261 replies · 14,276 views
FAC 51 The Hacienda wrote: I can answer that, no none whatsoever. Nor Saville nor any other member of the band
Ditto this which is pretty snide really. Makes you wonder really.
Well, I guess if you pilfer the image from an astronomy book in the first place then perhaps not.
However the value to the image was added by Saville, and its usage by the band.
It all seems very one sided, the band are perceived as the villains for employing their heritage in whatever way they choose, however other brands such as the massively successful Carharrt can appropriate the image without permission or approval and dont seem to generate the same level of opprobium that the actual band members do.
Funny that.
One wonders what the lawyers* said?
I wonder if Hooky was going to use the same lawyers who he threatened the good people at FUC51 after claiming that the typeface they used was owned by him and his cronies?
*see the comments on the UP t shirt
FAC 51 The Hacienda wrote: However the value to the image was added by Saville, and its usage by the band.
It all seems very one sided, the band are perceived as the villains for employing their heritage in whatever way they choose, however other brands such as the massively successful Carharrt can appropriate the image without permission or approval and dont seem to generate the same level of opprobium that the actual band members do.
Funny that.
I dont think the people at Carharrt are exploiting the fans in the same way as your boss is. That might be the difference.
Of course they are, thats very blinkered.
They've appropriated the use of an iconic image for their own marketing and publicity purposes, and also to sell a carharrt up image tshirt to fans of the bands.
As for what we're doing, you do have a choice, or maybe you expect to get everything for nothing, like the bootlegs and downloads that appear here on a regular basis.
How are they exploiting the fans? By selling a reasonably creative and mildly funny t shirt for a few dollars? Hardly on the same level as some reject tracks, a remix or two, and a book for £600!
Its funny how you jump from discussions of the copyright for the UP sleeve and illegal downloading to discussions of the collectors editions of the book, like that was your ace card
It should be pretty obvious that the production costs on the special editions are high and it is intended for people who have the income and inclination to want to purchase one of the limited edition sets. If nobody wants them they wont sell.
I cannot enter into the facts surrounding the special editions but its very safe to say that despite your kneejerk and authoritarian reactions, you have no idea of these.
However, you are entitled to an opinion, however blinkered, biased and ill informed it might be.
Oh and judging by your signature, it'd be you supplying the wood. Cross and main beam eh?
ooooohhh.....
Officialdom enters the argument.
Is it alright for me to say that I'd love Hooky to start to actually make good no-nonsense music again, rather than than the old pap he's been churning out lately.
Perhaps he could use the 1x£600 he gets from latest 'project' to employ a decent songwriter to knock up a good song. That's what used to happen in the days when it was all about the music.
All this stuff, and participation in online arguments is making Mr Hook and his entourage look like a right tit. Go on, blow us away with one good song. Go onnnnnnn..........
Burt Burterson wrote: Officialdom enters the argument.
....Perhaps he could use the 1x£600 he gets from latest 'project'
All this stuff, and participation in online arguments is making Mr Hook and his entourage look like a right tit.....
Officialdom? Give me a break.
1 x £600 - so all the fee goes straight to hooky, yeah it comes with five magic beans as well.
We have a right to defend Peter against what it pretty much misjudged vitriole from people who call themselves fans. You outside the circle are entitled to your viewpoints, us inside the circle are entitled to our knowledge.
Maybe we should just have a free for all, where material and goods are given away to the fans for nothing cos after all they deserve it. In fact, we'll pay the postage.
I find it funny - u2 get sponsored by blackberry, sign to aeg, charge 60 to 80 quid a ticket and nobody pipes up. We do some smaller and festival gigs, with some ancillary limited edition merch for the people who want it and we're the devil, despite the heritage and culture which was built up by Hooky and the bands generosity, largesse and investment in culture.
Still you cant please all of the people all of the time.
I've made my points, if you think us trying to engage with your opinions makes Hooky and his entourage "a right tit" then sadly mate, its you thats bereft of any rational or reasonable viewpoint.
Why the fuck would we want to talk about U2?
And anyway, you are totally missing the point:
Re issue after re issue were an insult to the New Order fans, as were the live performance put on by the band which, for the most part were phoned in, charging the not inconsiderable £35 a time, if not more.
Hooky in particular has been putting his name on anything that will sell recently.
The digital re masters were a joke, and when a certain somebody apparently made public his desire to sort them out, well, it wasnt done, was it
Look at some of the stuff released, books, pieces of a floor for fucks sake, shambolic talking tours, its stinks of cashing in, and of exploiting the fans.
Will anything be released that isnt limited edition? A limited edition t shirt? Just a different colour. Bit of a piss take really. And how much more limited edition products will there be? Seems like one a week at the moment.
These are not ill informed opinions, these are statements of fact.
oh you're still here, forgot about you in the two hours you didnt post.
With addendums
And how is that Hooky's fault?
Not true but you can believe what you will.
And how is that Hooky's fault? He was the one that spoke up about it and endeavoured to do something about it. Everyone else remained silent.
You do have a choice and I think that you're being disingenous in your choice of examples. The book got four / five star reviews across the board and was available throughout from Amazon for less than a tenner. The talking tour was reviewed well and as for the memorabilia aspects nobodys putting a gun to your head and making you buy (or want) them.
Its a different design, done by Saville and yes get this, authorised by all the surviving members of Joy Division. Better than buying some Carhartt rip off. Limited edition means its special and not mass market.
Anyway you can make your choices. It's a free world after all.
FAC 51 The Hacienda wrote:
Burt Burterson wrote: Officialdom enters the argument.
....Perhaps he could use the 1x£600 he gets from latest 'project'
All this stuff, and participation in online arguments is making Mr Hook and his entourage look like a right tit.....
- Officialdom? Give me a break.
Oh right, so you are not paid in any way by Mr Hook then? Lemme guess you are an undying fan just like me, who's bought product, rolled up to so-called 'DJ dates', gigs etc etc, but not felt disappointed, if not left slightly short-changed.
FAC 51 The Hacienda wrote:
- 1 x £600 - so all the fee goes straight to hooky, yeah it comes with five magic beans as well.
Simple business model. Release good stuff, at a reasonable price, people buy in quantity. KER-CHING! If you know it's rubbish, then whack a ridiculous price tag on it and a few die-hard collectors will buy. Big shame, and hardly very 'Factory' is it?
FAC 51 The Hacienda wrote:
- We have a right to defend Peter against what it pretty much outright slander from so-called fans. You outside the circle are entitled to your viewpoints, us inside the circle are entitled to our knowledge.
Maybe we should just have a free for all, where material and goods are given away to the fans for nothing cos after all they deserve it. In fact, we'll pay the postage.
I find it funny - u2 get sponsored by blackberry, sign to aeg, charge 60 to 80 quid a ticket and nobody pipes up. We do some smaller and festival gigs, with some ancillary limited edition merch for the people who want it and we're the devil, despite the heritage and culture which was built up by Hooky and the bands generosity, largesse and investment in culture.
Still you cant please all of the people all of the time.
I've made my points, if you think us trying to engage with your opinions makes Hooky and his entourage "a right tit" then sadly mate, its you thats bereft of any rational or reasonable viewpoint.
Back to the business model. You mention U2. They have their own website, which you can freely go to. They aren't just the Edge on their own, cutting a sadly avaricious figure cashing in on former glories. There are other members of Joy Division still alive, making music at a reasonable price, and not running around touring on the basis that they are one quarter of Joy Division and therefore have the right to tour and release ridiculously expensive merchandise packages.
On a personal note... I wonder when the 'Still Tour' will happen, and perhaps 'Les Baines Douches' on tour, right down to the original coughs.
You lot are a disgrace.
Where's that FUC51 blog when you need them?
Oh wait it seems FUC51 thinks their job is over.
FAC 51 The Hacienda wrote: Maybe we should just have a free for all, where material and goods are given away to the fans for nothing cos after all they deserve it. In fact, we'll pay the postage.
Will you post first class?
Seriously can the book 10" be released separately at a normal price?
You got my moolah then....gladly....dont want no freebies.
Nick King wrote: I think this is appropriate now...
but is it Hooky branded popcorn, officially sanctioned by all other surviving members of Joy Division?
it better f____ taste nice, if it is.
What is your problem, you seem very bitter about something that you have a choice in - too buy or not too buy? You also seem like you are talking on behalf of all fans and you clearly are not! My views below
Why the fuck would we want to talk about U2?
And anyway, you are totally missing the point:
I am a fan and was not insulted by any of the re issues
His choice and my choice not to buy anything. I did buy the book though and it's great
This was done?
I havn't been exploted as I didn't buy anything other than the book
If there's a market why not
These are not ill informed opinions, these are statements of fact.
The Teacher wrote: Why the fuck would we want to talk about U2?
And anyway, you are totally missing the point:
- Re issue after re issue were an insult to the New Order fans, as were the live performance put on by the band which, for the most part were phoned in, charging the not inconsiderable £35 a time, if not more.
I am a fan and was not insulted by any of the re issues
- Hooky in particular has been putting his name on anything that will sell recently.
His choice and my choice not to buy anything. I did buy the book though and it's great
- The digital re masters were a joke, and when a certain somebody apparently made public his desire to sort them out, well, it wasnt done, was it
This was done?
- Look at some of the stuff released, books, pieces of a floor for fucks sake, shambolic talking tours, its stinks of cashing in, and of exploiting the fans.
I havn't been exploted as I didn't buy anything other than the book
- Will anything be released that isnt limited edition? A limited edition t shirt? Just a different colour. Bit of a piss take really. And how much more limited edition products will there be? Seems like one a week at the moment.
If there's a market why not
These are not ill informed opinions, these are statements of fact.
I dont like many new bands, a couple perhaps, but I tend to like the older bands and can often been found lurking on forums like this. One thing they all have in common is that when theres no new music coming through because the bands are on hiatus or split up theres always a tonne of complaining and defending about issues which really have fuck all to do with us.
Some fans like to remember JD/NO at a particular point in time, but some have a hunger for more and appreciate almost anything to do with them...the odd live cover, books, t-shirts etc. Personally, i don't mind Hooky doing stuff with the Hac 'brand' or UP. It's his heritage and his right...it is for all of the band. As for the dancefloor being sold...didn't they do the same thing with the old Wembley pitch? I'd have no problem with it as a souvenir...better we have the oppurtunity than it being skipped or whatever. If people don't buy this stuff then he'll be out of pocket. Simple. I personally don't think most fans are that easy to exploit...that's selling us short.
Great this! Suppose it's given NOOL an Indian Summer, pure nostalgia.
Anyway.....
Let's have a heated debate.....
So my two pence worth is as follows;
Anyone who doesn't think it unreasonable to charge £600 for an item like this is living in a different world to the rest of us, already has more than enough money and probably doesn't understand the value of £600.
For those who say I shouldn't buy it if I don't like the price, I don't even want it! Wouldn't buy it if it was a tenner. The problem is it is still costing me. It's costing me respect for someone I looked up to, the whole Factory ethos thing and you can't put a price on that.
Another thing is this term Limited Edition being bandied around. How come we never see how many it is limited to? As these items have no intrinsic value, their worth is only what someone will pay for it, if the print run is limited to 50 then there is a possibility that demand will exceed supply, £30 000 received (however it is divvied up, don't care)and your £600 piece of wood/paper still holds some value. If the print run is 250 it is far less likely that demand will exceed supply and your £600 is now worth sweet FA. So unless you state the print run lets have enough of this limited edition bollocks, you are just using it to whip up a few sales, these items are intrinsically worthless.
James Thomas wrote: Great this! Suppose it's given NOOL an Indian Summer, pure nostalgia.
Anyway.....
Let's have a heated debate.....
So my two pence worth is as follows;
Anyone who doesn't think it unreasonable to charge £600 for an item like this is living in a different world to the rest of us, already has more than enough money and probably doesn't understand the value of £600.
For those who say I shouldn't buy it if I don't like the price, I don't even want it! Wouldn't buy it if it was a tenner. The problem is it is still costing me. It's costing me respect for someone I looked up to, the whole Factory ethos thing and you can't put a price on that.
Another thing is this term Limited Edition being bandied around. How come we never see how many it is limited to? As these items have no intrinsic value, their worth is only what someone will pay for it, if the print run is limited to 50 then there is a possibility that demand will exceed supply, £30 000 received (however it is divvied up, don't care)and your £600 piece of wood/paper still holds some value. If the print run is 250 it is far less likely that demand will exceed supply and your £600 is now worth sweet FA. So unless you state the print run lets have enough of this limited edition bollocks, you are just using it to whip up a few sales, these items are intrinsically worthless.
I'd rather have a mass debate..........
oh and while I'm on topic..... what a wanker Liam is.
JUST FUCK OFF YOU CUNT.
Ultraviolent wrote:
James Thomas wrote: Great this! Suppose it's given NOOL an Indian Summer, pure nostalgia.
Anyway.....
Let's have a heated debate.....
So my two pence worth is as follows;
Anyone who doesn't think it unreasonable to charge £600 for an item like this is living in a different world to the rest of us, already has more than enough money and probably doesn't understand the value of £600.
For those who say I shouldn't buy it if I don't like the price, I don't even want it! Wouldn't buy it if it was a tenner. The problem is it is still costing me. It's costing me respect for someone I looked up to, the whole Factory ethos thing and you can't put a price on that.
Another thing is this term Limited Edition being bandied around. How come we never see how many it is limited to? As these items have no intrinsic value, their worth is only what someone will pay for it, if the print run is limited to 50 then there is a possibility that demand will exceed supply, £30 000 received (however it is divvied up, don't care)and your £600 piece of wood/paper still holds some value. If the print run is 250 it is far less likely that demand will exceed supply and your £600 is now worth sweet FA. So unless you state the print run lets have enough of this limited edition bollocks, you are just using it to whip up a few sales, these items are intrinsically worthless.
I'd rather have a mass debate..........
oh and while I'm on topic..... what a wanker Liam is.
JUST FUCK OFF YOU CUNT.
what have Oasis got to do with it?
I admit there's probably a market for selling 'limited' items at higher prices, but as I've mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, if the price was too high (or perceived as too high), you run the risk of alienating potential customers. The very people who might buy the product if it were provided at a more reasonable/cheaper/affordable price. This may be one thing that some on here are concerned about. However, I'm not accusing Hooky of being unaware of this risk.
(From an international perspective...as of typing, £600 is about: 720 euros, 81889 yen, 957 US dollars, and so on. [From an online currency converter using live rates.] Which is a lot of money for many people these days.)
Just an economic POV, you see. That said, it's none of my business if someone bought it.
Well - seems like some raw nerves have been touched! This is probably why "officaldom" shouldn't really post on a fans forum - no matter how well-intentioned or well-received (or not) their comments are. Could you imagine Gill or Ferguson getting involved in a fans forum, or Hodgson/Purslow? or Mancini/ Garry Cook- oh he has and made a right arse of himself!
As for some of the complaints - I am firmly in the camp that wont be buying anything for £600, nor would I want a piece of the Hac dancefloor for even £5. The issuing of such items doesn't offend me - I just choose not to buy them. Leave them to those who can afford tham and want them.
I did buy the Hacienda book- a decent read and worth the tenner I paid for it. Hooky has to make a living but if what he is doing offends - don't buy it. As for the Light tour - again if you are offended don't go- no-one is forcing anyone to buy a ticket.
Personally I enjoy Morrissey playing Smiths tracks or Ian Brown doing Roses tracks when playing live. I go to be entertained and these are part of my growing up - nothing wrong with celebrating that. I will probably go to the Bunnymen at the Ritz doing Crocodiles and Heaven up Here- despite the lack of De Freitas and Les Pattinson. Is anyone saying that they shouldn't play these albums because only half the group are around? Is this some shameless karaoke/tribute band? Who cares- at the very least it's a night out with some mates with decent songs being played in the background but if the band is on scorching form it will be so much more.
Confusion33 wrote: Is anyone saying that they shouldn't play these albums because only half the group are around?
You think this is bad, Pop Will Eat Itself are returning with only one original member.
Gene wrote:
Confusion33 wrote: Is anyone saying that they shouldn't play these albums because only half the group are around?
You think this is bad, Pop Will Eat Itself are returning with only one original member.
Fuck, no!!!!
leather_girl wrote: The very people who might buy the product if it were provided at a more reasonable/cheaper/affordable price. This may be one thing that some on here are concerned about.
(In my case) Nail. On. Head.
Okay, to summarise the prices of the 3 editions:
400 x Standard Editions at 262.50 (down from 350 quid) quid a pot 100 x Deluxe Editions at 600 quid a pot 2 x Ultimate Editions at silly money a pot
None of which I can really justify for what I would really want - i.e. 4 tracks on a 10" single... 
It sounds to me like Hooky's got himself a very hard nosed straight talking accountant. Time to pay the taxman and think about retirement. It comes to evryone.
