Islam and repairing Britain

ROCKET MICK wrote: you got a bus station YET

A BEWT and on a good DAY you can check out any time you want BUT you can NEver LEAVE.Welcome back and CHeers to U and OURkid.LEGENDS and MANc's Finest.

JUST like the BUS stop near the PUB. nice to be back NO MORE chokey AND prison regs for ME, I am turning OVER a NEW broom and putting on MY TOP HAT and eating PUPPY dog tales, oh yes the REFORM schooling will work...THIS TIME.

CHORLEY dont SURF

What would I do with a woman???

KILL em...as per

Mansour Ali wrote: Leaving economics aside, social issues i refer to here.

Does anybody rate the teachings of Islam?

Personally I feel behaviours like fasting, absence of alcohol and modest clothing are all good starting points.

Even just prohibiting alcohol you signficantly reduce car accidents, violence, rape, A+E admissions, premature death, mental health problems....

anyway, discuss.....

Ahhhhhh Your status as a fucktard now reveals it's origins. A sky fairy believer.

Nuff said.

Please put the evil computer away, it is a product of satan's science.

Why did you have to bring science into a discussion about religion? You know it's based on reason and logic?

Knuckles wrote: Why did you have to bring science into a discussion about religion? You know it's based on reason and logic?

You do realize that religon saved science and kept it going after the fall of the Roman Empire.

The two answer different questions anyways: Religon - why we are here and how to act?; Science - What makes us and the universe work? The two have worked together for thousands of years, but only recently have we seperated the two (now watch someone give me high school level thoughts on Galileo or other such problems, but not really understanding the history of science).

The main problem with Islam are that the teachings and the leading figure (Muhammed) do two grossly different things. There really isn't anything wrong with the Kuran. Actually a good read, and something everyone can pull something worthwhile from... but when the founder was hell bent on eridicating those that didn't follow him, well there in lies a problem... there are those in Islam that follow the Kuran, and are peaceful Islamics, adaptable to society. The others follow Muhammed and believe his actions were a template on how they should act.

So answering your original question really depends on which form of Islam that is followed.

EdelBrock wrote:

Knuckles wrote: Why did you have to bring science into a discussion about religion? You know it's based on reason and logic?

You do realize that religon saved science and kept it going after the fall of the Roman Empire.

The two answer different questions anyways: Religon - why we are here and how to act?; Science - What makes us and the universe work? The two have worked together for thousands of years, but only recently have we seperated the two (now watch someone give me high school level thoughts on Galileo or other such problems, but not really understanding the history of science).

Nah, I've got university thoughts on Galileo, just wrote an essay on him. He definitely saw things in ways that nobody thought to consider. Saw the moons of Jupiter and said Copernicus was right.

You are right - they answer different questions, but as the Doctor says, the sky fairy doesn't really tell us much about much.

P.S. Edel, I just finished uni too so I know how you feel.

P.P.S. Look at me telling you my life story... who am i? No Holiday?

Snap.

Knuckles wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

Knuckles wrote: Why did you have to bring science into a discussion about religion? You know it's based on reason and logic?

You do realize that religon saved science and kept it going after the fall of the Roman Empire.

The two answer different questions anyways: Religon - why we are here and how to act?; Science - What makes us and the universe work? The two have worked together for thousands of years, but only recently have we seperated the two (now watch someone give me high school level thoughts on Galileo or other such problems, but not really understanding the history of science).

Nah, I've got university thoughts on Galileo, just wrote an essay on him. He definitely saw things in ways that nobody thought to consider. Saw the moons of Jupiter and said Copernicus was right.

You are right - they answer different questions, but as the Doctor says, the sky fairy doesn't really tell us much about much.

P.S. Edel, I just finished uni too so I know how you feel.

P.P.S. Look at me telling you my life story... who am i? No Holiday?

Snap.

Congrats on the degree

The "high school" thing wasn't directed at you, its just the favorite example used to show how "Christianity kept science down", when on the whole it kept it afloat and actually help it flourish. There was much in-fighting on to what degree science should take shape... just as much as there are questions about that now. Truth of the matter is science has always been a handmaiden, in the past to religon, now to government... its never stood on its own, and probably never will.

El Jarvo wrote:

Next you'll be telling us that we should all be Cafflicks. Cos, of course, none of them ever have sex before marriage then we'd reduce the number of STI's, single muthas, unwanted pregnancies, broken homes, abortions, etc, etc.

Jeezus, how many Cafflicks do you actually know?

Keep the faith, Al

Am Cafflick - ish

EdelBrock wrote:

Knuckles wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

Knuckles wrote: Why did you have to bring science into a discussion about religion? You know it's based on reason and logic?

You do realize that religon saved science and kept it going after the fall of the Roman Empire.

The two answer different questions anyways: Religon - why we are here and how to act?; Science - What makes us and the universe work? The two have worked together for thousands of years, but only recently have we seperated the two (now watch someone give me high school level thoughts on Galileo or other such problems, but not really understanding the history of science).

Nah, I've got university thoughts on Galileo, just wrote an essay on him. He definitely saw things in ways that nobody thought to consider. Saw the moons of Jupiter and said Copernicus was right.

You are right - they answer different questions, but as the Doctor says, the sky fairy doesn't really tell us much about much.

P.S. Edel, I just finished uni too so I know how you feel.

P.P.S. Look at me telling you my life story... who am i? No Holiday?

Snap.

Congrats on the degree

The "high school" thing wasn't directed at you, its just the favorite example used to show how "Christianity kept science down", when on the whole it kept it afloat and actually help it flourish. There was much in-fighting on to what degree science should take shape... just as much as there are questions about that now. Truth of the matter is science has always been a handmaiden, in the past to religon, now to government... its never stood on its own, and probably never will.

That's probably true, but science has usually served society, so when religion was dominant in society it served that. In the early modern period, it began to serve government on a utilitarian basis. It's more independent than it used to be.

But how many lab coats do you see in Riyadh?

perfectly fine being an atheist thanks , if you want to beleive in a sky fairy as cambo says, fine, if you want everyone to beleive what YOU do, i have a problem with that, whatever brand of religion, i don't go around telling everyone to become atheist, never would, it's none of my buisness,as what i beleive is none of yours .

ideally, schools should teach all religions equally, also agnosticism, and people can make up there own minds, also why should everyone believe in one religion, the true teachings of all religions allow peaceful integration between all faiths, as spain did for many years after the inquisition.

I think most western countries, england in particular, have a problem with any religion they would call extreme, the decline in nuns and priests confirms that this is not just relating to eastern religions.

For the record, I was brought up a catholic, and I think the religious education in catholic schools is very blinkered (or at least it was when I was at school, a long time ago!) but I'm now agnostic, saying that I love Christmas!

Also, I have met heavy drinking, drug using, wife beating, misogonyst, thieving, violent hypocrites of all religions, no religion can stamp out that lot.

Burt Reynolds wrote:

Comrade Shampanyov wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote:

bloodynora wrote:

Burt Reynolds wrote: The great thing about religion is, that you have to believe in one, before you can convert to another.

that's not true though, is it?

Not entirely no.. Islam does target the mentally unhinged, weak, and disadvantaged too.

I remember having a conversation recently with a group of Muslims, who were bragging about the conversion of Mike Tyson to Islam.

Actually didnt that recent mentally backward attempted cafe suicide bomber come from somewhere like Bristol? He was English, and led astray by people that wanted to be 'his friends'.

Scientologists?

It's a bit like that over here, cos we haven't yet suffered that lot yet. This particular case was a mentally backward lad who was convinced into suicide bombing a cafe, and ended up setting himself on fire.

I wasn't going to mention this but feel I should after reading it for a second time, just so I can point out that not all 'mentally backward' lads grow up to be attempted suicide bombers. In fact most suicide bombers, or attempted suicide bombers even, have not been diagnosed with any form of mental illness. In this case the lad had been diagnosed with Aspergers Symndrome, which is an autistic spectrum disorder (ASD). I know a lot about it because my 6 year old lad has it. And my lad ain't mentally backward, in fact he's got a farkin huge IQ. He just has problems with social interaction and interpretating the hidden signals that we use and take for granted every day. There, I've said it.....:\ohwell:

Mansour Ali wrote: The other big issue, womens clothing. There is no reason for women to be scantily clad, or indeed men, at any time. There is no good reason for it other than freedom (freedom to what, encourage male predators).

Arranged marriages are also a good thing in general for societal stability.

http://www.match.com/

Dodjem wrote:

Mansour Ali wrote: The other big issue, womens clothing. There is no reason for women to be scantily clad, or indeed men, at any time. There is no good reason for it other than freedom (freedom to what, encourage male predators).

Arranged marriages are also a good thing in general for societal stability.

http://www.match.com/

http://www.adultsheepfinder.com/

You are lucky, my text disappeared...

All the European countries which host a huge muslim minority face the same problems.

First of all, this remains minority. I cannot see why the majority would have to follow a minority art de vivre. In these minorities a lot of people try to integrate in the country they are. And you can claim all you want, the ones who cause them the more problems are not the ones of the majority, but the Holy Guards of their minority.

I know Brits and French like to hate themselves, by tradition, sake of history. We can claim that we are living in the two most different countries in the world, the problem is the same.

So my point is that there is an alternative to Islam reeducating any country.

Alf wrote:

I wasn't going to mention this but feel I should after reading it for a second time, just so I can point out that not all 'mentally backward' lads grow up to be attempted suicide bombers. In fact most suicide bombers, or attempted suicide bombers even, have not been diagnosed with any form of mental illness. In this case the lad had been diagnosed with Aspergers Symndrome, which is an autistic spectrum disorder (ASD). I know a lot about it because my 6 year old lad has it. And my lad ain't mentally backward, in fact he's got a farkin huge IQ. He just has problems with social interaction and interpretating the hidden signals that we use and take for granted every day. There, I've said it.....:\ohwell:

Oh no, I wasn't suggesting that at all, and apologies if it came across that way. I was merely using it to say that the extreme side of Islam, as do many religions in fact, tend to exploit the susceptible and naive, normally through social interaction. 'We wanna be your friend' etc.

I went to uni with an autistic guy, who was clearly supremely intelligent to us all, but when it came to common sense, and being streetwise, he was always being taken for a ride. Nice chap though, but perhaps too nice.

El Jarvo wrote: Jeezus, how many Muslims do you actually know? Some of my best drinking buddies are Muslim. Certainly at work they are. The Turkish lads in particularly like to part-eh!

Soufie Muslims from Turkey are ace. They do all the bad stuff, have scantily clad lasses etc. When pushed on Islam, they say 'it's in their heart', often with a chuckle.

It's the Sunni and particularly Shia you've got to watch out for.

In Britain it is common for a growing minority of teenagers to have several children, often with different and unknown fathers. On the other side of coin you have bachelors/spinsters/shagabonds in their 30's and 40's. The latter being unmarried and free are more vulnerable to the risks of alcoholism, driving offences, risk taking, promiscuity, VD and inevitably also prone to sexual deviance such as rape and possibly also paedophilia.

Alernatively towards the orient, people will be coerced to marry people with similar characteristics in their late twenties after education and vocations have been consolidated. I am not saying we impose this on the people of GB but it is important to be aware of why western civilisation is starting to fall apart a little and how some of the above problems are interlinked. Whether Islam is the vehicle for fixing the problem, who knows.

Mansour Ali wrote: In Britain it is common for a growing minority of teenagers to have several children, often with different and unknown fathers. On the other side of coin you have bachelors/spinsters/shagabonds in their 30's and 40's.

oh my giddy aunt. i am practically single-handedly responsible for the decline of western civilisation.

and i'm probably only moments away from becoming an alcoholic rapist or a paedophile with points on my licence.

Mansour Ali wrote: In Britain it is common for a growing minority of teenagers to have several children, often with different and unknown fathers. On the other side of coin you have bachelors/spinsters/shagabonds in their 30's and 40's. The latter being unmarried and free are more vulnerable to the risks of alcoholism, driving offences, risk taking, promiscuity, VD and inevitably also prone to sexual deviance such as rape and possibly also paedophilia.

Alernatively towards the orient, people will be coerced to marry people with similar characteristics in their late twenties after education and vocations have been consolidated. I am not saying we impose this on the people of GB but it is important to be aware of why western civilisation is starting to fall apart a little and how some of the above problems are interlinked. Whether Islam is the vehicle for fixing the problem, who knows.

I think we've been doing pretty much the same thing for the last 2000 years. Going back to 1429 isn't going to help matters.

I think you are perhaps correct in linking alcohol to some of the social problems in this country, although personally, i think that in the last decade and a half its become more readily available. This is reversible; it's government policy. Stricter licensing controls would help (i.e. stop giving a license to every shop along the street). Policing needs to be changed; i.e. police turn up fast when you call them (not 24 hours later), and perhaps the judicial system needs to actually stop letting people off. Another thing that would help is reforming the benefit system (particularly incapacity benefit), and also much tighter controls on immigration flow.

Religion is not a cure in any shape or form.

bloodynora wrote:

Mansour Ali wrote: In Britain it is common for a growing minority of teenagers to have several children, often with different and unknown fathers. On the other side of coin you have bachelors/spinsters/shagabonds in their 30's and 40's.

oh my giddy aunt. i am practically single-handedly responsible for the decline of western civilisation.

and i'm probably only moments away from becoming an alcoholic rapist or a paedophile with points on my licence.

I got 3 points on my licence for doing 35 in a 30. I'm just getting out a mat, which way is Mecca?

Mansour Ali wrote: ...you have bachelors/spinsters/shagabonds in their 30's and 40's. The latter being unmarried and free are more... prone to sexual deviance such as rape and possibly also paedophilia...

Reached Oz yet?