Cure and Depeche Mode copied NO?

Originally posted by clayts There is a tiny tiny scrap of a LWTUA riff right at the end of Way of Life which I'd never ever noticed before : anyone else spotted it !

Yeah, I'd always picked up on that as a little musical reference to Joy Division.

The Cure/New Order ripping off thing just reminds me of those "reply" records that often get done in R&B and rap music - you wouldn't do them unless you liked the original track/artist, as usually the reply record has a musical sample/reference to the original record.

I'm sure The Cure are big New Order fans, and they share a similar sound because the eighties was a time when tracks had lots of digital delay and reverb on them, and producers were using similar tricks on a lot of bands.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Andy.

Originally posted by Mr Discography > Originally posted by clayts> There is a tiny tiny scrap of a LWTUA riff right at the end of Way of Life which I'd never ever noticed before : anyone else spotted it !

Yeah,I head mentioned here before.The guitar notes are the same as LWTUA.I agree with everything you said.

From the standpoint of who the people are...New Order have been very good over the years at writing back to their fans in their own hand writing. I have several replies from them. Now one might say that Cure and DM were on more tours and received much more fanzine mail...but DM & The Cure (which I have all the albums and love the music...except for the last 2 DM's that were quite sad). Okay...the point is that NO and their music is very different, very deep, the fans are very loyal, and I see no real connection to the two bands. One of several reasons I believe this are the fantastic cords of Hooky's bass differ so from DM's (all electronic)and that of The Cures Simon Gallup (and others). New Order is still New Order and prior to that JD, The Cure and DM are not constant. (Okay DM fans...do you know the original DM lineup?) The audiences all vary, even though the "alternative sound" is a constant, NO/JD/Revenge are like old rock and roll...here to stay. The Cure set out to be dark and Goth, DM appealed to the teenie boopers (sorry) and clubbers (great dance tunes).

There is a far far more obvious reason why the very mention of the name Depeche Mode creates such snorts of derision from a lot of purists here - and that is simply because of their early dodgy frilly-shirt lightweight synthypop past. In Britain, that is the sole reason a lot of people have never taken them seriously (inverted snobbery if you like) and then - in these same people's eyes - to start even comparing them with New Order (or indeed the Cure) is basically adding insult to injury.

Okay - so Depeche WERE shite for their first few singles and albums, but at least they started to develop and change their sound, becoming a much stronger band. Some people find it hard to forgive and forget - hence this seemingly petty grudge they harbour against them.

Anyway - who here is going to be checking out Dave Gahan's first ever SOLO stint when he plays Manchester's MOVE festival this coming July at Old Trafford?

All three bands, while sharing a few commonalities, are essentially quite different. i refuse to elaborate, as it could take a while.

All three bands, while sharing a few commonalities, are essentially quite different. i refuse to elaborate, as it could take a while.

Here are the differences: The Cure make decent music, DM makes good music, and NO makes great music. nuff said

Is Dave going to do an acapella show then?

Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > All three bands, while sharing a few commonalities, are essentially quite different. i refuse to elaborate, as it could take a while. > Here are the differences: The Cure make decent music, DM makes good music, and NO makes great music. nuff said

Well, for the sake of personal bias, I'd rate Depeche as mostly decent, NO as largely good, and The Cure as simple greatness. But those are hardly objective differences, right?

Originally posted by Chase Is Dave going to do an acapella show then?

Yes, because all solo artists tour without any accompanying musicians

I can listen to every NO album without cringing. i cannot do that with the Cure or DM. I have every Cure lp and saw them in concert. A great show. But ask me to listen to BloodFlowers again and I'd punch you. My DM collection is small because they aint my cup of tea. A few good tunes--Everything Counts and Route 66 among others--but a lot of shiate.

The real NO thief--Clan of Xymox. Listen to the Stranger. Pure Blue Monday rip off saved only because they are ESL.

Then again, Doubts Even Here is another tune stolen from Xymox or the other way around. I need to check dates.

BKP: Solo artists are usually songwriters at least. Dave didn't even write lyrics (at least up until I stopped paying attention to them). Maybe he was just really frustrated that Martin never let him have a go...

Ronny Moorings was a big fan of New Order and the fact that Xymox sound(ed) like them was at least partly intentional. And Movement predates anything they did by a few years.

Dave has not written anything for a DM album correct. But he has written this solo one.

Cheers ALEX

I think alot of the blame for the comparisons come from American fans. Back in the 80s all these groups like The Cure, NO, DM, would get lumped together because they would be played on the same college stations as one another, usually had the same fanbase, and all three became mega popular stateside at around the same time. I remember a few weeks ago I was talking music with a girl at a party and was discussing how I like bands like NO, The Cure, DM, The Smiths, U2, Echo & The Bunnymen, The Psychedelic Furs, etc. She was like "So you like 80s music." Which is a comment that pisses me off because when you think of 80s music you think of all those crappy hair metal and new wave bands. They're just victims of their time, being great bands that came out in a period full of crap. Also the fact that they all come from the same region in the world, they get lumped together even though most have very little to do with another.

The Cure: Yes. Depeche Mode: No.

Dave Gahan's single is great. Not unlike DM, in fact...

Originally posted by Chris Guevara I can listen to every NO album without cringing. i cannot do that with the Cure or DM. I have every Cure lp and saw them in concert. A great show. But ask me to listen to BloodFlowers again and I'd punch you. My DM collection is small because they aint my cup of tea. A few good tunes--Everything Counts and Route 66 among others--but a lot of shiate.The real NO thief--Clan of Xymox. Listen to the Stranger. Pure Blue Monday rip off saved only because they are ESL.

NO-copyists or not, I love the Clan. Having said that, Stranger only steals BM's drum intro... as 245667 other bands did!

Depeche Mode for me is called : Martin Gore + Vince Clarke, the rest bull sh**

Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart Depeche Mode for me is called : Martin Gore + Vince Clarke, the rest bull sh**

Never heard of Alan Wilder, I take it?

Without Alan Wilder, Depeche Mode would probably still be re-writing "Ring o Ring o Roses" on cheap casio synths.

Who cares? KW1 hardly disguises its origins and if we are looking at "rip-offs", Divines Love Reaction is possibly the best version of Blue Monday in existence.

how many times must we see this here??????????

This is not a rip-off but, perhaps there are some parallels between New Order/Factory, Mode/Mute.

Yes?/No?/I'm a fookin idiot?

Actually my two favourite albums in 1980 were Closer and 17 Seconds, in 1981 they were Movement & Faith. So for me JD/NO and The Cure were certainly related. They were both part of the post-punk movement along with PIL, The Banshees, Killing Joke, Wire, Josef K, The Raincoats, etc. Later on as NO became more poppy and The Cure became a bit of a parody of themselves, it became more difficult to see the link but they certainly diverged from roughly the same area.

Also, 'Alternative' is not an American term, in 1976/77 the charts in the music papers which showed just the good punky type songs were known as the alternative charts. It was effectively the Indie charts before the term Indie was born.

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