LWTUA on Permanent: Joy Division 1995

The version of "LWTUA" on "Permanent" was originally released as the 7" version with the tombstone looking cover. Then it was released later as the b-side on the 12" (the black version with the angel statue) when the group rerecorded it.

Originally posted by Low-Life The version of "LWTUA" on "Permanent" was originally released as the 7" version with the tombstone looking cover. Then it was released later as the b-side on the 12" (the black version with the angel statue) when the group rerecorded it.

Sorry mate, but that's not correct. The "Pennine" version of LWTUA was recorded before the single version, and the sleeve notes to Heart and Soul actually refer to the "Pennine" version as "Love Will Tear Us Apart version 1".

Both the 7" and 12" A sides only ever had the single version (which was recorded a few days later at Strawberry Studios). The "Pennine" version was on the B side of both 7" and 12" after These Days, but I believe it was uncredited on the 7". In fact, doesn't the B side of the 7" play at 33rpm?

'Don't Disillusion Me' Old Blue. surely you know the answer without checking...

More specifically, which version 'exactly' is the genuine version? and why was this not included on Permanent?

Can anyone verify whether 'seating' is any good for the Manchester (Evening News?) Arena? - pal of mine is heading that way subject to on-site referrals.

Actually on the LWTUA lines can someone outline the exact history - it's something that's also been bugging me for years as the subtle differences make identifying version to version very tricky and quite frankly, this just won't do.

I think the "Pennine" version was included on Permanent because they'd put the single version on Substance? Just my theory.

The "Pennine" LWTUA starts with a guitar strum from the Vox Teardrop that's been mentioned elsewhere, and generally has a lighter and more upbeat feel to the single version. I'm sure there is a more eloquent way of describing the difference, if someone wants to help me out.

As I said, the two versions were recorded within days of each other, but I don't know what prompted them to choose which would be the single.

Originally posted by OnlyOneKenObe©
'Don't Disillusion Me' Old Blue. surely you know the answer without checking...

Uh-oh...busted again.

Sorry Blue, just to clarify. The Permanent version is the 'Pennine' mix recorded around the same time as the original single release? ... sounds to me like the Permanent version is a new mix - the drums seem re-mastered, even re-done. Anyone observe that Permanent is wrongly labelled just to add further confused beats.

12" mix the same as the 7" original?

Chance to immediately redeem yourself here Blue.

Any answer to my Manc. question above? (please)

I'm getting confused now!

Yes, the LWTUA on Permanent (track 1, that is) is the so-called "Pennine" version. I've not noticed much difference in the drums to be honest , Huntsy. This version is on the B-side of both vinyl formats. The "Permanent" mix an after-market remix.

The "single version" is indeed the same on both 7 and 12.

The Permanent mix is indeed a new one, done by Don Gehman, he of REM fame.

Blue, as George mentions, it does also sound very new to me as well. You may need to adjust your knowledge base slightly, taking into account Permanent is indeed a new mix thus could not be on the B-side of any original JD release.

Please, let us clarify this situation:

JD LWTUA 7" and 12" JD Substance (original release) JD Permanent new mix (new drums, new backing - possibly Peter Hook new vocal on chorus, introduction of more prominent synth line after chorus)

If the above is correct, then what, pray tell, is on the B-side of the original 7 and 12" releases? ... and I'm about to drop the bomb ... 'She's Lost Control', identify the variations. One is definitely more 'beaty' with a masterful 'dunk' as the snare, the other has guitars higher in the mix thus the drums less evident. Snares sound slightly different on two mixes (at least).

... also, that the 'Permanent' CD is mis-labelled with the new mix and the original mix switched.

Originally posted by Huntsman Blue, as George mentions, it does also sound very new to me as well. You may need to adjust your knowledge base slightly, taking into account Permanent is indeed a new mix thus could not be on the B-side of any original JD release.Please, let us clarify this situation:JD LWTUA 7" and 12"JD Substance (original release)JD Permanent new mix (new drums, new backing - possibly Peter Hook new vocal on chorus, introduction of more prominent synth line after chorus)If the above is correct, then what, pray tell, is on the B-side of the original 7 and 12" releases? ... and I'm about to drop the bomb ... 'She's Lost Control', identify the variations. One is definitely more 'beaty' with a masterful 'dunk' as the snare, the other has guitars higher in the mix thus the drums less evident. Snares sound slightly different on two mixes (at least).

err, you're losing me. I'm probably not being clear, but yes, the "Permanent" mix is new, I wasn't saying that was the B-side! It's the other version on that CD I was talking about.

I'm off for a lie down.

The b-side of the 7", The 'Pennine' version, is the first recorded version. It was later re-recorded as the version we all know and love. The Pennine version is faster and less produced, more akin to the live takes and the Peel session version. In fact, the studio version we all know is actually the oddity as it's differnet from the way the usually played it.

The re-mix is a stupid piece of crap that was done in the 90's.

Originally posted by Agentwood > Originally posted by David Ngo> > > > Originally posted by Jason > > Who's Ian Curtis?>

Or maybe Jason wasn't spamming. I'll just take this as a sign that threads about Joy Division aren't welcome here. After all, this a New Order thread, why was i so stupid as to even think about here? Man, you people really piss me off. You ppl are in your 20/30/40s and i hope never become like you. Actually I'm gonna kill myself when i reach 19 years of age to make sure that never happens. My life is already way worse than Ian Curtis's. I haven't had any friends in about 5 years friends, i can't connect with people, i am doing bad in school, etc. Even why i post here i am rejected yet again. The very first reply to this thread is mocking me. You'll never hear from me again assholes. bye bye.

man, i go away for one day and look at what happens! hope this guy is still alive and hasn't watched any werner herzog films/listened to iggy pop lately...and can take a little sarcasm (and friendly mocking). :D

if you're still around jason, you're welcome here, mate! just chill out a bit. we talk about JD all the time!

I haven't been online since Friday, so by now I don't really even care about the whole issue anymore. I was being sarcastic when I said 'who's Ian Curtis'. I don't need to be told to learn how to take sarcasm. Thank you anyhow.

Shit! You were talking about the other guy not being able to take sarcasm! My mistake.

I'm not going to post anymore until I wake up a little.

Jase - either way the original fella took you all wrong, his following posts about being depressed declared he had a few personal problems. This may have led him to find your initial retort personally offensive.

Everyone else, on the other hand, can spot a gag from 50 miles.

So keep it up.

Damn i missed all the fun. This thread had it all - an idiot, mass confusion and someone who has no friends. Brilliant.

Originally posted by Old Blue > Originally posted by Low-Life> The version of "LWTUA" on "Permanent" was originally released as the 7" version with the tombstone looking cover. Then it was released later as the b-side on the 12" (the black version with the angel statue) when the group rerecorded it.

Sorry mate, but that's not correct. The "Pennine" version of LWTUA was recorded before the single version, and the sleeve notes to Heart and Soul actually refer to the "Pennine" version as "Love Will Tear Us Apart version 1".

Both the 7" and 12" A sides only ever had the single version (which was recorded a few days later at Strawberry Studios). The "Pennine" version was on the B side of both 7" and 12" after These Days, but I believe it was uncredited on the 7". In fact, doesn't the B side of the 7" play at 33rpm?

Yes 33 rpm it is!:D

Originally posted by Jason Shit! You were talking about the other guy not being able to take sarcasm! My mistake.I'm not going to post anymore until I wake up a little.

oops, i meant to say david, not you jason. oh, well, you understood what i meant anyway...no harm done, then! on with the 'permanent' discussion....

the first time i heard the pennine version i didn't like it as much because i was so used to the other version. then i got it on a CD mix and started listening to it all the time. now i appreciate both of them, but i'm still definitely partial to the single!

I haven't really said much about the actual topic, so here goes.

I've always liked Track 16 better than the Track 1 on Permanent, except I do like the keyboard line coming thru a little more on Track 1. There's a counter-melody that you can hear on Track 1 that doesn't stand out as much on Track 16. But, all in all, track 16 sounds much less muddy, and I do like clarity in my music.

Originally posted by Jason I haven't really said much about the actual topic, so here goes. I've always liked Track 16 better than the Track 1 on Permanent, except I do like the keyboard line coming thru a little more on Track 1. There's a counter-melody that you can hear on Track 1 that doesn't stand out as much on Track 16. But, all in all, track 16 sounds much less muddy, and I do like clarity in my music.

I also like the Track 16 version of LWTUA on Perm better. I always liked the fact that it sounds kinda like Ian is still playing the guitar during the singing part, instead of gripping the microphone (of course that's probably just Hooky double-tracked or something, as it is a remix, but oh well)

yes and can anyone explain why the vinyl version of substance has a longer version of shes lost contol extended than the cd copy??