After resisting JD all these years (based in large part on an intense aversion to Ian Curtis's voice) I find I have finally developed an appreciation for at least some of the material, namely tracks 2 through 5 on Permanent. Inspired to relisten by the recent discussion of different versions of LWTUA (which I still don't like).
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Confession: belated appreciation for JD
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This is an archived legacy thread. Replies are closed, but the discussion is preserved.
I am ashamed to say....I once used to laugh at Ian Curtis' singing. I know I will be abolished to the netherworld upon my death where my punishment will be to listen to Ethel Murman do covers of JD songs.....
anyways, it took a little while for me to get used to his voice too. But thats just it, he has a voice, hes not a singer in the true sense.
I encourage you to dig deep and get every JD cd you can find. I am not sure who I love more myself, JD or NO...
ian curtis doesn't have a 'good' voice. it's not beautiful or 'pleasant'. however, bob dylan's voice is pretty horrendous, as well. what they both have in common though, is that their voices have expression. you can sense sarcasm, anger and joy in their voices--something that traditionally 'beautiful' voices sometimes can't achieve. 
hope you keep on listening patrick! 
Well, so far what I have liked is still not his voice but other things; so far it is liking things in spite of his voice. But I will persist.
yeah, i have to admit it took me a while to get used to his voice. the first time i heard it i was like, 'what the...'.
Originally posted by Agentwood yeah, i have to admit it took me a while to get used to his voice. the first time i heard it i was like, 'what the...'.
Well all you NOOL..has there EVER been a better song than NOVELTY...............................NOABSOLUTELTYNOT(sic)
His voice probably has the same effect on most people when they first hear it... like "who is the heck did he learn to sing from", but if you listen deeper to everything happening at once, it all starts to make sense. Everything they did kind of molded into one sound, and that is why people who listen to them for a while start to love them. I know I did.
I must admit, when my cousin first introduced me to Joy Division in 1978 (I was 11!) I HATED the vocals, but loved the music. In a space of around six months, the vocals seemed to blend in with the music and I couldn't imagine one without the other.
Then I started listening to the actual lyrics and understood more what all the 'hype' was about. I still maintain that Ian was an arsehole, talented, but still an arsehole. But then again, some of the greatest poets of all time have screwed over everyone that cared about them;
Shane McGowan, Brendan Behan, Christopher Marlowe, Samuel Beckett, etc.
'Flawed genius' perhaps, but then often the genius is inspired by the flaws. erm... discuss 
Originally posted by Chris Nash I must admit, when my cousin first introduced me to Joy Division in 1978 (I was 11!) I HATED the vocals, but loved the music. In a space of around six months, the vocals seemed to blend in with the music and I couldn't imagine one without the other.
that's how i feel about joy division. i'm not a big fan of ian's voice either, and some joy division songs do get on my nerves...mainly novelty and something must break. but what really drew me into joy division was the instrumentation. the drums, barney's guitar playing and the special keyboard effects they add to their songs is why i love joy division. ian's voice is bearable...but at the same time, it's very important in JD songs cuz of the intensity it brings. i listen to the new order renditions of joy division songs, and sometimes i think there's something missing cuz ian's not singing. but still it's weird, cuz i listen to new order for the vocals, and joy division for the instrumentation.
The first JD song I ever heard was "Love Will Tear us Apart", perhaps I'm in the minority but the first thing that really caught my attention was Ian's voice believe it or not. I didn't think it was a great voice but there was something there that grabbed me. Hard feeling to explain. Then I went out and bought all the albums and never looked back.
Interesting replies to Ian's vocals. He might not be the greatest vocalist ever, but in the post-punk era at the time, there were vocalists like Mark Stewart of the Pop Group, Nick Cave of the Birthday Party, Mark E. Smith of the Fall, etc, so in that context, to me I never really considered it much of an issue. First heard JD on the Transmission single,
Yeah, if you put JD into context i.e. a punk band, then the vocals are fairly normal. Certainly they never seemed to me in any way unusual compared to Wire, PIL, The Cure, etc.
Hmmmm, interesting. I first heard Joy Division in early 79, and was inspired by the music - I hardly noticed the vocal style as being anything significant. Saw them play in 1980 and was struck by the fact that he couldn't actually sing - struggled on all the songs to be honest. I subsequently found out that his natural voice was the strangulated sound (taste police stay away) evident on the Warsaw stuff, and that it was the use of varispeed and a harmoniser that gave him the resonance.
Throughout my JD awareness, it has always been the music (Barney is one hell of a songwriter) rather than the vocals or the often pretentious lyrics that have held my attention. I do subscribe to Chris's theory that IC was an arsehole at times - far more so than I take that Franck Essner's sycophantic bilge about Curtis being a superior being.
... wait until night has appeared and outside even the crows have fallen silent. Prepare only the finest filter coffee, take position in the comfiest armchair money can purchase (it's in the back room Pat) ... relax as the cans close around your ears halting the outside world ... then when sip 1 was almost upon you, press play.
Let 'Closer' take you to another dimension.
I haven't yet succumbed to Closer, H, but I am growing increasingly enthusiastic about the material on Permanent, which I have been listening to every day recently (after dark, in my most comfortable chair), to the exclusion of anything else.
... you know it's the only way to appreciate the atmosphere of the music.
P, like many others, I too resisted JD for a good while until they crept under my skin when I was looking the other way towards pop world. Outstanding on every level, beautiful, intense music with quite remarkably unique lyrics sung and played without mercy (TDC anyone?). Some outstanding production enhances the feeling.
Closer - without doubt a most intense piece of popular music, as technically brilliant as any classical piece. Utterly depressing from beginning to end.
Permanent skims the surface (the LWTUA re-mix an insult capped by the wrong track listing stating the original as the re-mix). Both Closer and Unknown Pressures hit the spot. Decades, sends shivers every time. I'm not sure NO hit the same intensity? ... even though I love both bands equally.
I'm extremely excited about your change of heart (and soul) towards JD ... I always knew you had it in you.
10 points to you team.
Well, yes, H, I'm excited too, having all this "new" stuff to listen to and savor. Bear with me for using Permanent as a way in; tracks 2 to 5 I reiterate are, I find, very easy to like. I did listen to Decades once in the last few days, and it sounded quite promising. Unfortunately Permanent and Closer are the only things I have copies of; I guess a shopping trip is in order.
Patsy, it took me a while to get intae JD as well, I lent UP from my Uncly John several times before I really started to get touched by the vocals, the music was great from the start.
I remember hearing John play LWTUA and Transmission and thinking they were fuckin great, but I never realised it was JD (please remember I was only 13 )
Mick's a big Novelty fan, but another lost great is Something Must Break
was listening to the Radio 1 sessions CD last night, and SMB just jumps out at ye.....great track!
As fer Closer....it's a definite must. The Eternal is in my top 3 JD tracks.
Shuttle Cricket, can we concoct a quick must-listen to JD compendium for the man Pats before the weekend is upon us. It looks like he's got twitchy feet, wanting to spend a bit of brass at his local 5 and dime.
- Decades
- Shadowplay
- Transmission
- A means to an end
- Colony
- She's Lost Control
- Atmosphere
- LWTUA
Thanks for the encouragement, Shugsy.
Actually, H, I think there's a lot of overlap between your list and my list. Items 2,3, and 6 on your list make up 3/4 of tracks 2 to 5 on Permanent. I believe the only item on your list I haven't listened to is Colony.
Originally posted by Huntsman Shuttle Cricket, can we concoct a quick must-listen to JD compendium for the man Pats before the weekend is upon us. It looks like he's got twitchy feet, wanting to spend a bit of brass at his local 5 and dime.1) Decades2) Shadowplay3) Transmission4) A means to an end5) Colony6) She's Lost Control7) Atmosphere8) LWTUA
I'll add New Dawn Fades, Glass, Atrocity Exhibition, Insight, 24 Hours, Eternal and Something Must Break.....can't remember which of the above is on Permanent....so get shopping fer the lot Patsy:D
Originally posted by ShugZV©
> Originally posted by Huntsman> Shuttle Cricket, can we concoct a quick must-listen to JD compendium for the man Pats before the weekend is upon us. It looks like he's got twitchy feet, wanting to spend a bit of brass at his local 5 and dime.> > 1) Decades> 2) Shadowplay> 3) Transmission> 4) A means to an end> 5) Colony> 6) She's Lost Control> 7) Atmosphere> 8) LWTUA> >
I'll add New Dawn Fades, Glass, Atrocity Exhibition, Insight, 24 Hours, Eternal and Something Must Break.....can't remember which of the above is on Permanent....so get shopping fer the lot Patsy:D
Well, since the sniper has been caught, shopping is once again an option!
These days Isolation Heart and Soul Disorder Insight No Love Lost Digital Autosuggestion Novelty From safety to where
Amen to that cat face.
P - you see, your half way there with your magical overlap capabilities. The wolf-hound Shugz ZX 81 speaks much sense even here. Get yourself the aformentioned items and you'll be so deep by the time your Sunday lunch arrives you'll regret not wearing wellies at the dinner table.
Pastie - I thought your shopping involved only tapping some keys and wishing for magical times? ... I never pictured you diving out of your Bentley en route to Figgits Master Warehouse for a pound of carrots and a loaf of brown.
It's true, H, that shopping is not my favorite activity, and that ordering CD's by keyboard is what I usually do. But that approach does involve a certain delay.
