'Barney's 'Shit' and he should leave New Order?'

I think a possible reason that elegia is so revered is because aside from being an utterly wonderful composition it takes a diversion from the NO "formula" so to speak. Soviet is another strange but compelling piece of magic of the "electronic" album, as is Avalanche of Republique (as Gillian affectionatly calls it in an interview!). Run Wild has taken another route - not necessarily the wrong route in my eyes,,, just a different route. It allows NO to show their not 2dimensional and even tho some of the lyrics are undeniably a little dented in places Barneys voice still carries them off effortlessly....

in my opinion anyhow ;)

Well Jeff you seem to echo my own thoughts on this subject. Some people do seem to have laced into Barney quite extensively... whatever next, a petition to stop Hooky playing bass?, a protest at Steven's underpants?

Brian G - I would never suggest that anybody was any more or less a New Order fan for showing their opinions on certain songs etc. (I mean, I do it often enough). I was merely pointing out that the people who were suggesting that Barney was 'Shit(e)' were perhaps mistaken, and questioned (quite rightly) their loyalty to the love of NO's music. Fairly straightforward I think. The good/bad NO material debate has little to do with the harsh views some people have expressed.

In very simple terms, if someone hated Bono I really can't see them enjoying U2... can you?

One last point, Brian, if you were ever in the North of England I'd happily make you a cup of tea and share a few digestive biscuits with you. I.E., I'm certainly not trying to provoke arguments or spread bad will. Quite the opposite, I'm attempting to understand the naughty words directed at the Barn Stormer.

I assume that everyone on this board are 'hardcore New Order fans', otherwise they wouldn't bother with being here at all... So, if anyone criticizes anyone in New Order or anything about New Order, I don't take it too seriously, cause it's still the love for them that makes us want to discuss it in the first place.

Sorry to dissappoint you Jeff. having been to dallas many times before, i understand how you could be entertained by watching hooky eat chex mix. my complaints were petty, overanalyzed critiques admittedly, but this forum would be boring if everyone praised every step neworder took. they fuck up frequently and we (mostly) stand by them All the Way. Let's be honest about the state of neworder in 2001. The set list has become stagnant and half the lyrics on Get Ready are second rate rhymes for the sake of rhyming. I love neworder and these critiques do not diminish my admiration for the band but rather a desire to see them return to their pre-republic granduer. why can't the people who wrote all those fantastic songs change the fucking set every now and then and i do not mean drop one add another (RTS - Ruined in a Day). They have the depth and musical ability to put on a unique show from night to night but as Allen will tell you , if you've seen one, you've seen them all. Admittedly, i have never played in a band so i don't know how hard it is but if they could play different sets nightly from 81-87, why do they stick with the same stuff now? From what i heard at the Gorge and other Boots i've received, they sound better than ever as a unit. Touched and Blue Monday seem to hurt the overall quality of the sets rather than help them. maybe we should send the band some of the bootlegs and let them decide for themselves. Also, Why do they ignore Low-Life and Technique entirely? Certainly these are the most popular NewOrder albums right? Why include both Touchd and Blue Monday when there are so many others to choose from? And yes Jeff, I would rather see Barney wistle 1812 and Steve play Asteroids if it meant i would not have to see my favorite band going through the motions, laboring through old "classics" for some teenager who thinks Republic was their first album. In fact, watching hunstman wrestle Barney for the last pringle would be more enjoyable than suffering through Touched by thehand of God live. nothing felt as good as seeing neworder at the Gorge but that doesn't mean they're perfect. simple things like changing the set can greatly improve fan reaction and increase the bands enjoyment of the show. Why not play Primitive Notion and Someone Like You. For a slow number, replace Ruined with Vicious Streak. Hooky's bass fucking rocks on VS and Barney's lyrics are some of the best since Technique. When i take off to run errands in a few minutes, of course Neworder will be on the discman but i do hope they decide to reexamine their live show before coming to the states (if they come).

Jeffy baby, I have no idea what you're talking about.....but I think what you're saying is......no, I just don't have a clue. Sorry

i quite enjoy vanilla ice cream. the smack junkies littering the streets in seattle are depressing. Having moved here from new orleans, i still find the surroundings beautiful even if i do step over wasted lives to get a good view of the mountains. as i remember, Deep Elum was the area of town i was interested in and that was a 2 or 3 block stretch with record shops, clubs (saw moby in 91) and clothing shops. There is also a fantastic record store in the burbs somewhere "Bill's" perhaps? Really big, tons of vinyl located in a strip mall somewhere. i found lots of gems there but it's been almost ten years since i've visited.

as for new order, i get the impression that most of the 93 shows were performed by a group disinterested. Even though i have not seen a set list from Kansas City, Barney claims to have had a revelation in a KC hotel room during that tour. Surely Dallas was played the same week or perhaps a week before/after.

COME ON! It's not as if all will be lost if Barney really did decide to leave New Order. Like they said, if this Bernard decides to walk, they could always replace him with another Mancunian Bernard......Mr. Manning. You wouldn't even notice the difference......

Originally posted by Jeff White Of course, I do forget, we don't have all the smack junkies beautifying our rather flat landscape around here either. And I don't know how many of you managed to catch the order here in the states back in 93, but they seemed totally disinterested, whereas this go around, they actually looked like they were enjoying themselves. Of course, if we all liked everything equally, I guess we would all eat vanilla ice cream...did that make sense?

O.K. So Fuck Off then!

AS FAR AS I'VE SEEN HERE, THERE AIN'T NO LAWS AGAINST IT - YOU ARE ALLOWED TO LIKE BOTH SIDES EQUALLY!

In fact it's also a healthworthy advice, to sit down for instance to a slow one like Katrusya, whilst you dance to Verkhovyno.

I'll guess the same counts for New Order, we enjoy cooling down to the atmosphere and melancholy to the tracks like "Doubts even here" and "Truth" and loosen up and dance the way we individually do to the "up-tracks" like "Sub-culture", "Temptation" and "Crystal"

If you're thinking of The first track of Cabaret Voltaire's "Voice of America" that says "you are not allowed dance" is by the way fictious, and stil not a real situation.

Cabaret Voltaire, I guess you could say very dance-friendly, and at the same time very dark. To enjoy dancing to the rhythmic "Yashar" and "This is Entertainment" is harmless and New Order's uptempo "Denial" - dark and what most people is negative music, can be positive.

• There are Still no laws against it! :-)

Well, sorry to react so late, Huntsy. But, of course, as I stated on that surreal 'omg ! omg !' thread, I'm with you.

I can't even start to see how you can love NO without Barney's voice and melodies.

If there were only instrumentals, I might have found the music good, but never would I have been a NO fan.

I have trouble talking about this subject because I can't really see any point of discussion as the aforementioned thread was so far off.

It's very healthy, I think, not to take everything NO does for granted, but that's just absurd.

We love you, Barney, as we love Pete, Gillian and Steve. And those should be my final words on this subject matter.

It's like saying "thank god Ian killed himself" if you're not into Joy Division. Barney's voice and guitar are essential to New Order's sound, and to suggest he leave is just plain dumb....

if bernard sumner leaves new order,who will be the vocalist? peter hook?stephen morris?

who suggested barney leave new order? I have seen many shriek in horror at the suggestion but i don't know who said it. what i said was they should include instrumentals on their albums in place of weak lyrics from barney. it's a bit frustrating to see everyone over react at those statements. barney is a good front man and noone should or could replace him but since republic, he has been resorting to simple, meaningless rhymes more often than before. There are wonderful exceptions (Special, Vicious Streak, Primitive Notion) but there have been some songs that i do not want to listen to because of the lyrics. I never could have said that before 1993. It doesn't mean neworder are not the gods we think they are, it just means they could benefit from including instrumentals on albums in the future.

Originally posted by Jeff White > ...but if Barney were to leave, maybe the other 3 could convince everyone's favorite, Billy Corgan, or even better, Bobby Gillespie to join up and take over the vocal duties.

Jeff, I hope you're taking the piss mate!

Originally posted by vincent barroso if bernard sumner leaves new order,who will be the vocalist? peter hook?stephen morris?

Craig David is odds-on favourite to take over.

Originally posted by Martin Gray > Originally posted by vincent barroso> if bernard sumner leaves new order,who will be the vocalist? peter hook?stephen morris?

Craig David is odds-on favourite to take over.

I reckon Kelly Jones is a good bet.... *snarf*

Liv

I think Gillian would sound good on certain tracks, especially the 'dancier' ones. But I don't want Barney to leave.

Originally posted by Liv > Originally posted by Martin Gray> > > > Originally posted by vincent barroso> > if bernard sumner leaves new order,who will be the vocalist? peter hook?stephen morris?>

Craig David is odds-on favourite to take over.

I reckon Kelly Jones is a good bet.... *snarf*

Liv

I'm afraid he'll have to shave those eyebrows off first - then grow a good couple of inches..... Fnarr fnarr fnarr...... no offence....

Originally posted by Jason I think Gillian would sound good on certain tracks, especially the 'dancier' ones. But I don't want Barney to leave.

Well she already HAS!!! have you not heard of THE OTHER TWO?? Their last album: Superhighways was pretty damn fine - much better than their patchy debut The Other Two And You - I'm surprised no bastard here has even given this great LOST GEM the tiniest of mentions: all we keep gettin' is stuff on the side projects of the main boys in the band, but not Gill and her hubby......

Originally posted by Liv > Originally posted by Martin Gray> > > > Originally posted by vincent barroso> > if bernard sumner leaves new order,who will be the vocalist? peter hook?stephen morris?>

Craig David is odds-on favourite to take over.

I reckon Kelly Jones is a good bet.... *snarf*

Liv

Oh dear. Is there a small colony of squirrals hiding in his eyebrows as they do seem to twitch in an uncontrollable fashion!!

I 'm going to buy it very soon.

Originally posted by Martin Gray > Originally posted by Jason > I think Gillian would sound good on certain tracks, especially the 'dancier' ones. But I don't want Barney to leave.

Well she already HAS!!! have you not heard of THE OTHER TWO?? Their last album: Superhighways was pretty damn fine - much better than their patchy debut The Other Two And You - I'm surprised no bastard here has even given this great LOST GEM the tiniest of mentions: all we keep gettin' is stuff on the side projects of the main boys in the band, but not Gill and her hubby......

Look, his eyebrows could be fully grown fucking badgers and id still want to shag the arse off him.... To be quite frank, i'd let him eat pringles in bed...

Liv

Originally posted by Liv Look, his eyebrows could be fully grown fucking badgers and id still want to shag the arse off him....To be quite frank, i'd let him eat pringles in bed...Liv

Steady on !!! Any mention of "fucking badgers" and Pringles and you - know - who will be beating your door down. ;)