Cure and Depeche Mode copied NO?

I have heard or remembered reading saying that Cure and DM copied NO or tried to duplicate NO sound.

My question is this true? If it is--how could it be if Cure came out in 76 and DM in 80?

Just wondering.

I can't speak for the Cure, but no DM tracks sound remotely like any of NO's. Two completely different sounds for two completely different bands.

There's a lot of criticisms that Cure's funereal Pornography album, released in 1982 (their real raincoat album : they recorded it in a studio and lived there for a couple of months - Robert Smith built a tent made out of beer cans, apparently...) borrowed heavily from Movement - certainly songs such as "A Strange Day" seem to be an amalgam of the best bits of the Order. The Cure were experimenting heavily with synthesizers and loud rocking drums (a la Killing Joke), eg "The Hanging Garden". It's my favourite Cure LP of all time, but probably because of the overt New Order references.

Oh, and In Between Days, released by the Cure when they cheered up in 1985, doesn't steal the guitar riff from Dreams Never End at all :happytongue:

I can remember Robert Smith used to have the odd moan about New Order in interviews in the mid 80s. I guess he saw them as bitter alternative/indie rivals. (Hey! why can't we all just get along?). But he did lift greatly from "Dreams Never End" for "Inbetween Days" but then New Order have pinched the bassline from "A Forest" for "This Time Of Night" and again! for "Crystal". I've got some old Cure live tape that I remember they start playing "She's Lost Control" riffs in the middle of "A Forest" and it works rather well. The Cure must have a grudging bit of respect as I see they've recently covered "Love Will Tear Us Apart". Not sure about Depeche Mode, I think they got more influenced by Euro/industrial bands as they went on and lederhosen boutiques.

Originally posted by HaciendaThat I can remember Robert Smith used to have the odd moan about New Order in interviews in the mid 80s. I guess he saw them as bitter alternative/indie rivals. (Hey! why can't we all just get along?). But he did lift greatly from "Dreams Never End" for "Inbetween Days" but then New Order have pinched the bassline from "A Forest" for "This Time Of Night" and again! for "Crystal". I've got some old Cure live tape that I remember they start playing "She's Lost Control" riffs in the middle of "A Forest" and it works rather well. The Cure must have a grudging bit of respect as I see they've recently covered "Love Will Tear Us Apart". Not sure about Depeche Mode, I think they got more influenced by Euro/industrial bands as they went on and lederhosen boutiques.

The Cure/Robert Smith are HUGE Joy Division fans. the song The Holy Hour (off of the Faith LP) is actually dedicated to Ian Curtis.

i actually don't see the three bands as particularly related. i SO do not think that The Cure ripped off New Order - except, of course, on Inbetween Days. i mean, The Cure's sound is generally entirely different from New Order's, and i frankly think that it's ridiculous to call them a rip-off of New Order. in all honesty, The Cure's catalogue is much more diverse than New Order's, and there's really no correlation between the two. the only Cure LP that really sounded at all like New Order was Japanese Whispers, which was still entirely different. Pornography sounds more like Joy Division than Movement to me.

and Depeche Mode is still completely different, as well. they're a straight synth pop band, and are unique in their own way.

i think it's ridiculous for anyone to say that any of the three bands consistently "ripped off" either of the other two. they're all very original, excellent bands with fresh sounds that have been very highly influential. New Order is my favorite of the three, but i actually think that The Cure is the most creative, overall.

The Cure and JD/NO are related bands, but I don't think they copy each other, they have just similar approaches to music. What I think they've done is influenced each other. Depeche Mode sound more different.

New Order's music seems much more of a steady progression whereas The Cure radicly changed styles every 2 albums or so. That was probably due in part to their line-up changing so much. "Three Imaginary Boys" sounds nothing like "Faith" sounds nothing like "The Top" sounds nothing like "Disintegration". Mentioning "Japanese Whispers" above did put a light bulb above my head: was "The Walk" not the most obvious rip-off of "Blue Monday" ever? Don't want to slag off The Cure as they were still great despite the occasional rip-off. I saw them on "This Is Dom Joly" the other week and they seem to have lost their way a bit in middle age mediocrity. It really is sad to see Robert Smith still doing the lipstick and hedge-backwards hair at his age but what a great back catalogue.

was "The Walk" not the most obvious rip-off of "Blue Monday" ever?

Absolutely - I was racking my brain last night trying to think what the other obvious rip off was, aside from "Inbetween Days". Yes, "The Walk" came out a couple of months after Monday, and was just Hairy Bob and Mad Bad Lol Tolhurst on keyboards - cracking tune, it has to be said.

And I agree - cracking back catalogue :)

Originally posted by clayts > was "The Walk" not the most obvious rip-off of "Blue Monday" ever?Absolutely - I was racking my brain last night trying to think what the other obvious rip off was, aside from "Inbetween Days". Yes, "The Walk" came out a couple of months after Monday, and was just Hairy Bob and Mad Bad Lol Tolhurst on keyboards - cracking tune, it has to be said.And I agree - cracking back catalogue :)

I think "Just Like Heaven" was a rip off too. Anyone agree?

Originally posted by Marco X > Originally posted by clayts> > > > was "The Walk" not the most obvious rip-off of "Blue Monday" ever?> > > > Absolutely - I was racking my brain last night trying to think what the other obvious rip off was, aside from "Inbetween Days". Yes, "The Walk" came out a couple of months after Monday, and was just Hairy Bob and Mad Bad Lol Tolhurst on keyboards - cracking tune, it has to be said.> > And I agree - cracking back catalogue :)

I think "Just Like Heaven" was a rip off too. Anyone agree? rip-off of what?

Originally posted by film586 > Originally posted by Marco X> > > > Originally posted by clayts> > > > > > > was "The Walk" not the most obvious rip-off of "Blue Monday" ever?> > > > > > > > Absolutely - I was racking my brain last night trying to think what the other obvious rip off was, aside from "Inbetween Days". Yes, "The Walk" came out a couple of months after Monday, and was just Hairy Bob and Mad Bad Lol Tolhurst on keyboards - cracking tune, it has to be said.> > > > And I agree - cracking back catalogue :)>

I think "Just Like Heaven" was a rip off too. Anyone agree? rip-off of what?

The sound!! First time I heard "In Between Days" and "Just Like Heaven" I thought they both were NO until Smith started singing. I thought the same thing when I heard the intro to "Regret". Imagine my surprise when Barney started singing and that it was NO!

Well if your a self-righteous indie-twat wanker (or your an NME journalist) you would agree that The Cure and Depeche Mode were sad immitators of New Order.

Anyways, all 3 are great groups in their own different ways. If you go to a DM forum, you hear the same crap about New Order, and im sure its the same on a Cure forum.

The main common theme between the bands - all contemporaties of each other and all had a fair bit of gloom in their music in the 80s.

Anyways DM are not a straight up synth group - their last 3 albums definitely arent (even if I think the most recent one is no good). But the 2 proceeding it Songs of Faith and Devotion and Ultra, are 2 of the best albums of the 90s IMO.

Cheers ALEX

Originally posted by Alex Jacks WeAnyways DM are not a straight up synth group - their last 3 albums definitely arent (even if I think the most recent one is no good). But the 2 proceeding it Songs of Faith and Devotion and Ultra, are 2 of the best albums of the 90s IMO.CheersALEX

i'm sorry, i should have made it clear that i meant pre-SOFAD Depeche Mode.

i love SOFAD, too. and It's No Good is one of my favorite late 90's singles.

Originally posted by Marco X > Originally posted by film586> > > > Originally posted by Marco X> > > > > > > Originally posted by clayts> > > > > > > > > > was "The Walk" not the most obvious rip-off of "Blue Monday" ever?> > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely - I was racking my brain last night trying to think what the other obvious rip off was, aside from "Inbetween Days". Yes, "The Walk" came out a couple of months after Monday, and was just Hairy Bob and Mad Bad Lol Tolhurst on keyboards - cracking tune, it has to be said.> > > > > > And I agree - cracking back catalogue :)> > >

I think "Just Like Heaven" was a rip off too. Anyone agree? rip-off of what?

The sound!! First time I heard "In Between Days" and "Just Like Heaven" I thought they both were NO until Smith started singing. I thought the same thing when I heard the intro to "Regret". Imagine my surprise when Barney started singing and that it was NO! hmm. i always felt that the sound on Just Like Heaven and Inbetween Days was very uniquely The Cure's. but i see your point!

Robert Smith actually said that the rip-off that was "In Between Days" was deliberate. He'd heard "Sunrise" - the intro of which is a rip of "A Forest" - and decided to do his own version of a New Order song, "Dreams Never End" as a kind of jokey riposte. Hope that clears something up - but I agree with what you say about "The Walk", and the "Faith" album is a second division "Closer".

The Just Like Heaven rip-off is actually the other way round - NO ripped it off for All The Way. I heard somewhere before that there was a kind of an in-joke going on here - think it may have been Hooky said it. He has openly admitted ripping off the bassline of 10:15 Saturday Night too.

Who cares anyway? All this has given us some great JD/NO music (and Cure music for those who like them), and surely that's what matters most? Dunno where people are getting DM from here though - totally different ballgame.

One person's rip-off is another person's tribute.....

The Cure and Joy Division were treading the same boards in the early days, and have shared an audience to a certain extent ever since.

I don't hear many people accusing the Bunnymen of being Velvets ripoff merchants, Nirvana of being Husker Du ripoff merchants.....

I remember in '89 Steve & Gillian were doing an interview on the old CFNY radio statioin here in Toronto and Steve took a pretty good stab at The Cure for ripping of several New Order songs. I know i have the tape on that interview somewhere, I'll try and dig it out. It was a pretty funny interview.

Originally posted by mh The Just Like Heaven rip-off is actually the other way round - NO ripped it off for All The Way. I heard somewhere before that there was a kind of an in-joke going on here - think it may have been Hooky said it. He has openly admitted ripping off the bassline of 10:15 Saturday Night too.Who cares anyway? All this has given us some great JD/NO music (and Cure music for those who like them), and surely that's what matters most? Dunno where people are getting DM from here though - totally different ballgame.

You could also say that the descending guitar riff in Just Like Heaven is influenced by the guitar lines in Leave Me Alone.

I think "Just Like Heaven" was a rip off too. Anyone agree? rip-off of what?

"All the way" was a rip-off of "just like heaven".

I seem to remember Hooky saying he'd had people come up to him saying "Way of Life" (from Brotherhood) was a rip off of "LWTUA" !!! NO ripping off themselves...

Weird experience on the train today (listened to PCL, Lowlife and first half of Brotherwhood in one go) - there is a tiny tiny scrap of a LWTUA riff right at the end of Way of Life which I'd never ever noticed before : anyone else spotted it !

Perhaps the most controversial of this is that New Order accuses Depeche Mode of plagiarising the 8-beat from True Faith for Enjoy the Silence. Just play the two off and the argument is compelling. Beyond that, while New Order enjoys cred and acclaim from critics, there is bound to be some jealousy about how DM's sound has evolved while New Order's is essentially unchanged.

Beyond that, while New Order enjoys cred and acclaim from critics, there is bound to be some jealousy about how DM's sound has evolved while New Order's is essentially unchanged.

Which explains why Dead Souls, Ceremony, Fine Time and Here to Stay all sound the same.

Originally posted by Spotnick I've never seen that topic discussed here... Well, two bands of their time having similar ideas, just like 80% of the 80's hits sounds like Blue Monday!

Yeah, if you keep relating bands that sound one like the other you will never stop! X band is related to Y band, that was influenced by another band, that copied the idea from the band Z...

I could say BM is as a NO version of Being Boiled, cause they are very similar (IMHO).

Originally posted by cold streets, great town... > Originally posted by Spotnick> I've never seen that topic discussed here... > > Well, two bands of their time having similar ideas, just like 80% of the 80's hits sounds like Blue Monday!>

Yeah, if you keep relating bands that sound one like the other you will never stop! X band is related to Y band, that was influenced by another band, that copied the idea from the band Z...

I could say BM is as a NO version of Being Boiled, cause they are very similar (IMHO).

I don´t think so.

All three bands are as guilty as fuck of ripping each other off - not just through the songs... but also through their one word album titles: Movement, Violator, Faith, Exciter, Disintegration, Pornography, Substance, Technique, Republic...... need I go on? ;)

I think part of the problem here in the UK (especially the music press) is that the moment a band start using synthesizers, they're labelled as "sounding like New Order" or the Pet Shop Boys.

I guess it's cause they were the first bands to really expand on synth-based pop and rocks songs, but its often lazy journalism: no one says every band with an electric guitar sounds like The Rolling Stones, but a lot of influences always come from whatever band did it first.

We have loads of dodgy Indie bands coming and going every few months - most of whom are just another cliched pastiche of what Oasis did almost ten years ago - but no one yacks on about them "sounding like Oasis". I think there's just a slight prejudice against anyone using technology.

In a small way, any band that uses synths, sequencers and guitars is going to have a little bit of Depeche Mode and New Order about them, whether heavily disguised or not, but there are marked differences between all these bands if you look beneath the chord changes they're using or the patches on their synths.

Andy.

Originally posted by Harold Aranda Perhaps the most controversial of this is that New Order accuses Depeche Mode of plagiarising the 8-beat from True Faith for Enjoy the Silence. Just play the two off and the argument is compelling. Beyond that, while New Order enjoys cred and acclaim from critics, there is bound to be some jealousy about how DM's sound has evolved while New Order's is essentially unchanged.

What exactly are you referring to by "8 beat"? I've never notice any similarity in the songs, other than a similar BPM ('Silence' something like 113, 'True Faith' approx 117).

Andy.