229 replies · 16,986 views
Steve #1 wrote:
It is his own fault, he left the band. Bit like Torres leaving Liverpool and then moaning if they win the league. Hooky left of his own accord. If they carry on I'd say they have every right to, same way he had no problem when Gilbert left.
Good analogy that, trouble is Liverpool (and some of its fans) want him to stop playing football in the same style with which he played for LFC.
Insert your own 'Torres is shit' additions BTW.
[orange]Jack[/orange] wrote: anything he has had to say to michael he has said in private, not everything needs to be discussed in the public domain
i think more than enough has been explained within that rolling stone article, so im not going to add anything here.
what i will say though is that when you don't know the FACTS you should not jump to conclusions. there are no angels here.
Hello Hooky! Y'know,your Jack's grammar is always so much better than yours is.
I hope between you all,you can somehow resolve all this nonsense.
Regardless of what people think or say about this new brouhaha, there are only losers in this case. It's always sad to see your favourite band slowly fall apart, sometimes because of the slightest things which look serious in their eyes but they really aren't, like a tree loses it's leaves in autumn; they will be back next year. We all know that New Order REALLY is Gillian, Steve, Bernard and Hook and that was a fantastic time. They are ALL our heroes, just like Ian was. They are all part of that magic.
I only hope that these four people can go along with each other in the VERY near future. I don't NEED a reunion, or a new single or album. I just want them to have PEACE with each other. They deserve that peace with each other like no other musician on earth. If 3 members of New Order want to do some gigs for charity for Michael, then that's not a problem at all. In fact it's a noble thing.
You know what: I'll buy the new Total collection if the four of them WILL make peace ... just that ... only that ... please ... what else do we really need?!
Thank you in advance ... New Order :)
[orange]Jack[/orange] wrote: anything he has had to say to michael he has said in private, not everything needs to be discussed in the public domain
what i will say though is that when you don't know the FACTS you should not jump to conclusions. there are no angels here.
Fair dos, he's obviously entitled not to say anything about a private matter. I just spotted in the statements that the Shamberg topic had not really been touched on.
I don't think most fans have drawn absolute conclusions on it all. We can only go on what's written in various interviews and the press so far which just seems incredibly bitter (from both sides). Anyone with half a brain knows that there are dealings behind the scenes which none of us have knowledge of. No average fan really knows who's in the moral right or wrong in any of those dealings. Could be Bernard, could be Hooky... only the lawyers know.
Personally, when I heard NO had reformed I had hoped Hooky was on board too. I think lots of other fans felt the same way but... not to be.
CTB wrote:
condemnation wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote:
Gene wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote: you can see from the various threads the majority of fans have lost patience with Hooky and have become weary of the hypocrisy in his statements.
What threads are these? It all seems about 50/50 to me. Unless you want to sit down and start adding them up.
Dont try to speak for everybody. Tedious fucker.
As Skullcrusher has pointed out, it's a bit fucking obvious from browsing about the board what the mood is towards Hooky. Sorry if I offended you and your precious little hero, Hooky wooky.
Let's look at the significance of the pole shall we? 1 in 28 voted New Order more legitimate (according to your calculations). No surprise, seeing it's a New Order forum, not a Peter Hook forum. But, lets put these figures out and translate them to the real World. Lets say that? You are basically saying that 2800 people would go to a New Order show compared to 100 at a Peter Hook show?
In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.
I get it, this forum is your school playground, the way you are talking suggests you must be in the 11-12 year old range?
Poll, not pole. That is, unless your spelling is in the 11-12 year old range. Incidentally, I'd be guessing JG's NO gig attendance would outstrip your 'numerous' attendances of The Light featuring a Nice Red Prop Bass Guitar, but I don't have the stats to back that up.
What a terrific argument you pose here - lots of people went and saw Hooky tour the Joy Division Tribute act. Popularity equals quality, just take a look at the charts for evidence...and of course, it is impossible to see the Light and yet still regard it as less legitimate than the other 80% of the band performing together. Because everything is that black and white, isn't it?
Poll and pole is not a spelling error, it's a homonym!
My point is (it's not an argument)that the poll is insignificant and only an indication of what the members on the forum think. Everyone has had it in for Hooky for quite sometime now, so it's no shock. Makes no difference to my life in the slightest what people want to say on this, or any other forum. Go to the Peter Hook show and tell him it sucks, then you'll be a real man.
CTB wrote:
condemnation wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote:
Gene wrote:
Johnny Giles wrote: you can see from the various threads the majority of fans have lost patience with Hooky and have become weary of the hypocrisy in his statements.
What threads are these? It all seems about 50/50 to me. Unless you want to sit down and start adding them up.
Dont try to speak for everybody. Tedious fucker.
As Skullcrusher has pointed out, it's a bit fucking obvious from browsing about the board what the mood is towards Hooky. Sorry if I offended you and your precious little hero, Hooky wooky.
Let's look at the significance of the pole shall we? 1 in 28 voted New Order more legitimate (according to your calculations). No surprise, seeing it's a New Order forum, not a Peter Hook forum. But, lets put these figures out and translate them to the real World. Lets say that? You are basically saying that 2800 people would go to a New Order show compared to 100 at a Peter Hook show?
In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.
I get it, this forum is your school playground, the way you are talking suggests you must be in the 11-12 year old range?
Poll, not pole. That is, unless your spelling is in the 11-12 year old range. Incidentally, I'd be guessing JG's NO gig attendance would outstrip your 'numerous' attendances of The Light featuring a Nice Red Prop Bass Guitar, but I don't have the stats to back that up.
What a terrific argument you pose here - lots of people went and saw Hooky tour the Joy Division Tribute act. Popularity equals quality, just take a look at the charts for evidence...and of course, it is impossible to see the Light and yet still regard it as less legitimate than the other 80% of the band performing together. Because everything is that black and white, isn't it?
Those who attend Hooky's shows have a great time. At the very least it's an opportunity for people who never had a chance to see JD/NO hear the songs performed by a member of the band, even if it's not the whole band.
As for the bad feelings between band members, it's not like this is the first time a bad breakup has happened in the history of the music industry.
Stop being the guy who shits in the punch bowl.
If I move on to New Order then we could end up like Pink Floyd, couldn’t we? You could have two bands playing New Order stuff.
See also: Christian Death
condemnation wrote: Go to the Peter Hook show and tell him it sucks, then you'll be a real man.
There isnt one of them that would do that, either at a gig or if they saw him in the street.
They'd probably just ask him to sign their copy of Technique.
And then come on here and say he was tosser. With a shit signature or summat.
condemnation wrote: In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.
Obviously you draw a crowd when you visit a backwater that gets very little in the way of culture.
condemnation wrote:
Poll and pole is not a spelling error, it's a homonym!
No, homonyms have the same spelling but different meanings like tosser, knob and cock. You just can't spell.
Having not seen a Light show on two counts a) principle and b) Hooky not bringing it anywhere I can get to without two days off and getting a hotel, were I to meet him, and if he were to ask my opinion, I'd tell him what I thought, which is not far off many peoples thoughts, which is the band (and the live album) sound a very good fascimile, but the idea of touring the entire JD body of work is.. questionable at best. You don't see John Cale touring the Velvets albums do you?
Since it's unlikely I will bump into him and unlikely he'll ask, I won't. After all, if I bumped into him on Hastings beach, I'd wouldn't run up to him and shout "YER A FCKING TWAT YER NOT JOY DIVISION!" because that'd be a totally bellended way of acting.
When I did meet him fourteen years ago, he was very personable and friendly. The business stuff I know nothing about.
Which is, to cut a short story long, a refutation. I wouldn't deferentially ask him to sign my copy of "Technique" thinking everything he ever does is gold. I've heard the Freebass album, after all.
James Thomas wrote: No, homonyms have the same spelling but different meanings like tosser, knob and cock. You just can't spell.
Clearly you looked that up in the 8 minutes between posts.
condemnation wrote: Let's look at the significance of the pole shall we? 1 in 28 voted New Order more legitimate (according to your calculations). No surprise, seeing it's a New Order forum, not a Peter Hook forum. But, lets put these figures out and translate them to the real World. Lets say that? You are basically saying that 2800 people would go to a New Order show compared to 100 at a Peter Hook show?
In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.
I get it, this forum is your school playground, the way you are talking suggests you must be in the 11-12 year old range?
I really don't get your logic.
"You are basically saying that 2800 people would go to a New Order show compared to 100 at a Peter Hook show?"
If (new) New Order were playing a venue next door to a Light concert and folk with a passing interest in the whole JD/NO thang had to choose which one they went into then what do you think the ratios would be then?
You've got to admit, in the current climate, New Order would probably romp home with this one.
Do you really think otherwise?
Impressed that the Light get 2k down under though. That's decent viewing figures.
If New Order reform though... that puts Hooky's potential plan to play the NO albums in a much less attractive light to promotoers and time/babysitter/cash-poor fans, as a promoter could get the "real thing" instead of the "ex-real thing"
Boatraceface wrote: Hello Hooky! Y'know,your Jack's grammar is always so much better than yours is.
First thing I thought! 
mark reed wrote: If New Order reform though... that puts Hooky's potential plan to play the NO albums in a much less attractive light to promotoers and time/babysitter/cash-poor fans, as a promoter could get the "real thing" instead of the "ex-real thing"
In fairness, I'd probably still go. 
Though those boys seem to shy away from the South of England for some reason. :\ohwell:
Hooky is starting to sound like that Les McQueen bloke in League of Gentlemen. "It's a shit business son", "What, you never heard of us??!!"
His statement is so ego-drenched and delusional you have to wonder if he was being entirely facetious. Then you remember he 'wrote' Unknown Pleasures, invented acid house, wrote the bassline to TBTHOG, invented the wheel, was responsible for the first downloaded album ever etc etc.
And realise, depressingly, it was probably written with a straight face. I await the Hacienda branded cure for cancer with interest. Hopefully he'll throw in the oven gloves gratis if I buy Rob Gretton's sister in law's Vauxhall Corsa.
Cee Cee wrote: Hooky is starting to sound like that Les McQueen bloke in League of Gentlemen. "It's a shit business son", "What, you never heard of us??!!"
His statement is so ego-drenched and delusional you have to wonder if he was being entirely facetious. Then you remember he 'wrote' Unknown Pleasures, invented acid house, wrote the bassline to TBTHOG, invented the wheel, was responsible for the first downloaded album ever etc etc.
And realise, depressingly, it was probably written with a straight face. I await the Hacienda branded cure for cancer with interest. Hopefully he'll throw in the oven gloves gratis if I buy Rob Gretton's sister in law's Vauxhall Corsa.
What is it with people setting up profiles in different names just to make it look like lots of people hate hooky, it's probably only 3-4 people, grow up, have one profile and use your name you pricks.
TBF not much happens in NO world and this is the first time I've felt strongly enough to post on the site. But the constant...constant...CONSTANT shilling of the NO/JD/Hacienda/lost 3p on every copy thing is beyond grating.
To compare himself to Freddie Mercury in Queen is fucking crackers and a comment as risible as any made by his 'mate' Mani when supergroup 'Freebass' disbanded.
As I suspect the few thousand people that will return from the two gigs in October will happily confirm.
I think it's pretty clear that Hooky's "Queen without Freddie Mercury, U2 without The Edge" comment was made tongue in cheek. Did the Sooty and Sweep reference (and then the exclamation mark) not give it away?
I met Hooky a couple of years ago at a 'How Not To Run A Club' book signing. They say you should never meet your heroes, but he was really nice, very gracious to all the fans that turned out to meet him. I may not agree with all the things he's been up to recently, but he's a nice guy, he's put a lot back into Manchester, and he's helped create some absolutely fantastic music. We should all show him a bit more trust and respect.
I should add that I am not taking sides here. I really like Bad Lieutenant, I'm pleased that the rest of New Order have semi-reformed, and I would have gone to see them in Paris if I could have gotten a ticket. It's sad the way things have turned out, but being angry at Hooky is not the answer.
Jees like band like fans. It's all getting into childish nonsense territory. So much negativity. Quite depressing.
NO Regret wrote: Jees like band like fans. It's all getting into childish nonsense territory. So much negativity. Quite depressing.
True, I'm hanging my head in shame at my out burst, but the negativity is just getting on my tits!
El Jarvo wrote:
condemnation wrote: Let's look at the significance of the pole shall we? 1 in 28 voted New Order more legitimate (according to your calculations). No surprise, seeing it's a New Order forum, not a Peter Hook forum. But, lets put these figures out and translate them to the real World. Lets say that? You are basically saying that 2800 people would go to a New Order show compared to 100 at a Peter Hook show?
In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.
I get it, this forum is your school playground, the way you are talking suggests you must be in the 11-12 year old range?
I really don't get your logic.
"You are basically saying that 2800 people would go to a New Order show compared to 100 at a Peter Hook show?"
If (new) New Order were playing a venue next door to a Light concert and folk with a passing interest in the whole JD/NO thang had to choose which one they went into then what do you think the ratios would be then?
You've got to admit, in the current climate, New Order would probably romp home with this one.
Do you really think otherwise?
Impressed that the Light get 2k down under though. That's decent viewing figures.
My simple point is that people are over analysing the poll, that was it. So if you multiply the poll in reality, that's what you would get. Which isn't true. And again, it was in response to a members post attempting to put Hooky in the garbage.
I've already stated that of course New Order are going to be the bigger draw card, that's only natural and goes without saying. This scenario has gotten way out of hand. Back to the point, it's just an online poll. I was only trying to point out the childish behaviour of trying to constantly demean Peter Hook that a certain forum member was focusing on.
That's desperate for people to sign in under different names and go on the attack! LOL
James Thomas wrote:
condemnation wrote:
Poll and pole is not a spelling error, it's a homonym!
No, homonyms have the same spelling but different meanings like tosser, knob and cock. You just can't spell.
It was a sarcastic joke. Any prize on here for the best spelling and grammar on the neworderonline.com forum?
The best possibility is seeing two completely different takes on song material by those who we must admit are our heroes. Now... let's move on kiddies. 
underdog69 wrote: The best possibility is seeing two completely different takes on song material by those who we must admit are our heroes. Now... let's move on kiddies.
I've stated before, the New Order shows are going to go well, the money is being raised for a good cause and will also bring hope to New Order fans around the World that the band may continue touring, when most people thought it wouldn't happen again. The fans will be ecstatic, and rightly so.
I'm repaeating myself again, for those that may not have seen me mention that in other threads. Just sick of the constant flaming, that's all.
James Thomas wrote:
condemnation wrote: In no way am I undermining New Order, but having seen The Light on numerous occasions, I can assure you there were more than 100 people there. Let's try 1500-2000!.
Obviously you draw a crowd when you visit a backwater that gets very little in the way of culture.
Ease up, I know it's easy to sneer when you come from the cultural hub that is Yorkshire
Heroes? I don't have any. Not even my Mum.
Though this whole Hooky Vs NO thing is stale now ; and if we're not careful, could stray into the "unmentionable" territority of Pink Floyd vs Roger Waters which probably culminated in duals by fencing between warring forumites.
I wish each of them, individually, and collectively, the best success for the future.
NotAMod wrote:
[orange]Jack[/orange] wrote: anything he has had to say to michael he has said in private, not everything needs to be discussed in the public domain
what i will say though is that when you don't know the FACTS you should not jump to conclusions. there are no angels here.
Fair dos, he's obviously entitled not to say anything about a private matter. I just spotted in the statements that the Shamberg topic had not really been touched on.
I don't think most fans have drawn absolute conclusions on it all. We can only go on what's written in various interviews and the press so far which just seems incredibly bitter (from both sides). Anyone with half a brain knows that there are dealings behind the scenes which none of us have knowledge of. No average fan really knows who's in the moral right or wrong in any of those dealings. Could be Bernard, could be Hooky... only the lawyers know.
Your new avatar is wonderful, Ally. I would just like to quickly point out, however, that if we live in a world where it's up to lawyers to decide what's "morally right" we really are all completely fucked.
Still, quite feisty round these parts now innit. I look forward to New New Order playing subsequent benefit gigs for the long-term unemployed, ie - me and Mick. ROCK 'N' ROLL, NOT DOLE etc.
