Ceremony ; primarily JD or NO

I heard hooky once say that Ceremony to him defined the End of joy division not the Beggining of New Order

Id say its a Joy Division song because the lyrics are so unmistakeably Ians, in a way its like his good-bye note to everyone he loved and New Order just read it out for him. You can hear a bit of what will soon become New Order in there, because they were slowly evolving, but it still sounds closer to JD.

'watching forever....'

It's OK, Al, you can still have it that way in your mind.

This thread seems to have brought out the worst in all you Noolers, seems to be a touchy subject. Please forgive me for starting it.

New Order played it EXACTLY like JD did on Still. Of course it's a JD song. They didn't change it at all.

It was written as Joy Division, as was In a lonely place of course the song progressed, all songs do when they are played over time but had joy division continued it was going to be one of the bands mainstays

who played it most? new order

whose name is on the sleeve of the only offical releases of the song as a seperate entity? new order

whose song is it? see above.

who cares if its new order or joy division anyway as long as they keep it in the set!

It's a New Order song with lyrics by Ian Curtis.

Bitchin' about who's song it is! Unfuckinbelieveable! It's a New Order song. Full Stop!

It seems kind of silly to whine about us having this discussion at all and then throw out your opinion on the matter in the same breath.

so what about in a lonely place?

Lol. In a Lonely Place leaves me feeling torn two ways. In many ways it's my favourite New Order song. Sometimes the lyrics make me think of Ian writing them about his mistress or his wife, other times I imagine Bernard singing "How I wish you were here with me now" about Ian. It's gloomy, but so very powerful with it.

barny could never have written lyrics like that

joy division song polished by new order

Originally posted by Jim Giliberto joy division song polished by new order

Just the way I like to look at it

Originally posted by teleharmonium It seems kind of silly to whine about us having this discussion at all and then throw out your opinion on the matter in the same breath.

What's your point caller?

It's pretty obvious what my point is Johnny

Originally posted by Spotnick Who cares..Joy Division = New Order So it's a song from the same damned group!

I second this! this poll is quite annoying.....

Originally posted by Chuckles > Originally posted by Spotnick> Who cares..> > Joy Division = New Order > > So it's a song from the same damned group!

I second this! this poll is quite annoying.....

I agree.

Al, if you're going to criticize my post, at least have the decency to acknowledge that it was in reply to your ridiculous rant that you subsequently deleted.

Since I'm feeling charitable today, I did go ahead and add to my profile (which already included my name BTW). Now you can start developing a psychological profile with which to try and discredit my future arguments, or more easily stalk me.

Teleharmonium,

Ceremony is a song that's credited, in the name of equality, as written by Joy Division. Most of the music Joy Division produced was written by Bernard, believe it or not, but FACT nonetheless. Curtis contributed lyrics, rarely musical ideas.

The Rolling Stones 2nd (i think) single, I Wanna Be Your Man, was written and demo'd by Lennon and McCartney. Does that make it a Beatles song? No, I think not.

There are numerous examples of this throughout the music industry. Nothing Compares To You for example. Written by Prince, made famous by Sinead O'Connor.

Ceremony. Written by Joy Division. Released by New Order. New Order song. Simple as that.

I always thought of "I wanna be your man" as Beatles song, I've never heard anyone else do it, I'm surprised that the Stones did it (I'm not a big Stones fan although I like some of their psych era stuff and Brian Jones was cool as hell). The Grateful Dead very likely played 'Not Fade Away' more often than New Order have played Ceremony live, but it's still a Buddy Holly song (at least, as far as I know...). I think I know what you're getting at, which is that in some cases an artist will become mainly associated with a song that they didn't necessarily write or do first, which in the biz is often called 'owning' the song. Like you might hear it said that it is an old traditional tune, but the Beach Boys 'own' Sloop John B, and Jimi Hendrix 'owned' Hey Joe. I can accept that in the case of New Order and Ceremony, but I still personally think of it as a Joy Division song that New Order kept in their repertoire and made into one of their signature tunes. I realize that this is a blurry distinction, but a lot of things are blurry in life, I gave up pretending that everything could/should be clear years ago.

Originally posted by Johnny Teleharmonium,Ceremony is a song that's credited, in the name of equality, as written by Joy Division. Most of the music Joy Division produced was written by Bernard, believe it or not, but FACT nonetheless. Curtis contributed lyrics, rarely musical ideas.The Rolling Stones 2nd (i think) single, I Wanna Be Your Man, was written and demo'd by Lennon and McCartney. Does that make it a Beatles song? No, I think not.There are numerous examples of this throughout the music industry. Nothing Compares To You for example. Written by Prince, made famous by Sinead O'Connor. Ceremony. Written by Joy Division. Released by New Order. New Order song. Simple as that.

You forget to mention that NO played it EXACTLY like JD did. They didn't change a thing really. Listen to it on Substance and then Still - no real difference in style or content (with the exception of Ian's voice). The song wasn't started with JD, it was completed... then NO just continued it. I agree with others to drop this line of questioning... as long as people stop telling other people that NO is the real song owner, when all they did is cover it... would you call Transmission a NO song? What about Love Will Tear Us Apart? Hell NO! By now, NO have played those songs more times, for more years than JD did but it doesn't make one bit of difference - they are all JD songs only covered by NO.

Originally posted by Johnny Teleharmonium,Ceremony is a song that's credited, in the name of equality, as written by Joy Division. Most of the music Joy Division produced was written by Bernard, believe it or not, but FACT nonetheless. Curtis contributed lyrics, rarely musical ideas.The Rolling Stones 2nd (i think) single, I Wanna Be Your Man, was written and demo'd by Lennon and McCartney. Does that make it a Beatles song? No, I think not.There are numerous examples of this throughout the music industry. Nothing Compares To You for example. Written by Prince, made famous by Sinead O'Connor. Ceremony. Written by Joy Division. Released by New Order. New Order song. Simple as that.

Wrong - see above. JD did release the song... it's on Still

well its 60-40 in favor of joy division