New Order release an album of Joy Division materials

Originally posted by DoN > Originally posted by Major Tarantino I hate it how they play 5-ish JD songs, but nothing from Technique... it makes no sense...

It is a tragedy i completly agree!!

I agree, no Technique is sad. But, on the other hand, I would hate to be the person making the set list for a 90 minute concert for a 25 year old band. I wish they would change set lists regularly to keep things fresh and covering all the important bases. I like that they play JD in their shows, but 5 songs in a 16 song set is a little much.

I'm a huge Joy Division fan, and I wouldn't mind listening to New Order play JD songs live in concert, but recording and selling a cover album would be completely disrespectful to Ian. Those albums are some of the last things we have of Ian, and it just wouldn't be right. I understand that they wrote the songs together as a band, but out of respect for Ian, I say leave well enough alone, Joy Division is Joy Division and New Order is New Order, leave the cover songs to live shows.

no! no! enough revisiting, remixing, recycling, reintepreting, reissuing, repackaging, remarketing and remaking the past. Concentrate on some new material (lots more).

Hmmm... It's strange to me that so many seem to think of NO and JD as two almost completely different bands, and to think of NO as "covering" joy division. To me, all that really happened was a name change following Ian Curtis' death. Many bands lose a member and continue (often tragically) with a new member under the same name. NO opted for a different approach, which to me was completely sensible. Personally, I think of the JD stuff as their early stuff, as if they were one in the same band. Like marillion playing songs from " Script for a jesters tear" or depeche mode playing stuff from " A broken frame" Obviously, Mr. Curtis' absence is duly noted, terribly missed and impossible to make up for. But the ghosts of Joy division haunt the remaining members, and playing that material live is doubtless the best way to exsorsize that demon, at least temporarily. I' m all for such an album.

I wouldn't have a problem with them doing the odd update on a JD song as a B-side say but defo not as an album. Too lazy and tacky for my liking. OK, they've released Retro but they should still be looking forward not backward. That's just my opinion though. They wrote the songs so they have every right to do what the hell they like woth those songs.

It is true that JD and some NO material are really not in Barney's limited vocal range. But you have to remember, much of it wasn't in Ian's range either ! They used speed changes in the studio and he sang through a harmonizer live. Maybe Barney should give that a shot. It's an interesting sound. Personally I think that if they aren't going to do them justice they are better off leaving them alone, I get pretty tired of hearing Barney jump up and down octaves mid verse, or attempting to hit a high or low note and failing miserably, and screwing up the lyrics.

no FUCKEN way

Originally posted by teleharmonium It is true that JD and some NO material are really not in Barney's limited vocal range. But you have to remember, much of it wasn't in Ian's range either ! They used speed changes in the studio and he sang through a harmonizer live. Maybe Barney should give that a shot. It's an interesting sound. Personally I think that if they aren't going to do them justice they are better off leaving them alone, I get pretty tired of hearing Barney jump up and down octaves mid verse, or attempting to hit a high or low note and failing miserably, and screwing up the lyrics.

Listen to some of the live JD stuff we have - Ian didn't exactly get the lyrics correct all the time either. The band have gone on record as saying that they enjoy playing the songs live - surely that matters a lot? I would not like to see them taking a mournful reverential tone - the songs were meant to be enjoyed musically, whatever about anything else. NO like these songs, are proud of the fact that they wrote them with Ian, and want Ian's songs and lyrics to be heard. 'Nuff said.

Originally posted by mh > Originally posted by teleharmonium> It is true that JD and some NO material are really not in Barney's limited vocal range. But you have to remember, much of it wasn't in Ian's range either ! They used speed changes in the studio and he sang through a harmonizer live. Maybe Barney should give that a shot. It's an interesting sound. Personally I think that if they aren't going to do them justice they are better off leaving them alone, I get pretty tired of hearing Barney jump up and down octaves mid verse, or attempting to hit a high or low note and failing miserably, and screwing up the lyrics.

Listen to some of the live JD stuff we have - Ian didn't exactly get the lyrics correct all the time either. The band have gone on record as saying that they enjoy playing the songs live - surely that matters a lot? I would not like to see them taking a mournful reverential tone - the songs were meant to be enjoyed musically, whatever about anything else. NO like these songs, are proud of the fact that they wrote them with Ian, and want Ian's songs and lyrics to be heard. 'Nuff said.

I agree. JD's songs should be heard. I agree that they should not be sung in some wierd reverencial tone that they were not originally done with. I think Barney could hold his own on just about any of the songs. I also think it would be sad for JD's music to kind of go away - no new releases of material (either original or NO covered) and not heard live. They are one band I hope is always being recommended to another. One thing I do disagree with is that JD losing Ian is like Marillion or Depeche Mode. It is much closer to a Genesis situation. Most Genesis fans do not see the band the same way at all without Peter Gabriel. They can call themselves Genesis, but it just doesn't make it so. They can play the old songs all they want, but Peter made early Genesis great. Ian's persona, writing talents, and voice made 80% of JD easily. I am glad NO continued, and I am more glad that they changed the name and started anew. NO is really not JD. It is like a football team getting a new coach. The team takes on the persona that the coach gives it.

[Content deleted by Phil Dawson on 1/10/2003 5:41:08 PM EDT]

At first I said yes out of sentiment. JD will always have a special place in my heart and their music will live with me forever. However I believe NO should never consider re-recording these songs and should continue moving forward. I do enjoy NO playing JD songs at live shows though . SLC & Digital at Finsbury were a highlight for me, but I think that should be as far as things go.

I don't know about an entire album of JD songs, but I do think they should start doing other ones live. It would make the live shows a lot more entertaining. I'm sure it's too time consuming to be ever given much thought, though. Plus, I'm in agreement that they keep pushing ahead with minimimal (as in none) collaboration efforts.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis Only a non JD/NO fan could've started this thread.Would all the ManYoo fans here like to see ManYoo play Charlton and Best in midfield this week?Hmmm.. .. .

Too bad the majority of people on this thread agree with me (for a change)... Don't compare the JD/NO thing with any other situation.

Also, what about the 98 Peels? NO did JD songs there, and they sound just fine. I am sure that the people on this site who have them appreciate them. If they don't have them, they are probably trying to get them.

No.

Id rather they use studio time to release another album,Joy Division covers? The originals are the best.

I'd buy it if they DID do a JD album, but I'd be wishing that my money was paying for an album of NEW stuff.

I WANT NEW MATERIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D:D:D:D:D anita, stomping foot angrily

For the fact they are New Order and not Joy Division, I would rather them play more new order and less JD live.

So my response to re-recording old JD material definitely not. You can't go backwards, theres no point. It would be a cop out and show they lack new ideas. Maybe the odd b-side wouldn't hurt. And considering Barney refused to re-record Love Will Tear Us Apart for The Crow, there no chance of this ever happening. And amen to that.

cheers ALEX

Originally posted by anita I'd buy it if they DID do a JD album, but I'd be wishing that my money was paying for an album of NEW stuff.I WANT NEW MATERIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:Danita, stomping foot angrily

I couldn't have put it better myself. But a cover as a B-side would be better than all those remixes.

new material is the way forward

Originally posted by Wolfmann Look at Ceremony and In A Lonely Place - 2 of my favorite NO songs, but really are JD songs.

so you are saying they are primarily joy division songs?

hmmm.....

After listening to Digital at Finsbury Park, the answer is YES !!

they should put appropriately Joy Divisionesque music to Ian's unfinished lyrics from the back of his book. knowing how important he was to them, the band probably wouldn't make a 'Republic' out of it, or fuck it up otherwise.

Originally posted by David Church they should put appropriately Joy Divisionesque music to Ian's unfinished lyrics from the back of his book. knowing how important he was to them, the band probably wouldn't make a 'Republic' out of it, or fuck it up otherwise.

I am planning to invite some friends to write music for those songs.I´ll talk with Alejo about this.

Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart > Originally posted by David Church> they should put appropriately Joy Divisionesque music to Ian's unfinished lyrics from the back of his book. knowing how important he was to them, the band probably wouldn't make a 'Republic' out of it, or fuck it up otherwise.

I am planning to invite some friends to write music for those songs.I´ll talk with Alejo about this.

Do you think fans could get the rights to "cover" those songs, or at least use the lyrics? I imagine Debbie Curtis owns the rights to them instead of a record company, so you'd only have to get copyright permission from her and the publisher of her book--but she probably wouldn't go for it. Who knows if she'd let the band do it? Probably, since she's still in good terms with the band (I assume) and since she'd make some good money off it! But then again, let's hope she has a shread of integrity.

Firstly, what I really want is MORE releases. It would be great to see New Order releasing lots of new albums in the next years - and I really hope so. But, someday in one of their "lack of creativity" periods, revisiting JD songs should be better than nothing. Or at least more interesting than re-recording True Faith, Blue Monday or Bizarre Love Triangle.