The Cure beating New Order LIVE

Well, in the US of A, you don't see a football shirt at any rock gig.

Football in USA is somekinda Rugby and very boring.The real football is like the one we play here in Brazil (5 times world champion)

Exactly, only saw the Cure live once when we went to Glastonbury to see Happy Mondays in about 1990.

They were quite good but seemed to go on for ages and ages and ages...zzzzzz, which doesn't do much for the eyeliner in such a sweaty environment ;)

People who say NO are crap, or can't compare with the Cure live, obviously never saw much of them during the mid 80's when they were simply brilliant, mistakes and all, which was all part of the fun...small venues, coming on very late, the tension. There was very few other gigs I went to in that period that had the same atmosphere as an NO concerto, which is all part of the experience, as well as what songs are played.

It's never gonna be the same now as it was then but last years cricket ground gig was the best for ages and much better than Finsbury which I must admit was a bit flat but that may have been my massive hangover from the nite before.

The only good thing about the Cure is when Dinosaur Jr covered "Just Like Heaven". :D

l8rs,

Nick ;)

(A southerner who fuckin' hates the Cure)

NO seem to attract a lot more gruff Northern resolutely non-poncy wouldn't-be-caught-dead-in-makeup 30-something blokes who are either totally non political or are left wing in a hard manly kind of way, non of that soft CND why-can't-we-all-just-get-along crap.

Shug anyone

Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart Football in USA is somekinda Rugby and very boring.The real football is like the one we play here in Brazil (5 times world champion)

I agree that American football is boring, but I always dreaded playing it in gym class in high school and never understood the rules. Nevertheless, you still won't see a soccer/real football jersey at any Cure show. I saw them in Camden 3 years ago, and there was enough eye-liner to paint the field where I was sitting black.

Personally I don't see the point of performing exact replicas of studio tracks. I'd rather stay home and play the CD really loud. Trilogy is technically really well executed, but it's also a bit sterile.

New Order have always been more about Substance than Technique and that's why I love 'em. ;)

shugz, skip 12 posts back. our holy father's just heard news of Chris Sutton's one match ban for his post match comments on the shameful 'Pars'!

listen, Bob borrowed on 'In Between Days' whilst Hooky did likewise with 'All The Way'. & on their day, which was 16 years ago, Order were the ultimate ride in the flesh. the Cure never even went close.

I saw the Cure once on the "Disintegration" tour because I was trying to get in this Goth chick's pants and she wanted to go. I was none too excited so I picked up some mushrooms in the parking lot from a guy, ate 'em and then sat there bored shitless for the next 3 or so hours. Nada. They played that whole album in order. It was horrible and I was pissed off that I'd bought some bunk merchandise. Strangely when we started out of the show to the parking lot, I could barely tell up from down as something kicked in. Bottom line, the Cure live was so dull that they had the power to cancel the effects of psychedelic drugs. Now that is a band that sucks.

In the US, the record companies tended to market the Cure and New Order to the same record buyers and radio stations which is why they seemed to get lumped in together over here. Although they rarely sounded similar, both bands ended up sharing the same fans of "modern rock" because a station open to playing one generally played the other. However, I do understand British New Order fans wanting to distance themselves from the likes of the stereotypical Cure fan.

That being said, I've attended 3 Cure shows (in 1987, 1989 and 2000) in addition to 6 six New Order gigs. The Cure can be very powerful live, but don't have the emotional impact of New Order on a good night. New Order gigs tend to have a celebratory vibe that the Cure barely scratch the surface of when they trot out some of their old upbeat tunes.

I must admit that each of the 3 Cure shows were excellent. Unfortunately, I haven't seen a great New Order gig since 1989. The 2 1993 shows I went to were interchangeable (uninspired and lazy) and the 2001 Area One set was marred by awful sound.

I wouldn't say the Cure are "beating" New Order in the live arena (it's not really a competition, is it?) but perhaps they are a bit more consistant. Make me choose though and I'll take my chances on a New Order gig any day.

until i met my girlfriend 3 years ago, i thought all cure fans also liked new order, strangely, aside from the popular NO singles, she did'nt know anything about them. to this day, she thinks NO is alright but does likes more obscure songs. anyways, that helped change my perception that not all cure fans like new order and vice versa. i love new order and the cure for different reasons, id rather listen to NO when i want serious dance music mixed with bass and drums and guitars. as far as live goes, the cure is the best band in the world to see live(my opinion). any band that can go three hours straight is impressive. the reason they put on long shows is because they have so much material and want to give their fans what they want to hear. they change up their setlists nearly every night. i only saw new order once and did not remember much other than that it was less than an hour long (chicago 93) but from the dvd and glastonbury 87 cd, bernards voice does not sound as good as it does on cd. roberts voice is greater live than on cd because he gets more emotional live. as far as them not moving around much on stage, thats silly. you cant really expect anyone singing one hundred years or disintegration to dance around all happy like. besides, he plays guitar too. he's not in a punk band where he'll bounce around strumming 3 cords and singing. he does move and dance on stage sometimes. when they play their silly pop songs like why cant i be you or lovecats. their bloodflowers tour was all-gloom, so there was no dancing. except for simon bouncing around (please, no hooky/gallup comparisons, thats not the point) he also changes words to songs frequently live and songs are played differently live (disintegration and a forest are the best examples). im not going to elaborate on new order live shows cause ive only seen them once and cant judge them on that alone. but they are both great bands and hopefully we can at least agree on that (unless you hate the cure) and are unique and different in many ways. the only other band ive seen as much as i have the cure is depeche. while they put on great shows, if you see them twice on one tour, youd realize they have fake emotions on stage, say exactly the same shit before songs at every show, setlists never change from night to night (except for a few occassions on their exciter tour)and obviously very staged on-stage dance numbers by dave. if you only saw em once on the exciter tour, watch the paris dvd, its the same show. so new order has them beat cause barnry and hooky are fun on-stage (moment before temptation)on the dvd. and i think the cure are great live because they are amazing playing their instruments and dont pre-program songs much at all.

damn i write long ass replys. ill try to cut down on them. im not writing a fucking book.

Oke back from holidays and I'm surprised about the amount of replys on my topic... don't understand me wrong NO is a great band no doubt about it... I was just talking about the live performence and aspecialy gigs during festivals and large halls...

I think NO will performe better in small locations... 'Let's rock the F%$^ house" sounds so stupid when you're a band like NO... and it sounds even more stupid when you shout it and you can't performe an ass kicking show

Originally posted by Guess Who Oke back from holidays and I'm surprised about the amount of replys on my topic... don't understand me wrong NO is a great band no doubt about it... I was just talking about the live performence and aspecialy gigs during festivals and large halls... I think NO will performe better in small locations... 'Let's rock the F%$^ house" sounds so stupid when you're a band like NO... and it sounds even more stupid when you shout it and you can't performe an ass kicking show

you should have been there.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by 404 error> Well I'm English and a fan of both NO and the Cure, but then I'm a soft Southerner, so that's probably why.> .

Now, now, let's not try and bring geography into this.

It's the fact that you're 'soft' not 'southern' that you like the Cure! ;)

Probably both are necessary qualifications. I wonder what Northern softies listen to? The Housemartins?

tenuously related regionalist point - how come Mogwai seem to be considered credible when as far as I can see they're basically a shoegazing band 10 years after the whole ('home counties' based) thing got laughed into oblivion? Is it because they is Scottish?

I go to register as a new member only to find not only has someone registered with my email..but they also use the same password as me

Anyway, schizophrenia aside, this new order/cure malarky. Go back to around 81 and not only were very few people wearing eyeliner at cure gigs, the cure also had a very aggresive hard core following like the stranglers did around 79/80. There was also very little black clothing going on and as good as no goths. 'Goths' as are seemed to spring up sometime around late 82. Up till then you could go to a bauhaus, banshees, sisters of mercy, cure etc gig and be guaranteed to not see hoards of black clad sans muscles youths. In fact, you were guaranteed a rough time at all those gigs. ANd now that I remember, while I did wear eyeliner to new orer gigs in the very early 80s, no way did I to the Cure..guaranteed a kick in if you did.

As for the two attracting the same audience, they very much did back then. The group of us that went to the cure gigs all went to the new order gigs. Until the likes of Janice Long hit Radio One, those two, along with the Bunnymen, were the top 40 scrapping side of alternative music. Of the two, the Cure probably remain my favourite band but I was at the Trilogy concert last Summer and god was I bored. All concerts should be 90 minutes max.

Ps how the f#ck do I change my user name to Colin Kerr? None of this 'hoops' business..unless we win something this year that is....

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Guess Who> > > > Once again, WTF have the Cure got to do with New Order?!> > > > Sorry to say but your question is more stupid than the compare of TC & NO, both making the same style of music.... and know the history... both bands where in a kind of competition a long time ago (the time you listen to ABBA)> > > > No offense

Offence taken.

Sorry, but I'm English, I'm not a loner, I don't have 'issues' with my sexuality and I don't get bullied by 'bigger boys' so I fail to see the comparison.

The Cure and New Order attract totally different audiences in their home country so I still fail to see any common ground. And I'd never ever heard of the Cure(*) being lumped in with New Order until I was exposed to boards such as this in very recent years.

(* see also Depeche Mode, Pet Shops Boys, Ultravox).

In fact, I would go so far as to say I find it rather insulting being lumped in with the Cure. Nearly almost as insulting as when an Aussie girl I work with, when asked a question about the Pet Shop Boys recently, was heard to comment, "Go ask Al Jarvis - he follows them around the world!". Or when a workmate recently asked me what ever happened to Rick Astley, and I retorted how the fcuk should I know? And he countered, well you like 80's sh&te.

I think you are Rick Astley

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by kamar khan> damn i write long ass replys. ill try to cut down on them. im not writing a fucking book.

You managed to get Depeche Mode in there too though!

Are you American by any chance?!

He forgot to add Pet Shop Boys, though.

i too have seen them both (girlfriend at time was a fan) saw them at the nec in 89 around the same time as the order played & at the xfm concert a couple of years later.

at the nec gig (disintegration tour i believe) the power lead for the keyboards fell out about half an hour* into one of the songs & the sound did not change, a roadie eventually noticed during the next song when it was plugged back in again to no discernable difference.

you could be thinking it was one he wasnt using - but it was a single keyboard & he was stood at it pressing the keys...

the xfm one was by far the most boring - a couple of songs were okay when fat bob got his acoustic out but other than that was a bit droney & more fun was to be had watching the light shows

have never felt bored at a new order gig, it does seem a better atmosphere there (& certainly smells less of hair spray!) i would rather hear a band making mistakes & sounding a little rough round the edges than perfectly reproducing the sound of their albums.

too long sets are worst than too short sets imho - saw dandy warhols this year, played for about three hours & it was ok, but would have made a brilliant 90 minute set

*not actual timing

Yet MORE hilarious Cure vs NewOrder baloney!! jesus, does this ever end??

Who cares who is better than who? They've all had their highs and lows, they've all brought out great records and shite ones, they're all middle aged and fat, they're all "alternative dinosaurs" or whatever it is people call them these days.

Great Cure Lps / singles include: Pornography, Faith, 17 Secs, Head On The Door, Disintegration, Forest, Primary, Charlotte Sometimes, Inbetween Days, Lullaby...

Crap Cure Lps / singles include; The Top, Wish, Mood Swings, Love Cats, Caterpillar, 13th, High, Friday I'm In Love, Mint Car, Gone, Wrong Number

Besides, take a look at this pic gleaned from their official website - Robert Smith is looking more and more like Jo Brand by the day......in fact he's getting so big no wonder the photo is panoramic-shaped - just to fit the other four members in!

when did detective starsky join the cure?

at the nec gig (disintegration tour i believe) the power lead for the keyboards fell out about half an hour* into one of the songs & the sound did not change, a roadie eventually noticed during the next song when it was plugged back in again to no discernable difference.

In fairness this may not reflect on the band as a whole; as I recall Lawrence Tolhurst was playing the keys for them at the time, and was in the process of getting himself canned for alleged incompetence and general drunkenness. So the band may have been doing both you and him a favor. :evil2:

I usually get bored if a gig goes much more than forty minutes or so, even if it's a band I like. The New Order gigs I've seen were just the right length, leaves you wanting just a little more. The only musician I've seen pull off a three-hour-plus concert is Springsteen (yes, the Boss) but he's got more energy at fifty-something than several teen punk bands put together. He's nuts.

Springsteen knows how to entertain no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Anyhow The Cure and New Order always seem linked together due to the United States fanbase. Back in the 80s the American mainstream was dominated by hair metal, bad pop, etc. Fortunately we had College Radio. College Radio played what was considered alternative music at the time. REM, The Cure, New Order, The Smiths, Echo & The Bunnymen, Depeche Mode, and U2(before they hit it huge). These bands sort of had their own pseudo-genre in America. Even though many played very different music from one another, fans of one generally enjoyed the others. They were the alternative to Van Halen, Michael Jackson, etc. In that respect, that is why they are always grouped together in the US. About the Trilogy DVD, I was very disappointed. The mix is very bad, sounds like alot of postwork was done, and Robert's vocals botch a few times. Fortunately he doesnt need a teleprompter though ::Cough Barney!:: Trilogy is nothing compared to their 3 hour plus Third Wembley Stadium Performance in 1989. Better lineup (Robert, Simon, Porl, Boris, and Roger), and better performances(included all the the Disintegration album, an additional entire sets worth, and four encores) One problem with New Order is the lack of availability of decent live material pre-1993 on CD. It would be nice to get a couple complete shows officially released (Glastonbury 87, Birmingham 89, and Reading 1993) as it is more fair to judge their live performances when they were at their peak.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis Once again, WTF have the Cure got to do with New Order?!I never studied accountancy or wore eye-liner and I don't live in suburbia so could someone sane (and Engerlish) please explain the relevance to me??!!!

The Only thing I know is that the cure covered love will tear us apart before. Is it the relationship?:p:p:p