Should New Order release an album of Joy Division covers? Also, should they take some of the many songs written by Ian and complete them? Imagine how cool the album could be? Yes, it could be bad and shameful, but somehow I doubt it. Everytime I hear them play a JD song - even the 98 Peels, the spirit is the same and it does them credit. I may just be hoping for no reason, but I would think that they would eventually get around to doing it. I would love to see some of Ian's unreleased lyrics finished. Look at Ceremony and In A Lonely Place - 2 of my favorite NO songs, but really are JD songs. Look at their live versions of Isolation and Atmosphere... such potential!
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New Order release an album of Joy Division materials
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This is an archived legacy thread. Replies are closed, but the discussion is preserved.
Should New Order do a CD with live and studio JD tracks?
Closed-
A resounding YES 32 (34%)
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I would love it, Deborah wouldn't allow it 5 (5%)
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It has potential 19 (20%)
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I'm scared but still listening 13 (14%)
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I can't imagine it would be good 15 (16%)
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It makes me sick to even think about it 11 (12%)
95 votes · voting closed
for me NO versions of JD songs sound like covers (the best covers, by the way). but I prefer the original ones because they meant something at that time with the original band. if you take Ian´s singing out it isn´t the same. JD makes sense WITH Ian in my opinion. without him everything loses its soul. and NO have never been able to replace that soul when playing JD stuff. something´s always missing. the best versions of that songs have already been recorded, so why would they record them again? what´s the point?
I'd rather they concentrate on new stuff.
In my opinion, the concerts from 1998 on featured too many Joy Division songs. I would rather have heard more PC&L, Low-Life and Technique tracks and have them dust off only 2 or 3 JD songs per set.
I know the days of setlists varying greatly from gig to gig are gone, but I'd like to see them mix it up a LITTLE bit on the next tour.
I think that things are fine just like they are...but if they did, I don't imagine I would complain much.
Those songs deserve Ian though...
I'm quite sure the result would be OK, but I don't see the point in doing this... except that it would delay any release of new material, and I don't want to wait eight more years. I'm very happy with them singing JD songs during concerts (though, as mentioned above, I'd prefer to have them play more PC&L and LL material).
Seems like I've been here before.........
Personally I'd rather they didn't play any Joy Division songs at all, as they invariably massacre them, with Barney whooping all over them like a demented nervous child. They don't sound right without Ian.
Having said that, Transmission is pretty good, and I'd love to hear Decades just once more. The live set has become so predictable these days, there's a big enough back catalogue to choose from (I know they only chose Digital and SLC because they were in the film), so it wouldn't really hurt them to give it a bit of variety.
No one has addressed the part about new songs from Ian's uncompleted lyrics. What about that?
I'm scared but still listening....
It would have potential, to be sure, and I would hope the guys still know the chords (twenty-odd years of drink and drugs might say otherwise), but I'd be careful around such a prospect. I think it would be nice, but who knows?
As for making songs out of Ian's unfinished lyrics, that could be interesting but potenially disasterous as well. Plus, Debbie might not let them do it :p
Originally posted by Wolfmann No one has addressed the part about new songs from Ian's uncompleted lyrics. What about that?
you mean like TLC has just done with Lisa Left Eye's fragments? I am totally against any artist "finishing" someone else's work....this goes for that shameful Beatles song from a few years back "Free as a Bird?"
A great big NO FUCKING WAY to that idea.....
Originally posted by Taboo # 7 I'm scared but still listening....It would have potential, to be sure, and I would hope the guys still know the chords (twenty-odd years of drink and drugs might say otherwise), but I'd be careful around such a prospect. I think it would be nice, but who knows?As for making songs out of Ian's unfinished lyrics, that could be interesting but potenially disasterous as well. Plus, Debbie might not let them do it :p
I tend to agree about the Debbie issue. If I were her (and not poor) I would say no. Part of me thinks it would be a nice tribute, the other part thinks it is terrible to even think about it. I would think that there are some other songs like Ceremony that the three of them played or fooled around with prior to Ian's death, but have not seen the light of day. Kind of like Turn The Heater On, but good.
Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid > Originally posted by Wolfmann> No one has addressed the part about new songs from Ian's uncompleted lyrics. What about that?
you mean like TLC has just done with Lisa Left Eye's fragments? I am totally against any artist "finishing" someone else's work....this goes for that shameful Beatles song from a few years back "Free as a Bird?"
A great big NO FUCKING WAY to that idea.....
Let's not forget the Doors going back and recording backing tracks over Jim Morrison's last poetry reading (nevermind the fact that he wanted that session heard unaccompanied). That's the one Doors album I'll never buy....
Originally posted by Wolfmann > Originally posted by Taboo # 7> I'm scared but still listening....> > > It would have potential, to be sure, and I would hope the guys still know the chords (twenty-odd years of drink and drugs might say otherwise), but I'd be careful around such a prospect. I think it would be nice, but who knows?> > As for making songs out of Ian's unfinished lyrics, that could be interesting but potenially disasterous as well. Plus, Debbie might not let them do it :p
I tend to agree about the Debbie issue. If I were her (and not poor) I would say no. Part of me thinks it would be a nice tribute, the other part thinks it is terrible to even think about it. I would think that there are some other songs like Ceremony that the three of them played or fooled around with prior to Ian's death, but have not seen the light of day. Kind of like Turn The Heater On, but good.
WHAT?! I love Turn The Heater On. Gotta beat them all....put it on a mix with EGG, Chosen Time, Temptation...fit's perfectly...
for i feel so cold at niiiiiiighhhhhtttt
Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapazoid > Originally posted by Wolfmann> > > > Originally posted by Taboo # 7> > I'm scared but still listening....> > > > > > It would have potential, to be sure, and I would hope the guys still know the chords (twenty-odd years of drink and drugs might say otherwise), but I'd be careful around such a prospect. I think it would be nice, but who knows?> > > > As for making songs out of Ian's unfinished lyrics, that could be interesting but potenially disasterous as well. Plus, Debbie might not let them do it :p>
I tend to agree about the Debbie issue. If I were her (and not poor) I would say no. Part of me thinks it would be a nice tribute, the other part thinks it is terrible to even think about it. I would think that there are some other songs like Ceremony that the three of them played or fooled around with prior to Ian's death, but have not seen the light of day. Kind of like Turn The Heater On, but good.
WHAT?! I love Turn The Heater On. Gotta beat them all....put it on a mix with EGG, Chosen Time, Temptation...fit's perfectly...
for i feel so cold at niiiiiiighhhhhtttt
Maybe on Rest Of 2 they would
An album? maybe not, but B-Sides for the upcoming album, hell yes...!!
But of course I'd love to have that, especially since they did so many on the recent tour, they could easily record those right away...
Digital Isolation Atmosphere Love Will Tear Us Apart She's Lost Control Transmission Heart & Soul New Dawn Fades
this all sounds like a VERY bad idea.... maybe a couple of remakes for fun, but rerecord more than that? why?????
Paul McCartney may play some old Beatles songs live for fun (and profit i guess), but would you want him to rerecord a whole new CD of Beatles songs, with Ringo too?
you can't relive the past
Originally posted by pumped full of drugs Paul McCartney may play some old Beatles songs live for fun (and profit i guess), but would you want him to rerecord a whole new CD of Beatles songs, with Ringo too?you can't relive the past
to be honest, i like hearing them play JD songs live because, after all, they are 3/4 of the band.... but a new album? hmmm. i don't think that would be the best idea. sounds interesting at first, but leave well enough alone. live is fine, but keep it out of the studio (although maybe a b-side occasionally would be OK).
I don't like New Order doing JD songs..they sound too "nineties", no matter what decade or date they do them..i would'nt mind so much if they used the same GEAR, which they recorded and played them originally, but they dont!!!!
Originally posted by Wolfmann I would think that there are some other songs like Ceremony that the three of them played or fooled around with prior to Ian's death, but have not seen the light of day. Kind of like Turn The Heater On, but good.
I hope you do realise that Turn The Heater On was a cover of a Keith Hudson reggae track, which was one of Ian's personal favourite tracks, and wasn't written by Ian !!!!!
Is there some mileage in them re-mixing or re-recording the backing tracks used on Closer and Unknown Pleasures, but retaining the original vocals ? Personally I hope not.
Their stance now on JD stuff is "we wrote it, we'll play it". I used to prefer it in the mid and late 80s, when if you got a JD track it was a special treat. Nowadays it's every other track, and it does my nut. I could tolerate it if it were just the encore that had three JD songs or something, but playing (often badly, with the exception of Transmission) the same songs night in night out does grate after a while. Sad to reflect that New Order have now played Atmosphere and LWTUA more times live than Joy Division did.....
They are New Order not Joy Division!
Its all well and good paying homage to their past by playing certain songs live but I think thats as far as it goes.
Originally posted by Major Tarantino I hate it how they play 5-ish JD songs, but nothing from Technique... it makes no sense...
It is a tragedy i completly agree!!
I would love them to keep LWTUA and digital, but replace the rest with Love less, all the way and round&round.
They always murder atmosphere live anyway.
"Waaalk in siiilence (screech!), don't walk awa-a-a-ay in silence (wooo! whistle!)"
etc...
Barney's vocals have changed so much from the early days that even early NO songs like Procession or Leave Me Alone would sound crap with the way he sings live these days, never mind JD songs. If they can't treat the great songs from the past with some respect then they should just avoid them altogether and play RTS and Slow Jam and their ilk.
That's a good point, and may even answer our questions as to why they refuse to play certain old songs.
Far as I'm concerned, NO and JD are the same band. I know others may disagree (including the band themselves) but JD were moving in that direction anyway on Closer, and it's not hard to imagine Ian singing something like Blue Monday or True Faith. Or at least not for me.
thats just rubbish, its impossible to picture Ian in the late eighties or nineties..
but about New Order doing Joy Division songs..yes they aren't as good. But i also think that Joy Division could do a better "Sister Ray", than New Order's on that BBC album -- what an awful version..."sister ray said i love you.." i mean, what????
Originally posted by DoN > Originally posted by Major Tarantino I hate it how they play 5-ish JD songs, but nothing from Technique... it makes no sense...
It is a tragedy i completly agree!!
I agree, no Technique is sad. But, on the other hand, I would hate to be the person making the set list for a 90 minute concert for a 25 year old band. I wish they would change set lists regularly to keep things fresh and covering all the important bases. I like that they play JD in their shows, but 5 songs in a 16 song set is a little much.
I'm a huge Joy Division fan, and I wouldn't mind listening to New Order play JD songs live in concert, but recording and selling a cover album would be completely disrespectful to Ian. Those albums are some of the last things we have of Ian, and it just wouldn't be right. I understand that they wrote the songs together as a band, but out of respect for Ian, I say leave well enough alone, Joy Division is Joy Division and New Order is New Order, leave the cover songs to live shows.
no! no! enough revisiting, remixing, recycling, reintepreting, reissuing, repackaging, remarketing and remaking the past. Concentrate on some new material (lots more).
Originally posted by Elizabeth Trevino I'm a huge Joy Division fan, and I wouldn't mind listening to New Order play JD songs live in concert, but recording and selling a cover album would be completely disrespectful to Ian. Those albums are some of the last things we have of Ian, and it just wouldn't be right. I understand that they wrote the songs together as a band, but out of respect for Ian, I say leave well enough alone, Joy Division is Joy Division and New Order is New Order, leave the cover songs to live shows.
I fixed your avatar a little ;)
Hmmm... It's strange to me that so many seem to think of NO and JD as two almost completely different bands, and to think of NO as "covering" joy division. To me, all that really happened was a name change following Ian Curtis' death. Many bands lose a member and continue (often tragically) with a new member under the same name. NO opted for a different approach, which to me was completely sensible. Personally, I think of the JD stuff as their early stuff, as if they were one in the same band. Like marillion playing songs from " Script for a jesters tear" or depeche mode playing stuff from " A broken frame" Obviously, Mr. Curtis' absence is duly noted, terribly missed and impossible to make up for. But the ghosts of Joy division haunt the remaining members, and playing that material live is doubtless the best way to exsorsize that demon, at least temporarily. I' m all for such an album.
I wouldn't have a problem with them doing the odd update on a JD song as a B-side say but defo not as an album. Too lazy and tacky for my liking. OK, they've released Retro but they should still be looking forward not backward. That's just my opinion though. They wrote the songs so they have every right to do what the hell they like woth those songs.
It is true that JD and some NO material are really not in Barney's limited vocal range. But you have to remember, much of it wasn't in Ian's range either ! They used speed changes in the studio and he sang through a harmonizer live. Maybe Barney should give that a shot. It's an interesting sound. Personally I think that if they aren't going to do them justice they are better off leaving them alone, I get pretty tired of hearing Barney jump up and down octaves mid verse, or attempting to hit a high or low note and failing miserably, and screwing up the lyrics.
Originally posted by teleharmonium It is true that JD and some NO material are really not in Barney's limited vocal range. But you have to remember, much of it wasn't in Ian's range either ! They used speed changes in the studio and he sang through a harmonizer live. Maybe Barney should give that a shot. It's an interesting sound. Personally I think that if they aren't going to do them justice they are better off leaving them alone, I get pretty tired of hearing Barney jump up and down octaves mid verse, or attempting to hit a high or low note and failing miserably, and screwing up the lyrics.
Listen to some of the live JD stuff we have - Ian didn't exactly get the lyrics correct all the time either. The band have gone on record as saying that they enjoy playing the songs live - surely that matters a lot? I would not like to see them taking a mournful reverential tone - the songs were meant to be enjoyed musically, whatever about anything else. NO like these songs, are proud of the fact that they wrote them with Ian, and want Ian's songs and lyrics to be heard. 'Nuff said.
Originally posted by mh > Originally posted by teleharmonium> It is true that JD and some NO material are really not in Barney's limited vocal range. But you have to remember, much of it wasn't in Ian's range either ! They used speed changes in the studio and he sang through a harmonizer live. Maybe Barney should give that a shot. It's an interesting sound. Personally I think that if they aren't going to do them justice they are better off leaving them alone, I get pretty tired of hearing Barney jump up and down octaves mid verse, or attempting to hit a high or low note and failing miserably, and screwing up the lyrics.
Listen to some of the live JD stuff we have - Ian didn't exactly get the lyrics correct all the time either. The band have gone on record as saying that they enjoy playing the songs live - surely that matters a lot? I would not like to see them taking a mournful reverential tone - the songs were meant to be enjoyed musically, whatever about anything else. NO like these songs, are proud of the fact that they wrote them with Ian, and want Ian's songs and lyrics to be heard. 'Nuff said.
I agree. JD's songs should be heard. I agree that they should not be sung in some wierd reverencial tone that they were not originally done with. I think Barney could hold his own on just about any of the songs. I also think it would be sad for JD's music to kind of go away - no new releases of material (either original or NO covered) and not heard live. They are one band I hope is always being recommended to another. One thing I do disagree with is that JD losing Ian is like Marillion or Depeche Mode. It is much closer to a Genesis situation. Most Genesis fans do not see the band the same way at all without Peter Gabriel. They can call themselves Genesis, but it just doesn't make it so. They can play the old songs all they want, but Peter made early Genesis great. Ian's persona, writing talents, and voice made 80% of JD easily. I am glad NO continued, and I am more glad that they changed the name and started anew. NO is really not JD. It is like a football team getting a new coach. The team takes on the persona that the coach gives it.
At first I said yes out of sentiment. JD will always have a special place in my heart and their music will live with me forever. However I believe NO should never consider re-recording these songs and should continue moving forward. I do enjoy NO playing JD songs at live shows though . SLC & Digital at Finsbury were a highlight for me, but I think that should be as far as things go.
I don't know about an entire album of JD songs, but I do think they should start doing other ones live. It would make the live shows a lot more entertaining. I'm sure it's too time consuming to be ever given much thought, though. Plus, I'm in agreement that they keep pushing ahead with minimimal (as in none) collaboration efforts.
Only a non JD/NO fan could've started this thread.
Would all the ManYoo fans here like to see ManYoo play Charlton and Best in midfield this week?
Hmmm.. .. .
Originally posted by Al Jarvis Only a non JD/NO fan could've started this thread.Would all the ManYoo fans here like to see ManYoo play Charlton and Best in midfield this week?Hmmm.. .. .
Too bad the majority of people on this thread agree with me (for a change)... Don't compare the JD/NO thing with any other situation.
Also, what about the 98 Peels? NO did JD songs there, and they sound just fine. I am sure that the people on this site who have them appreciate them. If they don't have them, they are probably trying to get them.
Id rather they use studio time to release another album,Joy Division covers? The originals are the best.
I'd buy it if they DID do a JD album, but I'd be wishing that my money was paying for an album of NEW stuff.
I WANT NEW MATERIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D:D:D:D:D anita, stomping foot angrily
For the fact they are New Order and not Joy Division, I would rather them play more new order and less JD live.
So my response to re-recording old JD material definitely not. You can't go backwards, theres no point. It would be a cop out and show they lack new ideas. Maybe the odd b-side wouldn't hurt. And considering Barney refused to re-record Love Will Tear Us Apart for The Crow, there no chance of this ever happening. And amen to that.
cheers ALEX
Originally posted by anita I'd buy it if they DID do a JD album, but I'd be wishing that my money was paying for an album of NEW stuff.I WANT NEW MATERIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:Danita, stomping foot angrily
I couldn't have put it better myself. But a cover as a B-side would be better than all those remixes.
Originally posted by Wolfmann Look at Ceremony and In A Lonely Place - 2 of my favorite NO songs, but really are JD songs.
so you are saying they are primarily joy division songs?
hmmm.....
they should put appropriately Joy Divisionesque music to Ian's unfinished lyrics from the back of his book. knowing how important he was to them, the band probably wouldn't make a 'Republic' out of it, or fuck it up otherwise.
Originally posted by David Church they should put appropriately Joy Divisionesque music to Ian's unfinished lyrics from the back of his book. knowing how important he was to them, the band probably wouldn't make a 'Republic' out of it, or fuck it up otherwise.
I am planning to invite some friends to write music for those songs.I´ll talk with Alejo about this.
Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart > Originally posted by David Church> they should put appropriately Joy Divisionesque music to Ian's unfinished lyrics from the back of his book. knowing how important he was to them, the band probably wouldn't make a 'Republic' out of it, or fuck it up otherwise.
I am planning to invite some friends to write music for those songs.I´ll talk with Alejo about this.
Do you think fans could get the rights to "cover" those songs, or at least use the lyrics? I imagine Debbie Curtis owns the rights to them instead of a record company, so you'd only have to get copyright permission from her and the publisher of her book--but she probably wouldn't go for it. Who knows if she'd let the band do it? Probably, since she's still in good terms with the band (I assume) and since she'd make some good money off it! But then again, let's hope she has a shread of integrity.
Firstly, what I really want is MORE releases. It would be great to see New Order releasing lots of new albums in the next years - and I really hope so. But, someday in one of their "lack of creativity" periods, revisiting JD songs should be better than nothing. Or at least more interesting than re-recording True Faith, Blue Monday or Bizarre Love Triangle.
