not make him the eyes and ear of the band. He had a distintive voice and wrote amazing lyrics, but the actual music was composed by the members of New Order. Ian was a non musical member of the band, for the most part.
And no, once Ian killed himself, the bands distinctive sound was not lost, it evolved into New Order. If Ian hadn't died, Joy Division would have probably ended up sounding like New Order, with Ians voice instead of Bernards.
"Ian used to spot all the riffs", remembers Peter Hook, "we'd jam, he'd stop us and say, that was good, play it again. He spotted "Insight, "She's Lost Control", all of them. It was really weird, if it hadn't been for him and his ear, we might have played them once and never played them again. You didn't even know you'd played it, half the time. You didn't notice what you're doing when you’re jamming. It's unconscious, but he was conscious". "Ian never wrote any music, but he a great orchestrator", says Bernard Sumner, "he gave us direction. He was very passionate in those moments".
Straight from Hooky, and Bernard. Like I said, he gave them direction and dictated what he liked! I'm not down-playing what the other members did, but Ian did a lot more then just write and sing the lyrics; as you can see from the above interview. That was my point, for what one of the other members said "Ian just wrote the lyrics" and that is simplely not true! Also, I don't think, if Ian would of lived, that Joy Division would of ever sounded anything like "Blue Monday"!. I think New Order's 1st album, "Movement" was closer to the JD sound. I don't agree with you at all, when you said that "Joy Division would have probably ended up sounding like New Order, with Ians voice instead of Bernards". I do agree that the songs were composed by the band, like I said above, but mainly by Barnard and of coruse Ian gave his 2 cents! And of coruse there were songs that Ian had very little imput on, one that comes to mind is "Candidate". "Candidate" was written while Ian was going to the bathroom; written during the "Unknown Pleasures" sessions. Once hearing it, returning from the bathroom, he wrote the lyrics. But has a whole Ian played a huge part in the shaping of those songs.............
Yes, I basically said as much. Ian spotted riffs and such, the actual music was written by the other three. Arranging and composing are not the same thing.
The members of New Order themselves have said that even if Ian had lived, they would have gone in a more electronic direction. The second side of Closer also points to this.
It's matter of opinion.
I think New Order were vastly superior to Joy Division. Matter of fact, I find some of Joy Divisions songs to be....boring. Yes. What a poor fan I am.
Its just a matter of taste. To me, Joy Division and New Order are the same band. They just got better as they went along. I really love 8 or 9 Joy Division songs. I like almost everything New Order put out.
Zachery Starkey wrote: I think New Order were vastly superior to Joy Division. Matter of fact, I find some of Joy Divisions songs to be....boring. Yes. What a poor fan I am.
Don't worry, you're not the only one! 
Nick King wrote:
Zachery Starkey wrote: I think New Order were vastly superior to Joy Division. Matter of fact, I find some of Joy Divisions songs to be....boring. Yes. What a poor fan I am.
Don't worry, you're not the only one!
Prepare for the wrath of Darkman!
Joy Division and New Order are not the same band in my opinion, mainly after OPower Corruption & Lies. Remember New Dawn Fades: "a change of speed, a change of style, a change of scene with no regrets". I would say New Order is a development of Joy Division sound.
I would say that Joy Division would go farther then New Order did if Ian hadn't died. How a band with only three years of existence and two albums can be so influential to groups like Cure, Interpol, Nine Inch Nails, U2 is something awesome?
Joy Division was more consistent and perfect than New Order, though I think New Order songs are much more happier
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Darkman wrote:
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Darkman wrote:
New Order wrote Joy Division songs. Ian just wrote the lyrics.
That is not completely true. Ian spotted all the music during rehearsals. Ian did a lot more then just write the lyrics! If it wasn't for Ian and his ear for the music while they were jamming during rehearsals, a lot of the music, that was later composed into those songs, would of been played once and then lost forever. Bernard composed the songs, once Ian dictated what he liked; Ian was the eyes, ears, and voice of that band. Once he passed, their distinctive sound was lost forever.
Ian had ideas for arrangements of songs, which is not the same as actually composing songs. Are you a musician, by chance? Have you ever written a song?
The music of Joy Division was written by Sumner, Hook, and Morris. The musical idea for a song would come from Hooky or Sumner, Sumner would arrange the music into an actual song, and then Ian would sing his lyrics over it, adding the vocal melody. Yes, sometimes he spotted riffs during jam sessions, this does not make him the eyes and ear of the band. He had a distintive voice and wrote amazing lyrics, but the actual music was composed by the members of New Order. Ian was a non musical member of the band, for the most part.
And no, once Ian killed himself, the bands distinctive sound was not lost, it evolved into New Order. If Ian hadn't died, Joy Division would have probably ended up sounding like New Order, with Ians voice instead of Bernards.
"Ian used to spot all the riffs", remembers Peter Hook, "we'd jam, he'd stop us and say, that was good, play it again. He spotted "Insight, "She's Lost Control", all of them. It was really weird, if it hadn't been for him and his ear, we might have played them once and never played them again. You didn't even know you'd played it, half the time. You didn't notice what you're doing when you’re jamming. It's unconscious, but he was conscious". "Ian never wrote any music, but he a great orchestrator", says Bernard Sumner, "he gave us direction. He was very passionate in those moments".
Straight from Hooky, and Bernard. Like I said, he gave them direction and dictated what he liked! I'm not down-playing what the other members did, but Ian did a lot more then just write and sing the lyrics; as you can see from the above interview. That was my point, for what one of the other members said "Ian just wrote the lyrics" and that is simplely not true! Also, I don't think, if Ian would of lived, that Joy Division would of ever sounded anything like "Blue Monday"!. I think New Order's 1st album, "Movement" was closer to the JD sound. I don't agree with you at all, when you said that "Joy Division would have probably ended up sounding like New Order, with Ians voice instead of Bernards". I do agree that the songs were composed by the band, like I said above, but mainly by Barnard and of coruse Ian gave his 2 cents! And of coruse there were songs that Ian had very little imput on, one that comes to mind is "Candidate". "Candidate" was written while Ian was going to the bathroom; written during the "Unknown Pleasures" sessions. Once hearing it, returning from the bathroom, he wrote the lyrics. But has a whole Ian played a huge part in the shaping of those songs.............
Yes, I basically said as much. Ian spotted riffs and such, the actual music was written by the other three. Arranging and composing are not the same thing.
The members of New Order themselves have said that even if Ian had lived, they would have gone in a more electronic direction. The second side of Closer also points to this.
It's matter of opinion.
I think New Order were vastly superior to Joy Division. Matter of fact, I find some of Joy Divisions songs to be....boring. Yes. What a poor fan I am.
Its just a matter of taste. To me, Joy Division and New Order are the same band. They just got better as they went along. I really love 8 or 9 Joy Division songs. I like almost everything New Order put out.
That is what these forums are all about; having your own view. In my own opinion, I think Joy Division were vastly superior to New Order! I don't see how Joy Division and New Order can even be considered the same band. Joy Division had a deep and dark sound, and New Order played electronic dance music! New Order after like 1982 or 1983, just went down a path, I wouldn't follow. Songs like "True Faith", "Round&Round", "Mr. Disco" "Blue Monday" and "Bizzare Love Triangle", to me, confirm how diffrent both bands were. New Order just went down a diffrent path; I don't think the music evolved; post-punk to dance music is not a natural progression. I think New Order wanted to put the past behind them, and the pain, and they embraced a new sound. In my mind, Ian would of never went down that path, eveything he wrote was tainted with darkness, and dance songs are anything but. New Order is not deep enough for me! And even though the members of New Order themselves have said that even if Ian had lived, they would have gone in a more electronic direction; I think it would of been more like "In A Lonely Place" or "Decades", it would of been deep and very dark; not electronic dance music. I mean, could you imagine Ian going for dance music, I think not! The lyrics Ian would of wrote, would not of been light-hearted!
I'm only guessing, but I imagine one thing Mr Curtis would not have done was write "would of" or "could of". Again, this is guesswork, but that's because he wasn't an illiterate fucking cunt.
It's "would have" or "would've", for fuck's fucking sake. Perhaps Hooky should tour "Basic English for Septic Cretins" instead?
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: I'm only guessing, but I imagine one thing Mr Curtis would not have done was write "would of" or "could of". Again, this is guesswork, but that's because he wasn't an illiterate fucking cunt.
It's "would have" or "would've", for fuck's fucking sake. Perhaps Hooky should tour "Basic English for Septic Cretins" instead?
Well your a sorry fuck, aren't you. The spelling police are out in full bloom, aren't they Claycunt. So since you don't like my opinion, you want to point out a few miss spelled words...Lmfao. I would be the first one to admit, I can't spell worth a shit; thanks O.K. there are worst qualities one could have in life! Like running around and acting like a little fucking bitch over some miss-spelled words; pull your fucking knickers up sweatheart!
Barney and company put out better material as New Order. Theres no need to wallow in misery, or try to inflict it into every song you write. All of them evolved within New Order, and gave us the best damn pop music of their time. Like you all said, it's a matter of opinion but it's a bit childish to be "butthurt" on the internet because of opinions.
We can`t compare New Order to Joy Division cause they are totally different bands with different styles of music. It's a question of taste indeed.
Darkman wrote:
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: I'm only guessing, but I imagine one thing Mr Curtis would not have done was write "would of" or "could of". Again, this is guesswork, but that's because he wasn't an illiterate fucking cunt.
It's "would have" or "would've", for fuck's fucking sake. Perhaps Hooky should tour "Basic English for Septic Cretins" instead?
Well your a sorry fuck, aren't you. The spelling police are out in full bloom, aren't they Claycunt. So since you don't like my opinion, you want to point out a few miss spelled words...Lmfao. I would be the first one to admit, I can't spell worth a shit; thanks O.K. there are worst qualities one could have in life! Like running around and acting like a little fucking bitch over some miss-spelled words; pull your fucking knickers up sweatheart!
To Darkman: Calm down... you need to get used to this site.If you can't handle the atmosphere (no pun intended) on this site then get the fuck out of here.
leather_girl wrote:
Darkman wrote:
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: I'm only guessing, but I imagine one thing Mr Curtis would not have done was write "would of" or "could of". Again, this is guesswork, but that's because he wasn't an illiterate fucking cunt.
It's "would have" or "would've", for fuck's fucking sake. Perhaps Hooky should tour "Basic English for Septic Cretins" instead?
Well your a sorry fuck, aren't you. The spelling police are out in full bloom, aren't they Claycunt. So since you don't like my opinion, you want to point out a few miss spelled words...Lmfao. I would be the first one to admit, I can't spell worth a shit; thanks O.K. there are worst qualities one could have in life! Like running around and acting like a little fucking bitch over some miss-spelled words; pull your fucking knickers up sweatheart!
To Darkman: Calm down...
Methinks the bitterness from the "Pictures" ordeal has left him a bit edgy.
michael preda wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
Darkman wrote:
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: I'm only guessing, but I imagine one thing Mr Curtis would not have done was write "would of" or "could of". Again, this is guesswork, but that's because he wasn't an illiterate fucking cunt.
It's "would have" or "would've", for fuck's fucking sake. Perhaps Hooky should tour "Basic English for Septic Cretins" instead?
Well your a sorry fuck, aren't you. The spelling police are out in full bloom, aren't they Claycunt. So since you don't like my opinion, you want to point out a few miss spelled words...Lmfao. I would be the first one to admit, I can't spell worth a shit; thanks O.K. there are worst qualities one could have in life! Like running around and acting like a little fucking bitch over some miss-spelled words; pull your fucking knickers up sweatheart!
To Darkman: Calm down...
Methinks the bitterness from the "Pictures" ordeal has left him a bit edgy.
Probably
leather_girl wrote:
Darkman wrote:
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: I'm only guessing, but I imagine one thing Mr Curtis would not have done was write "would of" or "could of". Again, this is guesswork, but that's because he wasn't an illiterate fucking cunt.
It's "would have" or "would've", for fuck's fucking sake. Perhaps Hooky should tour "Basic English for Septic Cretins" instead?
Well your a sorry fuck, aren't you. The spelling police are out in full bloom, aren't they Claycunt. So since you don't like my opinion, you want to point out a few miss spelled words...Lmfao. I would be the first one to admit, I can't spell worth a shit; thanks O.K. there are worst qualities one could have in life! Like running around and acting like a little fucking bitch over some miss-spelled words; pull your fucking knickers up sweatheart!
To Darkman: Calm down...
Leather girl, I'm not going to just sit there and say nothing while Claycunt calls me an "an illiterate fucking cunt", just for having an opinion. Why aren't you telling Claycunt to calm down, for calling me an "an illiterate fucking cunt" over a few miss-spelled words? I need to get use to this site; it seems like I'm following right along with the atmosphere on this site. It's funny, I have heard a lot of people use the phrase "it went down-hill in true NOOL fashion once it reached these parts", like it's something to be proud of, that half the members on this site have no mannors. So why is it not O.K. for someone to defend themselves on this site, Leathercunt? If you can't handle that I'm never going to take anyone's shit, then fuck off! And 90% of me being on edge, has to do with the treatment I found on this site when I came forward with a certain JD cd. You would never find the kind of disrespect found on this site, on JDC. I wonder who is going to respond and say, "Then fucking stick to posting on JDC"?????????????I'm on pins and needles!
Darkman wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
Darkman wrote:
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: I'm only guessing, but I imagine one thing Mr Curtis would not have done was write "would of" or "could of". Again, this is guesswork, but that's because he wasn't an illiterate fucking cunt.
It's "would have" or "would've", for fuck's fucking sake. Perhaps Hooky should tour "Basic English for Septic Cretins" instead?
Well your a sorry fuck, aren't you. The spelling police are out in full bloom, aren't they Claycunt. So since you don't like my opinion, you want to point out a few miss spelled words...Lmfao. I would be the first one to admit, I can't spell worth a shit; thanks O.K. there are worst qualities one could have in life! Like running around and acting like a little fucking bitch over some miss-spelled words; pull your fucking knickers up sweatheart!
To Darkman: Calm down...
Leather girl, I'm not going to just sit there and say nothing while Claycunt calls me an "an illiterate fucking cunt", just for having an opinion. So with that said, I'm not that guy, so get the fuck out of my face! Why aren't you telling Claycunt to calm down, for calling me an "an illiterate fucking cunt" over a few miss-spelled words?
I've seen other posts that Clayhead Liberation Faction has posted on these boards, and his post on this thread didn't seem that unusual to me. The reply he send to you about grammar was probably his sense of humour. :computer3:
leather_girl wrote:
Darkman wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
Darkman wrote:
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: I'm only guessing, but I imagine one thing Mr Curtis would not have done was write "would of" or "could of". Again, this is guesswork, but that's because he wasn't an illiterate fucking cunt.
It's "would have" or "would've", for fuck's fucking sake. Perhaps Hooky should tour "Basic English for Septic Cretins" instead?
Well your a sorry fuck, aren't you. The spelling police are out in full bloom, aren't they Claycunt. So since you don't like my opinion, you want to point out a few miss spelled words...Lmfao. I would be the first one to admit, I can't spell worth a shit; thanks O.K. there are worst qualities one could have in life! Like running around and acting like a little fucking bitch over some miss-spelled words; pull your fucking knickers up sweatheart!
To Darkman: Calm down...
Leather girl, I'm not going to just sit there and say nothing while Claycunt calls me an "an illiterate fucking cunt", just for having an opinion. So with that said, I'm not that guy, so get the fuck out of my face! Why aren't you telling Claycunt to calm down, for calling me an "an illiterate fucking cunt" over a few miss-spelled words?
I've seen other posts that Clayhead Liberation Faction has posted on these boards, and his post on this thread didn't seem that unusual to me. The reply he send to you about grammar was probably his sense of humour. :computer3:
I'm not going to check someones history, everytime they talk shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!I have better things to do..........
Darkman wrote:
..calling me an "an illiterate fucking cunt" over a few miss-spelled words?
Poetry
Darkman wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
Darkman wrote:
Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: I'm only guessing, but I imagine one thing Mr Curtis would not have done was write "would of" or "could of". Again, this is guesswork, but that's because he wasn't an illiterate fucking cunt.
It's "would have" or "would've", for fuck's fucking sake. Perhaps Hooky should tour "Basic English for Septic Cretins" instead?
BLUB BLUB BLUB WAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH WAAAAAAAAAAAHH!
To Darkman: Calm down...
BLUB BLUB BLUB WAAAAAAAAAAAAAHH WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
corrected
JDC dont have the lovely sort we have here. You'll get used to it, or just whine it really doesn't affect us any.
michael preda wrote: JDC dont have the lovely sort we have here. You'll get used to it, or just whine it really doesn't affect us any.
Lmfao........thanks, your to kind!
Darkman wrote:
michael preda wrote: JDC dont have the lovely sort we have here. You'll get used to it, or just whine it really doesn't affect us any.
Lmfao........thanks, your to kind!
It's a gift.
michael preda wrote:
Darkman wrote:
michael preda wrote: JDC dont have the lovely sort we have here. You'll get used to it, or just whine it really doesn't affect us any.
Lmfao........thanks, your to kind!
It's a gift.
I'll take it!
Darkman wrote:
michael preda wrote:
Darkman wrote:
michael preda wrote: JDC dont have the lovely sort we have here. You'll get used to it, or just whine it really doesn't affect us any.
Lmfao........thanks, your to kind!
It's a gift.
I'll take it!
Glad you're obliging.
Darkman wrote:
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Darkman wrote:
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Darkman wrote:
New Order wrote Joy Division songs. Ian just wrote the lyrics.
That is not completely true. Ian spotted all the music during rehearsals. Ian did a lot more then just write the lyrics! If it wasn't for Ian and his ear for the music while they were jamming during rehearsals, a lot of the music, that was later composed into those songs, would of been played once and then lost forever. Bernard composed the songs, once Ian dictated what he liked; Ian was the eyes, ears, and voice of that band. Once he passed, their distinctive sound was lost forever.
Ian had ideas for arrangements of songs, which is not the same as actually composing songs. Are you a musician, by chance? Have you ever written a song?
The music of Joy Division was written by Sumner, Hook, and Morris. The musical idea for a song would come from Hooky or Sumner, Sumner would arrange the music into an actual song, and then Ian would sing his lyrics over it, adding the vocal melody. Yes, sometimes he spotted riffs during jam sessions, this does not make him the eyes and ear of the band. He had a distintive voice and wrote amazing lyrics, but the actual music was composed by the members of New Order. Ian was a non musical member of the band, for the most part.
And no, once Ian killed himself, the bands distinctive sound was not lost, it evolved into New Order. If Ian hadn't died, Joy Division would have probably ended up sounding like New Order, with Ians voice instead of Bernards.
"Ian used to spot all the riffs", remembers Peter Hook, "we'd jam, he'd stop us and say, that was good, play it again. He spotted "Insight, "She's Lost Control", all of them. It was really weird, if it hadn't been for him and his ear, we might have played them once and never played them again. You didn't even know you'd played it, half the time. You didn't notice what you're doing when you’re jamming. It's unconscious, but he was conscious". "Ian never wrote any music, but he a great orchestrator", says Bernard Sumner, "he gave us direction. He was very passionate in those moments".
Straight from Hooky, and Bernard. Like I said, he gave them direction and dictated what he liked! I'm not down-playing what the other members did, but Ian did a lot more then just write and sing the lyrics; as you can see from the above interview. That was my point, for what one of the other members said "Ian just wrote the lyrics" and that is simplely not true! Also, I don't think, if Ian would of lived, that Joy Division would of ever sounded anything like "Blue Monday"!. I think New Order's 1st album, "Movement" was closer to the JD sound. I don't agree with you at all, when you said that "Joy Division would have probably ended up sounding like New Order, with Ians voice instead of Bernards". I do agree that the songs were composed by the band, like I said above, but mainly by Barnard and of coruse Ian gave his 2 cents! And of coruse there were songs that Ian had very little imput on, one that comes to mind is "Candidate". "Candidate" was written while Ian was going to the bathroom; written during the "Unknown Pleasures" sessions. Once hearing it, returning from the bathroom, he wrote the lyrics. But has a whole Ian played a huge part in the shaping of those songs.............
Yes, I basically said as much. Ian spotted riffs and such, the actual music was written by the other three. Arranging and composing are not the same thing.
The members of New Order themselves have said that even if Ian had lived, they would have gone in a more electronic direction. The second side of Closer also points to this.
It's matter of opinion.
I think New Order were vastly superior to Joy Division. Matter of fact, I find some of Joy Divisions songs to be....boring. Yes. What a poor fan I am.
Its just a matter of taste. To me, Joy Division and New Order are the same band. They just got better as they went along. I really love 8 or 9 Joy Division songs. I like almost everything New Order put out.
That is what these forums are all about; having your own view. In my own opinion, I think Joy Division were vastly superior to New Order! I don't see how Joy Division and New Order can even be considered the same band. Joy Division had a deep and dark sound, and New Order played electronic dance music! New Order after like 1982 or 1983, just went down a path, I wouldn't follow. Songs like "True Faith", "Round&Round", "Mr. Disco" "Blue Monday" and "Bizzare Love Triangle", to me, confirm how diffrent both bands were. New Order just went down a diffrent path; I don't think the music evolved; post-punk to dance music is not a natural progression. I think New Order wanted to put the past behind them, and the pain, and they embraced a new sound. In my mind, Ian would of never went down that path, eveything he wrote was tainted with darkness, and dance songs are anything but. New Order is not deep enough for me! And even though the members of New Order themselves have said that even if Ian had lived, they would have gone in a more electronic direction; I think it would of been more like "In A Lonely Place" or "Decades", it would of been deep and very dark; not electronic dance music. I mean, could you imagine Ian going for dance music, I think not! The lyrics Ian would of wrote, would not of been light-hearted!
Well, I find Joy Division's "darkness" to be a little....one dimensional, shall we say, and tiring after a while. Joy Division made songs in shades of Grey and Black, New Order made songs for the whole rainbow. There are many emotions in life, not just darkness. I think it takes depth and maturity to make happy and sad songs (and art in general).
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As a life long New Order/Joy Division fan, I come to these forums looking for intelligent discussions on all aspects of my favorite band. Sometimes I agree with people, sometimes not, but I believe it is a mark of civility, intelligence, and maturity to be happy to disagree and still have a good discussion.
