London Bomb rumours ?

Hitler's point was that the Islam is spread through the sword. If the Islamic invaders would have won that long ago battle Germany would be Islamic. But, according to Hitler, the invaders would have died out because they would not be able to adjust to the climate and thus the German people could continue the conquest of the world. His opinion was that Germany should have been Islamic not Christian.

Having grown up in apartheid South Africa during the 70's and 80's where car bombs and bombs in restaurants were fairly common, I can imagine the fear and horror that will now be sinking in. My thoughts are with everyone who has been affected by this. There can never be any justification whatsoever for indiscriminately killing a bunch of people in the name of some idea.

bLuE oRdEr wrote: And Islam can fuck the hell off, and take George motherfucker Bush with you.

Wow, tiger! Islam is not the problem - it's how people misapply it. Islam means peace. Jihad is the battle within yourself between good and evil. I don't follow any particular religion but it's not right to tell Islam to fuck off - the Muslim council of Britain has deplored the attacks.

Don't blame Islam, blame the fucking bastard terrorists and the extremes of poverty that breed terrorism.

I've been a Londoner for 15 years+.

GOOD MORNING LONDON Never doubted you for a second.

EDIT: Well said Craigy. Muslims are to blame as much as Catholics are for the IRA.

I find all religions stupid ( not faith, just religion, I cannot wrap my head around how anyone's relationship with their deity can be defined externally). The bleedin Vatican only admitted galeileo was right a few years ago. Show me a religion with a decent theory of gravitation, electricity and wave mechanics and I MIGHT listen.

Richard Dawkins has a wonderful arguement.... How can a religious zealot be SO convinced his is the one true faith? Has he tried many? did he do a tour of the local religious buildings seeing who had the nicest Hymns or coolest stained glass windows, or even who's views matched their own most closely....or merely pick up the first one his parents left lying around.

It's one of those beautiful pieces of thinking that appears perfectly clear to everyone except those to whom it actually refers.

craigy wrote:

Wow, tiger! Islam is not the problem - it's how people misapply it. Islam means peace. Jihad is the battle within yourself between good and evil. I don't follow any particular religion but it's not right to tell Islam to fuck off - the Muslim council of Britain has deplored the attacks.

Don't blame Islam, blame the fucking bastard terrorists and the extremes of poverty that breed terrorism.

I'm not a fan of Islam, but what you said is right... Ask e.g. Yussuf Islam (Cat Stevens) what Islam is really about...

I would like to express my deepest sympathy to all victims and their family and friends.

Londoners, please be aware that we sympathise with you all!!!

Kind regards, Jim

The shoot to kill policy was stupid. If any state initiates such policies, they provide real justifications for terrorism. It was the reactionary policies of the British state that fuelled republican paramilitaries in the 70s. Liam may also like to take into account that the British Army had/has a presence up north, and that mainland Britain was attacked on numerous occasions, whilst the republic of Ireland was attacked by the British state too – in one instance leaving 33 dead, and hundreds injured. The situation in the North of Ireland is more than a “domestic conflict”.

What happened in London yesterday was terrible. No amount of ID cards, Guantanamos, and attacks on the freedoms of ordinary people are going to stop it happening again. There can be no doubt either that the “War on Terror” – just like the “War on Drugs” has worsened the situation. There is no justification for what happened in London yesterday – but there are reasons. Simply calling people “Evil” is a gross simplification of any situation.

$2Billion a day has been spent on the War on Terror since 2001, since then, tens of thousands are dead, and many former moderates have been radicalised to the extreme right wings of their respective religions. Iraq is in a state of Civil war because of (rather than in spite of) the presence of US and British troops. It is a policy that is failing to stop attacks on innocents in the west, and is guaranteeing them on innocents in the mid-east. It is also a policy that has driven ordinary people on both sides to extreme points of views – characterised on these very message boards by the “fuck Islam” bigotry of one poster.

Indeed! Someone once said; how can you teach people that killing is wrong by killing more people...

I'd have thought that anyone denouncing Islam would be a Christian (or possibly jew).

Turn the other cheek Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

oh and that commandment is....

"THOU SHALT NOT KILL" not "thou shalt not kill unless your govt says it's ok cos the guy's name is mohammed"

there are no qualifiers, no quantifiers, no exceptions, sub-clauses or fine print. Just "thou shalt not kill"....I know other bits of the Bible talk about an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth (leaving everyone blind and starving), but I thought the Bible was just the "word" of Jehova, and the commandments were "law" and therefor trump everything else.....after all Moses' tablets were written by the big yin himself which is more than you can say for the rest of it.

I laugh when I see army chaplains and stuff....I'm thinking...boy are you gonna be sorry if your fairy tale turns out true......they meet saint pete....."says here you blessed men who you KNEW were on their way to break the commandments and wish that GOD HELP THEM!!!!??!!??!!......oh dear....going DOWN!"

EDIT: BTW the idea of Islam as a fundamentally intolerant religion is silly. Ask an Iman about Jesus and ask a priest about Mohammed, see who gives an intolerant answer. And while you're at it.....consider...the crusades and the spanish inquisition. As for the subjugation of women, Christianity is only coming out of that now after 2000 years....Islam has a while to go yet, and I'd have thought it was up to them to lead the lives they wish, if their women do not like it, they could become Christian or Jewish, yet they do not.

The facts:

There is no democracy in any muslim countries(except Turkey maybe).

There is no freedom in any muslim countries

The women´s discrimination is the main thing in the social organization in all these countires.

Are you sure that the Islam is not the problem?

I think that the laicism is one of the most important things in our politic system. Do you believe thet is posible in the muslim countries (and i don´t refer to islamic republics like Iran, i talk about all the muslim countries.

The problem is poverty.

The solution isn't war.

I think we're losing sight here. There's 50+ men women and kids dead, and really it doesn't mater if the people who did it were Muslims Jews, Christians, Mromons or fucking Martians......any religious affiliation MUST be sceondary to the fundamental fact that such people are simply hate filled scum. They are killers, cowardly killers, cowardly killers who TARGET the innocent, they are that before, above and notwithstanding anything else they may be.

if it turns out this was anti globalisation protesters....what arvitrary group can be scapegoated then? poor people? People with long har? people who buy free range eggs?

There's a huge amount to be discussed certainly, and I'm thankful that most people here, even those I dissagree with, are capable of rational discussion. But it's best left to another time, another thread.

There are only 2 fats worth repeating.

1. Some good people are no longer with us, and many more are in pain for that loss, many others still are in physical pain caused by wounds.
2. Beyond those poor people, beyond a couple of hours of running around in the streets, the big brave soldiers of god, or whoever the hell they were, have caused London, the City, the Entity, the Spirit of it's millions of souls (souls from all over our planet I may add), no more permenant damage than would a rhino suffer at the hands of a flea sinking his teeth into it's arse with all it's might.

It's simple so that minds keep focussed. If you want my detailed (over 100,000 word) treatise on the problems of the world go to:

http://www.20six.co.uk/cloudcuckooland

War is never good no matter what - especially the stupid bloody pre-emptive wars that are currently in vogue.

With regard to that, here's another dumb-fuck simplicity to analyse; 'vicious circles'.

AgentWood wrote: we have absolutely no idea what the hell the difference between yellow and orange is. except orange is darker than yellow.

Actually, you're able to eat an orange.

Ally3000 wrote:

craigy wrote: The problem is poverty.

The solution isn't war.

Probably the most simplistic reasoning I've ever heard for this, you do know there is a bit more to it than simply what you said above? I also don't subscribe to the hippy belief that all war is bad, of course it is horrific but sometimes it is necessary to protect a greater good.

Personally I don't subscribe to any religion, but 'Islamic' terrorists... there just seem to be so many of them. You don't really hear of Buddist terrorists do you? Even Christian militant groups are relatively small fry (unless you count the US as one big Christian militant group) I have my suspicions of their faith for sure, but I would never discriminate against a Muslim, they're just as human as I am. The analogy of blaming all Catholics for IRA campaigns here is very apt, you can't simply blame all Muslims. That would breed the same hatred London saw yesterday. Some morons will though, probably with the BNP in the thick of it feasting on the fear.

Who were the innocent victims yesterday in London? – Workers

Who will fight for the US/UK army in the Middle East – predominantly working class soldiers.

Who Blow themselves up in Iraq and Palestine? – Muslims, yes, but not very rich ones

Will millionaires have to fear that their commuter train will be blown up? – No

Is Multi Millionaire Bin Laden walking around with a bomb belt, or is he just funding the policies of murder? - No

Will the Bush twins do a stint in the land their father seems so keen on blowing up? - No

It’s the poor people in the west, and the poor people in the middle east that get dumped on. It’s the working class areas in Northern Ireland that are ruined by organised terrorists and organised Criminals. When you look at it objectively, its always the rich that win in these conflicts, and always the poor that suffer.

Wake up, before we all end up on our knees.

Also: Not every Republican is necessarily a Catholic, and most provos wouldn’t have much time for the Church.

twist wrote: Blue Order, read Speer's Inside The Third Reich.

I doubt the self-serving Speer is a very reliable witness.

Incidentally, I used to think the subdued sample at the start of 'This Time of Night' was someone saying 'I'm one of the few people who lived inside what's called the Third Reich'. I remember thinking 'Oh God not another embarassing Nazi reference'. (when of course, its actually Jeffrey Bernard saying '...who's lived whats called the low life')

JL Castrillon wrote: The facts:

There is no democracy in any muslim countries(except Turkey maybe).

There is no freedom in any muslim countries

Well since freedom is your concern....why not rollup to their border's with a big loudspeaker and shout....."Who all doesn't like being a Muslim....alllof you can come out here and we'll take care of you". And see how many takers you get.

The you can leave them to THEIR freedom.

Freedom of faith is a fairly important freedom. Sound like you don't care much for freedom really, because the first thing you must do is grant people the freedom to be assholes.

"Free to live exactly like we do" doesn't have much ring to it.

Incidentally, I'm popping round to see my Jordanian Friend Amir soon.....would you like me to start with knifing him, or should I go for his baby daughter? I suppose the Muslim dead from yesterday should be stuck up in the streets?

Actually, on a thread where people quote speer and hitler then start talking about the extermination of a religion....well....guess all those referrences DID attract the wrong sort of person to NO.

I wonder what would happen if the Talliban won the next afghan election?

Clockwork C wrote: The shoot to kill policy was stupid. If any state initiates such policies, they provide real justifications for terrorism. It was the reactionary policies of the British state that fuelled republican paramilitaries in the 70s. Liam may also like to take into account that the British Army had/has a presence up north, and that mainland Britain was attacked on numerous occasions, whilst the republic of Ireland was attacked by the British state too – in one instance leaving 33 dead, and hundreds injured. The situation in the North of Ireland is more than a “domestic conflict”.

What happened in London yesterday was terrible. No amount of ID cards, Guantanamos, and attacks on the freedoms of ordinary people are going to stop it happening again. There can be no doubt either that the “War on Terror” – just like the “War on Drugs” has worsened the situation. There is no justification for what happened in London yesterday – but there are reasons. Simply calling people “Evil” is a gross simplification of any situation.

$2Billion a day has been spent on the War on Terror since 2001, since then, tens of thousands are dead, and many former moderates have been radicalised to the extreme right wings of their respective religions. Iraq is in a state of Civil war because of (rather than in spite of) the presence of US and British troops. It is a policy that is failing to stop attacks on innocents in the west, and is guaranteeing them on innocents in the mid-east. It is also a policy that has driven ordinary people on both sides to extreme points of views – characterised on these very message boards by the “fuck Islam” bigotry of one poster.

When did the British state attack the Republic of Ireland? I have no knowledge of these events, but i assume you were talking in the context of the troubles that began in the late 60's?

Actually, you could argue that the War on Terror has been quite succesful. Consider it as on ongoing thing, the fact of the matter is that an attack on London was inevitable, but compare it to Madrid, Bali etc etc it was quite small scale, bearing resemblance to a more guerilla style attack than traditional terrorist tactics. There was no biological attack, no nuclear dirty bomb and all those other things that have been mentioned as possibilities. Yes, a terrible atrocity, but one which could have been a hell of a lot worse.

The bottom line is that, especially in this country, Islam needs to take a long hard look at itself. Why are people carrying this out. its not solely 'poor', a lot of these people come from very well to do backgrounds, think about it, its not cheap to spend months away from your family in pakistan or afghanistan is it? Also, why are the various muslim bodies so quick to portray themselves as the victim, blaming the BNP and the rest of the far right, and a misunderstanding of Islam. No one has a misunderstanding of Buddism, or Judaism, or even aeithism. it is solely islam that has these problems, and they need to sort it out instead of constantly playing the victim.

Islam has been the victim of the biggest terrorist on the planet BUSH.

Bush and Blair have put this on our doorstep - BASTARDS

Same reason some prick priest/minister or politician from the responsible side is always on the TV yackin when something happens here.

The self same priests who allow volleys of shots by terrorists at terrorist funerals. The self same ministers who let their churches be used as bases of operations for attacks on Catholics.

The self same politicians who hate the thought of peace cos they'd be off the gravy train.

You cannot blab about islam this and islam that when you live where we do. How many bombs and guns have been found in chapels and churches here?

None of the tiny number of Muslims I know have ever acted or spoken viloently, yet I see my fellow (by name and birth only) Protestants stoning Catholic children. I've watched them burn our their own busses, shoot at the firemen putting them out.....I even seen them stone a fireman who was putting out ONE OF THEIR OWN who in his almighty genius had tipped a molotov all down himself......I thought I was gonna take an asthma attack I laughed so hard.

All religions bear the responsibility for acts carried out on their behalf. the human race is full of dickheads and morons, they can always be steered on someone else's course of fanaticism. Religion is an important method of doing this..."you must do $OBSCENE_ACT for $DEITY". Even that cockcheese Hitler knew that and adopted SO mch of the trappings and pomp of religion into his own little knobhead club. Germany is a prime example of how even the sane and rational (never mind the uneducated religious savage) can be swept along on a wave of evil.

If Islam is any more guilty than any other religion, it's probably more to do with the fact that in general they take their religion more seriously than we so-called Christians, and are therefor easier to turn to the path of violence with a quick word from some tosser about "Allah's will". We're probably lucky there are no Jewish terrorist groups (with the exception of the Isreali Govt. Obviously) Or Mormons or even Budhists or whoever, because most religions take things a bit more seriously than an excuse to get legless at the winter solstice.

If the International community had responded to the problems in NI like they responded to the recent outbreaks, the republic of Ireland, a lovely place full of lovely people woulda been bombed into a muddy mire. (more likely they;d actually have Bombed somewhere totally unrelated...if we're to keep to the metaphor).

Bring me a terrorist, and I'll personally put the hot wires down his dickeye, coat him in paper cuts and dump him in a tank of young Whiting. But hurt one Muslim for actions carried out by another....nope, that would make ME a terrorist....using fear in a population to exert political pressure on a faction within that population.

OOOOOOPS...post went a bit stegglehedge there....clipboard under the control of an idiot :)

9/11 was planned before Bush was in office and carried out before Bush sent troops to Afghanistan and Iraq. Western democracies represent a threat to Middle East male theocracies. Be happy you can enjoy 38 EEs. In the Mid East those are covered up and never seen.

Digital Mike Binoche wrote: Islam has been the victim of the biggest terrorist on the planet BUSH.

Bush and Blair have put this on our doorstep - BASTARDS

Goes back even further...the crusades....the brittish installing their own Govts all over the arab world. The UK and US helping set up isreal is a biggie too ( hell I'd be pissed off if someone showed up at my front door, saying "I've got this ancient fairy tale that says I live here, mind if I come in?" And ended up being made to live in the outside toilet being shot at by gunships).

I love Bush, he's the best comedy act on TV. Saudi's fuck over his country, so he has dinner with their ambassador and bombs Iraq.

But you can't put all the blame on "US" any more than you can put it all on "them".

You know, to be honest I think we're all pretty much sick wankers.

Poor buggers are barely cold, there may be people here affected, and here we are scoring points of each other. We're prety low.

Mind you when I think of the way some other places on the net will be dicussing this, we're a convent school debating socienty.

Do u think we should all shut up bout this?

I will if the rest of you will :)

Clockwork C wrote:

Who were the innocent victims yesterday in London? – Workers

considering where the bombs were planted, i think the majority of those killed and injured were most likely members of the bourgeoisie. i don't think you can use these attacks to further the marxist cause.

besides the point though, really.

Be happy you can enjoy 38 EEs. In the Mid East those are covered up and never seen.

With all the rants about how poorly women are treated by Muslims, isn't yor statement objectifying a womens body? Sexual exploitation of women in America is a billion dollar industry, rapes and other sexual assaults happen everyday, women get paid less in the work place, women who have big breats and a cute face can get better jobs and more promotions, nevermind their education or intellect. The idea behind covering up those 38 EEs is that men should not objectify women and treat them fairly. Obviously this idea has been lost among some Muslims but the basic principle is that would you want your sister, wife, or mother to be showing off her big tits so men can jerk off to it? I hope this is making some sense.

Steve Campbell wrote: You know, to be honest I think we're all pretty much sick wankers.

Poor buggers are barely cold, there may be people here affected, and here we are scoring points of each other. We're prety low.

Mind you when I think of the way some other places on the net will be dicussing this, we're a convent school debating socienty.

Do u think we should all shut up bout this?

I will if the rest of you will :)

Yeah, after a day of pontificating about all what's wrong with the world, I had to take a break and go out looking for signs of life (cute girls, little babies, good books to read, etc) this afternoon. I think, for the sake of the victims and their families, I will hold off further thoughts on the "blame" and just say I hope things can get better, but enjoy life while you have it. As yesterday proved, you never know when your time is up.

Spotnick wrote:

JL Castrillon wrote: The facts:

There is no democracy in any muslim countries(except Turkey maybe).

Democracy is not necessairly always a good thing, sometimes people (Americans mostly ;) ) elect idiots.

And another thing... there is islamic extremists, and there is also born-again christian extremists.. and we know where they are ;)

Jesusland!

LOL Britania Hits America a clip round the ear and says..."jesus nuts, right wing madmen, left wing madmen, astrologers advising government, dogs and cats mating in the streets and as for HOLLYWOOD, don't even start me on Hollywood....I don't know I try my best, and all you do is get all "independent", honestly I don't know why you can't just TRY to be a little more like your sisters Canada and Australia ( and she's full of CONS!) at least they have manners.....and another thing...your Auntie France and Uncle Ireland aren't best chuffed with you either, I should have put you over my knee and spanked you the minute you got stroppy about the taxes......." and so on.

(It's a joke people, nothing else) Laughter is a fearful sound to a fanatic ( unless of course it;s the diabolical cackling kind)

Actually, seriously, try this....next time you get pinned by a street looney or Linux.Mac.Windows.OS2 advocate, or the next time your boss is raving like a rabid dog about you being 14seconds longer than the regulation shite-break. Just Laugh in the fucker's face, it always renders them so mad they can no longer form an argument that even their own deluded minds could consider as coherent. ONLY try it on people who want to beat you up if you're sure you can get all their mates laughing too, that works, otherwise...well it's time to burn Nike.