Hooky's Response

NotAMod wrote:

JV wrote:

condemnation wrote: It's been stated many times that Bernard didn't want any more JD live material to be released, so I guess it's the same with New Order.

So, we will probably be lucky to get the WFTSC outtakes.

Stated where?

That is a good point actually. I don't really recall reading any interviews with Bernard where he specifically says he "doesn't want" further Joy Division material released. I do remember around the time of the Joy Division remasters in 2007 that he reportedly considered the ULU gig on the Closer reissue "a favourite". There is admittedly that aspect to Bernard where he doesn't like dwelling on the past.

The Rare and Unseen Footage DVD was released as recently as 2008 which was overseen principally by Hooky and Steve so it does seem possible the band can release older stuff.

I agree with JV really... there are more than enough Joy Division live albums out there, not to mention Still, the Peel Sessions and discs 3 and 4 of Heart & Soul. Do we really need more?

That said, it would be nice to hear some '81 to '93 era New Order gigs at some point. A few have leaked out from various blogs over the years but something official would be good. Unfortunately, I wouldn't trust Rhino to make a cup of tea without burning the place down much less oversee a collection of live albums

It's a known fact. I was also commenting after reading the interview, where the link was just posted, Hooky reiterates that fact again.

New Order have released quite a few live videos and dvd's over the years, that's for sure. The only live audio is the BBC concert and the CD that comes with the boxset. Audio wise, it's not a great deal.

(From that interview in the Metro)

We split up five years ago and stopped working together. And, it’s a long time. And really, our relationship has been terrible ever since we stopped working together. So I’m not in a hurry to work with that bastard and I’m sure he’s not in a f—ing hurry to work with me. But they didn’t tell me that they had made this decision. And there have also been some, shall we say, little business shenanigans, which have proved to be quite distressing, which I’m sorting out at the moment. It’s not been nice, and I didn’t expect it to be nice.

I don't really care what these business issues are, and it's none of my business, but I hope these don't affect the gigs.

condemnation wrote: New Order have released quite a few live videos and dvd's over the years, that's for sure. The only live audio is the BBC concert and the CD that comes with the boxset. Audio wise, it's not a great deal.

Unless of course you rip the audio off the DVDs. At least you can listen in the car that way.

The problem with the live stuff is that New Order have such a strange relationship with quality control. It's taken me a while to learn this---and it applies to virtually all groups---but rare doesn't necessarily equal good. The bonus disc with Glasgow was cool, but I actually keep revisiting the main concert disc more than the dodgy semi bootleg footage. The Glasgow show is just really well mixed and the band sound much better than on 511.

I'm sure they have some choice gigs with great audio and great performances. In some ways Bernard was a better singer in 83-84 than he was in 1985. Some of the live stuff from '85 that I've heard is ridiculous, almost piss takes. And the blame can be spread around. Never liked Hooky's sound on PFD. It really grates after a while, and is WAY louder than everything else bar Steve's snare drum.

Aries wrote:

condemnation wrote: New Order have released quite a few live videos and dvd's over the years, that's for sure. The only live audio is the BBC concert and the CD that comes with the boxset. Audio wise, it's not a great deal.

Unless of course you rip the audio off the DVDs. At least you can listen in the car that way.

At least we can do that now, in the 80's, it was taping from the video, onto cassette, which was terrible.

JV wrote: The problem with the live stuff is that New Order have such a strange relationship with quality control. It's taken me a while to learn this---and it applies to virtually all groups---but rare doesn't necessarily equal good. The bonus disc with Glasgow was cool, but I actually keep revisiting the main concert disc more than the dodgy semi bootleg footage. The Glasgow show is just really well mixed and the band sound much better than on 511.

I'm sure they have some choice gigs with great audio and great performances. In some ways Bernard was a better singer in 83-84 than he was in 1985. Some of the live stuff from '85 that I've heard is ridiculous, almost piss takes. And the blame can be spread around. Never liked Hooky's sound on PFD. It really grates after a while, and is WAY louder than everything else bar Steve's snare drum.

New Order, more so than other bands I think. A lot of the shows were hit and miss, that's why I liked collecting them, you never knew what toy were going to get, or what silly thing Bernard would say.

PFD isn't the best, the band weren't happy with that. Everything sounds really thin, apart from the drums. Both the guitars and the bass are grating.

condemnation wrote:

JV wrote: The problem with the live stuff is that New Order have such a strange relationship with quality control. It's taken me a while to learn this---and it applies to virtually all groups---but rare doesn't necessarily equal good. The bonus disc with Glasgow was cool, but I actually keep revisiting the main concert disc more than the dodgy semi bootleg footage. The Glasgow show is just really well mixed and the band sound much better than on 511.

I'm sure they have some choice gigs with great audio and great performances. In some ways Bernard was a better singer in 83-84 than he was in 1985. Some of the live stuff from '85 that I've heard is ridiculous, almost piss takes. And the blame can be spread around. Never liked Hooky's sound on PFD. It really grates after a while, and is WAY louder than everything else bar Steve's snare drum.

New Order, more so than other bands I think. A lot of the shows were hit and miss, that's why I liked collecting them, you never knew what toy were going to get, or what silly thing Bernard would say.

PFD isn't the best, the band weren't happy with that. Everything sounds really thin, apart from the drums. Both the guitars and the bass are grating.

There's that footage from Belgium on youtube that has similar problems. They were doing way too much cocaine in 1985. Live, it's the least dreamy sounding era for the band.

El Jarvo wrote:

Boatraceface wrote: Hello Hooky! Y'know,your Jack's grammar is always so much better than yours is.

First thing I thought!

Bleedin obvious! Proper sussed!

Hooky responds again.

Five wrote: Hooky responds again.

He spelled it Michael Schamberg...

JV wrote:

Five wrote: Hooky responds again.

He spelled it Michael Schamberg...

lol... no doubt prompted by here probably...

I've not been about for a couple of days and cor blimey.. NO is back NOOL is back... and a fired up JG is back too... Rock on.

http://consequenceofsound.net/2011/09/interview-peter-hook-of-joy-division-new-order/

....from page 2 of the interview

...The reason why I’m doing the Joy Division book is because I’m sick of everyone reading books about Joy Division by people who weren’t there and weren’t even close to us at all.

(Hmm...interesting....)

If you were to take something from this experience what would it be?

You see the problem that I had when the band split up was that I was an alcoholic. Because I was an alcoholic, I had no confidence. I was severely wounded in myself. I had no strength of character and wasn’t able to stand up to Bernard. I wasn’t able to stand up to Steve. I just couldn’t explain myself. It took me a long time to just…find myself. As corny as that sounds. However, when New Order split up I couldn’t explain to anybody why or what the problem was—now I can. It’s just too late isn’t it? But I’m happy now. The only thing that makes me unhappy is when they act in the deplorable fashion that they do now. It’s sad. It’s like children fighting in the playground. I must say that I am guilty as anybody. If I could change one thing I would change our relationship so that we could say to each other, “I’m going to do this… is that ok?” because if you have a discourse or a relationship… everything is much easier that way. If you just go about screaming at each other…it’s just going to lead to destruction. You begin to enjoy nothing. I’m happy New Order is playing because I always wanted New Order to play. It was me who protested “Let’s play! Let’s play!” for years and years…until I got fed up in saying it. So I wont be unhappy I just wish it was done in a more honorable fashion. That’s the painful bit. I would even pay to go see them play…because I love New Order.

What would bring that relationship back in New Order?

The thing is, I have the utmost respect for Bernard and Steve as musicians and I always have had. Gillian came in and she helped New Order but it was truly the three of us – Bernard, Steve, and myself – who were New Order. The thing is I respect their musicianship so much and the songs we created are the things that should break down any barriers. But, you can’t get through because there are a lot of people who have ulterior motives. You have a lot of management and agents who just can’t seem to handle it. Musicians are supposed to act like children, aren’t they? It’s in our breed to act like idiots. You know what I mean? So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big cane.

He gives the impression that Gillian's role in New Order somehow wasn't as valid as his, Stephen's and Bernard's. This suggests that she has returned to merely increase their percentage against his.

Andy wrote: He gives the impression that Gillian's role in New Order somehow wasn't as valid as his, Stephen's and Bernard's. This suggests that she has returned to merely increase their percentage against his.

When Gillian was a member of New Order before she left, she didn't just help; she was also a proper member too. I know I'm a younger fan, but I can see how she wasn't just helping the men in the band.

All these people talking about New Order's songwriting methods like experts. 'Gillian's a great programmer', 'Gillian added so much to New Order' etc etc etc....How does anybody know this? When have the band laid out their songwriting process in this amount of detail for people to make these statements? And ultimately, who gives a fuck?

If it's a choice between seeing Hooky stomp all over the stage and completely own it or watching Gillian mooch about looking sultry in the background I know what'll make for a more entertaining New Order experience. But it's not to be and we'll still have fun regardless happy with whoever's shown up to play for us. There's too much analysis, conjecture and thought going into something we should all just be enjoying.

GlasVegas wrote: All these people talking about New Order's songwriting methods like experts. 'Gillian's a great programmer', 'Gillian added so much to New Order' etc etc etc....How does anybody know this? When have the band laid out their songwriting process in this amount of detail for people to make these statements?

FWIW, I remember reading an long interview with her and Steve years ago (couldn't tell you the magazine) where the whole thing was a discussion of synth equipment and the two of them were just geeking out with the tech-speak. It wasn't just Steve talking with her nodding and giggling-- she was holding her own. That doesn't necessarily mean she was an equal 25% of the songwriting process, granted, but she wasn't just a hired hand told to 'press the third button from the right when I glare at you,' either. She knew what she was talking about (to the point where I kinda wished they'd brought in a translator).

God, when Bernard said Hooky didn't respect Gillian, he wasn't kidding, was he?

leather_girl wrote:

Andy wrote: He gives the impression that Gillian's role in New Order somehow wasn't as valid as his, Stephen's and Bernard's. This suggests that she has returned to merely increase their percentage against his.

When Gillian was a member of New Order before she left, she didn't just help; she was also a proper member too. I know I'm a younger fan, but I can see how she wasn't just helping the men in the band.

Right on Leather Girl.

Housey wrote:

GlasVegas wrote: All these people talking about New Order's songwriting methods like experts. 'Gillian's a great programmer', 'Gillian added so much to New Order' etc etc etc....How does anybody know this? When have the band laid out their songwriting process in this amount of detail for people to make these statements?

FWIW, I remember reading an long interview with her and Steve years ago (couldn't tell you the magazine) where the whole thing was a discussion of synth equipment and the two of them were just geeking out with the tech-speak. It wasn't just Steve talking with her nodding and giggling-- she was holding her own. That doesn't necessarily mean she was an equal 25% of the songwriting process, granted, but she wasn't just a hired hand told to 'press the third button from the right when I glare at you,' either. She knew what she was talking about (to the point where I kinda wished they'd brought in a translator).

God, when Bernard said Hooky didn't respect Gillian, he wasn't kidding, was he?

And I had always guessed from the early live videos that Bernard was impatient with Gillian! I bet that dynamic changed quickly once they started using the sequencers and she became more involved.

There's a Rapido clip from 1988/89 and it's Steve, Gillian, and Bernard talking about how rock music is redundant. Then there's a separate interview with Hooky talking about Joy Division, the JD legacy, and U2. For a casual interview, it oddly foreshadows the much deeper split, and Hooky's fixation with Joy Division's frozen in time nature.

well i usually only lurk on here these days but this has poked me from out from under my rock. the fact that gillian and hooky dont get on is nothing new really, i remember back in the eighties either gillian calling hooky a pig or at the very least hooky saying she thinks he is one. As for her role in new order? in my opinion without her they wouldnt have shined as brightly, yeah they would have been great ,but she added a different dynamic to the band that not many others had or have at present. the fact that shes back in the line-up now that hooky is gone is no suprise , i doubt she would have had he been in on the gigs. its all a shame really , id love to see what i would call "new order" ie ; barney, steve ,gillian and hooky, back on stage at least ,then we could see the ginger twat finally pushed into the orchestra pit,but i doubt it will ever happen.

Hooky wrote: So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big can[e].

GlasVegas wrote: All these people talking about New Order's songwriting methods like experts. 'Gillian's a great programmer', 'Gillian added so much to New Order' etc etc etc....How does anybody know this? When have the band laid out their songwriting process in this amount of detail for people to make these statements? And ultimately, who gives a fuck?

If it's a choice between seeing Hooky stomp all over the stage and completely own it or watching Gillian mooch about looking sultry in the background I know what'll make for a more entertaining New Order experience. But it's not to be and we'll still have fun regardless happy with whoever's shown up to play for us. There's too much analysis, conjecture and thought going into something we should all just be enjoying.

Have a look at this article:

True Faith

In particular the third paragraph under the heading Planning Vs Jamming. That'll give you some insight into Gillian's 'input'. As for Hooky stomping all over the stage, give me the reserved and detached early NO performances every time.

Rorschach wrote:

Hooky wrote: So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big can[e].

Post of the week

Elegia wrote:

Have a look at this article:

True Faith

"on 'True Faith' the low bass was programmed"

Wow

Rorschach wrote:

Hooky wrote: So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big can[e].

I was going to come on here to suggest we light some candles, grab hands and summon Mr. Gretton.

Housey wrote:

Rorschach wrote:

Hooky wrote: So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big can[e].

I was going to come on here to suggest we light some candles, grab hands and summon Mr. Gretton.

I agree this would be a good idea. They are, and always will be, a bunch of fucking retarded children. Without Gretton to kick them up the arse and call them as the cunts they most certainly are the current state of affairs is the inevitable result.

Plus, I'll do pretty much anything if it stops Colin banging on about Japanese fanny.

"I love Michael, he's a great friend. I think I've been elbowed out by the others because I learned about New Order's reunion when you learned about it. And that isn't strictly fair because I'm in a business partnership with them," Hook says. "But five years has given me a lot of time and space to reflect. If they want to carry on as New Order I can't stop them because there are more of them than me. And I'm actually quite happy for them. I'm sorry that I didn't know anything about the concert because I would've been delighted to do anything to help Michael."

Given the group's long history (Hook has known Sumner since they were 11), he talks about Joy Division as the best time of his music career. "We were equal in Joy Division, although it wasn't like that in New Order. We put in 25 percent four ways. Compared to everything else I've had in my entire career, Unknown Pleasures was very idealistic. When we got to Closer, it changed because of Ian's illness."

Maybe they would have invited Hooky back if it really was a one off to help an old friend and the reason he wasn't asked is because this is a full reunion which will lead to more shows next year and more new music down the line. The point being that they don't want him being any part of their future plans. Again,pure speculation on my part.

In recent interviews, Bernard has said that he doesn't think he could work with Hooky any more. So charity or not, I don't think Bernard would've tried to invite Hooky anyway. I'd rather see them work separately than be miserable together however.