Mapping The Definitive Editions - Low-life

Ordered just the TPK 12" limited edition mirrored sleeve and clear vinyl for now. It's only available from the neworder store ? I'll see about the other 12" singles and the box nearer the time.

As regards the "BBC session" , yep as perspex said, is this the Rock Around The Clock thing? I think not TBH. I'm guessing the wording is a little misleading. "alongside a BBC session and three tracks performed at the Hacienda in 1985." looks like a BBC session and the Whistle Test songs but i think they mean the BBC Session is just the Whistle Test tracks. The wording is slightly incorrect, i think. Happy to be proved wrong of course.

Fotz wrote: Oh and cool that the CD will have the tracing paper sleeve. Though i'm a little puzzled that it " will be the first time ever" for the CD to have it. My old Low Life CD has the tracing paper that you slip the x4 cards into , like the cassette box does. Or do they mean the CD will have the fold-in tracing paper sleeve like the vinyl album?

Anyway, it's all looking good and many thanks to Johnny James and all involved.

The Definitive CDs so far have been more or less miniature recreations of the album sleeves. Guess that what this means.

negative1 wrote:

ok, i did notice one thing.

the cover to the subculture single is different.

Hmm. Yeah. Looks like it's got the disc label actually printed on the sleeve.

Additionally, the picture of the sleeve for the standard TPK looks almost blue, rather than silver. Unless it's my display / the website showing a wonky colour.

I've ordered TPK limited edition, just in case that sells out.

I will order the box set and other singles at a later date.

With the PC&L set, I bought from the store as I think it was slightly cheaper to buy it there than Amazon, if you went with the box plus 4x12"s (which I did). However, when my set arrived, it didn't have that nifty 'Obi-style' band around the set that came with the Amazon-shipped variants. I was mildly peeved about that. I even messaged the New Order Store to see if they could send me one of these 'bands' (they couldn't!).

So, I will probably get my purchases from Amazon this time. Just in case they do the same thing (the Movement set didn't have a band, so who knows with this one).

Incidentally, I tried to sign into my NOStore account and couldn't (password invalid). Tried to reset, but the necessary email didn't arrive. Seems weird, as I'm sure my password is correct. Wonder if the Store is having problems.

Anyway, TPK Crystal variant ordered!

Bought everything: box, all 4 12" singles, and both shirts.

I also had trouble signing in. It looks like they've got separate stores for the US and UK based on the URL, so I just set up a new account.

In the linked Classic Pop article above, Saville said he was only ever asked to design a label for Subculture because they were rushing to get it out. Kinda wish they'd done this reissue as a diecut sleeve, but I don't mind having it with a slightly different design.

Wonder if either of The Perfect Kiss singles will come with one of the CYMK color variant inner sleeves?

Hmmm.

As regards the 'Sub-Culture' sleeve, the description says the following:

"Remastered with a 2022 updated sleeve of the original 12” single – Sub-Culture was the second single from 1985’s Low-Life.Peter Saville says of the updated sleeve: "LABEL ONLY was specified in 1985 due to time pressure around the original release and as a consequence, a sleeve design for the re-release has no actual precedent. However, exploring the principle 'the solution is in the problem’ has led to the subliminal evocation of a sleeve that is still LABEL ONLY”.

Well, this is different from what Saville has said in the past. I know we've discussed this at length, but the only time I can remember him mentioning it was an interview with Dave Haslam where he said something along the lines of 'I can only presume I wasn't asked to design one'.

If the above description is true, this does go some way to confirm £50note's theory that the blank sleeve (+labels) actually "is the design".

We have speculated before about time-constraints, and this does appear to have been a factor.

I wonder why Saville has suddenly remembered this. Maybe he has comprehensive notebooks.

Still, it's the best answer we have got so far, and makes a certain amount of sense (much better than the whole rumour about Saville hating the remix etc., which always seemed like bullshit to me).

negative1 wrote:

the cover to the subculture single is different

Peter Saville says of the updated sleeve: "LABEL ONLY was specified in 1985 due to time pressure around the original release and as a consequence, a sleeve design for the re-release has no actual precedent. However, exploring the principle 'the solution is in the problem’ has led to the subliminal evocation of a sleeve that is still LABEL ONLY”.

Haven't been buying these re-released 12 inches so far, as I have all the originals. Perhaps this has been cottoned onto, as the extra Peter Saville info about the silver Perfect Kiss has tempted me into ordering that. Also tempted to get this Sub-culture finally with a "cover". However, will wait to this Appears (hopefully cheaper) on Amazon or elsewhere.

50poundnote wrote:

In the linked Classic Pop article above, Saville said he was only ever asked to design a label for Subculture because they were rushing to get it out. Kinda wish they'd done this reissue as a diecut sleeve, but I don't mind having it with a slightly different design.

Wonder if either of The Perfect Kiss singles will come with one of the CYMK color variant inner sleeves?

Was just thinking about you and your theory of "the sleeve is the design" (that was you, wasn't it?). And then you post about the sleeve as I'm typing.

perspexorange wrote: 3x12" being released alongside; TPK, Sub-Culture and Shellshock. I'm very glad of the latter, as I always think of it as more Low Life than Brotherhood.

I've always associated it more with Brotherhood, simply because of the similar artwork to State Of The Nation and Bizzare Love Triangle. As it came more or less between those albums, maybe New Order associate it with Low-Life, and Saville Brotherhood.

At least the association's are consistent with the Collectors Editions.

Guess this means it'll be State, Bizarre, True Faith and Touched released with the Brotherhood box - could be as many as 5 x 12" releases to accompany that including the True Faith remix 12".

perspexorange wrote:

negative1 wrote:

ok, i did notice one thing.

the cover to the subculture single is different.

Hmm. Yeah. Looks like it's got the disc label actually printed on the sleeve.

Additionally, the picture of the sleeve for the standard TPK looks almost blue, rather than silver. Unless it's my display / the website showing a wonky colour.

Oh yes, i see now.The Sub Culture sleeve takes the "Sub Culture" type font from the disc label.I actually quite like that, looks pretty cool.

TPK standard sleeve looks almost blue on your screen? Not seeing it like that on mine.

perspexorange wrote:

With the PC&L set, I bought from the store as I think it was slightly cheaper to buy it there than Amazon, if you went with the box plus 4x12"s (which I did). However, when my set arrived, it didn't have that nifty 'Obi-style' band around the set that came with the Amazon-shipped variants. I was mildly peeved about that. I even messaged the New Order Store to see if they could send me one of these 'bands' (they couldn't!).

I bought the PCL box from Amazon and it did not have that Obi Style band. So i wouldn't take it as a given that you'd get one if you ordered it from elsewhere than neworder store.Seems more like luck of the draw.

perspexorange wrote:

Incidentally, I tried to sign into my NOStore account and couldn't (password invalid). Tried to reset, but the necessary email didn't arrive. Seems weird, as I'm sure my password is correct. Wonder if the Store is having problems.

You can order as a guest at neworder store.I guess you did that if you've managed to order the limited edition TPK 12".I had to do that as i've long forgotten my password.Could present problems though if there's any problem with the order?

perspexorange wrote:

I've ordered TPK limited edition, just in case that sells out.

Yep, same.

perspexorange wrote: Leuven and PFD are included. I have said previously that I'd rather they weren't included (as great as they are, especially Leuven). Just because we've got this material in good quality already

Don't recall the Leuven footage being released commercially - where did your "good quality" version of this come from?

perspexorange wrote:

Incidentally, I tried to sign into my NOStore account and couldn't (password invalid). Tried to reset, but the necessary email didn't arrive. Seems weird, as I'm sure my password is correct. Wonder if the Store is having problems.

Anyway, TPK Crystal variant ordered!

my account and password didn't work either. no way to recover.

created a new account.

later -1

Mr Discography wrote:

Don't recall the Leuven footage being released commercially - where did your "good quality" version of this come from?

Over the last few years it’s been on various streaming sites. Quello plus various other places:

https://qello.com/app/concert/2354519/new-order/rox-box

perspexorange wrote:

Mr Discography wrote:

Don't recall the Leuven footage being released commercially - where did your "good quality" version of this come from?

Over the last few years it’s been on various streaming sites. Quello plus various other places:

https://qello.com/app/concert/2354519/new-order/rox-box

Glad it's got a physical release in that case!

I have mixed feelings about the Pumped Full of Drugs show being included (I have the Japanese DVD). While I welcome any improvements made to the audio/visual quality, it's not really that great of a performance. I'd really hoped the missing songs from the gig would be included (The Perfect Kiss, Age of Consent and Temptation). In addition, they played the same venue the day before, and I'd always imagined footage existed from a dry run of the production. Nothing emerges here.

Andy wrote: I have mixed feelings about the Pumped Full of Drugs show being included (I have the Japanese DVD). While I welcome any improvements made to the audio/visual quality, it's not really that great of a performance. I'd really hoped the missing songs from the gig would be included (The Perfect Kiss, Age of Consent and Temptation). In addition, they played the same venue the day before, and I'd always imagined footage existed from a dry run of the production. Nothing emerges here.

I did think at first that it could be the previous night's gig at the venue , so i checked the tracklist but nope, it is indeed the PFD night . Yep, mixed feelings on this for me too.

Andy wrote: I have mixed feelings about the Pumped Full of Drugs show being included (I have the Japanese DVD). While I welcome any improvements made to the audio/visual quality, it's not really that great of a performance. I'd really hoped the missing songs from the gig would be included (The Perfect Kiss, Age of Consent and Temptation). In addition, they played the same venue the day before, and I'd always imagined footage existed from a dry run of the production. Nothing emerges here.

I agree...if the video footage of the three tracks omitted from the original PFD release exists, this seems like the perfect opportunity to finally make it available. Disappointed that it's not included.

Perhaps JJ can provide some insight/knowledge on this?

Nonetheless, this looks like an excellent release. Looking forward to it!

Tracey wrote:

Andy wrote: I have mixed feelings about the Pumped Full of Drugs show being included (I have the Japanese DVD). While I welcome any improvements made to the audio/visual quality, it's not really that great of a performance. I'd really hoped the missing songs from the gig would be included (The Perfect Kiss, Age of Consent and Temptation). In addition, they played the same venue the day before, and I'd always imagined footage existed from a dry run of the production. Nothing emerges here.

I agree...if the video footage of the three tracks omitted from the original PFD release exists, this seems like the perfect opportunity to finally make it available. Disappointed that it's not included.

Perhaps JJ can provide some insight/knowledge on this?

Nonetheless, this looks like an excellent release. Looking forward to it!

I was on the hunt for those tracks, I got multiple U-Matics transferred that looked hopeful, all had the exact same edited version.

Fotz wrote:

But i will pre-order that 5000 limited edition of TPK with the mirrored sleeve and clear vinyl. The mirror image sleeve was something Saville originally envisaged for it ? Didn't know that. Or is that a story that's been cobbled together for a clever marketing ploy to get us to buy the limited edition?

From reading this...

“The mirror finish for The Perfect Kiss sleeve was the idea at the time (1985) that unfortunately was not realised. I have wanted to see it ever since. The original concept was intended to evoke the reflective glamour of a lipstick (re Perfect Kiss) in a minimal / pop art style. The Perfect Kiss in this form will be transformative and a must-have for fans and collectors alike”.

...I think it's pretty clear that Saville wants the owner of the mirror sleeve to use it as a mirror and "transform" themselves by applying lipstick. Maybe y'all could post pictures of yourselves here with lippy on, once you've received your 12"s!

In other news, they've done a little advert. And I'm a sucker for adverts with NO music in them. Especially if the ad is actually for NO (obvs)!

[TWITTER]1590736218307719168[/TWITTER]

Looks good if you go full screen.

negative1 wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

Incidentally, I tried to sign into my NOStore account and couldn't (password invalid). Tried to reset, but the necessary email didn't arrive. Seems weird, as I'm sure my password is correct. Wonder if the Store is having problems.

Anyway, TPK Crystal variant ordered!

my account and password didn't work either. no way to recover.

created a new account.

later -1

Same here ! Didn't receive any confirmation email after ordering...no view either on my placed order yesterday...

In A Noisy Place wrote:

negative1 wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

Incidentally, I tried to sign into my NOStore account and couldn't (password invalid). Tried to reset, but the necessary email didn't arrive. Seems weird, as I'm sure my password is correct. Wonder if the Store is having problems.

Anyway, TPK Crystal variant ordered!

my account and password didn't work either. no way to recover.

created a new account.

later -1

Same here ! Didn't receive any confirmation email after ordering...no view either on my placed order yesterday...

hmm, check with the store.

i did get a confirmation email.

also my credit card was charged, so i know that part went through to.

later -1

Johnny, can you explain the decision not to include the finished vocal version of Let's Go?

I have a cleaned up version that sounds fantastic considering it's sourced from an old cassette. Was it left off the album at the last minute to 1. make room for an edit of The Perfect Kiss, or 2. because it sounds too similar to Sooner Than You Think?

In A Noisy Place wrote: Same here ! Didn't receive any confirmation email after ordering...no view either on my placed order yesterday...

I received a confirmation email for both my separate orders. Please check your credit card to see if the charge went through. If it didn't you may need to place your order again.

On DVD 2, why are Thieves Like Us, Temptation and Confusion placed as bonus tracks at the end of the Leuven video rather than their original place in the set that night? For example, TLU was 4th song at that gig.

Johnny James wrote:

Tracey wrote:

Andy wrote: I have mixed feelings about the Pumped Full of Drugs show being included (I have the Japanese DVD). While I welcome any improvements made to the audio/visual quality, it's not really that great of a performance. I'd really hoped the missing songs from the gig would be included (The Perfect Kiss, Age of Consent and Temptation). In addition, they played the same venue the day before, and I'd always imagined footage existed from a dry run of the production. Nothing emerges here.

I agree...if the video footage of the three tracks omitted from the original PFD release exists, this seems like the perfect opportunity to finally make it available. Disappointed that it's not included.

Perhaps JJ can provide some insight/knowledge on this?

Nonetheless, this looks like an excellent release. Looking forward to it!

I was on the hunt for those tracks, I got multiple U-Matics transferred that looked hopeful, all had the exact same edited version.

Thank you for the reply.

Factory!

Fotz wrote: On DVD 2, why are Thieves Like Us, Temptation and Confusion placed as bonus tracks at the end of the Leuven video rather than their original place in the set that night? For example, TLU was 4th song at that gig.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the original broadcast. As i understand it, the original 'Rox Box' broadcast on 31/12/85 didn't include Temptation. Then, a few days/weeks later in January '86,'Rox Box' broadcast both Temptation and Thieves Like Us. I guess, this was to show footage that they'd had to cut out of the original New Year's Eve footage for (presumably) time constraints. However, I think the original broadcast had TLU included, so maybe they had a few minutes to use up, so showed TLU alongside that 'missing' track (Temptation).

So, maybe these two tracks were together on a different tape etc. JJ might be able to clarify. I guess Confusion is a bonus as it hasn't been shown at all and maybe they wanted to show that this version of the Leuven gig is different from other showings.

Incidentally, I've never been 100% sure that both TLU and Temptation were shown on the later programme. I have a trade list from back in the day that states both tracks were broadcast on that later show. I definitely know Temptation was as I have a copy of that track which ends in a clip of a woman dressed as a chicken (!). I guess she was a presenter; possibly the clip was shown in a tea-time' (i.e. kids) slot. The main Leuven broadcast (on NYE) ends in an advert with a family running to catch a plane/train, so Temptation was certainly shown on a different programme to the main broadcast.

Whilst we're asking JJ questions, could he perhaps answer the following:

1. What the 'TV Pitch' means in respect of Love Vigilantes;
2. Based on the store description which lists 'a BBC session and three tracks performed at the Hacienda in 1985.', does that mean that the25/08/84 session is on it and just not listed? Or was it pulled and the contents rejigged?

I know I mentioned these before, but this thread has moved on quite a bit since then (nice to see a flurry of activity on the boards!)

Johnny James wrote:

Tracey wrote:

Andy wrote: I have mixed feelings about the Pumped Full of Drugs show being included (I have the Japanese DVD). While I welcome any improvements made to the audio/visual quality, it's not really that great of a performance. I'd really hoped the missing songs from the gig would be included (The Perfect Kiss, Age of Consent and Temptation). In addition, they played the same venue the day before, and I'd always imagined footage existed from a dry run of the production. Nothing emerges here.

I agree...if the video footage of the three tracks omitted from the original PFD release exists, this seems like the perfect opportunity to finally make it available. Disappointed that it's not included.

Perhaps JJ can provide some insight/knowledge on this?

Nonetheless, this looks like an excellent release. Looking forward to it!

I was on the hunt for those tracks, I got multiple U-Matics transferred that looked hopeful, all had the exact same edited version.

Thanks for making the effort to locate the omitted tracks and for your reply on this. It's always interesting to have additional context/background on what goes into putting these types of releases together.

perspexorange wrote:

Fotz wrote: On DVD 2, why are Thieves Like Us, Temptation and Confusion placed as bonus tracks at the end of the Leuven video rather than their original place in the set that night? For example, TLU was 4th song at that gig.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the original broadcast. As i understand it, the original 'Rox Box' broadcast on 31/12/85 didn't include Temptation. Then, a few days/weeks later in January '86,'Rox Box' broadcast both Temptation and Thieves Like Us. I guess, this was to show footage that they'd had to cut out of the original New Year's Eve footage for (presumably) time constraints. However, I think the original broadcast had TLU included, so maybe they had a few minutes to use up, so showed TLU alongside that 'missing' track (Temptation).

So, maybe these two tracks were together on a different tape etc. JJ might be able to clarify. I guess Confusion is a bonus as it hasn't been shown at all and maybe they wanted to show that this version of the Leuven gig is different from other showings.

Incidentally, I've never been 100% sure that both TLU and Temptation were shown on the later programme. I have a trade list from back in the day that states both tracks were broadcast on that later show. I definitely know Temptation was as I have a copy of that track which ends in a clip of a woman dressed as a chicken (!). I guess she was a presenter; possibly the clip was shown in a tea-time' (i.e. kids) slot. The main Leuven broadcast (on NYE) ends in an advert with a family running to catch a plane/train, so Temptation was certainly shown on a different programme to the main broadcast.

Thanks perspex and i think you may be absolutely correct, it has to do with the broadcasts and which tracks were originally aired and which others at a later date. I have an old VHS i obtained somewhere somehow in the late 80s of the Rox Box tv broadcast and i vaguely recall Thieves Like Us is on it in the correct place in the set.But to check and confirm this i'd have to dig out my old video player, rig it all up and play the tape, that's assuming it's still playable, it has been on the shelf for many years.I have the Stingray Qello thing ( i think you sent me it a year or two back, perspex) on my laptop and just checked and Thieves and Temptation are tagged on the end.Will be good to see Confusion for the first time from that gig.

Amazon UK has the box at £143 , so not much difference from the New Order store, a few quid cheaper but i'm still going to wait til nearer the release.

The band just posted a link to The Perfect Kiss on Twitter and Instagram, and they're using the sleeve I build in Photoshop for Recycle. That feels very validating! :)

50poundnote wrote: The band just posted a link to The Perfect Kiss on Twitter and Instagram, and they're using the sleeve I build in Photoshop for Recycle. That feels very validating! :)

The work of their Social Media Manager has been patchy at best. But I classify that as a win!

Man, that writing session recording of The Perfect Kiss is a banger and a half. I do think the price of the set is a bit steep, but whatever, I'm a NO slut so it'll be mine day one.