Shug wrote:
GlasVegas wrote: There's too much analysis, conjecture and thought going into something we should all just be enjoying.
Amen brother
Wel said
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Hooky's Response
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This is an archived legacy thread. Replies are closed, but the discussion is preserved.
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Christ almighty, I knew that New Order weren't exactly the tallest of people but that Rob Gretton looks like he's about nine feet tall here.....
leather_girl wrote: http://consequenceofsound.net/2011/09/interview-peter-hook-of-joy-division-new-order/
What would bring that relationship back in New Order?
The thing is, I have the utmost respect for Bernard and Steve as musicians and I always have had. Gillian came in and she helped New Order but it was truly the three of us – Bernard, Steve, and myself – who were New Order. The thing is I respect their musicianship so much and the songs we created are the things that should break down any barriers. But, you can’t get through because there are a lot of people who have ulterior motives. You have a lot of management and agents who just can’t seem to handle it.
This basically reads that from Hooky's point of view between 1981 and 1998 Gillian was not a fully fledged member of the band as previously thought which quite frankly rocks the average fan's viewpoint. Is he saying that she "helped out" or was a hired hand rather than contributing anything meaningful as a band member? Is this factually accurate? What do the rest of them make of that? This is quite literally new to fans so the question remains why was nothing mentioned before?
Odd.
Musicians are supposed to act like children, aren’t they? It’s in our breed to act like idiots. You know what I mean? So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big cane.
No they're fucking not 
where is it written that musicians must act like arseholes and be whipped into shape by slightly more sensible people? This is a weak attempt at shifting responsibility (for all four of them) for behaviour past and present. It's sad to read but may be tongue in cheek.
Without assigning blame it's obvious that Bernard, Stephen, Gillian and Hooky have over 30 years experience in the muso industry. They split up once before for over five years before coming back together in a very enthusiastic manner. Saying "I behaved liked a child" and demanding an adult come into clean it up just sounds like a cop out.
I'm a huge fan of Hooky as much as the others, always have been and always will be but it's just bizarre to read. Very sad that it's come to this.
NotAMod wrote:
What would bring that relationship back in New Order?
The thing is, I have the utmost respect for Bernard and Steve as musicians and I always have had. Gillian came in and she helped New Order but it was truly the three of us – Bernard, Steve, and myself – who were New Order. The thing is I respect their musicianship so much and the songs we created are the things that should break down any barriers. But, you can’t get through because there are a lot of people who have ulterior motives. You have a lot of management and agents who just can’t seem to handle it.
This basically means from Hooky's point of view that between 1981 and 1998 Gillian was not a member of the band as previously thought which quite frankly rocks the average fan's viewpoint. He's basically saying she "helped out" or was a hired hand rather than contributing anything meaningful as a fully fledged band member. Is this factually accurate? What does Steve think of this? Or Bernard? This is literally quite new to fans so the question remains why was nothing mentioned before?
Musicians are supposed to act like children, aren’t they? It’s in our breed to act like idiots. You know what I mean? So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big cane.
No they're fucking not, where is it written that musicians must act like arseholes and be whipped into shape by slightly more sensible people? This is a weak attempt at shifting responsibility for behaviour past and present. It's sad to read.
Without assigning blame it's obvious that Bernard, Stephen, Gillian and Hooky have over 30 years experience in the muso industry. They split up once before for over five years before coming back together in a very enthusiastic manner. Saying "I behaved liked a child" and demanding an adult come into clean it up just sound like a cop out...
I'm a huge fan of Hooky as much as the others, always have been and always will be but it's just bizarre to read all this.
I always thought much of Technique... (and loads of the good bits) were created in happiness by Gillian and Steve on their Mac (see RnR, Mr Disco, Vanishing Point and Dream Attack), when the band functioned as a four piece. Trouble is much of Republic was cobbled together by those two when no-one else would talk to each other.
You look at the interview posted elsewhere with Stephen Hague re: Toothache and she appears to have been the most organised and useful of the lot of them.
Tis dead weird seeing Mr H virtually put her down as being the tea-maker. 
When i went to Reading in 98, and to a gig or two before, i was astonished how much work Gillian has done in reviving old songs e.g. Isolation, Heart and Soul etc. If she's done the same pre latest gigs, we might be in for a treat.
From that recent statement by Hooky and a recent interview with Gillian saying that Hooky is being "horrible", one can assume that the relationship between Hooky and Gillian & Steve is very bad right now. For years? Who knows.
So did Bernard, Steve and Gillian change her status recently as far as legal rights in the group, so Hooky went from 33% share to 25% share of New Order? Did Gillian not have a full share in the past? All part of the chess game I suppose.
Do you have a personal opinion 0_o?
You always have had in the past.
You've gone all "UN" on us and very diplomatic.
Burt Burterson wrote:
NotAMod wrote:
What would bring that relationship back in New Order?
The thing is, I have the utmost respect for Bernard and Steve as musicians and I always have had. Gillian came in and she helped New Order but it was truly the three of us – Bernard, Steve, and myself – who were New Order. The thing is I respect their musicianship so much and the songs we created are the things that should break down any barriers. But, you can’t get through because there are a lot of people who have ulterior motives. You have a lot of management and agents who just can’t seem to handle it.
This basically means from Hooky's point of view that between 1981 and 1998 Gillian was not a member of the band as previously thought which quite frankly rocks the average fan's viewpoint. He's basically saying she "helped out" or was a hired hand rather than contributing anything meaningful as a fully fledged band member. Is this factually accurate? What does Steve think of this? Or Bernard? This is literally quite new to fans so the question remains why was nothing mentioned before?
Musicians are supposed to act like children, aren’t they? It’s in our breed to act like idiots. You know what I mean? So we need mature people, adults, to say “Stop that, sit down, and shut up…this is more important.” I wish we had a couple of adults who could look after us. A nice teacher with a big cane.
No they're fucking not, where is it written that musicians must act like arseholes and be whipped into shape by slightly more sensible people? This is a weak attempt at shifting responsibility for behaviour past and present. It's sad to read.
Without assigning blame it's obvious that Bernard, Stephen, Gillian and Hooky have over 30 years experience in the muso industry. They split up once before for over five years before coming back together in a very enthusiastic manner. Saying "I behaved liked a child" and demanding an adult come into clean it up just sound like a cop out...
I'm a huge fan of Hooky as much as the others, always have been and always will be but it's just bizarre to read all this.
I always thought much of Technique... (and loads of the good bits) were created in happiness by Gillian and Steve on their Mac (see RnR, Mr Disco, Vanishing Point and Dream Attack), when the band functioned as a four piece. Trouble is much of Republic was cobbled together by those two when no-one else would talk to each other.
You look at the interview posted elsewhere with Stephen Hague re: Toothache and she appears to have been the most organised and useful of the lot of them.
Tis dead weird seeing Mr H virtually put her down as being the tea-maker.
When i went to Reading in 98, and to a gig or two before, i was astonished how much work Gillian has done in reviving old songs e.g. Isolation, Heart and Soul etc. If she's done the same pre latest gigs, we might be in for a treat.
Generally agree about Gillian's increased involvement, especially around the time of Technique. Bernard did say of Mr Disco that it was his attempted aim at 'the chicken in the basket set'.
It actually would've been interesting to hear how the dual guitar sound of 'All The Way', 'Love Less', and 'Run' would've evolved had they not largely abandoned that approach on Republic. I think by Technique Gillian was playing most of her own guitar parts on the record, whereas she didn't play much guitar on the first three albums.
The most telling thing about Hooky's spate of interviews is that he never got over the break up of Joy Division. I know he says he loves what New Order did, but he doesn't speak anymore about how great the New Order song catalogue is. I think that outlook contributes to some (American) attitudes that New Order is some (31 year!) afterthought to Joy Division.
I know people might say, 'stop analysing' but I can't help thinking when certain people say things like this in interviews.
From what I've heard and read about New Order, Gillian was a full member of New Order when she was in the band, right? I may be misinterpreting his words, but Hooky's bit in that interview does make it sound like he thinks that she was just a 'helper' or a supporting member instead of an actual contributing full member. I find this odd because, like others have said, I've never heard of that regarding Gillian before. Maybe on some songs she did more work than on other songs. But surely when she was in the band over those years, she did more than just help out?
Actually, come to think of it, Thieves Like Us like us may be Gillian's first major songwriting credit. I really can't imagine Bernard and Steve sorting out all her synth parts for her in the studio. It's a simple song, but the orchestration paved the way for The Perfect Kiss, Subculture, Bizarre Love Triangle, etc.
leather_girl wrote: I know people might say, 'stop analysing' but I can't help thinking when certain people say things like this in interviews.
From what I've heard and read about New Order, Gillian was a full member of New Order when she was in the band, right? I may be misinterpreting his words, but Hooky's bit in that interview does make it sound like he thinks that she was just a 'helper' or a supporting member instead of an actual contributing full member. I find this odd because, like others have said, I've never heard of that regarding Gillian before. Maybe on some songs she did more work than on other songs. But surely when she was in the band over those years, she did more than just help out?
People also have to keep in mind, that when you are angry, you can quite often say things that you don't mean, with full intent of your comments being aimed at a particular person. We've all done it before, and being in the public eye, quoting things in interviews about others, it's something that you may live to regret in the future.
This is a private matter, being made public. Does it really matter to New Order fans what share Gillian's is in New Order. I also knew her guitar playing wasn't great, but I never thought any less of her. This also relates to people coming on here and saying "Hooky's bass playing was shit and any one can do it" blah blah. Either way, I don't get it.
You look up BL live on Youtube, Ceremony, Temptation, BLT, Atmosphere, whatever, that's how it's going to be when New Order play, and Gillian standing at the keyboards instead of Phil and 5 times the amount of people, because the gig is being done under New Order not BL.
Burt Burterson wrote: Trouble is much of Republic was cobbled together by those two when no-one else would talk to each other.
Is that really the case?
I remember in the Mojo interview when Get Ready was released, Sumner indicated that all the others absented themselves for large parts of the recording of Republic, and that he was climbing up the studio walls, desperate for the others to help out.
Tony Casanova wrote:
Burt Burterson wrote: Trouble is much of Republic was cobbled together by those two when no-one else would talk to each other.
Is that really the case?
I remember in the Mojo interview when Get Ready was released, Sumner indicated that all the others absented themselves for large parts of the recording of Republic, and that he was climbing up the studio walls, desperate for the others to help out.
Hooky said they were recording Republic separately, that is, one is in, the others are out. I guess much like the White Album :)
JV wrote: Actually, come to think of it, Thieves Like Us like us may be Gillian's first major songwriting credit. I really can't imagine Bernard and Steve sorting out all her synth parts for her in the studio. It's a simple song, but the orchestration paved the way for The Perfect Kiss, Subculture, Bizarre Love Triangle, etc.
When World in Motion was released, Bernard stated that Gillian had written the music (it was derived from the Reportage theme music - credited to Gillian and Stephen) and he felt that was the way things were headed.
Andy wrote:
JV wrote: Actually, come to think of it, Thieves Like Us like us may be Gillian's first major songwriting credit. I really can't imagine Bernard and Steve sorting out all her synth parts for her in the studio. It's a simple song, but the orchestration paved the way for The Perfect Kiss, Subculture, Bizarre Love Triangle, etc.
When World in Motion was released, Bernard stated that Gillian had written the music (it was derived from the Reportage theme music - credited to Gillian and Stephen) and he felt that was the way things were headed.
New Order were a fantastic collection: Gillian and Steve were really into pure pop exploitations; Hooky's all into edgy post-punk and Bernard was a great melody maker... They were great when they had to balance these different approaches... that's what made them so great. Once apart, the magic just isn't the same.
Actually, come to think of it, Thieves Like Us like us may be Gillian's first major songwriting credit. I really can't imagine Bernard and Steve sorting out all her synth parts for her in the studio. It's a simple song, but the orchestration paved the way for The Perfect Kiss, Subculture, Bizarre Love Triangle, etc.
They all jammed that out in Arthur Baker's studio while they were also recording Confusion. Later on it was arranged and re-recorded back in the UK.
leather_girl wrote: I know people might say, 'stop analysing' but I can't help thinking when certain people say things like this in interviews.
How do we even know what was said in any interview?
It could've been taken out of context, or even misquoted.
It might've been said, but completely tongue in cheek.
Ok, so in the SF examiner interview Hooky says this:
"So last week, it was jumped on me about New Order reforming, and what they’ve also tried to do is get me out of the company. I’m not bothered about them getting back together. But I do have rights to the name New Order, and what they’ve done is diminish my rights in a boardroom shuffle while I was away DJing in China. And what bothered me was the surreptitious and frankly disgusting, underhanded way they went about it"
Interesting.
"So the decision for “New Order” — and I’ll use the term in brackets — is whether they emulate my bass or get rid of it, like they did in Bad Lieutenant, when they dropped my bass sound on New Order songs and played the parts on keyboards."
Huh! No, they got a bass player to play them, odd.
It is interesting to note though that since the two gigs were announced almost a fortnight ago we have heard precisely nothing from "The Other Three" beyond the initial statement explaining it's for Shamberg.
It looks like all of these interviews with Hooky were going to be done anyway as part of The Light's USA promo trail but naturally they have been revolving around the one question. I bet that's grated on Hooky after a while which is understandable to be fair.
Wonder if the others will break their silence closer to the gigs.
"Well, the strange thing is, I was reading the band’s online forum — as you do when you want to revel in your misery"
See, even he's unhappy about it.
Theres no winners in all this.
Gene wrote: "Well, the strange thing is, I was reading the band’s online forum — as you do when you want to revel in your misery"
Oh no... NOOL's gotten absolutely anti-Hooky lately... Timing cannot be more perfect to read us, miserable fans here :(
Unfortunately, music fans are gonna talk about stuff to do with their favourite bands, that's a given. Would be naive to assume otherwise.
I don't think anyone here is saying they know all the facts or what's gone on over the years but the stuff in the public domain is going to be discussed and opinions formed. New Order were defunct for so long (5 years) that any piece of news is going to be poured over resulting in 10+ page threads.
Yes it's very sad but it's not like we're News Of The World reporters hacking into voicemails to get the information it's being put out there in promotional interviews by the band members themselves. We had the "controversial" Clash magazine interview a couple of months ago and now Hooky's promotional trail for The Light in the States.
We're at the point of where it's obvious they'll do what they want to do; Hooky's content doing The Light and the other three are doing New Order. Leave 'em to it
.Not being anti Bernard here, but that is what I was referring to when I said that Hooky was compelled to leave the band.
I realized that in New Order, Bernard managed to stop us doing virtually anything. We literally weren’t working very much.
That is what Hooky said basically back in May 2007.
BTW, Karina, thanks for the link!
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Not being anti Bernard here, but that is what I was referring to when I said that Hooky was compelled to leave the band.
I realized that in New Order, Bernard managed to stop us doing virtually anything. We literally weren’t working very much.
That is what Hooky said basically back in May 2007.
BTW, Karina, thanks for the link!
Er, that's my Twitter username but you are welcome.
That bit is interesting, too:
As soon as we split up, Bernard and I were slagging each other off royally in the press. It had to stop. We actually made an agreement to stop it. Everyone was getting upset. Our fans were getting upset, our management was getting upset, everyone. We made a deal to stop it. Then, when he started Bad Lieutenant, he started it back up again. So I phoned him up, and I went, “Hang on, I thought we had a deal that we weren’t going to do this.” He went, “Deal’s off.” I said, “Right. Fuck you, then.” We went straight back at it, and it’s been like that ever since.
It feels like New Order members have given more interviews this year alone than throughout their entire life. Not that it's bad, though.
well we cant complain can we, weve got hooky playing a lot of the joy division stuff live and loving it, and we have new order gigs upcoming which i seriously doubt will be anything but good. plus the possibilty of more, i know we would all love to see them a big happy family once again but maybe NOW isnt the time, at least theres hope id say. on a side note i never knew that hooky had bouts of alchoholism,and if it is the case, he is far better off being in the place he is, doing what he wants and needs too rather than being in a stressfull situation. ggod luck to all of em :)
Gene wrote: "Well, the strange thing is, I was reading the band’s online forum — as you do when you want to revel in your misery"
Not a lot of sympathy here, I'm afraid. This place is a fan site, and it is saddening to hear that he chooses to read it all, but then it's been brewing since the 3 year+ wait for the Freebass debacle, and the subsequent touring with the Light, which many here see as the cheapening of a legacy.
I think that Hooky's biggest problem right now, is his willingness to speak to anyone. He should take a leaf out of Barney's book and talk far more selectively, cos unfortunately he seems to dig himself deeper each time.
He also needs someone to read his statements before he releases them.
