London Bomb rumours ?

kamar wrote:

Be happy you can enjoy 38 EEs. In the Mid East those are covered up and never seen.

With all the rants about how poorly women are treated by Muslims, isn't yor statement objectifying a womens body? Sexual exploitation of women in America is a billion dollar industry, rapes and other sexual assaults happen everyday, women get paid less in the work place, women who have big breats and a cute face can get better jobs and more promotions, nevermind their education or intellect. The idea behind covering up those 38 EEs is that men should not objectify women and treat them fairly. Obviously this idea has been lost among some Muslims but the basic principle is that would you want your sister, wife, or mother to be showing off her big tits so men can jerk off to it? I hope this is making some sense.

the smartest thing i've heard in a long time.

The man was acquitted, the woman was sentenced to death.

very sad news. Thoughts with all.

thats a situation where muslims around the world should protest and speak out against. but they won't because it does not directly affect them. sharia law is bullshit. i can't believe people would allow their governments to come to that. in similar cases i've heard about in pakistan, these types of things happen among tribal factions who usually are not controlled by the government (as in the patans in northern pakistan) but the good news is that with so much media attention given to pakistan and the governments desire to look good for th US, they have been cracking down on some of these incidents.

bLuE oRdEr wrote: The man was acquitted, the woman was sentenced to death.

Since you're so good at googling, and since you are obviously such an apostle of mercy and truth.... Tell me please how many more times more likely a black skinned woman is to be executed than a white skinned man, in your own bastion and model of freedom, democracy and justice.

Oh and while we're on whacky religious laws.....Darwin? ILLEGAL in some states, forced to be read along side fairy tales in others. WOW, Glad I don't live in one of those oppressive Muslim Countries.

kamar wrote:

Be happy you can enjoy 38 EEs. In the Mid East those are covered up and never seen.

With all the rants about how poorly women are treated by Muslims, isn't yor statement objectifying a womens body? Sexual exploitation of women in America is a billion dollar industry, rapes and other sexual assaults happen everyday, women get paid less in the work place, women who have big breats and a cute face can get better jobs and more promotions, nevermind their education or intellect. The idea behind covering up those 38 EEs is that men should not objectify women and treat them fairly. Obviously this idea has been lost among some Muslims but the basic principle is that would you want your sister, wife, or mother to be showing off her big tits so men can jerk off to it? I hope this is making some sense.

As I understand it the Koran just says both sexes should dress modestly. Which could be interpreted to mean Maoist style unisex boiler suits. And in this day when the fashion seems to be to show off your Calvin Klein underwear, and maybe your arse crack, whether anyone wants to see it or not, there's maybe quite a bit to be said for that. But in practice so many Muslim men seem to intepret this in a completly one-sided sexist way, namely that women have to cover up completely becuase men cannot be expected to control themselves (I guess its too much to ask of the poor dears).

There was a revealing article a while ago when a journalist was interviewing a fundy muslim in a car, when a muslim woman passed by, completely covered from head to toe, and the fundy guy got all worked up and declared it was disgusting, that you could make out the shape of her breasts (if you look hard enough and use your imagination, I guess). I think some of these guys are just projecting their own problems with sex onto women.

Then there was the recent case of the Muslim school girl going to court to demand the right to wear full hijab to her (overwhelmingly muslim) school in violation of the school dress code of a trouser suit (which itself had been agreed with senior muslim scholars). She appeared to be determined to show herself to be a better muslim than her fellow pupils, which seems to me to be the precise opposite of 'dressing modestly'. Effectively she was demanding the right to dress according to a Gulf Arab interpretation of the Koran rather than the South Asian interpretation that prevailed at the school. E.g. it was a cultural issue not a religious one. Why she won this case on the grounds of 'religious freedom' is beyond me.

The problem probably isn't either western permissiveness nor Islamic rules, but the sexism of western and muslim men in intepreting their respective cultural rules.

Also I think its a bit dubious to point out the high rape rate in the US, as if it doesn't happen in Muslim countries. And when it does it is less likely to be prosecuted. The ethos in much of the Muslim world seems to be that its the woman's job to avoid provoking the males uncontrollable urges, rather than men learning to control themselves.

(To be fair, I dunno if that's down to Islam or just that those particular countries happen to be culturally backward, as I say, it doesn't seem inherent to the Koran).

Steve Campbell wrote:

bLuE oRdEr wrote: The man was acquitted, the woman was sentenced to death.

Since you're so good at googling, and since you are obviously such an apostle of mercy and truth.... Tell me please how many more times more likely a black skinned woman is to be executed than a white skinned man, in your own bastion and model of freedom, democracy and justice.

Oh and while we're on whacky religious laws.....Darwin? ILLEGAL in some states, forced to be read along side fairy tales in others. WOW, Glad I don't live in one of those oppressive Muslim Countries.

I don't think Muslims are very keen on Darwin either. One of the many things fundy Christians and Muslims agree on. Its really quite suprising the two groups don't get on.

Workers aren't necessarily white male heterosexuals draped head to toe in a boiler suit or sporting mining hat.

A dogmatic Marxist – or someone whose knowledge of Marx extends to that perpetrated by the right may indeed call Secretaries, Civil servants, Teachers, Bank Clerks, Call centre Workers etc members of the bourgeoisie – but in reality that is not the case. There is a professional working class in Western society, and has been a tradition as such dating back to the time of Marx.

This is all a little beside the point. Suffice to say that for the most part, those with the keys to power and with large capital reserves (I’m thinking property speculators, etc) don’t travel on Public Transport.

There are numerous instances of British Security forces operating in and attacking the Republic of Ireland. The most prominent case being the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.

The various points on Islam have been dealt with quite well by others on these boards, and I’m not really going to go into it. As a Socialist, I don’t really respect what anybody believes in – but respect their right to believe in it, so long as it doesn’t affect anyone else’s freedoms.

From my interpretation of the Bible, there is no excuse for killing another Human Being, yet many Christian groups have campaigned for the death penalty. I don’t really think that other Christians can do much about these extremists, who quite flagrantly breach the “shall not kill” rule – apart from condem them – which is what most Muslims have done of the terrorist element.

It would be nice if you could have rational discussions with anybody on this earth, but wherever you go, you find people with twisted views of usually dubious texts. If people thought more and believed less, the world would be a better place.

By any measure, the war on terror has been a failure. In the region of $3000 Billion dollars have been spent so far according to the US treasury. Between 100 and 200 thousand people have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Thousands killed in London, Bali, Madrid, and New York. This killing on both sides (although Id say 1 b52 raid could kill thousands more than 911 in 1 swoop) wont stop until the underlying causes are addressed.

Show me 1 area of the world where a reactionary approach to terrorism has succeeded in stopping it? As Steve Campbell will tell you, Northern Ireland had the single largest military presence per head of civilian population during the late 70s through to the late 90s. I remember being a kid and travelling around there a lot – and there was literally a British Army outpost on the top of every mountain and hill. Checkpoints going into and out of each town. Tens of thousands of Troops. The most advanced military equipment in the world (e.g. night vision goggles in the 70s, etc, etc). More or less unaccountable Police force, free to beat who they like. A shoot to kill policy. All in a province of under 1 million people that you could cycle end to end in a day.

And yet it seemed like the IRA, UFF, etc would never stop growing.

The reactionary approach didn’t work. And it isn’t working in Israel either.

Now you can call Gerry Adams a murdering so and so, or say that UFF volunteers were just a manifestation of otherworldly Evil, and the way to stop them is by killing them, but it isn’t true – because violence breeds violence, galvanises communities and countries, and breeds terrorism.

It wasn’t until the underlying causes of conflict were addressed, that the Northern situation began to improve. It isn’t an Ideal society at the moment – but on this day (July 12th) 10, 20, 30 years ago you couldn’t imagine things would ever be so good.

What the men in bomb belts did is inexcusable. Killing innocents in any area of the world for any cause is wrong. I wont try and justify their religious motivations – just to say that western governments response has to be more sophisticated than it is at present – and must deal with those lost to the violent path while not leading others down it.

There's not much intelligent that any rational human being can say to that. So I'LL post instead. Except that Adams and the UFF ARE as described ( and then some :) (but you're right about the killing them thing, it didn't work, What was it you called that country that did all the whinging about the STK policy tho???)

Not bad going, some cops set fire too up the Ardoyne, and a railway line blown up. Odd, that's not even worth a video slot on news24i. No dogs, no blacks, no irish eh?

Of course, if tony follows the NI solution, Osama bin Laden will be the UK's new education secretary. (hey I'm not complaining about the way things are here, just pointin out the reality of it)

404 error wrote:

Steve Campbell wrote:

bLuE oRdEr wrote: The man was acquitted, the woman was sentenced to death.

Since you're so good at googling, and since you are obviously such an apostle of mercy and truth.... Tell me please how many more times more likely a black skinned woman is to be executed than a white skinned man, in your own bastion and model of freedom, democracy and justice.

Oh and while we're on whacky religious laws.....Darwin? ILLEGAL in some states, forced to be read along side fairy tales in others. WOW, Glad I don't live in one of those oppressive Muslim Countries.

If we make it a black man, instead of a black woman, it's many times more likely. I think that's more about class than race, though, or maybe a combination of class and race. If O.J. Simpson had been a poor black man, he'd likely be on death row. His financial ability to hire a "dream team" of lawyers was a significant advantage that most defendants, black or white, don't enjoy.

Women tend not to get executed as frequently as men, so I changed the gender in my response. Look, I'm not saying "we're good and they're bad." What I was disputing is the immediate rush to say that Islam is a religion of peace every time a bomb goes off. And I think enough people have pointed out the problem with lumping all of Islam in the same basket that I need to acknowledge that, but in a separate post, probably on the Religion & Politics thread.

Teaching Darwin is not illegal in any state. In every state, teaching religious ideas about the origins of man in state schools is an unconstitutional use of the state to promote religion. Private religious schools can teach what they want. Our own right wingnut fundamentalists are doing everything they can to get their religion taught in state schools; that's why you read about teaching Darwin alongside fairy tales.

I don't think Muslims are very keen on Darwin either. One of the many things fundy Christians and Muslims agree on. Its really quite suprising the two groups don't get on.

God's Warrior Twins

I keep forgetting you're all New Order fans, and consequently, by definition, a bit wiser than most. I'm too used to boardbrawling with netnazi's (Usually The US far right/left, but I have a taste for the byteblood of religious tossers [1], racists,Microsoft advocates, and most network flotsum. Trouble is, I always lose my cool first.

Anyway, sorry for getting heated. Probably came down to three things.

1. I think I thought you were saying "us god, them bad", sorry, you were of course actually saying "we're all bastards, it's a matter of degree".
2. I am more than a little hurt by the way everyone has swept NI out of time and space, it's an un-atrocity now. A tad pathetic really that people seem to think it's a numbers game of "my bloodbath's bigger than yours". I don't just mean people here, I mean the UK media as well, there's not a word about the fact that people have tried this shit on London before and had no effect, and not a word of what we had to endure here, you guy have NO idea what security is all about, to be honest I think the only places you'd see the same level as it was here in the 70's (even now) is Isreal's interfaces with the (rest of) palestine, or the Berlin wall at the height the cold war.
3. When I was a kid I thought I was growing up in a world that was moving forward, away from old stupid dupersticions (hmmmm interesting typo...claimed by me :) ) and towards an enlightened future. But I've been sorely dissappointed. There are Entire nations based on Religious culture, and now the USA, who I always looked up to as our most advanced nation, a big pot of all of us mixed up for 200+ years, is being taken over by the same dark puritan forces. We're going backwards to a time of magic and astrology and chicken entrails and the bible. And to be honest I am genuinely angry with the USA for allowing this shit to happen to itself. I'm not a yank hater, rather fond of most of em actually, but I am terrified, utterly shite scared of the way things are going over there, it's like watching Orwell play out on the news. I'm scared for the Americans themselves, and for the rest of us cos, well, as Bill Hicks said the last thing we need is fundamentalist Christians sitting with their finger on the button saying "tell me when lord". Never mind the appaling things being done to freedom in the name of freedom ("freedom is slavery")

[1]Religious tossers, being those who "god this" and "jesus that" and would in reality have phoned the police at the sight of a hairy middle eastern man surrounded by 12 others going round praching peace and love. Religious tossers are distinct from those who have a faith and shut up about it, and those who actually act out the principles of their religion.....which in the case of most major religions biols down to "And the Lord sayeth unto man, "wouldst thou for fucks sake at least TRYETH not to be a complete cunt your WHOLE life"". Sadly, the Religious Tossers, would have heard that message, and started a war over whether The Almighty should have used double or single quotes.

Steve Campbell wrote:

2. I am more than a little hurt by the way everyone has swept NI out of time and space, it's an un-atrocity now. A tad pathetic really that people seem to think it's a numbers game of "my bloodbath's bigger than yours". I don't just mean people here, I mean the UK media as well, there's not a word about the fact that people have tried this shit on London before and had no effect, and not a word of what we had to endure here, you guy have NO idea what security is all about, to be honest I think the only places you'd see the same level as it was here in the 70's (even now) is Isreal's interfaces with the (rest of) palestine, or the Berlin wall at the height the cold war.

Here goes World War III.

In my younger days, I was pro-republican. NOT pro-terrorism, but just thought the Brits should get out of Northern Ireland, and that all of Ireland should be the Republic.

I think it's more complex than that, now. I mean, what do you do? Do the British just pull out, and leave it to the paramilitaries to slaughter each others families off? The catholics were and still are oppressed and targeted. The Orangemen parade routes are deliberately calculated to humiliate the catholics and remind them who's in charge (although maybe that's changed now?). On the other hand, the British were decidedly biased in favor of the protestant paramilitaries, so it's not as if they were actually keeping the peace. More like making sure there was no change in the balance of power.

But in the larger context, the terrorism in N.I. was part of the older struggle to take Ireland back from the British. Unfinished business. The British never had any legitimate claim to any part of Ireland, and it was right for the Irish to run them out. But what do you do with the Northern Counties with an ethnic Scottish majority (I don't think it's a religious war, I think it's a nationalist war, but you can tell who's who by their religion.)? Should they become a minority in the Republic? Should they continue to enjoy majority status as a separate nation on the island? If so, what of the catholics, who are now a minority in their own land, courtesy of British policy? What's just? I don't know. But it's become clear that the IRA is, in the end, just a bunch of thugs, just like their protestant counterparts.

Maybe the only thing left is for the catholics and the proddies to put down their arms, forget about each trying to get a leg up on the other, and just get down to the business of living together in a just peace.

3. When I was a kid I thought I was growing up in a world that was moving forward, away from old stupid dupersticions (hmmmm interesting typo...claimed by me :) ) and towards an enlightened future. But I've been sorely dissappointed.

I thought the same thing. I was just thinking about that the other night. I thought when the older generation finally died off, we'd have a better world. But the old hatreds seem to find new life in every generation.

There are Entire nations based on Religious culture, and now the USA, who I always looked up to as our most advanced nation, a big pot of all of us mixed up for 200+ years, is being taken over by the same dark puritan forces. We're going backwards to a time of magic and astrology and chicken entrails and the bible. And to be honest I am genuinely angry with the USA for allowing this shit to happen to itself. I'm not a yank hater, rather fond of most of em actually, but I am terrified, utterly shite scared of the way things are going over there

Half of us agree with you.

Really, more than half-- not everybody who voted Bush likes the direction of this country, as poll after poll has demonstrated. A lot of people voted Bush because he played on their fear of terrorism, and that was enough, barely, to give him a majority of what, 51%? I don't know how the numbers break down, but Bush's base of support is: social conservatives (fundamentalist Christians) and fiscal conservatives; the fiscal conservatives don't even necessarily agree with the social conservatives. The people who put him over the top were the voters he terrified with "images" of terrorism if he lost.

the arab-israeli conflict is also an ethnic conflict rather than a religious one. during the 1970s, many of the most violent attacks against jewish israelis were perpetrated by palestinian christians (between 15-20% of the palestinian population), although the islamist hamas and IJ are the largest terrorist organizations active within the occupied territories today, and therefore the most well-known.

still, both sides have used religion to justify their killing of one another, since appealing to faith seems to be the most effective way to provoke people to hate. actually, it's about land and who 'deserves' to live on this slice of earth the size of new jersey.

Could you imagine fighting like that over New Jersey?

bLuE oRdEr wrote: Could you imagine fighting like that over New Jersey?

my landfill can beat up your landfill!

My toxic dump is more toxic than your toxic dump!

AgentWood wrote:

Where did you get that pic of Spike's house? :D

New Jersey is the abode of the Aqua Teen Hunger Force...so of course it's worth fighting over!

Blue, man, I think I'm gonna pin your post up round town under the heading "looks folks, someone in the US with a clue about this place". The parades are a really tricky one, I mean really, in their owm right they're a mad thing.

There was a time, pre "troubles" ( I dunno if the rest of the world knows, but that's what we had.."troubles"...gotta love the English gift for understatement) when the parades were just some blokes remembering a battle, the bands played mainly hymns, and were relatively welcome in catholic areas (many catholics would come out and watch indeed...and not for their latter day reasons). I think the relative peace was down to them thinking they ran the country (they did). As the Republicans revolted (and I honestly don't blame them one bit), they felt threatened. Like all bullie, when they're threatened they get louder and nastier. Out with the Hymns and in with stopping for ten minutes in front of the chapel and playing "fuck the pope" tunes good and loud. In that period (70's and 80's) any violence asociate with the parades was almost exclusvely the work of the bands, some of whom were little more than bussed in barmy armies, the orange lodges themselves were still primarily made up of respectable gentlemen, however unpleasant their veiws. However through the 90's the lodges themselves filled up with spides ( what the mainlanders call chavs, tracksuited braindeads with the Dakek's outlook on the world "you are different you must be exterminated"), and that's where we get things like Drumcree. This was of course made much worse by the fact that genuine political progress had been made, and they just went into "pissing on lampposts mode". It all got silly, like the parade routes were somehow Godgiven sacred golden roads. At the same time, certain nationalist shit stirrers strted arriving in areas that were contentious to wind people up more. It all looked really scarey for a while.

this year however things went relatively well, even the crazy bastards in Derry managed to work it all out and still say nice things about each other when it was all over. The ones in portadown, have been bending over backwards to show they aren't just about hatred (shades of a KKK PR campaign). in fact about from one little bomb, it was OK ish.

there was trouble but in a couple of areas, and perhaps this will explain why I crack up at anyone who seems to be on one far end of a debate and won't see the other side (I'll argue a posistion with someone, then the next day argue the opposite with someone else, just to make them think about what they believe....and cos I'm a wanker :D )...

We have a thing called the parades commission, and everything they do is wrong for somone. They can do no righ, and neither can the cops. At drumcree, the Police enforce the decision to stop the chaps marchin, and they are hated for it and attacked ( tho not this year). If they enforce a decision allowing them to pass ( usually tho not always an area where the locals are "trying it on", and not really in mortal peril), the locals attack them. As happened tonight in Belfast....cops taking Molotov hits on behalf of the same cunts who'll be lobbing them at them in a week or two.

TBH, the huge majority of people here really don't care, and most of the ones that care don't have a clue (try explaining to a prod band member that his "flute" is a fyfe and that King Billie was a Catholic sent here partly on behlaf of the pope). Most of us want to get very drunk and dance til sunrise with anyone who's up for it. I mean I live in the UK (bit of Ireland), but I call myself Irish cos the Island seeps into you :).

As for Persecution of Catholics, it's been an on off thing. There were some real horrors through the ages, not least the spud famine ( they don't tell us in prod school that Ireland was full of non spud foods, just that the Irish werent allowed to eat em). Then again, what kicked off the civil rights movement and in turn the terrorism(well barring one or two things previous), was exactly what you're talking about, total domination by prods.

Each side has it;s legends, some are true,...."no catholics in the yard" (not so true anymore, but then there's precious few people of any kind in it, the titanic's berth lies empty) "no prods in TV" (that one still holds to an extent, especially at UTV where they have a couple of junior reporters who demand all the "nasty prod" stories so they can go and be painful about them.

And that's the core of it, people being whiney and painful about things long since past, playing tit for tat like stupid children.

It's about clever politicians stirring it to make money It's about clever paramilitary bosses on both sides meeting regularly to keep the people down in all the right areas, to the extent that the loyalist/nationalist divide is meaningless above a certain level, maintained as a smokescreen for mafiosa style activies (without the style) it's about drugs, childwhores and protection rackets. And it's about moronic intransigence on both sides allowing it all to happen, and govt.s without a bald fucking notion what to do ("hey lets pull troops straight out of a warzon and put them in a crowd control environment, then look surprised when bloody sunday happens"). And it IS about poverty, you'll never see a rich kid behind the barricades (it's not a cool thing to do like in the states where a lot of your anti-everything protesters seem to have 14 credit cards and Daddy's car). But it's about stupidity too. We've been poor most of our lives, not scratching in the dirt, but barely making it. And yet despite my mum's rather old fashioned views, neither me nor my brother has turned out to be a UVF moron....because we are not morons. Every person I ever met here with genuine hatred in their hearts for the other side.....was a sub Britney-spears moron, a barely living creature.

As long as their are poor morons and smart rich guys to string them along for God ( or whatever), so as to gain power for themselves, we'll have rioters and terrorists.

As for charging to the defense of Islam, well it's more to balance the books cos there is always some nutter on the telly spitting blood about them. It IS fundamentally a religion of peace, like Christianity, but like CHristianity, it can be twisted. What makes it special is only their devotion to their relgion, easier to turn out an extremist if his faith, his tolerance of religious BS is higher, and his reason crushed, for no reasonable human being could commit these acts. Of course Islam has a responsibility to lay down the message firmly that this shit means you go to hell, but I do not believe it should be irradicated until all the other religions are purged and humanity gets moving again.

Oh agentwood, good point about Isreali palestine conflict, and well done everyone for realising that saying you think Isreal are being gits doesn't mean you have a problem with jews (no more or less than any other religion at any rate). And as I think I mentioned earlier, something like have of that mad bastard Saddam's party were Christian.

PS....seriously....whay does everyon hate "joysie". Even Orson Well's Radio Martians fecked the place up good.

404 error wrote:

Steve Campbell wrote:

bLuE oRdEr wrote: The man was acquitted, the woman was sentenced to death.

Since you're so good at googling, and since you are obviously such an apostle of mercy and truth.... Tell me please how many more times more likely a black skinned woman is to be executed than a white skinned man, in your own bastion and model of freedom, democracy and justice.

Oh and while we're on whacky religious laws.....Darwin? ILLEGAL in some states, forced to be read along side fairy tales in others. WOW, Glad I don't live in one of those oppressive Muslim Countries.

I don't think Muslims are very keen on Darwin either. One of the many things fundy Christians and Muslims agree on. Its really quite suprising the two groups don't get on.

Well at least we agree that Christians and muslims are both uneducated scum then.

Steve Campbell wrote: PS....seriously....whay does everyon hate "joysie". Even Orson Well's Radio Martians fecked the place up good.

Imagine you're in London...the greatest city in the world, filled with writers, artists, poets, musicians, filmmakers. The rich & the powerful, the captains of industry, powerhouse attorneys and financiers. The little people: waiters, cooks, bike messengers. And the common and cheap, the thugs, petty hoodlums, lowlifes. Soaring architecture, modest homes, and rundown slums.

Now, just outside of London, across the county line, there's a place where all the petty hoodlums go when they get enough money to live in suburbs. A place where corruption and bribery are a way of life. A place where organized crime goes to dump the bodies. A place where everybody is on the make, always looking for a way to put one over on you. A place with all of London's ugliness, and none of its greatness. A place London sends its trash, literally and figuratively.

That's New Jersey.

nope, it's Bangor. Aw shite :)

You wouldn't mind the Martians torchin the place then?

Actually, that's what'd sort us out...Martians, not tom cruise poncey ones, real nasty Wellsian bastard martians, teach humanity a lesson.

I hate that new Movie, it leaves out everything Wells was trying to say...ALL of it, and people need the particular wisdom of the novel rammed down their necks just now.

Thinking of writing to Bush to tell him that he should not allow foreign influences in Hollywood, cos it could pervert the pure American soul, that way they might not re-write and remake everything ever written or made everywhere in the world, into the same crap movie they've made for years.

I mean serioulsy, "the italian job"....is not just fast and furious...and is NOT in Italy, I mean HUH?

Course it wont stop them fucking over America classics, but that's your own fight guys :)

Of course, just a stereotype, with enough truth to back it up. ;)

Steve Campbell wrote:

404 error wrote:

Steve Campbell wrote:

bLuE oRdEr wrote: The man was acquitted, the woman was sentenced to death.

I don't think Muslims are very keen on Darwin either. One of the many things fundy Christians and Muslims agree on. Its really quite suprising the two groups don't get on.

Well at least we agree that Christians and muslims are both uneducated scum then.

Not my opinion. Though it does seem to be that the more forcefully someone expresses their piety the more lacking in self control and genuine morality they are likely to be.

Well with the ranting I do here that puts me somewhere between Home Simpson and Bender.

Steve Campbell wrote: nope, it's Bangor. Aw shite :)

steve, i've been to new jersey and northern ireland; believe me--northern ireland smells a lot better. even the bogside is a treasure compared to newark!;)

ROFLMAO. You never smelled the Lagan before they cleaned it. Egads that was rough.

So in short, if the universe ever needs an enema, it's NOT coming here? WOW.

(Hey terrorists....you hear that?.....that's people laughing.....you lose, bye now)