'Barney's 'Shit' and he should leave New Order?'

Having been away for the weekend I have only just had the opportunity to flick through a couple of threads posted. I'm very surprised and slightly confused at the material written.

In response to the many derogatory remarks at the beautiful song 'Run Wild' from the album 'Getting Things Ready' - I cannot accept that people genuinely think this song is, 'shit'. Really, is it that bad? - Wonderful melodies, inventive - soothing - music, singing by Bernard absolutely hits the spot.. excellent orchestration. Quite excellent use of lyrical content - Barney using Jesus as a metaphor - unquestionably a brave move and yet another NO original moment. His lyrics generally provoke many feelings in a truly unique way. He is unashamed at his openness - deal with it. Perhaps you need to go and play several outstanding tracks made so by Sumner’s creative imagination and powerful use of the English language without resorting to overly clever words.

‘Vanishing Point’ ‘Dream Attack’ ‘True Faith’ ‘Regret’

Barney is crap, his dancing is rubbish, his lyrics are dire and he himself is a hindrance to New Order not a help?!!! - erm, what gives with this? - I wouldn't like to embark on a slagging match to the many people who wrote this but it is tempting. If you do not like Barney for what he is, accordingly, do you really like New Order? Did you really think he isn't a fundamental piece of the jigsaw? - without Barney, there is no New Order. He is as important and influential as Hooky, Steve and Gillian. His recent decision to dance like a clown and wolf whistle to upset everyone throughout the live appearances are just one more addition to the man's genius. He really needs to keep it coming. He has managed to re-invent his live persona with just a few minimal subtleties. Can you not recognise his talent?

Very, very disappointed in several people posting this heinous rubbish, so much so that I’ve laid an egg... in preperation for my tea tonight. (I’m having egg sandwiches).

With mayonnaise?

Recent "Q" article noted that "Run Wild" is about Barney's youngest daughter who apparently has a "serious degenerative illness".

Trust this revelation might get dissenters placing critical knives back in the kitchen draw?

M.

When anyone is brave, that person reveals him or herself in a naked way to the world. I can understand if people don't like the song, that's fine, we all prefer our favourites, but it isn't shit? - nothing they've done is shit? - that's the power and the magic of the band.

It's nice to know it is about his daughter - it makes it more touching and I'll now inform my best girl after we've spent 2 months guessing... wrongly as it now seems.

Originally posted by Old Blue With mayonnaise?

Probably just plain with butter and a pinch of salt. Depends heavily on the size of the egg.

Maybe you could try a little shake of paprika, sophisticated without being ostentatious.

btw, I was under the impression that Run Wild was about Steve and Gillian's daughter.

Originally posted by Huntsman Having been away for the weekend I have only just had the opportunity to flick through a couple of threads posted. I'm very surprised and slightly confused at the material written.In response to the many derogatory remarks at the beautiful song 'Run Wild' from the album 'Getting Things Ready' - I cannot accept that people genuinely think this song is, 'shit'. Really, is it that bad? - Wonderful melodies, inventive - soothing - music, singing by Bernard absolutely hits the spot.. excellent orchestration. Quite excellent use of lyrical content - Barney using Jesus as a metaphor - unquestionably a brave move and yet another NO original moment. His lyrics generally provoke many feelings in a truly unique way. He is unashamed at his openness - deal with it. Perhaps you need to go and play several outstanding tracks made so by Sumner’s creative imagination and powerful use of the English language without resorting to overly clever words.‘Vanishing Point’‘Dream Attack’‘True Faith’‘Regret’Barney is crap, his dancing is rubbish, his lyrics are dire and he himself is a hindrance to New Order not a help?!!! - erm, what gives with this? - I wouldn't like to embark on a slagging match to the many people who wrote this but it is tempting. If you do not like Barney for what he is, accordingly, do you really like New Order? Did you really think he isn't a fundamental piece of the jigsaw? - without Barney, there is no New Order. He is as important and influential as Hooky, Steve and Gillian. His recent decision to dance like a clown and wolf whistle to upset everyone throughout the live appearances are just one more addition to the man's genius. He really needs to keep it coming. He has managed to re-invent his live persona with just a few minimal subtleties. Can you not recognise his talent?Very, very disappointed in several people posting this heinous rubbish, so much so that I’ve laid an egg... in preperation for my tea tonight.(I’m having egg sandwiches).

Huntsy, tell me who said these things and I shall avenge my brothers...

Originally posted by Old Blue Maybe you could try a little shake of paprika, sophisticated without being ostentatious.btw, I was under the impression that Run Wild was about Steve and Gillian's daughter.

It is.

Ah well, I apologise for misinformation. Is this 'cos I'm dim or is the "Q" article at fault here. If it's the former, then the factual content of my earlier message can be scrubbed but the sentiment remains the same.

M.

i can't believe people r slagging off barney - so what if his dancin is a bit dodgy - i saw hookey with revenge once and he was even worse - he was like somethin out of spinal tap so leave barney alone - without him NO would be crap and run wild is a fantastic song

Most of the most hurtful material can be viewed within the 'omg omg' thread.

God be with you my friends.

Originally posted by Huntsman In response to the many derogatory remarks at the beautiful song 'Run Wild' from the album 'Getting Things Ready' - I cannot accept that people genuinely think this song is, 'shit'. Really, is it that bad? - Wonderful melodies, inventive - soothing - music, singing by Bernard absolutely hits the spot.. excellent orchestration. Quite excellent use of lyrical content - Barney using Jesus as a metaphor - unquestionably a brave move and yet another NO original moment.

OK Huntsy, I admit the song is not shite, in fact the more I hear it the more I am growing to love it, just like the rest of the album. Getting Things Ready is definately an excellent album, and getting better by the day, even Rotten Shag! As for the toss pots having a completely unfounded go at the boy wonder, Bernard to his mother, you can all go and FUCK OFF. Barney was, is, and always will be, THE vital driving force in New Order, so go and bury yourselves back in your Travis shite and dont come back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we're seeing the true New Order fans in this thread.

Martin, I think I owe you an apology. I've just re-read my previous post and it sounds a bit terse.

Sorry, didn't mean to come across as a know-all!

Barney has always been the sound creator in the band - it was him who got Hooky's bass up front in the first place (may even have got Ian's varispeed that was credited to Martin Hannett). He is a creative genius, and has evolved from a shy frontman (as so ably demonstrated on Taras Shevchenko) to a pissed/wasted bundle of life leading from the front that we now see. OK, not all his lyrics are Betjemen, but you can't help be touched by the naked truth that is in so many of them, and the really clever use of words.

So he can't dance ? So fucking what ?

Huntsy, when you reach the grand total of 1000 posts, will you become a Member of the Movement?

Originally posted by Huntsman Most of the most hurtful material can be viewed within the 'omg omg' thread.God be with you my friends.

I condemn the omg omg thread.

If I complain about New Order it's not because I don't like them and don't think that they should make music or something like that. A 'bad' New Order song is still 10.000 times better than most crap on the charts. It's just that sometimes, I think this and that song could have been so much better "if only..." etc. If I think a New Order song is bad (or 'shit' as I put it, maybe sounds too harsh. the problem maybe is that, in my own language, that is not a very strong word) it's because I love NO very much and I off course want everything they do to be perfect.

I definately don't think that he should leave New Order or something like that. That's something I have been worried about from day 1 that they announced that they had decided to reform the group. I'm still worried that they will split up. That would be awful, because I want them to keep on making music and keep on being New Order. And if they split up before 18 Nov, that will mean that I will never ever get the chance to see them live! I don't even want to think about it!

I know I started the omg! omg! thread, and I meant to clarify some things I wrote, but there were so many things said there, that I felt I hadn't the time to do it. Someone (I think Rob?) wrote something I really agreed with, I will look it up again because I'm not sure what was said, and who said it.

I would like to add, that I think Barney has written some of the most fantastic lyrics there are (esp. on Brotherhood and Technique). And I've never complained about his dancing! I love the dancing!

And: I fully agree that New Order is a band, and that everyone in that band has their equal part in how it is going to sound etc. I said that I though Hooky was more responsible? Well next day I might as well say that Barney has more part in how they sound. It has to do with what you recognise as "New Order" when you listen to the music. Hearing "Brutal" for the first time, it was obvious that "this is New Order". What made me think that? I can only speculate, because I don't think it was a typical NO-song up till that point (if I may say that, I know some people disagree). Was it that I heard Bernard's voice? Was it the lyrics? Was it the music/guitars/bass? It's quite obvious that it all together as a whole makes it "New Order", but if I were to pick something that stands out more than the other, something that *I* like more (yes, it's possible to like something more), then it would probably be the bass... I find (for some reason) Monaco to be closer to New Order's sound than Electronic, Other Two or Revenge. Is it OK for me to think this? It seems not, judging from the remarks in previous discussion.

Jarvo... without doubt New Order function properly only as ONE complete unit, (I'm sure Gillian will have had lots of input on the latest album even if she didn't record it... well, I'm sure she attended several sessions). Split that unit up and you get one horrid mess from several different directions, often referred to as the 'side projects' - which is another discussion (please, nobody start one).

This thread is in response to the 'omg omg' thread which seemed to focus on a lot of bad will toward Barney. Sos, but I couldn't sit here and idly let it drift by without some resistance.

Originally posted by Phac21 Huntsy, when you reach the grand total of 1000 posts, will you become a Member of the Movement?

I was kind of hoping I would attain 'Member with Extensive Poultry Knowledge' - but perhaps that was wishful thinking.

NEW ORDER is NEW ORDER due to the four people who have made it! And Bernard is a @#%!ing important part of it.

His dance? Try to do it yourself... you never manage to do it his way! It's so special

The lyrics? GREAT (I admit that I am not a native speaker, so that helps). Mysterious, and flexible (text may change from time to time, haha).

The MUSIC? SuperFantastic. Same applies to Run Wild, it's so beautiful.... and the lyrics? Well, maybe we will never understand what they mean? So what?

New Order, thank you for all this.

JJ

Basically I feel like I must also stick up for good ol' Bernard in the performance stakes but I'm starting to find his lyrical style is wearing thin ie how he finds it compulsory to rhyme nearly every line. To be fair its as important as Hooks high octave bass lines and Morris's dance beats that create NO's trademark sound. But now and then (when the music isn't as good) it gives the impression of a lazy composer doing the "I was high up in the sky" routine just to fit meaningless words to the music.

However this said, I love "Get Ready" and I'm a massive Electronic fan (I will wait paitently for there next disc LOL) I actually even like "Slow Jam" which has been slated in some threads. The line ending in "it beats Arithmetic" is a classic in my book. It takes me back to my horrid schooldays in an amusing fashion - as far as Barney is concerned it might have simply been written just to rhyme with the last line (who knows!?) In summation (sorry to pretend to be posh - I'm from ooop North!) the rhyming criticism I have with Barney still doesn't explain why I think the guy is a fantastic front man and how NO are one of the best bands still around today.

To me he seems slightly akward as a front man owing to the fact that he seems not to be terribly outgoing (unlike Mr Hook). This contrast works really well on stage and is what makes New Order such an unusal band. I was interested to read in another thread that he was apparently inspired by Mr Shy himself: Michael Stipe to become a front man in the first place after Curtis's death. In my book Barny gets full marks as Stipe is the best front man in the world! (says little old me anyways) his dancing is compeltely fab and unique and as far the "whoops" and whistles - he was doing that way back in Electronic even on the studio versions!

Lyrics have never reallly been Barney's strong suit. If you take the lyrics by tmeselves on a page, no music, some just are incomprehensible. But add the music, and you've got something approaching greatness. Barney's been there from the beginning, so I would be surprised that people would call for his dimissal (as I believe the omg thread degenerated into). New Order are Barney, Hooky, Gillian, Stephen, with the spectors of Ian and Gretton. You lose one of those components, it's not New Order anymore, just like there could never be a Joy Division w/o Ian, Beatles w/o John Lennon, Nirvana w/o Cobain, etc etc.

Originally posted by Allen Jarvis BTW, Maria, I take it you're doing the Cirkus gig? Did you know they've got 'Holiday On Ice' on at the same venue, and that the band won't be on till midnight, and with no support and apparently the venue could still be pretty chilly in there!

What a rather sureal venue.Just imagine,it could be : New Order On Ice. Listen to the band and watch some scantily clad ice skaters whiz round and fall over.Great stuff ;)

Originally posted by Allen Jarvis BTW, Maria, I take it you're doing the Cirkus gig? Did you know they've got 'Holiday On Ice' on at the same venue, and that the band won't be on till midnight, and with no support and apparently the venue could still be pretty chilly in there!

And I thought that Steps doing Blue Monday was bizarre. So *that's* why the concert starts so late! I hope it won't make the concert shorter in time... It's a sunday.. I'm glad I don't have to go to school/work next day! :)

I consider Barneys lyrics to be phenomanal, (spelling!?) and his voice incredibly emotive when called upon (as it is when it was,run wild) its not always about using long complicated flows to get the message accross, and being enigmatic and going off slightly at a tanget is subjectivly an even more powerful way of delivering lyrics as it lets the listner take away so much more because they can read into lyrics and relate to them so much more closely at a personal level.

"And I'd cry out in my loneliness While you sleep in your peace But you'll never see my face again While I need words like these"

"Now you must decide What good's a lie when you've nothing to hide Maps they'll never show They're dumb like you, they never know It's time we said goodbye Bury your head and silence your cry Know the feel of pain Join our world and play our game"

and so so many more, vanishing point, special,ruined in a day,vicious streak.. you know theres too many to mention.

I personally think that some of Barney's most sublime musical moments have come out of Electronic - but thats another story....

ps: massive respect to everyone that cheered Steven Morris at the Brixton gigs - the mans one of the best drummers in the world and often gets overlooked at the back of the stage but he got a huge well deserved cheer!!

Inta-Don

What i meant in my post was that barney's lyrics have begun to ruin some neworder songs and they should think about having some instrumentals on their albums: rather than a good song with crap lyrics, they could add more electronics and atmosphere and skip the lyrics. neworder instrumentals are great. better than listening to slow jam. if run wild is for steve and gilliians daughter, i do have more respect for that but why end that song with "i'm gonna live to get high" when getting high must be the last thing on your mind when someone so close is seriously ill. Slagging your favorite band is not a bad thing to do. neworder are very human and that adds to their appeal HOWEVER, i feel like get ready could have been a great album if the lyrics weren't so terrible in places. player in the league could have been a great fucking song if barney could have come up with a different chorus. the chorus to that song doesn't even match the tone of the rest of the lyrics. Slow Jam seems to be liked by die-hards too blind to admit their Hero's can place a wrong step or those who do not speak english as their primary language. As for the whooping, i know barney can't control it but when the emotionally charged Atmosphere get's played nowadays, the whoops seem very out of place "Walk In Silence...Whoop!/Don't walk away/In Silence...Whoop"

All i really want is a perfect Neworder album (remember Low-Life) and the easiest way to achieve that would be add a few instrumentals and take the strain away from our beloved Barney.

I may not have seen neworder live as many times as those lucky enough to be in the UK but I don't see how anyone could have listened to their albums and singles as much as I have. To suggest i am not a true fan because i do not blindly accept everything neworder does and says as the gospel is absurd. A forum like neworderonline is the perfect place for us to discuss these issues. if you do not think some lyrics on Get Ready were shit, tell me why not. the instrumentation on the album is excellent throughout but lyrically, all of Slow Jam, parts of Crystal, Run WIld, Player in the League, 60MPH and Rock the Shack are very bad.

Would you rather have another gem like Elegia or another Slow Jam?