Tell us how you really feel

Yeah, a reality TV show - kind of in the theme of a gameshow but with Keith Allen presenting it!

Call it, Behind Closed Doors.

. . .P O I S O N O U S I N T E N T . . .

Gene wrote:

CTB wrote: was thinking the same thing, stop this worrying trend now so we can enjoy the silence.

Its all getting a bit strange, love.

Be sure to never let me down again.

I think I much more prefer Hooky's bass rather than his mouth ... recently

I'm not making a judgement about who is in the right but...

The longer this goes on, the more I'm inclined to interpret the "New Order" camp's silence as confindence.

In turn, Hooky seems to be lashing out publicly because he has no other recourse.

I jus wish Hooky would shut the f*ck up, go back to doing his own stuff and let new order do theirs. Didn't hear steve/barney ever say thät hooky should be f* cked over because he plays out JD songs. They are smarter then that, live and let live hooky, move on man. U are the one that left NO, so stand by your choice and leave it like that. Twisted bitterness leads to nothing...

Just read Alex's comments on the original link - he says something that's occured to me too. Hooky has been pretty open about when he packed in drinking and it seems to disagree with what he's supposed to have said here. Also agree with Alex that the comments seem well overboard and don't sound like H's inimitable voice at all.

Hooky can say what he wants about who he wants, it's got fuck all to do with me. But it will be interesting to see his response to this, if only to see how accurate it turns out to be.

Housey wrote:

Shakin' Baker wrote: BUT, the anger at Gillian is weird - maybe it's because she represents the reason they can still be New Order i.e., if she was in the band and left and they still called themselves NO, why can't they call themselves NO when he's gone?

I absolutely think this is why. It seems to have gotten VERY personal with Hooky with respect to Gillian.

My fan theory, for what it's worth: NO could only be NO with 100% of the four of them in agreement. When she went on her leave of absence, I suspect they agreed that NO could only be NO with 75%, 75% being Barney/Hooky/Steve with Gillian abstaining. Remember, she didn't actually leave, she just went on the leave of absence that gradually became permanent. I suspect she never surrendered her interest, but *may* have promised not to assert it. I also wonder if the agreement wasn't clear as to EXACTLY who the three NO members had to be to comprise the 75%. Given their history of iffy legal decisions, I wouldn't be surprised that they had a poorly-worded agreement.

This explains why, when Hooky left, he was claiming to have 'a third'-- he didn't have 33%, he had a third of a 75%. It also explains why Steve and Barney couldn't continue as New Order, even though they were 2 people to Hooky's 1-- they only had 50% between them.

Enter Gillian. Bam, 75% and New Order is back in business.

So Hooky is furious, because he may have believed (I don't know what was promised) that she wasn't going to assert that interest, and now she has. This would explain all of the "Gillian never did anything useful" talk-- he's making the point in the press that she was NEVER entitled to an equal 25% share in New Order, Inc., and I wouldn't be surprised if his lawyer is now making that point behind the scenes.

Again, I don't know, but this scenario explains a lot, including how B/S/G's moves are legal, yet Hooky could feel that they're dirty.

Concur.

"...but they're doing it for financial reasons mainly."

Terrible when musicians do this sort of thing...

Snorri xxx

cranelane wrote:

M1 wrote: In declaring that Gillian is not a 'very good musician' is Hooky saying that he in fact is a 'very good musician'? I mean, really...

None of them could be classed as virtuoso musicians,apart from maybe Steve,we all have the live bootlegs to prove it..

Always made New Order live exciting, you never knew what you were going to get. Different sets, out of tune guitars, equipment stopping half way through a song, wrong tempo. That all made New Order, New Order, was, and still is really appealing to me.

Waz wrote:

.. Is Hooky delusional or getting senile? After each interview I read I can't decide

somebody give him a DRINK!

The Paradise Man wrote:

Gene wrote:

CTB wrote: was thinking the same thing, stop this worrying trend now so we can enjoy the silence.

Its all getting a bit strange, love.

Be sure to never let me down again.

Bernard, Hooky loves to hate you.

Oh, hang on, thats Erasure.

Ive plumbed new depths............

Gene wrote:

The Paradise Man wrote:

Gene wrote:

CTB wrote: was thinking the same thing, stop this worrying trend now so we can enjoy the silence.

Its all getting a bit strange, love.

Be sure to never let me down again.

Bernard, Hooky loves to hate you.

Oh, hang on, thats Erasure.

Ive plumbed new depths............

Hooky is just showing the other side of love. Ooops that's Yazoo.

BillONdollar wrote:

Waz wrote:

.. Is Hooky delusional or getting senile? After each interview I read I can't decide

somebody give him a DRINK!

Spot on. This is what happens when people buy into that vapid 12-steps horseshit.

Gnu Odor wrote:

The last New Order song was 'Regret.' The rest of them, to me, were electronic songs with bass on them.

I'm pretty sure this should be Electronic with a capital E... and I have to say, I pretty much agree.

Except that Electronic + Hooky's Bass should be better than Electronic alone, but the first Electronic album is a better record than Republic.

A lot of the songs made after 2001 were more rock/pop sounding..not so much dance. A lot of the more dancier(?) songs Bernard's made seems to be with Electronic (especially during their first two albums) and with collaborations (with Chemical Brothers, Blank and Jones, Hot Chip & Hot City...). There were some dance influenced New Order songs after 2001, but it was mainly songs like 'Here to Stay', 'GIAUE', and maybe 'Behind Closed Doors'. Most of the songs on 'Get Ready' and 'WFTSC' were not as dance/electronic influenced.

leather_girl wrote:

Gnu Odor wrote:

The last New Order song was 'Regret.' The rest of them, to me, were electronic songs with bass on them.

I'm pretty sure this should be Electronic with a capital E... and I have to say, I pretty much agree.

Except that Electronic + Hooky's Bass should be better than Electronic alone, but the first Electronic album is a better record than Republic.

A lot of the songs made after 2001 were more rock/pop sounding..not so much dance. A lot of the more dancier(?) songs Bernard's made seems to be with Electronic (especially during their first two albums) and with collaborations (with Chemical Brothers, Blank and Jones, Hot Chip & Hot City...). There were some dance influenced New Order songs after 2001, but it was mainly songs like 'Here to Stay', 'GIAUE', and maybe 'Behind Closed Doors'. Most of the songs on 'Get Ready' and 'WFTSC' were not as dance/electronic influenced.

What I think Hooky was trying to say is that the album Republic could have been released as the second Electronic album, apart from the single "Regret". A bit of an exaggeration, but the middle of Republic does seem like a Bernard solo album with session musicians. Hopefully Marr would have had better taste.

0_o wrote:

leather_girl wrote:

Gnu Odor wrote:

The last New Order song was 'Regret.' The rest of them, to me, were electronic songs with bass on them.

I'm pretty sure this should be Electronic with a capital E... and I have to say, I pretty much agree.

Except that Electronic + Hooky's Bass should be better than Electronic alone, but the first Electronic album is a better record than Republic.

A lot of the songs made after 2001 were more rock/pop sounding..not so much dance. A lot of the more dancier(?) songs Bernard's made seems to be with Electronic (especially during their first two albums) and with collaborations (with Chemical Brothers, Blank and Jones, Hot Chip & Hot City...). There were some dance influenced New Order songs after 2001, but it was mainly songs like 'Here to Stay', 'GIAUE', and maybe 'Behind Closed Doors'. Most of the songs on 'Get Ready' and 'WFTSC' were not as dance/electronic influenced.

What I think Hooky was trying to say that the album Republic could have been released as the second Electronic album, apart from the single "Regret". A bit of an exaggeration, but the middle of Republic does seem like a Berard solo album with session musicians. Hopefully Marr would have had better taste.

All right, I can accept that.

Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: Spot on. This is what happens when people buy into that vapid 12-steps horseshit.

My experience is that people in recovery tend to turn on their friends, especially if those friends are still enjoying their beverages. I wonder if it's a self-preservation move, get yourself away from...

(wait for it)

...temptation.

The arguments between Barney and Hooky I can kind of understand. They are both blokes with very strong opinions and have personalities that appear predisposed to standing their ground in an argument. In a way I am surprised they lasted as long as they did (I suppose Gretton kept them in check).

However, I cannot understand Hooky's argument with Gillian. Gillian (like Steve) appears to have a very pleasant personality. In interview Gillian comes over as a very sweet person - unlikely to argue the toss or be stroppy. It is all very strange. If I was Steve (as Gillian's husband) I would be looking to plant one on Hooky for what he has said. It seems like in one move Hooky has alienated himself from the whole band and a lot of their fans.

The picture at the top while I was reading all this was of Hooky pointing his finger at the rest of the band.

Adam Tate wrote: If I was Steve (as Gillian's husband) I would be looking to plant one on Hooky for what he has said.

Yep

johnny wrote:

Adam Tate wrote: If I was Steve (as Gillian's husband) I would be looking to plant one on Hooky for what he has said.

Yep

I also don't understand how Hooky claims that they (even Bernard and Steve) 'hated' Gillian.

leather_girl wrote:

I also don't understand how Hooky claims that they (even Bernard and Steve) 'hated' Gillian.

I presume he is trying to destabilise the group from the outside, The question is would it have been better to have him inside the tent pissing out,than outside the tent pissing in.

Housey wrote:

Clayhead Liberation Faction wrote: Spot on. This is what happens when people buy into that vapid 12-steps horseshit.

My experience is that people in recovery tend to turn on their friends, especially if those friends are still enjoying their beverages. I wonder if it's a self-preservation move, get yourself away from...

(wait for it)

...temptation.

You might be right. However, I was thinking more along the lines that someone needs to take him down the pub, buy him a beer and explain to him that he needs to stop acting like a total fucking cunt.

Oh absolutely. That or a slap upside the head.

I think Hooky-- in his mind-- isn't insulting Gillian personally. He did say in another interview that she was awesome for putting up with them. I think he may even like her. He's just saying he thinks she's a terrible musician.

The problem is, that's her job and there really isn't any way you can denigrate the way she does her job without it being personal, especially since he's not her boss. Your employer can say that you're shit at your job without it being personal, but not your co-worker.

Housey wrote: Oh absolutely. That or a slap upside the head.

I think Hooky-- in his mind-- isn't insulting Gillian personally. He did say in another interview that she was awesome for putting up with them. I think he may even like her. He's just saying he thinks she's a terrible musician.

The problem is, that's her job and there really isn't any way you can denigrate the way she does her job without it being personal, especially since he's not her boss. Your employer can say that you're shit at your job without it being personal, but not your co-worker.

Yes, Hooky is doing himself no favours by being so personally disrespectful to Gillian. He seems to be bitter that Gillian was just brought in (in his opinion) to help legally take away Hooky's say in New Order Inc. corporation, so Bernard could profit from using the New Order name. I suppose Hooky thinks Gillian should have stayed out of the argument between him and Bernard. Gillian and Steve are allowed to do what they like. While I'm sure Steve and Bernard are mad that Hooky has been profiting from exploiting Joy Division, so they consider it fair play. A lot of bitterness and hatred here, for years from both Hooky and Bernard. Just hope that Hooky doesn't try to actually use the band name Joy Division himself just to get revenge.

You only have to watch the neworderstory to see how the relationship between Hooky and Bernard had broken down by the early nineties, if not before.

Hooky frequently looks to camera and interviewers/producers when Bernard is talking (often hijacking the conversation) as if to say 'here we go again'. Check the interviews around the table at the Montreaux Jazz Festival. In one particular soundbite Bernard tells Hooky to 'shut up'.

They hate each other big time. Clash of personalities, clash of interests, clash of aspirations for the future.

As for Gillian, I think Hooky is telling it like it was/is, but I don't think he has set out to be personal for personals sake.

How anyone can sit here and defend Hooky after the atrocious, completely sexist shit he had said about Gillian is beyond me.

Hooky quit New Order. If the others member of New Order wish to continue making music together, that is their right, just as it's Hooky's right to go tour JD albums with his mates.

Simple as that really. If Hooky still wanted to be in New Order, he should have spoken with the diplomatically and worked out their issues together.

It's a funny thing...Hooky seems to think Bernard is a tyrant, but everyone else seems to get along and enjoy playing with him just fine.

Regardless, there is nothing to defend the shit he is saying about Gillian. She left New Order because one of her children was sick and she was diagnosed with breast cancer. I highly doubt that was the musical high point of Bernard's creative life, as Hooky stated.

The Paradise Man wrote: Hooky frequently looks to camera and interviewers/producers when Bernard is talking (often hijacking the conversation) as if to say 'here we go again'.

Yeah, I noticed this too. Also "I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one, Steve."

On another note, I think it would serve Hooky well to remember that Gillian's joining New Order was, um, ROB GRETTON's idea.

Housey wrote:

The Paradise Man wrote: Hooky frequently looks to camera and interviewers/producers when Bernard is talking (often hijacking the conversation) as if to say 'here we go again'.

Yeah, I noticed this too. Also "I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one, Steve."

On another note, I think it would serve Hooky well to remember that Gillian's joining New Order was, um, ROB GRETTON's idea.

Loved the bit where Bernard chokes on his wine and says "to be fair to us, to be fair to us...'

There was a lot of tension in the room in the 'In Conversation' interview featured on the 316 DVD. Noticed Steve and Gillian looking uncomfortable too. To be fair to Bernard he is the leader of the band just by being the lead singer.