BBC Breakfast this morning

He says it again on the cover notes inside Total!

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Bernard also told Q they'd never been Warsaw - their Q&A thing - around the time of Twisted Tenderness.

Julijana Zitnjak wrote: Exactly. Youngsters I went to university with (all 10 years my juniors) all know Joy Division and like or respect them (sometimes are annoyed by them), they're in a league say the Doors were when we were young. Let's face it they're a commodity/reference point/cultural item/whatever now for better or worse. New Order less so. The only trouble is, the youngsters don't like paying for their music nowadays.

I like paying for the music I like (I'm 23 years old)---that said, I already have bought Substance (NO), Substance (JD), The Best of New Order, and International. I do not feel like buying another album that is a 'best of' type collection (even if it has a new song---and said new song is mediocre that I wouldn't want to buy it on iTunes).

If the record label wants to put the unreleased song on iTunes and other digital shops, fine. If they wanted to release it as an EP (maybe with remixes or instrumentals), fine. But another 'Best of' type collection (of the songs most fans already have because many of us already have at least one of those 'best of' type albums...such as Substance, International, Singles etc...) with just 1 new song added on...sorry, not interested.

Zachery Starkey wrote:

NO Regret wrote: Personally I cant see Total doing mega things. Most people under 35 probably dont know who New Order are let alone Joy Division. And I dont think they appeal to those who havent bought any of their stuff before (they probably know some of the songs but never had the foggiest who sang it). Thats down to NO not playing the marketing game to maximise sales/profit.

As for fans it only offers one previously released track which I imagine people would just download as an individual track.

Im not sure if tv appearances raises their profile enough if their not already in the publics conscience. Perhaps they should get an X factor muppet to butcher BLT and then release it on the back of a wave of publicity. I know thats not NO ethos but it worked for Tracy Chapman.

I can assure you that NOJD are very popular and well known by plenty of people under the age of 30. I happen to know a lot of people aged 18-25 who adore them. And they still get played in clubs a lot.

Well Im glad you proved me wrong and NO/JD are still popular (or unpopular) as ever. People who wanna find good music, will always find good music, if its there. But in the UK theres too much XFactor shite, Capital RnB shite, illegal downloads and (as someone stated) music doesnt have such the mass appeal as it has done in the past, with TOTP taken off air, album sales falling, record labels going bust or merging.

I was in London Airport in 2002 wearing a NO t-shirt, talked with some people who thought they did not exist anymore those days.

NO Regret wrote: But in the UK theres too much XFactor shite, Capital RnB shite, illegal downloads and (as someone stated) music doesnt have such the mass appeal as it has done in the past, with TOTP taken off air, album sales falling, record labels going bust or merging.

Theres a point of view that says the older you get the more the above becomes true. In the 80s the music fans of the 70s said "Whats this shit?" and in the 90s the music fans of the 80s said "Whats this shit?" etc etc.

The problem is I REALLY THINK TODAYS POP MUSIC IS SHIT!!?? I listened to a TV music channel recently and couldnt get over a) how much music was based on an older sample, b) how much was "So And So Featuring Some Cunt", and c)how SHIT IT ALL IS!!??

If nothing else, hearing 'Hellbent' gives me new music from a decent band. A gulp of air before I drown in the rest of this shit.

OK, Im done. Rant over.

Gene wrote:

NO Regret wrote: But in the UK theres too much XFactor shite, Capital RnB shite, illegal downloads and (as someone stated) music doesnt have such the mass appeal as it has done in the past, with TOTP taken off air, album sales falling, record labels going bust or merging.

Theres a point of view that says the older you get the more the above becomes true. In the 80s the music fans of the 70s said "Whats this shit?" and in the 90s the music fans of the 80s said "Whats this shit?" etc etc.

The problem is I REALLY THINK TODAYS POP MUSIC IS SHIT!!?? I listened to a TV music channel recently and couldnt get over a) how much music was based on an older sample, b) how much was "So And So Featuring Some Cunt", and c)how SHIT IT ALL IS!!??

If nothing else, hearing 'Hellbent' gives me new music from a decent band. A gulp of air before I drown in the rest of this shit.

OK, Im done. Rant over.

hey Gene, yes Im probably suffering from old man syndrome too. The thing is every decade had shit music and great music. I think Arcade Fire are my favourite current band but also like The Temper Trap and recenly got into Two Door Cinema Club. While neither are going to compete with classic bands, at least theyre a decent alternative to Justin Beaver, Katy Perry, Bullshit and Shitmonk.

Gene wrote:

NO Regret wrote: But in the UK theres too much XFactor shite, Capital RnB shite, illegal downloads and (as someone stated) music doesnt have such the mass appeal as it has done in the past, with TOTP taken off air, album sales falling, record labels going bust or merging.

Theres a point of view that says the older you get the more the above becomes true. In the 80s the music fans of the 70s said "Whats this shit?" and in the 90s the music fans of the 80s said "Whats this shit?" etc etc.

The problem is I REALLY THINK TODAYS POP MUSIC IS SHIT!!?? I listened to a TV music channel recently and couldnt get over a) how much music was based on an older sample, b) how much was "So And So Featuring Some Cunt", and c)how SHIT IT ALL IS!!??

If nothing else, hearing 'Hellbent' gives me new music from a decent band. A gulp of air before I drown in the rest of this shit.

OK, Im done. Rant over.

That's why I don't use TV or radio to find new music. I sometimes get sick of music magazines as well. Yes it's true I think recent J-pop (Japanese pop), K-Pop (Korean pop music), as well as some foreign music are shit. But I don't pay attention to mainstream media so it doesn't bother me. I just listen to whatever I like and I don't obsess over music I hate. I just obsess over music I love, including New Order. Sorry for being a bit 'off-topic'.

But most mainstream pop has always been rubbish. Just when you're young you put more effort in finding out the good bits and finding out the less comercial stuff, whereas when you're in your thirties (and fourties I guess) you have other interests in life and can't be bothered that much. Also music means more to you as you grow up and there's an emotional connection to it you can't really make to music you discover once you're fully grown up, regardless of how good it might be. Hence the nostalgias and hence all the "music was better when I was young".

I don't subscribe to this 'music was better in the old days' thing... I have bought more new music in the first half of 2011 than I have in a good few years and a decade or so 'online' has opened doors (and ears) to a lot of stuff I probably wouldn't have discovered back in the day... What doesn't change is the disappointment you feel when a band you love become something you love a bit (or a lot) less... And despite all the BL, Freebass, Light, Total, Hellbent, tabloid/breakfast news interviews and God only knows what else, I do still love NO, just maybe not as much as I have done in the past... Doesn't mean that music per se has got any worse though...

Snorri xxx

I'm only 20 and I think today's music is pretty shit (with a few odd exceptions, obviously). So its definitely not just a nostalgia thing.

Personally I think there always has been and always will be shit music. What's changed is the amount of good music being released- it's been on a steady decline since the late 80s/early 90s. Even if we discount all the commercial RnB bollocks, the 'proper bands' of today are still pretty awful. I think it's down to bands having an attitude of 'we want to be in a band' rather than 'we want to make great music'. Too concerned with their image and such like rather than their creative output.

Definitely not an age thing, I'm 24 and music has been getting worse and worse since the late 90s today it is just unlistenable for me

The thing is people aren't being exposed to good music these days because the airwaves are filled with the r&b/novelty crap that has already been mentioned. There is no balance any more, hardly any decent indie/rock/dance gets played on the radio anymore, it is all the same kind of music.

Even RockFM do not play rock anymore.

John Peel is dead.

Top Of The Pops is no more etc.

There IS good music out there, just this month I've been getting into the new Tom Vek album which is brilliant. It's just there is a lack of balance in the media so most of it is destined to be a commercial failure/have any impact on the general public.

It was rather nice to see THESE TWO on the sofa.Well done lads.:D

everyoneverywhere wrote: Definitely not an age thing, I'm 24 and music has been getting worse and worse since the late 90s today it is just unlistenable for me

The thing is people aren't being exposed to good music these days because the airwaves are filled with the r&b/novelty crap that has already been mentioned. There is no balance any more, hardly any decent indie/rock/dance gets played on the radio anymore, it is all the same kind of music.

Even RockFM do not play rock anymore.

John Peel is dead.

Top Of The Pops is no more etc.

There IS good music out there, just this month I've been getting into the new Tom Vek album which is brilliant. It's just there is a lack of balance in the media so most of it is destined to be a commercial failure/have any impact on the general public.

I agree with all of the above. However, we must not forget to blame Travis for killing "indie/aternative" music. Travis were sh!t. Travis begat Embrace. Embrace begat Starsailor. Starsailor begat Coldplay. Coldplay begat Keane. Keane are super-sh!t.

Or something like that.

Anyway, Travis started the slow decline of indie which led to bands like Scouting for Girls being deemed as "alternative".

F*ck 'em.

Also worth mentioning that the charts and the industry are now totally geared towards artists having hits straight off the bat (and get quickly dropped if they don't)- there's no time for artists to develop on the "indie" circuit and build their craft over several albums.... we certainly won't see the likes of The Fall again who built a multi decade career existing completely outside of the mainstream.

P.S. the music festivals are also to blame for pandering to the middle class Sophie and Jemimas.... go to a festival now and it's all posh camping with Mumford and Sons instead of the good ol' days when festivals sites were all mud and p!ss whilst watching Bad Brains :-(

father jack wrote: However, we must not forget to blame Travis for killing "indie/aternative" music.

Before Travis blanded the shit out of everything Oasis showed the world that being derivative, boring and Look At Us We're Rock Stars was a way of earning a living. Oasis are the biggest bag of bollocks ever to sell a record. Their tired, uninspired, spoilt bastard influence is still affecting British music today.

we certainly won't see the likes of The Fall again who built a multi decade career existing completely outside of the mainstream.

Of course we will, it's easy to exist outside of the mainstream, especially now since the mainstream isn't remotely interested anymore. What isn't easy is for an 'alternative' act to crossover into the mainstream, so no more Coldplays, Travis, Oasis etc etc. Some might see that as a good thing however.

Gene wrote:

father jack wrote: However, we must not forget to blame Travis for killing "indie/aternative" music.

Before Travis blanded the shit out of everything Oasis showed the world that being derivative, boring and Look At Us We're Rock Stars was a way of earning a living. Oasis are the biggest bag of bollocks ever to sell a record. Their tired, uninspired, spoilt bastard influence is still affecting British music today.

I take your point, but to be fair to Oasis, they always rejected the "indie" tag, whereas bands such as Coldplay try to sell themselves as credible and alternative, whilst being utter utter sh!te.