Rorschach wrote: In any event, it's great to have Gillian back.

That's the spirit. It was never the same without her...

condemnation wrote:

TOOTS wrote: The most sensible thing I have read amongst all this rubbish. Yes Gillian was a damn site more important to NO than hooky every was / will be - anyone can play the base !

It's obvious that you could never play the bass, as you can't even spell it!

O.K.. Page of the venue is bookmarked, alarm clock is set, credit card ready...

So please leave two tickets (Belgium) for me folks.

Bere wrote: O.K.. Page of the venue is bookmarked, alarm clock is set, credit card ready...

So please leave two tickets (Belgium) for me folks.

Good luck!

condemnation wrote:

SHED wrote: Good to see the forums busy again!:D

Well, lot's of New Order news I guess brings everyone out again.

That's cool that Gillian is back, but I think it's more of a tactical move. 3 members, 3 votes and all that shit.

I'm glad she is back too and I hope it's not just for tactical reasons,with her and Phil on board there should be less reliance on "backing tapes", and I hope she is involved in any new music that they put together which will may well be under the name New Order. As for comparing the relative contributions of Gillian and Hooky,lets just say the band was best when both were involved.

TOOTS wrote: The most sensible thing I have read amongst all this rubbish. Yes Gillian was a damn site more important to NO than hooky every was / will be - anyone can play the base !

And me (might have to change my user name or they might not sell me a ticket). Any chance someone on here could act as a broker for any spares???

TOOTS wrote:

Housey wrote:

Ben wrote: And was it New Order without Gillian?

See, this is my issue. The NO Facebook announcement has all these people hollering that IT'S NOT NEW ORDER WITHOUT HOOKY, and that's a fair point, but when Gillian left, you didn't hear a huge outcry that IT WASN'T NEW ORDER. Granted, the circumstances of Gillian leaving are VERY different from Hooky's (in other words, she wasn't going to sue them for continuing as "New Order"), but I don't get how Hooky is so much more integral to New Order than Gillian is. If anything, the past few years have shown that she did a lot more during the 80's than make the damn tea.

SORRY THIS IS THE MOST SENSIBLE THING I HAVE READ SO FAR.

Thanks, Steve.

I personally was disappointed when Gillian left (I found Phil an adequate but uninspiring replacement) but I think due to the circumstances no-one would've questioned anything about it.

In fact I cant be arsed with replying anymore.

At different points they've all acted like twats of varying degrees, this could end up being another illustration of it.

Rob Gretton wouldnt have let it get this bad, even if it meant banging some heads together.

Im going to petition for Kon Kan to reform instead.

Just realised that it is as long since New Order last played live as the Reading '93 - Apollo '98 hiatus, which felt like a bastarding life time back then............

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Isn't it funny? They have never put names on a poster. But now... is it to piss off Hooky? BTW, the other guy is not mentioned, which means you know what? That the spot is still open... ;)

It's not the first time though, back in 1993 when Republic was being promoted the credits listed the four members for the first time ever (along with Stephen Hague) ...prior to (and after) that it was always New Order the band name......

GlasVegas wrote:

Gene wrote: No Hooky. But, perhaps, this is the best opportunity for a kiss and make-up.

I cant quite get me head round how this is New Order and not Bad Loo, though.

Does that make me a bad person?

It's a bit like when David Gedge said 'right we're not called Cinerama anymore, we're called The Wedding Present. Again. Same members, we just won't play the Cinerama shite that nobody was interested in anyway'

At least that funny lookin wee guy from BL that looked like a 90's throwback with his Noel-hair isn't involved. That would've put me off my for sure. Couldn't even tell you waht the bass player looked like.

And..........let's not forget, Mac and Will Sergeant from the Bunnymen were recording / touring under the Electrafixion name in the mid 90s until the Bunnymen properly reformed with Les Pattinson....then when he left again it was back to Mac and Will....but this time, instead of reverting back to Electrafixion, they decided to continue as the [core of] Echo and the Bunnymen anyway......

so given that it is billed as new order can we take it as read that there will be no bad ltnt songs?

(though wouldnt mind if they kept temptation/ out of control)

Peter Hook Responds To This Week's Events

http://peterhook.co.uk/#/news/peter-hook-responds-to-this-week-s-events

I first I heard about this on Monday and it has taken me completely by surprise! Everyone knows that NEW ORDER without PETER HOOK is like QUEEN without FREDDIE MERCURY, U2 without THE EDGE, SOOTY without SWEEP!

On a more serious note, I do not understand the decision THE OTHER THREE have taken. I wish they had approached me first. I do not agree with the methods they have used and feel it would have been courteous and professional to have spoken to me in advance of the announcements. It is very sad.

Love PETER HOOK x Sept ‘11

Are you ROCKET in DISGUISE?

starion wrote: Peter Hook Responds To This Week's Events http://peterhook.co.uk/#/news/peter-hook-responds-to-this-week-s-events

I first I heard about this on Monday and it has taken me completely by surprise! Everyone knows that NEW ORDER without PETER HOOK is like QUEEN without FREDDIE MERCURY, U2 without THE EDGE, SOOTY without SWEEP!

On a more serious note, I do not understand the decision THE OTHER THREE have taken. I wish they had approached me first. I do not agree with the methods they have used and feel it would have been courteous and professional to have spoken to me in advance of the announcements. It is very sad.

Love PETER HOOK x Sept ‘11

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Studio Parris Wakefield just revealed the poster for the October gig:

Geeky question, but have they used that font before? reminds me of the Palatine boxset.

Wasn't quite as much panic when Gillian left...

UpDownTurnAround wrote: Wasn't quite as much panic when Gillian left...

Totally correct there!

Anyone got a spare Paris ticket up for grabs?

Ok, so the bottom line is THIS, if I understand most of you here correctly:

New Order IS solely Bernard. Hooky is not there, Gilbert hasn't been there for over ten years, no one really cares for Phil (sorry). So the only other constant member is Steve. Now, if Steve wouldn't play at this October gig and they would have a different drummer, would you all still go? I bet, you would.

It's really all down to singers, isn't it? The same way no one could replace Curtis and they were perfectly aware of that back in May 1980, not because there had been an "agreement".

As for my personal preferences, I'd go to see them all, all the time, if I could. I don't have principles and I don't calculate how much JD/NO left in this or that line-up.

Eh, I'm primarily a Steve/Gillian fan, so if neither one was there, I probably wouldn't go. But that's me.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Ok, so the bottom line is THIS, if I understand most of you here correctly:

New Order IS solely Bernard. Hooky is not there, Gilbert hasn't been there for over ten years, no one really cares for Phil (sorry). So the only other constant member is Steve. Now, if Steve wouldn't play at this October gig and they would have a different drummer, would you all still go? I bet, you would.

It's really all down to singers, isn't it? The same way no one could replace Curtis and they were perfectly aware of that back in May 1980, not because there had been an "agreement".

As for my personal preferences, I'd go to see them all, all the time, if I could. I don't have principles and I don't calculate how much JD/NO left in this or that line-up.

New Order is not SOLEY Bernard, and I doubt man of us here think that.

But....

Bernard Sumner is the main songwriter in New Order, he is also the main musical director of the band, he has handled a lot of the production in the band, and his direction of steering New Order towards Electro and Disco brought them success. Bernard was also the musical director of Joy Division, he did a lot of the song arrangements, as have been stated in several interviews with the band.

So no, New Order isn't Bernard, but he has been the guiding force behind the band since Ian died. Hooky's distinctive bass playing, Steve's drumming and programming, and Gillian's synth symphonies are no less important. But Bernard brought them all together by generating a lot of the song ideas and being the bands musical director.

Many, many interviews confirm this. In the Sound on Sound article about the making of Technique, that albums engineer talks about how Bernard was the main guiding and creative force in the group.

When you listen to the solo projects of the four members, you can hear what they bring to the table.

Listen to Electronic, you will hear that Bernard brings the songs, the song writing, the melodies, and the voice.

Listen to The Other Two, you will hear that Steve brought the intricate programming and drumming, and Gillian brought the strong pop melodies on the synths.

Listen to Revenge and Monaco, you will hear what Hooky brought, overlaying all of the above with his distinctive bass melodies. If you listen to New Order songs, and analyze their construction, it is apparent that Hooky would come in after a song was finished and jam his bass line over top. obviously there were exceptions to this, such as Age of Consent, which probably originated with Hooky's bass line. For the record, I also love Hooky's voice on the first Revenge album. And I still think he is a cool guy.

Zachery Starkey wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Ok, so the bottom line is THIS, if I understand most of you here correctly:

New Order IS solely Bernard. Hooky is not there, Gilbert hasn't been there for over ten years, no one really cares for Phil (sorry). So the only other constant member is Steve. Now, if Steve wouldn't play at this October gig and they would have a different drummer, would you all still go? I bet, you would.

It's really all down to singers, isn't it? The same way no one could replace Curtis and they were perfectly aware of that back in May 1980, not because there had been an "agreement".

As for my personal preferences, I'd go to see them all, all the time, if I could. I don't have principles and I don't calculate how much JD/NO left in this or that line-up.

New Order is not SOLEY Bernard, and I doubt man of us here think that.

But....

Bernard Sumner is the main songwriter in New Order, he is also the main musical director of the band, he has handled a lot of the production in the band, and his direction of steering New Order towards Electro and Disco brought them success. Bernard was also the musical director of Joy Division, he did a lot of the song arrangements, as have been stated in several interviews with the band.

So no, New Order isn't Bernard, but he has been the guiding force behind the band since Ian died. Hooky's distinctive bass playing, Steve's drumming and programming, and Gillian's synth symphonies are no less important. But Bernard brought them all together by generating a lot of the song ideas and being the bands musical director.

Many, many interviews confirm this. In the Sound on Sound article about the making of Technique, that albums engineer talks about how Bernard was the main guiding and creative force in the group.

When you listen to the solo projects of the four members, you can hear what they bring to the table.

Listen to Electronic, you will hear that Bernard brings the songs, the song writing, the melodies, and the voice.

Listen to The Other Two, you will hear that Steve brought the intricate programming and drumming, and Gillian brought the strong pop melodies on the synths.

Listen to Revenge and Monaco, you will hear what Hooky brought, overlaying all of the above with his distinctive bass melodies. If you listen to New Order songs, and analyze their construction, it is apparent that Hooky would come in after a song was finished and jam his bass line over top. obviously there were exceptions to this, such as Age of Consent, which probably originated with Hooky's bass line. For the record, I also love Hooky's voice on the first Revenge album. And I still think he is a cool guy.

Starkey is generally right. I think Bernard is actually pretty gracious about his role in the songwriting. Besides Temptation, he's never come out and said "these are my lyrics and music." In Hooky's interviews, he talks up his songwriting a lot more, especially when it comes to Joy Division. He probably felt his role diminished over the years.

Zachery Starkey wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Ok, so the bottom line is THIS, if I understand most of you here correctly:

New Order IS solely Bernard. Hooky is not there, Gilbert hasn't been there for over ten years, no one really cares for Phil (sorry). So the only other constant member is Steve. Now, if Steve wouldn't play at this October gig and they would have a different drummer, would you all still go? I bet, you would.

It's really all down to singers, isn't it? The same way no one could replace Curtis and they were perfectly aware of that back in May 1980, not because there had been an "agreement".

As for my personal preferences, I'd go to see them all, all the time, if I could. I don't have principles and I don't calculate how much JD/NO left in this or that line-up.

New Order is not SOLEY Bernard, and I doubt man of us here think that.

But....

Bernard Sumner is the main songwriter in New Order, he is also the main musical director of the band, he has handled a lot of the production in the band, and his direction of steering New Order towards Electro and Disco brought them success. Bernard was also the musical director of Joy Division, he did a lot of the song arrangements, as have been stated in several interviews with the band.

So no, New Order isn't Bernard, but he has been the guiding force behind the band since Ian died. Hooky's distinctive bass playing, Steve's drumming and programming, and Gillian's synth symphonies are no less important. But Bernard brought them all together by generating a lot of the song ideas and being the bands musical director.

Many, many interviews confirm this. In the Sound on Sound article about the making of Technique, that albums engineer talks about how Bernard was the main guiding and creative force in the group.

When you listen to the solo projects of the four members, you can hear what they bring to the table.

Listen to Electronic, you will hear that Bernard brings the songs, the song writing, the melodies, and the voice.

Listen to The Other Two, you will hear that Steve brought the intricate programming and drumming, and Gillian brought the strong pop melodies on the synths.

Listen to Revenge and Monaco, you will hear what Hooky brought, overlaying all of the above with his distinctive bass melodies. If you listen to New Order songs, and analyze their construction, it is apparent that Hooky would come in after a song was finished and jam his bass line over top. obviously there were exceptions to this, such as Age of Consent, which probably originated with Hooky's bass line. For the record, I also love Hooky's voice on the first Revenge album. And I still think he is a cool guy.

I didn't mean to examine what really constituted the subtance of New Order, I merely wanted to explore the perception of some fans... That is, at what point New Order ceases to be New Order for them (as long as Bernard is in and sings NO tunes, it's NO for them, apparently).

But then we had Bad Loo, which is what this New Order consists of (plus Gillian). I remember when Never Cry Another Tear came out, most people were not amused. What if it was a New Order record? A frightening thought lol :)

But you provided very good points. Ah, I've been listening to them ALL all day today.

Would love have gone to one of these shows, too late to get a ticket now.... and also need permission from the Mrs! She would have to come and then we would need a baby sitter for a few days.. too complicated. Hopefully will play UK dates as well.

Going to see The Light at the Lowry in November and seen them already and it was a pretty special night. So I'm certainly not taking sides, but it be great to go to a new order concert again and hear nothing but new order tunes, hopefully a few that have not been aired for some time, Leave me Alone and Dream Attack for two to end the show.

Age of Consent for those of us who were still standing at the end of the 'last' show in Wolverhampton...:)

poorshakes wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Studio Parris Wakefield just revealed the poster for the October gig:

Geeky question, but have they used that font before? reminds me of the Palatine boxset.

This font looks like "Trebuchet". They haven't used it before.

more cool new order poster designs, pics and projects:

http://www.parriswakefield.com/page/latest-projects

later -1