Peter Saville - Rat or Cat?

A couple of years ago my girlfriend went to Manchester on a design related mission. Amongst the days activities was to hear Peter Saville discuss his artwork and how it had evolved throughout the years - also, he was to discuss his involvment with Joy Division / New Order and the whole Factory experience. Personally, I think 'the Sav's' one of the UK's most underated design pioneers, which is a shame, as his work stands head and shoulders above mostly all 'other' artwork produced definately in the 70's and early 80's and to a lesser extent the 90's in the music world. Anyway, I was very excited about this prospect and couldn't wait for her to get home and tell me how good he was and what he was talking about.

Unfortunately, when he began his speech, he was so far off the microphone nobody could here him, and despite efforts to try to get him near the mic. he steadfastly refused to simply put his gob on the fucking tannoy. So, the talk was a waste of time - and at the party afterwards (a few small cocktail sausage rolls and bowls of crisps etc.) my bird stood next to him for about an hour but never engaged in conversation. What a bastard I thought, what a wasted opportunity. When I asked her why she didn't ask him anything (even though I'd asked her to ask him about a billion things) she said, no, he's shit, he gets everyone else to do his work.

Yes, but that's not the point now is it.

Co-incidentally, you may or may not be intersted to know that he looked like a scruffy old mule. Which makes me think he looked like a cool cat... beacuse he is a very, very cool rat.

Huntsy, I don't really care for the interior photos in GR. Do you?

He's just a big puddy cat.

mmmmm, not wanting to disagree with you all day long Patty, but you've got to get into the mind of Saville here. If New Order have gone back to their roots then accordingly, so should Saville with the artwork. The interior imagery used is 'at first glance' dodgy... now, why is it dodgy? - It is my belief that this 'slightly indifferent' use of imagery and most importantly quality of imagery is there for a purpose. Saville has used back to basics seepier photos for a back to basics album Patso. Looking at the front cover, most 'pop' people will say, hey, I can do that so that's shit. Others may say, that is a legendary mark of a desginer of deep quality conveying a strong message of roots. The red line is a hark bark to the early 1900's design pioneers - this slash of red identifies that the designer really, really knows his shit - and would expect his fans to understand this.

The inside pics. in Get Ready are crap... but are they crap for a reason...... ???? - I think so.

My problem is more with GR front cover. To me, it's not a NO sleeve. But then gain, so I though of the "Republic" artwork at the time, so...

And what about the sleeve to Subculture's 12" ?

Well, Huntsy, I guess this is much more your area than mine, which actually is why I put the question to you. But you're wrong about the Offspring.

Patty, has it come to this - two friends fighting across the pond over the popular combo 'The Outsprings'. What a shameful day it has become for us all. Okay, I'll put MTV on and after 30 seconds I'm sure they'll pop along (in between Linkin Park Crawlin around the room and the Biscuit boys shouting out at the top of their voices about spilt milk) - I'll allow them a full 1 song set, then I shall return judgement. You see, at the moment, I'm not sure if the Outcasts are the one's who put together that filthy Mission Impossible tripe or them catastrophic cheese makers that put their equipment on top of a skyscraper using the only lift for a day - or is it them surf doods who hired a van and threw money all over the place instead of placing it inside a savings account? - that's my problem Patsy, they all meld into one cheesey filthy badger type outfit.

1 song - okay? - then we'll see if the casters are worth their weight in butter.

Actually, Huntsy, I think you may be just a tiny bit confused, possibly the effect of too many patties and pringles. You are not likely to see the Offspring on MTV these days. They don't have anything out right now. They are much, much older than those child bands you refer to. Smash came out in 1994, I believe. Their last "hit" was, I believe, Pretty Fly for a White Guy, which is not a song on which I would stake their claim to godhood, but I mention it just because you might be familiar with it. They do get played on the radio here though. I am so relieved to learn that your attitude about the Offspring really does merely reflect a lack of familiarity.

Personally, I think the Republic artwork sucks. Get Ready looks decent. It is a nice photo but nothing special. It's not a bad sleeve. Saville appropriates a lot of his material from other sources it seems. The PC&L sleeve is saved by the color bar and floppy disc inner sleeve.

Huntsman - Offspring do Suck but when one of their songs comes on the radio there's a good possibility that nothing else on the radio is better. Is pat from the Northeast US? I heard Offspring when i visited Reading PA and NYC back in 93 about a hundred times and it did get catchy. However, Likin Park, Offspring etc...are shit or shite or "toilet sitting music"

Get Ready's Sleeve looks much better than the last Cure and DM albums.

Patso - I opened up to you and you gunned me down like a thief in the night. I don't blame you, who am I to slag one of your personal faves. Not my cup of tea the Offspring, that's all. Couldn't resist a little bit of messing with you. I know a little bit more about said band that I let on, all things considered - they aren't that bad. My only gripe with them is that they don't get passed the 'mid-american typical rock band' sound. But, I'll leave it there 'cause I'm touching a nerve. Why don't you get me back - I absolutely adore Kate Bush and have every piece of music she's ever produced... go on, I'm ready - I can take it.... don't be too harsh, oh no, here it comes...

Brian - The Republic artwork is one of the worst moments of Saville's career - quite simply, a random selection of stock book images knocked together by a Mac operator. Such a lacklustre approach to typography on this work it makes me cringe. Get Ready has guts, gusto, daring and power. Reminds me of Joy Division... red bar is the stuff of legends. Everytime I show the artwork to anyone they go... erm, fuck, that's weird, who's that bitch and what's that red line?

Patty - I will soon announce my guestimate at where you are broadcasting from... your aware of the mighty spoon-bender Uri Geller (he of international fame), well, here comes the crips munching Huntsman... psychic of all Northern England... and beyond!!! - you thought David Blane could make cards appear on peoples chins, well, watch this...

hey huntsman,

whatever happened to trevor key?

                          g.

Trevor 'the photographer' Key, he of the 'Trev. take this pic. and scan it in for my New Order cover, cheers pal' - Pete fame. Sos. Don't know. Have been looking out for 'the key' in many circles and he seems to have locked himself away. Perhaps in Sav's basement?

design to me is best when it is simple. get ready certainly falls into that catagory. I like the 12" Crystal sleeves with no picture a little better than the album. Still, to hold the vinyl copy is much better. the size, the smell, the feel...kinda like a crisp...you have to take it all in before you digest it...by the way, do you put the whole pringle in your mouth then crush it with your tongue or do you take little bites?

Huntsy, Kate Bush was a blank spot in my mind until you mentioned her a while back and I listened to a few seconds of one of her things at CDNOW. I will say this: if I liked her, I would not admit it. But I will admit that there was a time in my life when I was a huge fan of Barbra Streisand. About the O's, I admit they do not transcend the genre, but I think they are at the top of the kind of thing they do. About my super-secret geographical location, I have actually revealed it here, if you are willing to do the research.

I love the cover photo. It's nothing like NO's past albums but it is still very New Orderish. Just some girl, she's not gorgeous and she's not ugly, she's the type of girl you might not even notice. And that kind of reminds me of myself, except I'm a guy. The song titles are what I'm disappointed in.

But what about the inside photos, JSJ? As a non-expert, I hate them.

Have not seen them my friend.

Have not seen them my friend.

Well JSJ, actually you are fortunate to have missed them.

So, Huntsy, no comment on my humiliating confession about Babs?

Babs has the nose of a pelican - which surely deserves a mention on that fact alone. A woman with so much money, resisting the temptation of plastic surgery to knock a few inches off the end of her hooter - she deserves to be applauded for that. I did hear that she'd past up the opportunity of a lucrative hoover deal as a simple sniff cleared one of her largest bedrooms in only a few seconds - vacum cleaners compare little to the strength of Barbara's human suction.

Putting the Streisand alongside Kate Bush is like putting New Order next to the Pet Shop Shirt Lifters. New Order will always win because they are deep, edgey and full of emotion - whereas the Shirt Lifters are like 2 moles running from their mothers scorn after attacking a wounded badger.

That said, the nasally impaired Babs has made some memorable songs, like "memories, like the corners of my nostril system" and so on. So, I don't mind her (providing she doesn't sneeze around my general vicinity).

Going back to Brian G's pringles question - believe it or not (and this is a sad - true - story) - I have 2 scars on the sides of my mouth from eating several pringles at a time. I was depressed a few years ago and took it out on my friends the pringle family. Shovelling them in like there was no tomorrow I cut the sides of my mouth and the salt went into my skin and scared me... for the rest of my life. The rest is history.

It's an odd world isn't it.

(not many comments today fellas - I'm up my own arse at work)

Huntsy, thanks for your generous comments about Babs. About PSB, although I have liked some of their things, they always somehow seemed to me to be making pretend, fake, or toy music.

... I didn't mind West End Girls, it must be said. But they went a little bit gay overload and lost the plot. I think Go West was the moment went I decided to leave them to their own devices I probably would.

I'm detecting your age at about 27. It would be no fun digging up your location from old posts, however this does somewhat blow my chances at looking psychic when the revelation is announced 'but he looked at old posts' they cry. Drat! - will I ever become a magician like the late Martin Hannet.

I would agree Pattler (that's twice today) that the PSB's write toy music. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they both lived in toy town... where both men and rabbits share each others love... and badgers live in harmony with various monkeys.

Originally posted by g05 hey huntsman,whatever happened to trevor key? g.

He's dead : John Trevor Key (10 Jul 1947 - 6 Dec 1995)

Huntsy, do your comments about Go West mean that you're not an admirer of YMCA and Macho Man?

YMCA and Macho Man are the exception to the rule. I'm still not convinced that the Village People weren't attempting to give humankind a subliminal message through their male orientated dance themes... nobody gave them the chance.

I heard once that the Policeman could command cattle across a field by moving his moustache slightly to either the left or the right depending on which way he wanted the cows to shift.

Well, Huntsy, I'm very relieved that you give those two classics their due. However, I have this nagging suspicion that you might just possibly be making up that story about the mustache.