I'm new

Hello, I'm a new member just thought I would say hello, I love new order and get pissed off because none of my mates have any musical taste! it was my older brother who got me into them

Welcome to the asylum, Dan - nice to meet you. I was influenced by my brother to get into NO/JD too (at the princely age of 8, no less) and it does stick with you. At any rate, make yourself at home here CTB

To keep this family thing going, it was my older cousin who force fed me New Order as a 6 year old youngster !!

Welcome!

One good thing about NO fans is we dont give a toss what anyone else thinks about 'em!!

Widely acknowleged as one of the most important bands of the late 20'th century yet to this day never really embracing 'mainstream' success like so many other bands have done.

Hope you enjoy yer stay! 'keep the faith' (Barney - Star Test,C4)

Welcome! On the family thing, can't say I was influenced by any relative of mine... but I influenced two of my cousins and lots of friends, ex-girlfriends, you name it!

Goldfish?

Cats?

Humpty, regarding cats jumpin'. I reckon they can jump like long jumpers. They do whilst hunting. They may not jump at 45 degree angles but forwards is in their reportoire.

I've given this some thought.

In order for a cat to maintain balance it must retain steadiness of the eye. Imagine if an earthquake where to hurtle down your street as you were sat nestled on the toilet. As you rise to counter the shaking crapper you ultimately loose balance and on some films would drop down the fresh crevasse given way by the earth splitting through adjustments of various plates and that.

If a cat were to leaps at an angle (we'll keep the long jumper as an analogy as a good example is yet to be found) its eyes could not cope with the rapid adjustment, (reasons can be obtained in various tombs) - it's not that a cat could not perform the adjustment and thus the leap of faith (i.e. it's capacity as an active and able quadruped), but that the cat has evolved not needing this facility ... it's genes decided a long time ago that it did not require this function in order to survive. Based, I assume, on its attack and defence mechanisms.

A cat can leap directly upwards and never sideways ... this is not a discussion, it is a matter of fact.

I know it's difficult to take and I know these revelations will shock some people (helpline currently being developed for counselling) but it is the case. When I first read this I had to re-examine my entire life ... to the extent I threw at least 3 pairs of old underpants away as if they meant nothing to me.

On the same theme, a humming birds eyes are permanently adjusting themselves and scientific theory has it that if the bird was to experience an earthquake (if it was wandering around the lawn searching for scraps of bread and buttered scones i.e. on the ground) it would not be aware that an earthquake was taking place because it's eyes adjust so quickly it is able to re-position itself to tiny movements in the ground (or large movements) ... in other words, it is oblivious to the shakes that are, literally, over him or her.

I can only suggest to deal with it.

So when cats leap forward as in jumping onto for instance a small vole, they actually don't? Or do my eyes re-adjust themselves to make it look like they did? Perhaps they revolve inwards to draw on my memory bank of watching Tom and Jerry cartoons.

I'll give this some more thought whilst I get over the shock of falling down a crevasse without checking my crevice for residual traces, with my trousers still around my ankles.

As I understand it the proposition is that cats can't leap at an angle; that wouldn't bar them from leaping straight ahead.

Just to clarify ... a cat can leap forward toward a small mammal or amphibious craft, but it cannot leap up and forward - like, for instance, how a long jumper would jump en route to a golden medallion.

Example: Fence is situated at the back of a garden. Cat won't leap diagonally up to the fence 'even if the path for its flight is clear', it will walk or run up to the base of the fence then leap upwards at an angle 'almost' ninety degrees. Even if the cat is pursued by a wolfhound or dog.

I will be releasing another amazing fact later today but for now I have to rest.

Originally posted by Patrick As I understand it the proposition is that cats can't leap at an angle; that wouldn't bar them from leaping straight ahead.

Now we are getting somewhere.

Hustler, how many episodes of 'You've Been Framed' did you sit through to figure this out?

Do they have 'You've Been Framed' Statesdide?

It was a book Hank ... its basic premise was to thwart superstition with scientific fact.

Sometimes I watch 'You've Been Flummoxed' but rarely by choice. It stinks.

Originally posted by Huntsman > Originally posted by Patrick> As I understand it the proposition is that cats can't leap at an angle; that wouldn't bar them from leaping straight ahead.>

Now we are getting somewhere.

Note the semi-colon.

I would be keen to hear any of your thoughts on the cat leap situation in the future Hanko. If you have any doubts study the creature. It is an amazing fact.

Feel free to use it in future conversation.

Originally posted by Patrick > Originally posted by Huntsman> > > > Originally posted by Patrick> > As I understand it the proposition is that cats can't leap at an angle; that wouldn't bar them from leaping straight ahead.> > >

Now we are getting somewhere.

Note the semi-colon.

Yes, and also the 'leap/bar' metaphor.

Excellent work.

Tell me, is the semi-colon a separation between the question and the answer followed by the full stop (period) - with the colon being used as a suffix for a list, followed by a full stop?

I mean ... I like them both but I rarely dare to use the semi-colon; it's too tricky to understand.

There must be a small degree of upward elevation in the angle of take off though. If only just to avoid a jump that turned into a multiple forward roll scenario.

What would happen, if as an experiment you put a cat on as island surround by a three foot moat with a three foot wall encircling the moat; Besides it meowing a lot?*

I think I gleaned from these here** pages cats only meow at humans. So for arguments sake, it's a desert island.

*edited in attempt to introduce a semi colon. ** hear became here.

Originally posted by Huntsman > Originally posted by Patrick> > > > Originally posted by Huntsman> > > > > > > Originally posted by Patrick> > > As I understand it the proposition is that cats can't leap at an angle; that wouldn't bar them from leaping straight ahead.> > > > > >

Now we are getting somewhere.

Note the semi-colon.

Yes, and also the 'leap/bar' metaphor.

Excellent work.

Tell me, is the semi-colon a separation between the question and the answer followed by the full stop (period) - with the colon being used as a suffix for a list, followed by a full stop?

I mean ... I like them both but I rarely dare to use the semi-colon; it's too tricky to understand.

Your definition of the proper use for a colon I believe to be correct.

The semi-colon is much more intuitive; it's sort of I know it when I see it. When a period feels too strong.

You might say that what comes after explains what comes before; it's not as tricky as you claim.

A classic example of a 'hijacked' thread....!

bring out the on topic police ;)

An excellent poseur Hank.

I'm going to use a monkey as an example for this dilemma.

If you visit a park which has monkeys or baboons roaming free like chickens in a coop, you will notice one very very interesting thing ... the marsupials are surrounded by water - and not restrictive gates. Now you'd think the monkeys would gather pace and leap to relative freedom but no, the monkey is so scared of water (again down to evolution and gene patterns) it will not, ever, go anywhere near the water and risk a soaking - to them, a soaking equates to death.

The cat, on the other hand, can swim ... so again would not need to leap.

Originally posted by Patrick You might say that what comes after explains what comes before; it's not as tricky as you claim.

Mmmm ... now I did mention an answer to a question.

I think I've grasped it.

Originally posted by Inta-Don A classic example of a 'hijacked' thread....!bring out the on topic police ;)

Don - everything is relative.

Originally posted by Huntsman An excellent poseur Hank.I'm going to use a monkey as an example for this dilemma.If you visit a park which has monkeys or baboons roaming free like chickens in a coop, you will notice one very very interesting thing ... the marsupials are surrounded by water - and not restrictive gates. Now you'd think the monkeys would gather pace and leap to relative freedom but no, the monkey is so scared of water (again down to evolution and gene patterns) it will not, ever, go anywhere near the water and risk a soaking - to them, a soaking equates to death.The cat, on the other hand, can swim ... so again would not need to leap.

Monkeys can jump at 45 degrees though right? If it helps we could revert back to cats and imagine he was going on a date and despite having the ability to swim, didnt want to get his coat wet.

Originally posted by Huntsman An excellent poseur Hank.I'm going to use a monkey as an example for this dilemma.If you visit a park which has monkeys or baboons roaming free like chickens in a coop, you will notice one very very interesting thing ... the marsupials are surrounded by water - and not restrictive gates. Now you'd think the monkeys would gather pace and leap to relative freedom but no, the monkey is so scared of water (again down to evolution and gene patterns) it will not, ever, go anywhere near the water and risk a soaking - to them, a soaking equates to death.The cat, on the other hand, can swim ... so again would not need to leap.

But can a cat leap from a swimming position, so as to get over that three foot wall?

Notwithstanding the fact that the posts have drifted considerably from Dan introducing himself, I'd like to take a chance to point a few things out here from my point of view as a scientist:

1. Cats can probably jump at any angle they wish, they are just arrogant animals which choose not to demonstrate this. I suggest that Felines are generally considered key predators, and as such rarely have use for 'defence'. How many docos have you seen of Lions leaping on the back of a hapless Wildebeeste? Is this not at roughly 45' from the ground?

2. There is no such thing as a "scientific fact". The word fact is avoided at all costs by scientists, as it implies that everything to be known is explainable. Science attempts to understand the world, not dictate terms.

3. Earthquakes, as a form of motion, are percieved by higher vertebrates not only by vision, but by movement. Movement and balance are percieved largely in the inner ear. Also, Hummingbirds are never found on or even near the ground. Unless, of course, they are dead. This puts the slippers into your theory somewhat, Huntsy, however it was eloquently stated.

Sorry to get all geeky on your arse, but I felt it necessary to point these out. CTB

I chose not to point out that humming birds are rarely seen on the ground as it spoilt my amateur scientific examplel.

As a full-on rumble has occurred can I know close the class as I've forgotten most of the best facts (science suggestions) in the book.

Just one last thing, cats can swim but they are conscious of damaging expensive overcoats ... the decision to trash the jacket in search of a better world would depend on the cat. More gregarious cats may chose to 'go for it', whereas milder mannered fellas might decide to stay put and eat greens.

And I cannot see a cat leaping from the sea to land at 45 degrees ... even if I have seen documentaries suggesting otherwise and starring some of the world's best lions.

Originally posted by Huntsman I chose not to point out that humming birds are rarely seen on the ground as it spoilt my amateur scientific examplel.As a full-on rumble has occurred can I know close the class as I've forgotten most of the best facts (science suggestions) in the book.Just one last thing, cats can swim but they are conscious of damaging expensive overcoats ... the decision to trash the jacket in search of a better world would depend on the cat. More gregarious cats may chose to 'go for it', whereas milder mannered fellas might decide to stay put and eat greens.And I cannot see a cat leaping from the sea to land at 45 degrees ... even if I have seen documentaries suggesting otherwise and starring some of the world's best lions.

After posing my last question I realized the cat wouldn't need to leap while swimming; it would just climb up the wall from the water.

Originally posted by CTB Notwithstanding the fact that the posts have drifted considerably from Dan introducing himself, I'd like to take a chance to point a few things out here from my point of view as a scientist:1. Cats can probably jump at any angle they wish, they are just arrogant animals which choose not to demonstrate this. I suggest that Felines are generally considered key predators, and as such rarely have use for 'defence'. How many docos have you seen of Lions leaping on the back of a hapless Wildebeeste? Is this not at roughly 45' from the ground? 2. There is no such thing as a "scientific fact". The word fact is avoided at all costs by scientists, as it implies that everything to be known is explainable. Science attempts to understand the world, not dictate terms.3. Earthquakes, as a form of motion, are percieved by higher vertebrates not only by vision, but by movement. Movement and balance are percieved largely in the inner ear. Also, Hummingbirds are never found on or even near the ground. Unless, of course, they are dead. This puts the slippers into your theory somewhat, Huntsy, however it was eloquently stated.Sorry to get all geeky on your arse, but I felt it necessary to point these out.CTB

Yes that's exactly what I was thinking.

Isn't it right that humming birds are unable to undertake a take off manouvre from a flat surface unlike the Hawker Harrier jumpjet featuring it's VTAOL facility?

For further information:

'Why (most) Cats chose not to leap like how a Long Jumper usually does' by Terry Nutkins ISBN No. 865394 11 First published 1974 - re-printed late '78 due to popular demand (from the animal kingdom)

Huntsy - I meant in no way to discourage your interesting interpretation of feline behaviour. I personally find them reprohensible animals, and as such take pride in saying I have bugger all knowledge of them. The thought of seeing them "go for it" while swimming amused me so much it has prompted me to hose down the LadyBear's cat in the name of research. Neither LadyBear nor cat are impressed with the results of this study - this phenomena is termed the 'Hiesenberg Principle'. CTB

It will take more than a genuine scientist with a theory about the Hindenberg from dissuading me to preach my patented theory of non-sideways cat leaping in the future. Admittedly, your notes did have a certain charm but I do suggest you read up a little more before any further outbursts. The book by Nutkins is an excellent start and if you have access to the internet you might like to order 'Fieldmice ... why?' by Onion Montgomery.

pesky cats make me sneeze :(

quarantine this discussion!! chuck em in room 101 ;)

Suitably chastised, I will indeed pursue the works of Dr. Nutkin with keen interest. As for the quandry regarding Fieldmice, I too am at a loss. Frankly, I was stumped with the Dormouse, but it appears rodents are nothing if not useful in drawing attention to their utterly pointless existence. CTB

Any theories on why Terry Nutkins lives in relative seclusion in castle near a Loch?

A castle near a loch? ... could you describe a more beautiful location?

Mr. Nutkins is indeed a very intelligent person. Perhaps he shunts the limelight in favour of a more relaxed environment, full of the wildlife he understands.

Originally posted by Huntsman A castle near a loch? ... could you describe a more beautiful location?

The Amalfi coast of Italy with stunning cliff top residences and palatial villas set on islands. Imagine the soppy bits of Episode II Attack of the colonials.

He's earned it.

ok, you've lost me now gents

Terry Nutkins helped Johnny Morris host a show about animals which ran for years and years. Johnny was an older gentleman and Terry the young apprentice. Each show would cover certain topics about featured animals, tigers, elephants, ostriches etc. - and both Morris and Nutkins had a special understanding with the animals ... it appeared that they could talk with them. Johnny could also do impressions of many animals and was often seen talking like how an elephant would if it were a human.

The show was called 'Animal Magic' and was beautiful. The two fellas were the nicest and most amiable blokes you could ever have the pleasure of watching on the tele. It was a shame the show ended.

Terry Nutkins and Johnny Morris herald an affectionate part of tv history to many people.

I'm personally very happy that Mr. Nutkins now lives in such a beautiful location.

Didnt Zoe Balls old man do something similar??? or did he play with inanimate objects?

Originally posted by Inta-Don Didnt Zoe Balls old man do something similar??? or did he play with inanimate objects?

Think of a Number?

Originally posted by Huntsman > Originally posted by Inta-Don> Didnt Zoe Balls old man do something similar??? or did he play with inanimate objects?

Think of a Number?

any number?

Originally posted by Huntsman Terry Nutkins helped Johnny Morris host a show about animals which ran for years and years. Johnny was an older gentleman and Terry the young apprentice. Each show would cover certain topics about featured animals, tigers, elephants, ostriches etc. - and both Morris and Nutkins had a special understanding with the animals ... it appeared that they could talk with them. Johnny could also do impressions of many animals and was often seen talking like how an elephant would if it were a human.The show was called 'Animal Magic' and was beautiful. The two fellas were the nicest and most amiable blokes you could ever have the pleasure of watching on the tele. It was a shame the show ended.Terry Nutkins and Johnny Morris herald an affectionate part of tv history to many people.I'm personally very happy that Mr. Nutkins now lives in such a beautiful location.

Pesonally I suspect Nutkins is leaning towards the dark side.

Originally posted by dan bailey Hello, I'm a new member just thought I would say hello,I love new order and get pissed off because none of my mates have any musical taste! it was my older brother who got me into them

Welcome Dan, have fun in these here parts. Don't be afraid to join in with the craic, but above all beware of pre-menstrual Bawbags! They tend to spoil the fun.

Originally posted by General Muffy (NOOL Militant Wing) > Originally posted by dan bailey> Hello, I'm a new member just thought I would say hello,> I love new order and get pissed off because none of my mates have any musical taste! it was my older brother who got me into them

Welcome Dan, have fun in these here parts. Don't be afraid to join in with the craic, but above all beware of pre-menstrual Bawbags! They tend to spoil the fun.

cheers...and I'll be joining in for sure

Originally posted by General Muffy (NOOL Militant Wing) > Originally posted by dan bailey> Hello, I'm a new member just thought I would say hello,> I love new order and get pissed off because none of my mates have any musical taste! it was my older brother who got me into them

Welcome Dan, have fun in these here parts. Don't be afraid to join in with the craic, but above all beware of pre-menstrual Bawbags! They tend to spoil the fun.

Well DAN ...ROCKET MICK says and i hope you like cats. HUNTSMAN you are indeed a GENIUS and only MUFFY knows more about PUSSIES than you.:D:D:D:D

What was the topic again....?

but did you know that terry nutkins' real name was terry stamp. he had to change it because of equity rules as there was already terrance stamp so he named himself after his favourite squirrel based book.

... it just gets better and better ...

Speaking of T. Stamp, someone informed me recently that before the Matrix and Lord Of, Elrond was in Priscilla.

Originally posted by hibster but did you know that terry nutkins' real name was terry stamp.he had to change it because of equity rules as there was already terrance stamp so he named himself after his favourite squirrel based book.

It looks like a covert measure to keep his dark side hidden. If you can't see the parralel's with well known devil worshipper Alister(Hammy Hamster)Crowley......

You cannot associate Nutkins with the dark side, he is clearly a rebel leader, almost as good as Admiral Ackbar.

Terence the Stamp will never, not ever, beat his most momentous and vitally important movie star role where he commanded Superman to:

'Kneel Before Zod'

So how do you explain this mysterious thread of the devil and Animal programmes? Johny (speaks in tongues) Morrisey Terry (lives in a castle nr a Loch and changes his sinister surname) Nutkins Michala Strachan (has the same surname as former red devil Gordon who's got the devils seed & ginger hair) Johnny & Zoe Ball's presence cannot be a conicidence eithier. Think of a number? 666 by any chance? Let's not forget former LFC fan Zoe's one of the highest profile people to defect to the dark side.

An interesting statistic involves God and the Devil. Go(o)d and (d)Evil.

You may think scientists (CTB for instance) would have now closed the book on the existance of god and the devil. Not so, latest thinking on the subject is fairly surprising. I'm not certain of the exact figure but a high percentage of supposed great minds (scientists, great thinkers, theologians, pioneers of flavoured snacks etc.) are now in semi-agreement (80-90%) that the chances are 'yes' it is likely that their is a) a creator and b) a destroyer.

The implications, I'm sure you'd agree, are stupefying.

It is with this average nugget of hearsay that you can ascertain whether or not your theory of names and devils is concurrent.

there is a johnny ball lane in bristol.

not that that proves or disproves that there is a god, I was just saying, you know, there is one.

Suzi Quatro sang about a 'Devil Gate Drive' - is this near Johnny Ball Street?

Isn't it down in Dixie?

Originally posted by Huntsman Suzi Quatro sang about a 'Devil Gate Drive' - is this near Johnny Ball Street?

Call Taste Police! There's someone here talking about Suzi Quatro! And pretending to know her "songs", too!

Originally posted by Huntsman Suzi Quatro sang about a 'Devil Gate Drive' - is this near Johnny Ball Street?

no, but zed alley is. who's zed? zed's dead baby, zed's dead

Originally posted by Huntsman An interesting statistic involves God and the Devil. Go(o)d and (d)Evil.You may think scientists (CTB for instance) would have now closed the book on the existance of god and the devil. Not so, latest thinking on the subject is fairly surprising. I'm not certain of the exact figure but a high percentage of supposed great minds (scientists, great thinkers, theologians, pioneers of flavoured snacks etc.) are now in semi-agreement (80-90%) that the chances are 'yes' it is likely that their is a) a creator and b) a destroyer.The implications, I'm sure you'd agree, are stupefying.It is with this average nugget of hearsay that you can ascertain whether or not your theory of names and devils is concurrent.

I think it takes more faith to not believe in God than it does to believe in Him.

Originally posted by Subject To Conditions > Originally posted by dan bailey> Hello, I'm a new member just thought I would say hello,> I love new order and get pissed off because none of my mates have any musical taste! it was my older brother who got me into them

Well hello to you as well sir...

and don't feel alone, none of my friends have much in the way of musical taste either...

ain't that the truth. know exactly ho wyou feel there.