omg! omg!
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So, the theory that Run Wild is geared to the female ear is disputed by maria. I agree, Run Wild is SHIT(E). In fact, I have determined that Barney is the Weakest Link in New Order and needs to either get his shit together and write a decent lyric or they need to sack him and do instrumentals from here on out. In live situations its almost always Barney who fucks up, dances stupidly and ruins our favorites with Whoops and Whistles. Does a lovely number like Atmosphere need whoops? If you watch PFD it's Barney who ruins the performance in places. Now with his rhyming dictionary (must be the pocket version) he cant write a decent song. Get Ready fails only in the lyrical content of the songs and not the music. Barney must be warned. I realize he has never been a great lyricist but things have gone too far with Slow Jam and Run Wild.
Originally posted by brian geoghagan So, the theory that Run Wild is geared to the female ear is disputed by maria. I agree, Run Wild is SHIT(E). In fact, I have determined that Barney is the Weakest Link in New Order and needs to either get his shit together and write a decent lyric or they need to sack him and do instrumentals from here on out. In live situations its almost always Barney who fucks up, dances stupidly and ruins our favorites with Whoops and Whistles. Does a lovely number like Atmosphere need whoops? If you watch PFD it's Barney who ruins the performance in places. Now with his rhyming dictionary (must be the pocket version) he cant write a decent song. Get Ready fails only in the lyrical content of the songs and not the music. Barney must be warned. I realize he has never been a great lyricist but things have gone too far with Slow Jam and Run Wild.
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Are you serious?? As if he(Barney) gives a shit.
Holy fuck ?!?!?!
What can I respond to that ?
Maybe just that NO is a hole and isn't NO if one of them is not there. I mean, in a way, Gillian is still there, at the gigs, as Phil plays the same parts, she helped creating.
Originally posted by brian geoghagan So, the theory that Run Wild is geared to the female ear is disputed by maria. I agree, Run Wild is SHIT(E). In fact, I have determined that Barney is the Weakest Link in New Order and needs to either get his shit together and write a decent lyric or they need to sack him and do instrumentals from here on out. In live situations its almost always Barney who fucks up, dances stupidly and ruins our favorites with Whoops and Whistles. Does a lovely number like Atmosphere need whoops? If you watch PFD it's Barney who ruins the performance in places. Now with his rhyming dictionary (must be the pocket version) he cant write a decent song. Get Ready fails only in the lyrical content of the songs and not the music. Barney must be warned. I realize he has never been a great lyricist but things have gone too far with Slow Jam and Run Wild.
Heh! If you read my post where I (quite thouroughly) reviewed Get Ready, you would see that I quite often complained about Barney's part in the song. It's quite amazing that he actually claims to have written Crystal (a great song), but he completely ruins other songs with his lyrics (or singing for that matter!) This has not always been the case, though. I seem to have started thinking like this ever since Twisted Tenderness. Now, I tend to think that Hooky is more responsible for the "New Order sound" than Barney.
I have to add that I'm not completely slagging Barney off... I may sound a bit harsh, and that wasn't really the intention...
He rhymes "forgotten" with "autumn" That has the mark of genius written all over it! (I'm not being sarcastic here..)
After last night at Brixton they can play "paper and combs" and sing thru straws,I'll still buy everything . To be honest,who really gives a flying one about the ability to rhyme lyrics.Certain people are missing the point about the band,their history,what they're about ,the way they did things,etc. Take it or leave it ,its no good phrophecising about it.
Originally posted by Maria > > > Now, I tend to think that Hooky is more responsible for the "New Order sound" than Barney.
Er...I thought there were four people in the band,and that each one contributes to the overall sound. Stephen's drumming,Hooky's bass,Gillian's keyboards and Barney's singing/guitar.All are equal .
id be the first to say that get readys lyrics are generally a load of old twaddle, and not in the charming way that the lyrics on, say lowlife were...
as for barney being the weakest link, well thats judging the poor sod too harshly i reckon. my knowledge of NO isnt incredibly in depth, but ive always got the impression that a lot, if not most, of the ideas (both the good and bad ones) come from barney. i even read an interview with hooky were he pointed out that his distinctive bass sound was actually barneys idea.
being a vocalist and lyricist is going to be a lot more demanding than being a bassist, particularly if youre not extroverted or dont feel like you have any message for the world. with every new order record barney has to put more of himself on the line, so to speak, than hooky or gillian or steve; its his contribution that i think can make or break a new order record.so if he underperforms, as he has with get ready, it can ruin the record. but saying that, i suppose a lot of ppl would say that the lack of hooky bass ruins republic...and of course barney`s rapping, i shudder just thinking about it...
Originally posted by Maria Heh! If you read my post where I (quite thouroughly) reviewed Get Ready, you would see that I quite often complained about Barney's part in the song. It's quite amazing that he actually claims to have written Crystal (a great song), but he completely ruins other songs with his lyrics (or singing for that matter!) This has not always been the case, though. I seem to have started thinking like this ever since Twisted Tenderness.Now, I tend to think that Hooky is more responsible for the "New Order sound" than Barney.I have to add that I'm not completely slagging Barney off... I may sound a bit harsh, and that wasn't really the intention...
In 1999, Barney said he was a happy person and had no problem to write on at that point of time. He maybe lost his way writing inspiration came out and he has (or had) been written about himself all the time. (There's some exceptional cases like 1963) It seems like that his some great writing like Dream attack probably mirrored his unhappiness....
But why should we think someone of New Order does more than the onthers do?
(For me, writing is very hard thing..)
Barney is an essential part of neworder without a doubt, but he has ruined a few good songs with shit lyrics. think about the possibility of neworder with great lyrics. sounds interesting no? i mainly enjoy listening to instrumental electronic music but i love neworder's sound. i'd like to see a little lyrical improvement, thats all. Dream Attack is beautiful and in fact most everthing before DA has good lyrics but......it's healthy to not worship every aspect of a band . neworder are human and that is a large part of their appeal but i could live with 10 tracks per album (6 Vocal) (4 Instrumental)
despite all its failings, republic really did have some wonderful lyrics. with a bit more melody,less production sheen, no rapping from barney and a less housey feel, it really couldve been a brilliant album. with get ready they seemed to have injected the missing melody and energy from republic, but got the lyrics badly wrong. i cant fathom the idea of new order as a good time band(rock the shack), or a sentimental band(run wild), so maybe its just my problem. anyway behind closed doors has pretty good lyrics, so there`s hope that with a litle more focus and crucially IMAGINATION barney might abandon his use of such trite and cliched lyrics...and stop using so many bloody rhymes cos its getting annoying.
You have to keep in mind that Barney didn't have to write songs until after Ian died, mainly because no one else could or would. Unlike Ian, Barney didn't have lyrics laying around that he had written since his early teens. He's not the world's greatest lyric writer, but he has hit the mark on several occassions (AOC, Perfect Kiss, True Faith, etc etc). He may very well have run out of steam, but his bandmates sure haven't. New Order is a band, Barney is the lead singer but he's not the only factor in their musical development.
how do you ruin a good song with "shit lyrics"???? would a certain song be better with different words???? have you ever tried to write a song? you could take an excellent song, rewrite the words & it could,(probably would, because the words made that song), make that song shit. good song/bad song, its not an "if you changed this,or that" topic. i.e.- when good songs go bad.
I will reply to your responses and also explain what I meant with "the NO-sound". But now I have to rush off to school, so I'll explain myself in a few hours or so...
Run Wild is fucking moving.
You all mention RW's lyrics but, to me, there's a line that's absolutely amazing, because it's so full of hope, I mean, true hope...
"Good imes are 'round the corner... I swear it's getting warmer".
Just wonderful.
IMHO, to dissect one single component of NO is utterly redundant. As the solo projects have shown, NO sound best as a band, not as isolated components. To say one member 'ruins' a song shows a fairly shallow approach to appreciating their music. Fair enough if you think a certain song is, on the whole, crap (others have said RW here, but I strongly disagree), but don't pretend to know why the NO sound doesn't work sometimes. After all, if you could do better, why don't you and we'll judge your efforts?
6 vocal 4 instrumental
that way bernard doesn't get to stretched for words
if you're not sure how "shit lyrics" can ruin a good song listen to Slow Jam again.
i can't believe u r slagging off barney - after all he only took over the singing role after ian because no one else could sing and play at the same time as for his silly dancing and whistles - that's what live peformances are all about if u don't like it - stay at home and listen to the CDs
Sorry Brian, i have to disagree on your scathing remarks re: Barney. I agree with Taboo#7, Barney started out just being the guitar player, and a damn fine one at that. He certainly is not the most charismatic of the 4, but I think that musically, he is the creative genius behind the band. The side projects show how they are on their own, barney is really the only one who achieved significant success without the others, but thank god they realize that there is something that comes out of them when they do New Order that doesn't come out solo.
After all, New Order is a BAND, and like all great bands, there is a certain chemistry when they are together that is greater than the sum of the parts. You have to love them for who they are, accept their imperfections, or otherwise, just listen to something else! Although i agree it is frustrating that they seem forever just on the verge of huge success.
Barney never aspired to be the frontman, he was thrust into the role when Ian (lazy bastard) checked out of this world early; 'cause none of the others could sing worth a damn! Sure, barney is by no means the strongest vocalist around, but so what? Celine Dion and Mariah Carrey are strong vocalists, but who wants to listen to them?
Lyrically, Barney can at times be brilliant. I agree, certain tunes on GR are lyrically cringe-worthy, but then some songs, sooner or later, have a life of their own and take on new meanings. You have to give him credit to be gutsy enough to sing from the bottom of his heart and soul!
I have often wondered what heights New Order would have achieved with a stronger vocalist. If Ian was still around perhaps? Or, they could get guest front vocalists!!! I myself like Turn My Way, one of their strongest tunes on GR IMHO, but I know that you weren't really keen on Billy's contribution. So should they stick to just the 4 of them, or should they look to another vocalist to contribute?
Cheers! :)
You got it in one, now you know why I haven't bothered making the effort to check out New Order live ever since their Brotherhood tour in 1986 - and listening to their BBC Radio One 1987 Glastonbury Live set (that came out in 1992) confirmed my worst fears (just what the fuck was he doing murdering Bizarre Love Triangle like that ferfucksakes!!??!!) . I don't really think they're that good live and yes, Barney prats about too much in attempt to...um..."spice up" his songs. No thanks..... Whoop Whoop Whoop!!!!!!!! WHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by brian geoghagan So, In live situations its almost always Barney who fucks up, dances stupidly and ruins our favorites with Whoops and Whistles. Does a lovely number like Atmosphere need whoops? If you watch PFD it's Barney who ruins the performance in places.
Good points Rob. I do not believe barney should quit neworder nor do i think they need more guest vocalist but they could add a few instrumentals to their albums and it would make for a better "product". If barney writes "cringe worthy" lyrics (and i've heard many others agree with this) why not focus on the music. he is a brilliant musician and his contribution to neworder is as essential as hooky's but for heavens sake, no more ramblings like Slow Jam. he say's he's been listening to neil young alot lately so maybe he'll pick up a few ideas. neworder instrumentals are generally as good as the vocal cuts. no shame in having a few on each album if Barney can't find anything good to say. i love neworder and will continue to buy their music and listen to it endlessly but i would love to see some instrumentals thrown in to alleviate the strain on Barney's rhyming dictionary (perhaps he needs a rhyming thesaurus too)
i remember reading an interview with tim burgess some years ago where he was pretty scathing about barney. cant recall exactly what he said, but it was something along the lines of "i used to love new order...but i dont really anymore..im disappointed with bernard cos he wont grow up". he then went on to use r.e.m as an example of where,in his opinion, new order shouldve been at that stage(this was about 1993/1994). he said something along the lines of.. barney should take a leaf out of michael stipes book... to sum it up he seemed to suggest that barney was an uncharismatic fool..and this from a bloke that says barney was his inspiration to become a singer in the first place..
I'm of the school of thought that REM are well past their prime (barring Imitation of Life and Great Beyond, their best years are behind them), so to say Barney needs to follow Michael Stipe's example is a bit perplexing, even for 93/94. Does that mean he should be sexually ambigious? Friends with Radiohead? Bald? I'm being sarcastic, but seriously, REM were better in their IRS years, to me they haven't done anything quite as compelling. Whether New Order can outdo their Factory catalogue remains to be seen.
REM...New Order....? the spurious comparisons continue: but here's one incontrovertible (oooh, big word!!) fact
- New Order will never ever be as big as REM have been worldwide, so you can't really compare the two.
Sad but very true.
Originally posted by Taboo # 7 I'm of the school of thought that REM are well past their prime (barring Imitation of Life and Great Beyond, their best years are behind them), so to say Barney needs to follow Michael Stipe's example is a bit perplexing, even for 93/94. Does that mean he should be sexually ambigious? Friends with Radiohead? Bald? I'm being sarcastic, but seriously, REM were better in their IRS years, to me they haven't done anything quite as compelling. Whether New Order can outdo their Factory catalogue remains to be seen.
