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this is the first time i've ever seen TV newsreaders turn against the government. i don't mean 'tiptoe around the notion that the government might possibly be making a slight error,' but actually come out and say, in so many words, that the federal government is doing a really shitty job at the moment and bush has no idea what the hell is going on...but he should have known all along.
about damn time.
i'm curious to hear what the're saying over on fox, but my stomach isn't that strong.
AgentWood wrote:
i'm curious to hear what the're saying over on fox, but my stomach isn't that strong.
What they're saying (because I've seen enough to know):
Bill O'Reilly: Grumble grumble grumble New York Times grumble liberal bias grumble politicize grumble grumble ham sandwich grumble grumble beer? yes please grumble :drink:
Sean Hannity: Yap yap yap liberals yap yap yap Bush bestest president since Reagan yap yap yap Ann Coulter's booby yap yap yap closet case yap yap yap yap yawn pause for hot air intake...yap yap yap 
Greta Van Sustern: Natalee Holloway...oh, and New Orleans, but mostly Natalee 
Fox and Friends: wacky morning banter hey ain't CNN biased? wacy morning banter we're so clever wacky morning banter fuck you liberal media! wacky morning banter who needs to find Osama anyway? wacky morning banter 
Notice no criticism of Government inaction...:p
i did bite the bullet and look at america's newspaper, the washington times.
notice how the department of homeland security is covered versus the coverage of FEMA?
I just hope New Order fans from around the world don't think all Americans are as retarded as George W. I voted for John Kerry last year so I'm proud to say I wasn't one of the 50+ million stupid people.
Jay993 wrote: I just hope New Order fans from around the world don't think all Americans are as retarded as George W.
only the few who make false assumptions rather than valid ones.
most of the confusion is over what the term 'football' means.
Jay993 wrote: I just hope New Order fans from around the world don't think all Americans are as retarded as George W. I voted for John Kerry last year so I'm proud to say I wasn't one of the 50+ million stupid people.
Ditto ditto 
Trying to take the partisan blinders off. FEMA and the National Guard were on standby before the shit hit the fan. OK now, deployment of supplies and the logistics involved in distributing them are two totally different things. Clearly, FEMA dropped the ball in the South -- of this there's no dispute.
Next problem -- use of force (lethal or non-lethal) against US citizens in a disaster area. First thing, a dusk-to-dawn curfew should be implemented. I have several friends here who are Guardsmen. All were sent to New Orleans just after the hurricane hit. I spoke to two of them just last night -- the place is a mess and they've been given powers of arrest.
Look, it's not a political thing, it's FEMA's deal. They're the ones who messed it up, not Bush, not Kennedy, not anyone else.
But what responsibility did the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO have? Seems to me that if your city is ripe for a natural disaster of this magnitude, and people have been saying this for years, some sort of plan should have been ready. Sitting on the roof top bitching about the Federal government not bailing your entitled ass out is not a plan. If my house is on fire my children know how to get the fuck out. Now not everyone is able to leave a large city on 3 days notice. BUT the city and State should have had some system of evacuation of the poor, elderly and infirm.
I suppose next time FEMA and the NG should sit back and and watch CNN and deploy relief workers where the reporters are.
I do not actually care who's fault it is. I'm just tryin to wrap my head around people in the world's richest, most advanced nation, dying like like they're from some 3rd world ass end of nowhere...in fact worse.
As I say, it sort of proves what the crazies have been saying all along that FEMA camps are not for evacuees, but concentration camps for when nationwide marshall law is declared....otherwise, call me insane, but I rather think THIS might be the kind of thing they'd be good for.
People in china were rescued faster, people in bangladesh get aid faster. One thing's for sure, the rest of us wont be putting the USA in charge of anything more important than maming sure the cat doesn't get out, until you can elect a GOVT. who can read, write, and understand science, not fairly tales.
Can you imagine the belly laughs the US-real enemies are getting out of this..."if he does this to his own, think what he has planned for the rest of us" type sthings.
Funny Fema id OK after 911....or did they put someone else in charge of getting NYC back online in 3 days? (may I suggest sending WHOEVER it was to NO...about FYCKING NOW!!!!!!"
Those NYT articles were real interesting, I'm sure it'll be closed(more likely burned) down soon. Been reading the NO times too, scary scary biccies.
I love the "who could know" attitude some of those in charge are spouting....well YOU could know....as your own survey said that terroists in NYC, hurricanes in NO and The big one in Ca were the three biggest threats. Well, they met the first one well (before george went on his campaign to swell Al-Q's ranks with volunteers), made a pig's ballsack of the 2nd. GET OUT OF Ca NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
one good thing i see coming out of this is that republicans will lose seats because of the lack of protection for the people. After all the fed govt is ran by republicans.
its easy to pass around blame, it's a very difficult situation... but Bush supporters advertise him as a man of decisive action, a strong man to defend americans, and the problem here was a lack of decisive action... the federal gov't had a wait and see attitude and Bush only got involved when it became obvious that this was a major disaster and that more people were going to die
the people affected the worst are some of the poorest people in the United States... if these people who are refugees were middle class white people, they would have acted like this was a war zone and taken much faster action trying to evacuate people to military bases... maybe not direct racism but a sign of what is important... the "culture of life" morality is very flexible
twist wrote: Trying to take the partisan blinders off. FEMA and the National Guard were on standby before the shit hit the fan. OK now, deployment of supplies and the logistics involved in distributing them are two totally different things. Clearly, FEMA dropped the ball in the South -- of this there's no dispute.
Next problem -- use of force (lethal or non-lethal) against US citizens in a disaster area. First thing, a dusk-to-dawn curfew should be implemented. I have several friends here who are Guardsmen. All were sent to New Orleans just after the hurricane hit. I spoke to two of them just last night -- the place is a mess and they've been given powers of arrest.
Look, it's not a political thing, it's FEMA's deal. They're the ones who messed it up, not Bush, not Kennedy, not anyone else.
But what responsibility did the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO have? Seems to me that if your city is ripe for a natural disaster of this magnitude, and people have been saying this for years, some sort of plan should have been ready. Sitting on the roof top bitching about the Federal government not bailing your entitled ass out is not a plan. If my house is on fire my children know how to get the fuck out. Now not everyone is able to leave a large city on 3 days notice. BUT the city and State should have had some system of evacuation of the poor, elderly and infirm.
I suppose next time FEMA and the NG should sit back and and watch CNN and deploy relief workers where the reporters are.
part of my reason for putting up the link to washington times article is this: FEMA is now under the umbrella of the department of homeland security. so how can one blame FEMA while not criticizing the new organization that was created to make disaster prevention, preparation and resolution more streamlined?
you're right about the dusk-to-dawn curfew (we had one here after charley), but the police were simply outgunned. not to mention that 1/3 of all new orleans police turned in their badges--i saw a report last night in which a NOPD officer blasted his former colleagues for abandoning their posts and behaving in a cowardly manner.
does any large city have a system of evacuation for the poor and infirm? i'm serious about this, because i don't know the answer.
Cover of the tabloid New York Daily news
Shame of the nation
Also there is awesome column in today's NYtimes by the fantastic lady Maureen Dowd. I advise you to look it up.
I switched CNN on this morning to see Castro offering 26 tons in medical supplies and 1,000 volunteer surgeons to the U.S.
I read in someone's comment on another site (therefor I can neither confirm nor vouch for it's authenticity) that someone who phoned FEMA, asking to donate was instead advised to give said donation to Pat Robertson (is that what you call him?)'s something or other fund.
WTF, a federal agency advising a citizen to support a rightwing extremist over helping black people????????
As I said, I've always been scred he'd start a war between humanity and the USA, but it seems he wants to thin out the internal populace first.
GET OUT OF THERE ALL OF YOU NOW!
(bit shit to go as it's rather a nice country from what I've seen of it, but better alive than dead...i say bail)
It's a natural disater. Shit really does happen.
But the chaos that has ensued in new orleans hits really hard because you start wondering how stable is the community you live in?
Ask Steve Campbell or Maya about 'shit happening' in their hometowns, that stuff was not natural.
But who am I to comment?
Barney Army wrote: It's a natural disater. Shit really does happen.
But the chaos that has ensued in new orleans hits really hard because you start wondering how stable is the community you live in?
Ask Steve Campbell or Maya about 'shit happening' in their hometowns, that stuff was not natural.
But who am I to comment?
if you want to see a city which has had the worst combination of natural and man-made disasters (thanks in part to ronald reagan) over the past century and is the centre of the black hole of bad luck, go to managua, nicaragua. earthquakes, volcanoes, dictators, civil war...you name it. it's the cesspool of all cesspools; even the nicaraguenses despise their capital city. i was stuck there for 3 days because of the christmas holiday before i could get over to leon (the centre of sandinista politics and a much nicer city, despite being bombed by the last of the general somozas).
still, i want to go back this winter break. great country, crappy capital city.
twist wrote: Look, it's not a political thing, it's FEMA's deal. They're the ones who messed it up, not Bush, not Kennedy, not anyone else.
But it is a political thing. Bush says it's not political because he's the fuckup who's responsible. As long as he can get people to believe that he's not the fuckup who's responsible, by saying "let's not play politics," then the buck ends up somewhere else: FEMA, mother nature, uppity black folks, anywhere but on his desk.
Heres' why it's political:
(1) Global warming. Bush has spent his entire presidency pretending it doesn't exist. He's fought tooth and nail to prevent the U.S. from taking any steps to slow down and reverse global warming. If it doesn't exist, you don't have to take any steps to stop it.
Here's what we know about global warming that's relevant to New Orleans: The Southeast coast of the U.S. is the most vulnerable part of the U.S. to global warming impacts. We can expect bigger storms, more often. Anybody who's read the scientific reports knows this. Bush asks how he could have known beforehand? He's a lying sack of shite.
Hurricanes have been happening since weather began-- about 6000 years now, according to the Bush crowd. It would be totally unfair to blame Bush for a hurricane. We've been headed for a global warming disaster since before Bush was born, so it would be totally unfair to blame Bush for causing global warming as well. BUT, Bush has worked vigorously to prevent the world's largest emitter of greenhouse gases from curbing its emissions. Clearly, he places the welfare of his oil and coal conies above the welfare of every living being on this planet. He's fiddled while the planet burns, so it is fair to blame him for the the devastation resulting from global warming.
(2) Flood control. Bush has cut flood control funding for New Orleans every single year since the Iraq vendetta. He asks how he could have known beforehand? FEMA-- the agency Bush wants to blame-- reported to him at the beginning of his presidency that the top 3 emergencies the U.S. faces are (1) a terrorist attack in New York City; (2) a hurricane in New orleans, and (3) an earthquake in San Francisco.
We've all seen how he sat around with his thumb up his ass while bin Laden sent terrorists to pilot school in Florida, and we've all seen how he sat around with his thumb up his ass while those same terrorists flew planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon.
Now we come to New Orleans, and he's cut flood control funding every year. $250 million in repairs were needed, but he sent that money to fund his family vendetta in Iraq instead. Meanwhile, he let his developer buddies build on the delta wetlands and barrier islands-- nature's flood control system. And Bush asks how he could have known?
San Francisco's next. Funny how the top 3 national emergency problems in the U.S.-- emergencies Bush has ignored-- are blue cities. And he says "Let's not play politics"?
(3) The disaster relief. Whether he likes it or not, Bush is the President, and thus responsible. If FEMA fucked up, it's still up to Bush to get the ball rolling. But he couldn't be bothered. No, he was busy vacationing at his ranch. Sure, he could interrupt his vacation to rush back to DC to intervene in the Terry Schiavo debacle, but interrupt his vacation to get the ball rolling on disaster relief for a few hundred thousand poor black people? The whole world saw what he did with that one. He kept right on vacationing.
When he finally did get off his candy ass and tour the area, he was dazed by what he saw. Why? He's the President-- why doesn't the President know what's going on in the worst disaster area the nation has ever witnessed? The rest of the world knew what was going on-- what's his excuse?
But what responsibility did the Governor of LA and the Mayor of NO have? Seems to me that if your city is ripe for a natural disaster of this magnitude, and people have been saying this for years, some sort of plan should have been ready.
The plan is: (1) Make the flood control repairs; Bush spent the money on his family vendetta instead, and sent the rest as tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans; (2) FEMA coordinates emergency relief; FEMA is under Homeland Security, which reports to the President, so ultimately, Bush is the fuckup in charge.
The Governor can declare a state of emergency, which allows the federal government to begin relief efforts. The Governor did her job. The Governor can send in the National Guard-- except they're on duty in Bush's family vendetta.
The mayor can declare martial law. He did that. The mayor can deply the police. He did that. The mayor can ask for federal assistance. He did that.
While the mayor and Governor were doing their jobs, Bush was on vacation at his ranch.
Sitting on the roof top bitching about the Federal government not bailing your entitled ass out is not a plan. If my house is on fire my children know how to get the fuck out.
Some people are so poor that they don't have a car. Some people are so poor that they don't have money to put gas in a car. Some people don't know anybody who has the money to put gas in a car. Some people are so poor they can't buy a bus ticket or a train ticket to get out of town. Some people are old and sick and in wheelchairs.
Maybe we should blame them.
Now not everyone is able to leave a large city on 3 days notice. BUT the city and State should have had some system of evacuation of the poor, elderly and infirm.
And where does FEMA-- the Federal Emergency Management Agency-- fit into all of this disaster planning?
Barney Army wrote: It's a natural disater. Shit really does happen.
Shit happens, but Bush has known for years, and DID NOTHING. That's not a natural disaster-- it's a policy choice.
leeharveyoswaldR.I.P1963 wrote: Cover of the tabloid New York Daily news
Shame of the nation
Also there is awesome column in today's NYtimes by the fantastic lady Maureen Dowd. I advise you to look it up.
"Let's not play politics."-- George W. Bush.
Whatever, George.
Barney Army wrote: It's a natural disater. Shit really does happen.
But the chaos that has ensued in new orleans hits really hard because you start wondering how stable is the community you live in?
Ask Steve Campbell or Maya about 'shit happening' in their hometowns, that stuff was not natural.
But who am I to comment?
Tis true that the stuff that fucks you over here is man made. But it's made up for by....
I don't think anyone's blaming bush for making the wind blow[1], but the fact is, that this is the worst response to any natural disaster from a developed nation that I think anyone has ever seen. there is an excellent agency set up to deal with this ( that now seems to be part of the secret polic....I'm sorry, I mean Homeland Security), an agency that has responded adequately, MORE than adeqately in the past (AND without using many of the powers at it's disposal), yet this time it sat in inaction while this was permitted to happen. And the general feeling seems to be that the troops were only finally sent in in limitd numbers to protect the interests of business from looters (tho I would hope that even brainwashed soldiers wont shoot hungry people for taking bread. VCR's shoot em, Bread, leave em be).
You said about shit happening here, well it does. When I was a kid(like pram, goooga wooga etc etc) the IRA dissappeared the CBD of Bangor overnight. The next day the police rippedthe house accross the road from ours to pieces, it seems the cell had been staying their while planning, for almost a year. Since then there have been 3(posssibly more, but 3 is all I can recall) major attacks on the town, 2 at the lower seafront end, and one at the top, which was so powerful it moved the 15-yrold postoffice back 6 inches.
Many people live on those streets in the appartments above the shops, some were hurt, most weren't. But I don't recall anyon ever having to spend a night outside or go hungry. Even in the aftermath of the Omagh bomb, no one was left homeless or hungry, in all the chaos of the cleanup, ot only the residents of Omagh, but visitors to the place too shocked or hurt to go home, but not bad enough for the hospitals, everyone was fed and accomadted. Obviously N.Orleans dwarfs Omagh, but then, the USA dwarfs N Ireland in resources and manpower (Omagh is so small, that the 29 who were murdered actually constitute a significantly larger percentage of the populace than were affected by the WTC attacks, but silly statistics don't bring people back from either).
Can you imagine how the USA's enemies are reacting to this, OMG they must be rolling around, and milking it for every bit of "uncaring capitalists" and "evil infidel" propaganda. He(his administration and his officials too of course, but as I was saying above, the final responsibilty rests sqarely in front of the window of the oval office) aint just hurting people in N orleans, he's hurtig the whole nation in SO many ways, internally AND in the eyes of the world.
[1] ALTHOUGH, IF ( and I say IF cos it's FAR from factual) global warming is happening as stated, then his refusal to sign up to anything that means the US has to act like grown ups and be responsible, could well be a contributing factor (tho more likely it will be so for a hurricane 20 years from now) :)
Barney Army wrote: great insight to livin in another place mate.
Which is what this website is about yeh?
Insight.
Did you see what I did there?
are you talkin to yourself mate? that's not good, I know cos I do it lots :)
Yeah I know, there are more persistent, more pervassive, ugly sides to it than just the odd bomb. And there are one or two areas, that....well let's just say the Brits live longer in close quarters in Iraq BECAUSE of those areas. But for once I thought I'd be positive about the place. Genuinely THE nicest thing is that 10 mins in any direction from my house by foot, and I'm surrounded by either green or blue, and if a car is added in, 10 mins can take me to waterfalls, rolling hills, lakes, dense forest, you name it. And that holds even for most bits of Belfast. The land is just too, too "fuck you I'm Ireland and I'm gonna sit here and be ireland and you see if you can feckin stop me". It could never be utterly tamed it permits us to live here, nothing more. It's why, although I'm (MANY generations) scots on both sides, and carry a UK passport, if you ask me, I'm irish, cos Ireland runs thru me.
I was just musing to myself..... "what would happen to me if it(N Orleans) were here and now and no one helped". And the short answer is, I'd be boned as a dogfish! As you probably know, I'm off work on the sick, had no income from may unril like 3 weeks ago (and that's subsistence benefits, enough to get by on, but not enough to struggle back outta the hole of the last few months with. There is supposedly backpay coming from the social services, because my employer fucked me by not telling me I had to apply, but although they keep saying it'll show, it doesn't).
No car, and not in much conidtion to walk very far, even here. If I was in Louisiana (the only place on earth more humid than Bangor as far as I can tell), the climate would have me in agony (as keeping my skin dry, especially near sweat glands is essential, yeah that's gonna work in a swamp). No money for transport, nothing. I'd just have to move my shit upstairs and dig in as best I could. Of course such food that is in the freezer and fridge will spoil in HOURS in such a climate, leaving only what tinned foods are around (do you have manual can openers over there?), with no means of cooking save for lighting a fire indoors. I reckon after 2 days I'd be a desperate animal (bear in mind that sometimes the pain and the imprisonment have me like that anyway as my family and GF will attest). Thank God I have no time for guns ( and would have none even if they were leagal (actually, I think up until recently I could have got one as my old boy is a cop), or I'm sure I'd be a gun toting maniac by this stage.
the more I try to put myself in their posistion, but with my own financial and physical circumstances the nastier it feels. Of course if I phone to donate, they'll tell me to donate to the feckin nazi party instead.
yeh, but look on the bright side...
New Order are bringing out a new LP next year.
Sorry to sound flippant Steve, but New Order are bringing out a new LP next year.
If you needed a new roof on your house and you knew that the next time it rained all your possessions would be ruined you would do what was necessary. So you go to your bank and they either turn your loan request down or do not lend you enough money to fix your roof. What do you do now. Ignore the problem and pretend it will go away or do you take ownership of the situation and seek the funds somewhere else? New Orleans and the State of Louisiana chose the first option, ignore the situation. As many dumb ass frat boys that go there every year and drunken college girls that flash their titties every Mardis Gras for Girls Gone Stupid videos I think the city could have been creative in finding a source of revenue. A band measure or an increase in the alcohol tax or a stick it to the tourists plan could have made up for the lack of federal fundage.
Even more important, what did the Governor and the Mayor have planned? Did they call GreyHound to ask for bus to help evacuate those lacking the means to leave? What about all the public school bus sitting there in 3 feet of water? Why were they not mobilized to help move people out? Was there a written disaster plan? Or was this a city such a welfare entrenched society that they could not think for themselves except to complain.
And why would Bush want to fuck this up? This could have been a political goldmine. Big brother on white horse rescuing the unfortunates of New Orleans. Politicians love this shit. Hates minorites?? He has been kissing the Hispanic vote since Day One. Has a very genetically diverse staff. He made gains in the black vote and could still, if he can bullshit his way through this, get even more. Rudi G was on his political deathbed before 9/11. Now look at him as a potential presidential contender.
This is not Florida where despite getting whacked five times in one year where people dig out and the only crime is from drunken roofers and where the damage is geographically limited to a much smaller space. This is a major US city majorly flooded and that failed to evacuate and having an obvious very low form of life (child rapers ect). Florida also has tougher building codes (planning ahead). But I guess New Orleans had different values. Prevention of a major disaster was not one of them.
As an non-american it is sad to see all that is going on there. Every catastrophe is handled easily in Hollywood-movies, but in reality... Oh my god...
i heard on the beeb that el salvador has better disaster planning than the US. not surprising.
