Their Biggest Mistake

I'll go with hiring Phil

I'm going to pick two from that list: drug abuse (which I voted for) and replacing Gillian. I wish she could come back.

They haven't made as many as me.My list is 400 pages LONG and still haven't got to getting chucked out of the BROWNIES aged 6!

Nazi Imagery wasnt something the band did, rather a myth perpetuated by the media that after a while the band gave up trying to dismiss. Movement is in many ways a great album and certainly a necessary one. Abandoning the JD direction? Its called progression. Doing side projects - if thats what they felt like doing at the time good luck to em. Put out some decent songs between em as well. Signing to London - what were they supposed to do? Reforming - ehh? New Order Lite is better than none at all.

Mistakes are there to be made. Too late to think through their career but I wish they had properly recorded the Lets go demo version. The obvious one is what they don't do rather than what they do do - as in varying the setlist.

everybody makes mistakes... even me

too many illegal substances

I'm quite determined there will be no more mistakes! like the last one

The whole drink/drug aspect mades the gigs to me circa 1985 more interesting but I haven't got around to listening to them, so I can't really make that judgment.

It is a shame that they've affect Barney's memory so getting clarification on facts in the past seems quite difficult.

there biggest mistake was not replacing Gillian with Johnny Marr. New Order + Johnny Marr= Super New Order (Ok really dorky sounding, but makes sense to me). :D . Or they could have kept Gillian (Smart move) and still added Johnny Marr, and never used any female vocalist except Gillian, and have cut down on the female backing vocals! Oh, and maybe more of hooky singing. Ok some of it is a wish, but thats ok right?

Firstly...They would'nt be what they are to YOU, without the drug use/abuse.Whether we condem/judge them, or not,some drugs are great for creative purposes..Pretty critical to the Bands path,not too many outwardly ill effects showing from th drugs(ok Barney forgets his own lyrics...Charmingly I reckon ...A lot of blunders were made with Factory Recs(how much did Pretentious Peter Saville leech incidently?) and the Hac in particular...Allowing J-e-t on the singles market,was pretty dumb management.. Gretton would of laughed at them IMHO.This next single will get it all back.... one hopesIf it gets some play on Radio

The single choices for Technique were The Only Mistake.

Drug abuse has been the biggest mistake of every band that's ever used 'em.

Wasn't World in Motion the first major descent from the pinnacle of Technique? In some bio, I think on All Music, Hooky, presumably, was quoted as saying 'this might be the last straw for Joy Division fans', or something to that effect. It's bland crap, not really a serious blemish, but it does illustrate, as a relative first, New Order's occasional public destruction of their own mystique. I don't care too much for romanticizing the '80s, I was a toddler then anyway, because I enjoy present day New Order, but I do feel like World in Motion is the kind of thing that makes, by comparison, mediocre material like 'Jetstream' more acceptable to the fanbase. And that, by the way, sucks.

I'll second Nick's take, but I'm also gonna mention the 89 US tour, over three months long. Not too sure that long haul helped out much over the long term, since there hasn't been a huge demand for 'em to visit places like Utah (and Oregon, sigh) since.

JV wrote: Wasn't World in Motion the first major descent from the pinnacle of Technique? In some bio, I think on All Music, Hooky, presumably, was quoted as saying 'this might be the last straw for Joy Division fans', or something to that effect. It's bland crap, not really a serious blemish, but it does illustrate, as a relative first, New Order's occasional public destruction of their own mystique. I don't care too much for romanticizing the '80s, I was a toddler then anyway, because I enjoy present day New Order, but I do feel like World in Motion is the kind of thing that makes, by comparison, mediocre material like 'Jetstream' more acceptable to the fanbase. And that, by the way, sucks.

Any England fan/musician would love to do the world cup song,its not a sell out,they are ligitimite supporters...I thought they did a decent job with WIM...pissed all over previous world cup songs...

republic spoiling an otherwise excellent album record

People will argue with me on this one, but trusting their management to look after their interests and keeping Tony Wilson in check.

Ie Factory's unwise property investments Staying with Factory right until the bitter end and not jumping ship earlier.

as everyone's mother has probably told them: with every mistake comes a new opportunity. :D

ROFLMAO.....4 people voted drugs.

you don't like nasty druggy wuggies?

BURN ALL YOUR RECORDS AND BUY SOME MADE BY NO-DOPERS.

Think you haver errrrr....The King singers, and Nana Miskouri.

DRUGS BAD FOR NEW ORDER?

Oh boy I can't wait to tell my GF that, she'll bust a gut (she only tolerates me playing them if it's a full on E-fueled electro-rampage).

Right then, my friends, and enemies of all the untaxed (therefor bad) drugs... out with it. list all the bands who never drank, or smoked or toked or snorted or stuck stupid needles in em.....and who are not festering ear torture. (yes I know there are a few, but NO would not have been one of em)

EDIT: Then again, it all depends on what you call drug abuse. If you have a bottle of whiskey and drink it, and a block of hash and smoke it, that's drug USE> Drug ABuse would be using the Whiskey as a molotov and propping up a wonky table leg with the hash. The only drugs that to my knowledge has caused any of them trouble is nice fluffy legal and taxble booze.

To me, the biggest mistake was allowing too many other people to have too much say in their money. Bands don't own bars and clubs, or at least shouldn't. I don't blame Wilson entirely, Rob Gretton didn't help them as much as some might say over this period.

Wilson, The Hacienda and staying wiht Factory til the end. I also laugh at those that say the drugs were their biggest mistake. Too many bands clean up and release utter shit without drugs (anyone catch Iggy Pop on Fresh Air?).

Next biggest mistake is failure to promote thier lps.

The Nazi imagery will have attracted some wrong 'uns - they've said in many interviews though that they realise that this attempt at being contraversial was naive. It was also offensive to many... we all make mistakes though!

Gillian leaving wasn't really a mistake - she has to look after her kids - although it would've been good to have someone with more pedigree - i.e. Johnny Marr.

The side projects were definately no mistake - because of them we have 6 (less or more depending on how you decide what constitutes original material) more solid NO like masterpieces...

Yeah the only mistake, like I made once before...

replacing gillian with phil no doubt about it. the last two records dont even sound like new order, which says it all really. get ready was rescued a little bit by the raw energy that they displayed on it, but this latest effort is simply not new order, and a lot of it has to do with phil's excessive guitar.

Spotnick wrote: Other.. being the Hacienda and letting Tony Wilson run the business.

Without the fall of Factory and money problems due to the Hacienda, maybe they wouldn't have parted in 1990 to go do side projects while they were at their peak. quote]

agree. bleeding money like they did must've been maddening, esp when NO created the music that helped create customer base that the HAC was servicing and it wasn't paying dividends.

Using Alan Wise to introduce them

Al Jarvis wrote:

Milkshock wrote: replacing gillian with phil no doubt about it. the last two records dont even sound like new order, which says it all really. get ready was rescued a little bit by the raw energy that they displayed on it, but this latest effort is simply not new order, and a lot of it has to do with phil's excessive guitar.

Surely Gillian was on Get Ready, and Phil had fcuk all to do with it?! He didn't join the band until well after Get Ready was recorded, no?!

That's what I thought - people should stop slagging off 'phils guitar wankery' for a while & give him a chance for his personality to come through, after all 'road to ruin - hey now what you doing' is his track (according to Bernard) & thats a quality NO track in my book.

If it wasn't for the drugs their music may not have sounded as it did

So therefore drugs are not a bad thing

King Eric wrote: If it wasn't for the drugs their music may not have sounded as it did

So therefore drugs are not a bad thing

1993:

Keith Allen: Gillian...Would New Order have made the music that they did without the drugs? Gillian: *Giggles* KA: Well...? Gillian: No comment

:D

I personally went for the Factory/Hac/Dry/Tony fookin' Wilson fiasco...the bitterness spilled over into the band, and the band dealt with it through drugs and drink instead of trying to work together. Had New Order evolved after Technique instead of disintegrate for eight years, who knows how many intense albums they would have made.

Reforming wasn't a mistake, how else would I have seen them pre 1993

What is it with the Movement knockers? I would prefer to listen to all those songs performed live over any of the songs from the last three albums except Regret, Crystal and WFTSC song. Yeah, it was miserable, but I love miserable! Those songs are so intense.

Peter Winfield wrote: What is it with the Movement knockers? I would prefer to listen to all those songs performed live over any of the songs from the last three albums except Regret, Crystal and WFTSC song. Yeah, it was miserable, but I love miserable! Those songs are so intense.

Quite agree my good man. How can Movement be the biggest mistake? It's their first album - without it they wouldn't have been able to progress. It's also a very good, although much maligned, album (and probably not to be played if your 'dying in a lonely place').

for posting on here under different names :D

Huh?

Seems to have been a lot of discussion about NO and drug use on this thread.

OK, drugs can help make great music.

However, sustained or heavy use comes at a price to your physical and/or mental health (i've found that one out the hard way).

Drugs DO make you fell great and you can have some of the best times of your life whilst off yer face, but at some point, the positives will turn to BIG negatives.

Hopefully the guys in NO can carry on knocking out some decent tunes whilst being (reasonably) clean.

I always thought the Just Say No thing was the dorkiest thing imaginable - but in retrospect I would happily give up the drug fuelled good times in favour of a clean life.

Their careers have been a collection of mistakes really. Some happy mistakes, some not. Guess that'll be the old punk ethic coming through.

I don't much care for picking a single worst mistake and prefer to be grateful for all of them.

biggest mistake: putting "Guilt Is A Useless Emotion" on WFTSC!

Myth Marco wrote: biggest mistake: putting "Guilt Is A Useless Emotion" on WFTSC!

Yes, that should have been with the rest of the classics on Technique...

Still they could always release it as a single!

OTHER

It was a Tony Wilson error. Not releasing Vanishing Point as a Single then Round&Round didn’t hit the top 20 and Run later that year also. WIM is not a mistake is their first and only UK number 1. I’m a JD fan and for me back in 1990 it was almost the last straw, but today it’s the most beautiful football anthem ever made.

ze t wrote: OTHER

It was a Tony Wilson error. Not releasing Vanishing Point as a Single then Round&Round didn’t hit the top 20 and Run later that year also. WIM is not a mistake is their first and only UK number 1. I’m a JD fan and for me back in 1990 it was almost the last straw, but today it’s the most beautiful football anthem ever made.

Agree again. I remember choking on my cornflakes when I heard NO were doing the traditional nafforama that is the UK world cup anthem.

Was just as shocked when it turned out to be a great song and even more shocked when, after all their years of being counter-culture, it went to number one!

And now... it's the only footie / world cup anthem I can listen to without feeling a vague wave of nausea.

Wasim wrote: Nazi Imagery wasnt something the band did, rather a myth perpetuated by the media that after a while the band gave up trying to dismiss. Movement is in many ways a great album and certainly a necessary one. Abandoning the JD direction? Its called progression. Doing side projects - if thats what they felt like doing at the time good luck to em. Put out some decent songs between em as well. Signing to London - what were they supposed to do? Reforming - ehh? New Order Lite is better than none at all.

Mistakes are there to be made. Too late to think through their career but I wish they had properly recorded the Lets go demo version. The obvious one is what they don't do rather than what they do do - as in varying the setlist.

"Waiting for so long, yeah Ive been waiting for a chance to see ya". Is that the Lets Go demo? If so, then Im in total agreement. Would have been a brilliant song.

Other: Bernard dancing

symphonie wrote:

Spotnick wrote: Other.. being the Hacienda and letting Tony Wilson run the business.

Without the fall of Factory and money problems due to the Hacienda, maybe they wouldn't have parted in 1990 to go do side projects while they were at their peak. quote]

agree. bleeding money like they did must've been maddening, esp when NO created the music that helped create customer base that the HAC was servicing and it wasn't paying dividends.

Thirded

Hannett of the Apes wrote: The single choices for Technique were The Only Mistake.

Yes, that's why the B-side of Run is called MTO: "Mistake, The Only".

Spotnick wrote: Other.. being the Hacienda and letting Tony Wilson run the business.

Without the fall of Factory and money problems due to the Hacienda, maybe they wouldn't have parted in 1990 to go do side projects while they were at their peak.

Aggree.

Boatraceface wrote: pissed all over previous world cup songs...

And another thing - Hooky would have had a hard time getting involved in a Man U supporters tune in Gretton's day!

i choose other wilson and gretton not being sacked gillian wasnt a mistake but a needed change due to illness,be nice to see her pop back though. cant even say the drugs was a mistake per say as some of the best music ever was influenced chemically.

Another -heh- 'mistake'; if Phil C was adopted as member why not Dawn Zee as well (oh boy - I can see some serious incoming from the Jarvo now...).

Side point; If Phil is a member now, why is he never with them on the interview couch? I think i've heard precisely nowt fall from his gob ever (as a NO member)!

biggest mistake: quitting drugs.

Although I think Phil brings a new sound to the band I wish Gillian would return.

bLuE oRdEr wrote: Drug abuse has been the biggest mistake of every band that's ever used 'em.

Nicely put, Blue; good on ya, mate. Why do they do it? It's something I've never really understood. Also, to the people here who say drugs aren't such a bad thing: I can only assume that you've never seen what they can do to people. See how the following grab you:

1. Paranoia;
2. stumbling round the house giggling;
3. disappearing up your own ass and not wanting to talk to your mates.

Yes, I have seen all of these happen to people and in every case, it was pot that did it. And no, I hadn't heard of the last one either until I saw it happen to someone I know.

Also, there was a story on TV the other day that was the best case I've ever heard for not taking E. A girl took one ten years ago - she'd never taken any before or since - and ever since then she's had a compulsion that makes her ring 999 several times a day every day because she thinks she's dying.

Still think there's nothing wrong with drugs? I don't.

Hannett of the Apes wrote: The single choices for Technique were The Only Mistake.

Indeed. That's why the B side of Run2 is called MTO: Mistake, The Only. :D

In the early new order years they were on a lot of acid, and ecstacy runs through Technique. In fact they are probably one of the few groups I can think of where drugs help! The other probably being the beatles.

Releasing Bizarre Love Triangle after Brotherhood.It would have gone top 10 if it had been the precurssor.Instead they released State Of The Nation .

But hey, what do chart positions count?

Spotnick wrote: Other.. being the Hacienda and letting Tony Wilson run the business.

Without the fall of Factory and money problems due to the Hacienda, maybe they wouldn't have parted in 1990 to go do side projects while they were at their peak.

I fully agree with you. This Haçienda/Wilson thing probably was (and will hopefuly remain) thei biggest mistake.

Yet, I don't like the idea of Phil Cunnilingus being part of the band. He's OK as an extra musician, but I don't like him being involved in the writing of the songs.

In all seriousness, their only real "mistake" is not seeing the signs of Ian's depression and how bad it really was. They admit that in interviews, they always say they were young and didn't pick up on it until it was really too late. But that's more on Ian and whatever his reasons were for topping himself than the band.

That, and "Shellshock" :barf:

craigy wrote: Another -heh- 'mistake'; if Phil C was adopted as member why not Dawn Zee as well (oh boy - I can see some serious incoming from the Jarvo now...).

Side point; If Phil is a member now, why is he never with them on the interview couch? I think i've heard precisely nowt fall from his gob ever (as a NO member)!

He and Bernard were interviewed on the Wireless highlights programme on Channel 4 a few weeks back.First time i think he`s been included?.Only actually said a couple of words mind.

Other : too many stinky remixes

Slow pulse boy wrote: Other : too many stinky remixes

Yeah that's a good one, or replacing actual b-sides with them

NO Regret wrote:

Wasim wrote: Nazi Imagery wasnt something the band did, rather a myth perpetuated by the media that after a while the band gave up trying to dismiss. Movement is in many ways a great album and certainly a necessary one. Abandoning the JD direction? Its called progression. Doing side projects - if thats what they felt like doing at the time good luck to em. Put out some decent songs between em as well. Signing to London - what were they supposed to do? Reforming - ehh? New Order Lite is better than none at all.

Mistakes are there to be made. Too late to think through their career but I wish they had properly recorded the Lets go demo version. The obvious one is what they don't do rather than what they do do - as in varying the setlist.

"Waiting for so long, yeah Ive been waiting for a chance to see ya". Is that the Lets Go demo? If so, then Im in total agreement. Would have been a brilliant song.

Thats the one. Missed out there, could have been a classic.

OTHER Not providing RUBBER MARIGOLD GLOVES with MINTY MINT copies of TWELVE INCH RECORDS from MALCOLM'S MUSICLAND in CHORLEY. Makes my blood boil!

Biggest Mistake : Letting that stupid, talent sponge of a useless pillock Gillespie on Get Ready to fuck up an otherwise fine album with Rock The Shack. "Get it right get it right get it righ get it right......"Fuck off.

Also: Even I, a stupid teetotal cant understand some of the stuff being said about taking drugs on these boards. I really dont think people are getting the point. Walking around giggling to yourself, and dissappearing into yourself is surely a desirable effect of taking drugs. I will say that I think a lot of the shitness around republic probably came from their coke input. That drug never lends itslef to anything creative or introspective.

Maybe if Steven and Bernard and Peter and Gillian were good boys and girls, and never took acid, Temptation would sound a lot less excellent and a lot more sensable - like U2 maybe? Then we would all be happy

Woah: ive just passed 1000 posts. Sacry.

Drug abuse, undoubtedly the cause of beeing now unable to play live...

Al Jarvis wrote:

Pascal CHAMPAVERT wrote: Drug abuse, undoubtedly the cause of beeing now unable to play live...

Children! That's the real reason they don't play live anymore.

Should we kidnap their kids?!

Doesnt CHAMPERVERT mean by "unable to play live" that they cant play their instruments?.Not that they can`t schedule gigs because of their kids.

Al Jarvis wrote: Should we kidnap their kids?!

... and that was Michael Jackson's talk coming out of Al's mouth!

Both me and NEW ORDER made the same BIG mistake......

WORKING OVERTIME

Miss Disco wrote:

bLuE oRdEr wrote: Drug abuse has been the biggest mistake of every band that's ever used 'em.

Nicely put, Blue; good on ya, mate. Why do they do it? It's something I've never really understood. Also, to the people here who say drugs aren't such a bad thing: I can only assume that you've never seen what they can do to people. See how the following grab you:

1. Paranoia;
2. stumbling round the house giggling;
3. disappearing up your own ass and not wanting to talk to your mates.

Yes, I have seen all of these happen to people and in every case, it was pot that did it. And no, I hadn't heard of the last one either until I saw it happen to someone I know.

Also, there was a story on TV the other day that was the best case I've ever heard for not taking E. A girl took one ten years ago - she'd never taken any before or since - and ever since then she's had a compulsion that makes her ring 999 several times a day every day because she thinks she's dying.

Still think there's nothing wrong with drugs? I don't.

Im not here to promote drugs, but let's be honest about it. Drugs have been a major driving force for some of the genius behind music, and art since the beginning of time.

Drugs, like everything else in life, is best in moderation, and used in a responsible way. If it gets too hot, get out of the kitchen.

As for e, i dont recommend taking it, but in the near future in some countries, it may be used on people who suffer from post-trumatic stress. Their has been recent favorable tests given to women who have been raped, and returning soldiers, among others. Just like legal drugs, Most Illicit drugs have some positive side effects.

Miss Disco wrote: I'm going to pick two from that list: drug abuse (which I voted for) and replacing Gillian. I wish she could come back.

So that she can add to list of fook ups? i dont get all this phil bashing, at least he can actually play an instrument!

Actually, thats harsh. Oh well.

Biggest mistake? Hmmm. Cant be arsed to look at the list so... Well, Dawn Zee on live vox is quite annoying. Republic was a bit shit but i'll go along with Conor and say getting that git from Primal Scream on to butcher Get Ready.

Oh, and anything involving Miranda fuking sawyer.

God, looks like I've opened a can of worms here! I'll answer people's points one at a time; you first, Al, seeing as I noticed your post first.

Al Jarvis wrote: MD, have you got religion or summat?!

Do you drink? And are you fully aware of the effects alcohol have on you? Stumbling around a room giggling isn't half of it!

No, I'm not religious at all, Al; disagreeing with certain things and being religious can be mutually exclusive, they don't necessarily have to go together. Yes, I do drink but I don't get drunk; I've never really done it that often because I always feel too guilty afterwards. Finally, you don't seem to have read my post properly: I didn't mention drink in there at all, I said it was pot that had that effect on the person I was talking about (who, for the record, will remain nameless).

Next:

Clockwork C wrote: Walking around giggling to yourself, and dissappearing into yourself is surely a desirable effect of taking drugs.

That has to be one of the stupidest statements I've ever read on NOOL. Personally, I like to talk to my friends on a night out. You can't do that if you're so out of it that you've entered your own ass.

Finally, on to Lee:

leeharveyoswald1963 wrote:

Drugs have been a major driving force for some of the genius behind music, and art since the beginning of time.

That may well be but it doesn't mean it's right to take them. BTW, it looks like I'm not alone in thinking this way:

Pascal CHAMPAVERT wrote: Drug abuse, undoubtedly the cause of beeing now unable to play live...

There, I've said my piece and given my opinions; now I'll let you lot carry on with the debate, wherever it might go.

*gets coat, leaves thread*

"Everyone must get high." - Some guy

"i'm gonna live to get high"

yeah, its a shit song. but it was the man himself who said it.

i suppose taking E for treatment for post-trumatic stress for such cases as rape is not worth it.

Miss Disco took my quote out of context.

here's to the one hitter

Miss Disco wrote: God, looks like I've opened a can of worms here! I'll answer people's points one at a time; you first, Al, seeing as I noticed your post first.

Al Jarvis wrote: MD, have you got religion or summat?!

Do you drink? And are you fully aware of the effects alcohol have on you? Stumbling around a room giggling isn't half of it!

No, I'm not religious at all, Al; disagreeing with certain things and being religious can be mutually exclusive, they don't necessarily have to go together. Yes, I do drink but I don't get drunk; I've never really done it that often because I always feel too guilty afterwards. Finally, you don't seem to have read my post properly: I didn't mention drink in there at all, I said it was pot that had that effect on the person I was talking about (who, for the record, will remain nameless).

Next:

Clockwork C wrote: Walking around giggling to yourself, and dissappearing into yourself is surely a desirable effect of taking drugs.

That has to be one of the stupidest statements I've ever read on NOOL. Personally, I like to talk to my friends on a night out. You can't do that if you're so out of it that you've entered your own ass.

Finally, on to Lee:

leeharveyoswald1963 wrote:

Drugs have been a major driving force for some of the genius behind music, and art since the beginning of time.

That may well be but it doesn't mean it's right to take them. BTW, it looks like I'm not alone in thinking this way:

Pascal CHAMPAVERT wrote: Drug abuse, undoubtedly the cause of beeing now unable to play live...

There, I've said my piece and given my opinions; now I'll let you lot carry on with the debate, wherever it might go.

*gets coat, leaves thread*

Being a social liberal kind of chap on most things, i find it quite dispicable when people say its wrong to take drugs. If drugs have been a major creative force, and its hard to disagree, although there have been as many bad cocaine albums than good ones, but that doesnt mean its argument for and against the use of drugs. I personally, am not a drug taking person, but i have no qualms socialising with people who are.

Conor has hit the nail on the head (for once!). People take drugs for the feeling it gives them. Whether it be to chill (weed) or go crazy (cocaine) not for any bad reason. Just because the government or school teachers say its bad doesnt mean it is. Sure, some nasty people are involved, but the majority of drug users (with the exception of addicts or smackheads etc) arent causing anyone any harm, so why does that make it wrong.

As for going out. I absolutely love getting absolutely slaughtered on a night out, plenty on people on this website can provide testament to that! but, being a reasonably intelligent person, i have the unique ability to drink and talk at the same time. Some of the best conversation i have is when i'm pissed. Like the time at glasto i talked to that idiot coldplay fan about how shit his little flag was and funnily enough, i never feel guilty about it afterwards. Unless i've really offended someone, which as people who have met me will agree with, i am beyond that.

Miss Disco wrote:

Also, there was a story on TV the other day that was the best case I've ever heard for not taking E. A girl took one ten years ago - she'd never taken any before or since - and ever since then she's had a compulsion that makes her ring 999 several times a day every day because she thinks she's dying.

Still think there's nothing wrong with drugs? I don't.

What a daft argument. Someone (I'd be prepared to bet someone with a propensity for mental illness) takes a funny turn after an E, so all Ecstacy use is wrong. The argument about long-term effects of drug use is a complex one, but it's not at all relevant to draw too many conclusions from an isolated incident. I knew someone who was killed by a vacuum cleaner, but I still use one regularly. And I drive a car - how many people have been killed by cars?

Of course there are things wrong with drugs. There is, however, a clear distinction between drug USE and drug MISUSE, and most well-informed people realise that.

Jesus!

Big has just said something sensible.

Uncle Liam wrote: Jesus!

Big has just said something sensible.

It is wrong to use the lord's name in vain.

leeharveyoswald1963 wrote:

Uncle Liam wrote: Jesus!

Big has just said something sensible.

It is wrong to use the lord's name in vain.

LOL!

If Liam comes To edit his post I won't let go I won't let go

Where's my melodica?

IF JESUS COMES TO BAN YOU ALL, I WON'T LET GO!!!! :D

NObabe wrote: IF JESUS COMES TO BAN YOU ALL, I WON'T LET GO!!!! :D

A NOOL CLASSIC!!!

no fair!! Maya out did me!!

Ok. Drugs (legal and illegal) can make people more difficult to deal with socially - but that isn’t their only effect Miss Disco. If it was, I shouldn't think they'd be so popular - would you?

As a non drink - drug taker, I present my list of substances that I prefair people around me to be on in descending order from least troublesome to biggest pain in the ass:

1. Ecstasy
2. “Pot” as its termed
3. Mushrooms (also: are these legal or not?)
4. Speed
5. Alcohol
6. Acid
7. Cocaine

Feel free to edit it and post your own.

leeharveyoswald1963 wrote:

Miss Disco wrote:

bLuE oRdEr wrote: Drug abuse has been the biggest mistake of every band that's ever used 'em.

Nicely put, Blue; good on ya, mate. Why do they do it? It's something I've never really understood. Also, to the people here who say drugs aren't such a bad thing: I can only assume that you've never seen what they can do to people. See how the following grab you:

1. Paranoia;
2. stumbling round the house giggling;
3. disappearing up your own ass and not wanting to talk to your mates.

Yes, I have seen all of these happen to people and in every case, it was pot that did it. And no, I hadn't heard of the last one either until I saw it happen to someone I know.

Also, there was a story on TV the other day that was the best case I've ever heard for not taking E. A girl took one ten years ago - she'd never taken any before or since - and ever since then she's had a compulsion that makes her ring 999 several times a day every day because she thinks she's dying.

Still think there's nothing wrong with drugs? I don't.

Im not here to promote drugs, but let's be honest about it. Drugs have been a major driving force for some of the genius behind music, and art since the beginning of time.

Drugs, like everything else in life, is best in moderation, and used in a responsible way. If it gets too hot, get out of the kitchen.

As for e, i dont recommend taking it, but in the near future in some countries, it may be used on people who suffer from post-trumatic stress. Their has been recent favorable tests given to women who have been raped, and returning soldiers, among others. Just like legal drugs, Most Illicit drugs have some positive side effects.

Artists and musicians think drugs are a "major driving force for some of the genius."

Why do musicians tap into drugs? Because they're young, and like all young people, they're experimenting. Only if you're a musician, you have people offering you drugs for free, and/or you have money to buy drugs. And you don't have to be at work or school at 8 A.M. like other young people, so there's no immediate downside to using drugs.

Sometimes they need drugs to keep going. The Beatles popped pills just to keep up with the grind of playing all those shows in Hamburg. And musicians self-medicate to deal with the boredom and anxiety of being on the road, and often to deal with mental health problems they had before they became musicians. Sometimes the self-medication just dulls them; sometimes it exacerbates their mental illnesses.

Finally, musicians use drugs as a way to tap into their creativity. Perhaps if they're feeling blocked it allows them to get past their conscious limitations and tap into the subconscious to get at what they're trying to express. Perhaps. But that doesn't last. A musician that needs an outside crutch to tap into the subconcious isn't likely to remain creative for long.

Drug Casulaties

Drug Deaths: Jimi Hendrix (age 27), Jim Morrison (age 27), Phil Lynott (age 36)

Alcohol poisoning deaths: Bon Scott (age 33), John Bonham (age 32)

Crippling addictions: Keith Richards, Eric Clapton

Mental illness: Syd Barrett, Roky Erickson, Skip Spence

Bands disrupted: Rolling Stones (Brian Jones), The Clash (Topper Headon), The Libertines (Pete Doherty)

And on and on and on....

More people die of allergic reactions to peanuts. Ban the peanut! Maybe this drug debate should move to 'behind closed doors'...

bLuE oRdEr wrote:

leeharveyoswald1963 wrote:

Miss Disco wrote:

bLuE oRdEr wrote: Drug abuse has been the biggest mistake of every band that's ever used 'em.

Nicely put, Blue; good on ya, mate. Why do they do it? It's something I've never really understood. Also, to the people here who say drugs aren't such a bad thing: I can only assume that you've never seen what they can do to people. See how the following grab you:

1. Paranoia;
2. stumbling round the house giggling;
3. disappearing up your own ass and not wanting to talk to your mates.

Yes, I have seen all of these happen to people and in every case, it was pot that did it. And no, I hadn't heard of the last one either until I saw it happen to someone I know.

Also, there was a story on TV the other day that was the best case I've ever heard for not taking E. A girl took one ten years ago - she'd never taken any before or since - and ever since then she's had a compulsion that makes her ring 999 several times a day every day because she thinks she's dying.

Still think there's nothing wrong with drugs? I don't.

Im not here to promote drugs, but let's be honest about it. Drugs have been a major driving force for some of the genius behind music, and art since the beginning of time.

Drugs, like everything else in life, is best in moderation, and used in a responsible way. If it gets too hot, get out of the kitchen.

As for e, i dont recommend taking it, but in the near future in some countries, it may be used on people who suffer from post-trumatic stress. Their has been recent favorable tests given to women who have been raped, and returning soldiers, among others. Just like legal drugs, Most Illicit drugs have some positive side effects.

Artists and musicians think drugs are a "major driving force for some of the genius."

Why do musicians tap into drugs? Because they're young, and like all young people, they're experimenting. Only if you're a musician, you have people offering you drugs for free, and/or you have money to buy drugs. And you don't have to be at work or school at 8 A.M. like other young people, so there's no immediate downside to using drugs.

Sometimes they need drugs to keep going. The Beatles popped pills just to keep up with the grind of playing all those shows in Hamburg. And musicians self-medicate to deal with the boredom and anxiety of being on the road, and often to deal with mental health problems they had before they became musicians. Sometimes the self-medication just dulls them; sometimes it exacerbates their mental illnesses.

Finally, musicians use drugs as a way to tap into their creativity. Perhaps if they're feeling blocked it allows them to get past their conscious limitations and tap into the subconscious to get at what they're trying to express. Perhaps. But that doesn't last. A musician that needs an outside crutch to tap into the subconcious isn't likely to remain creative for long.

Drug Casulaties

Drug Deaths: Jimi Hendrix (age 27), Jim Morrison (age 27), Phil Lynott (age 36)

Alcohol poisoning deaths: Bon Scott (age 33), John Bonham (age 32)

Crippling addictions: Keith Richards, Eric Clapton

Mental illness: Syd Barrett, Roky Erickson, Skip Spence

Bands disrupted: Rolling Stones (Brian Jones), The Clash (Topper Headon), The Libertines (Pete Doherty)

And on and on and on....

Complete Incomprehensibility: Shaun Ryder, Bernard Sumner

Alcohol tends to ruin any chances of any interesting conversation – but at a slow rate. My average night out with drinking friends: 8-10 Normal conversation. 10-11 Slightly rowdy. 11-Midnight Sometimes very interesting conversation as peoples guard is down, and they are very honest. 12 – 2 they shout around the dance floor to absolutely anything, and I’m generally on my way somewhere else- or home.

With Cocaine, people tend to disappear up themselves very early on, and are a lost cause with regard to decent conversation. Theres also the fact that in clubs, it leads to a nasty atmosphere.

Ecstasy is ok: so long as the music is loud enough to drown out those who like to talk on and on and on and on while on it.

What is the legal situation with Mushrooms?

Clockwork C wrote: What is the legal situation with Mushrooms?

Dunno if this can help a bit http://www.thesite.org/drinkanddrugs/drugsafety/thelaw/magicmushroomsandthelaw

Al Jarvis wrote:

Clockwork C wrote: With Cocaine, people tend to disappear up themselves very early on, and are a lost cause with regard to decent conversation. Theres also the fact that in clubs, it leads to a nasty atmosphere.

What is the legal situation with Mushrooms?

You'll be glad you weren't in the Audley then, CC! Lot of powder doing the rounds that day!

You mean I missed it again?

Got to be all the synthetics & nose candy I'm afraid. Which is a shame for such a talented lot.

:bag:

1 "Not keeping an eye on our lead singer" Peter Hook on Later, summer 2005.

2. Staying with Factory

3. Sometimes taking the fans contimued interest for granted.

4. Retro - a mish mash of what should have been a fitting tribute to the band that Recycle was going to be.

5. Set lists becoming highly predictable

oldmonkey wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote:

Clockwork C wrote: With Cocaine, people tend to disappear up themselves very early on, and are a lost cause with regard to decent conversation. Theres also the fact that in clubs, it leads to a nasty atmosphere.

What is the legal situation with Mushrooms?

You'll be glad you weren't in the Audley then, CC! Lot of powder doing the rounds that day!

You mean I missed it again?

Tim, given the shit-eating grin you were wearing all day, I'm not sure there's much you didn't miss.;) :D

in my opinion, drugs are what helped new order... i mean i dont take drugs, but it did help them "concentrate" if u know what i mean... i voted for phil

I like gillian, but they didnt have any choice. Her kid was ill.

And medical care is way expensive for that stuff. Even though i doubt thats the case.

The biggest issue re drug use is the fact that it finances the criminal activities of the big drug cartels, of which the big boys never get caught while the drug mules etc are the ones that end up in jail for life. Not being judgmental, just pointing out something that not many people seem to discuss - it always comes down to what people on drugs get up to, which is a "minor" problem compared with the big scale crimes financed by the continuing use of drugs.

About drugs, it would be long, we've all seen what they do so it's a bit useless for me to remember to you. Just one thing: if you wanna get high, you must be prepared to come down.

I think you're totally unfair with Phil, he's the best addition (I said addition, not addiction :D ) the band could get. Great bloke, great guitarist.

The biggest mistake couldbe splitting up for four years. I know they needed some time off, but maybe they should have got back together in 1995 after The Rest Of, 1996 at most. That would have meant more continuity of their history. Anyway we must be happy of how things happened and Rob still managed to get them to reform before dying... and it's also true the break increased their legendary status because it created a huge expectation when they came back. Also, they've been away during the Britpop horrors. Uhm, some might say not releasing Turn as a single? :D

oldmonkey wrote: To me, the biggest mistake was allowing too many other people to have too much say in their money. Bands don't own bars and clubs, or at least shouldn't. I don't blame Wilson entirely, Rob Gretton didn't help them as much as some might say over this period.

was gonna say that too me old mucker!

Biggest mistake was falling old like little kids & not speaking for 4.5 yrs, thus meaning we had to wait 5 whole yrs between gigs No need

Chris Nash wrote:

And what's with the Phil bashing? he's a good guy, has helped New order's sound and I can think of a hell of alot of other musicians that would have been a worse choice. The other three obviously thought he'd fit in and SOMEBODY had to replace Gillian - they wouldn't have been able to cope as a threesome.

I say SUPPORT PHIL CUNNINGHAM!

I agree.

I personally have nothing against Phil...I just miss Gillians touch and her presence on stage...most bands have a female lead singer but since she wasn't, she was really part of the band from a chumlike aspect.

((((e))))

eCKOh wrote: I personally have nothing against Phil...I just miss Gillians touch and her presence on stage...most bands have a female lead singer but since she wasn't, she was really part of the band from a chumlike aspect.

((((e))))

Somehow I never felt that the relationship between BS and Gillian was "chumlike."

Patrick wrote:

Somehow I never felt that the relationship between BS and Gillian was "chumlike."

Trick - What band you know doesn't have fights and drama??

eCKOh wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Somehow I never felt that the relationship between BS and Gillian was "chumlike."

Trick - What band you know doesn't have fights and drama??

I suspect you probably know more bands than I do, T.

But I kind of felt that BS and GG really hated each other.

Patrick wrote:

eCKOh wrote:

Patrick wrote:

Somehow I never felt that the relationship between BS and Gillian was "chumlike."

Trick - What band you know doesn't have fights and drama??

I suspect you probably know more bands than I do, T.

But I kind of felt that BS and GG really hated each other.

I don't know anyone not even NO...I just know of stories but if they hated each other so much why would they stay together for so long??...I look at bands as ppl just like the rest of us...dysfunctional.

((((e))))

Overall, I personally would like to see Gillian back...she gave the band a little flare that can't be Philed.

((((e))))

getting corgan to do a song:headoff:

Patrick wrote: But I kind of felt that BS and GG really hated each other.

I don't know, maybe they've had difficult moments between them, and probably in the hardest times when the band was about to split and there was a lot of tension, Bernard felt a bit like threatened by the fact that Hooky was just one like him, but Steve and Gillian were a couple, implying that individually each one of them counted less than Hooky or him, but together they still weighed. And being Gillian the wife of the drummer, there was tension a bit like in a family relationship between you and your wife's mother. Also Gillian has alwyas been terribly shy and this made her look weak in the eyes of Bernard, who as any naughty boy would target the weakest one to get off his tension, but I think at this more like about a role she had more than a proper bad feeling... But I couldn't guess there was hate between them in the 80s, certainly not in 1998 when I met them reunited... they all looked like honestly happy together...

Let's see...

• Those identical Jamaican remixes of RIAD.
• Releasing Jetstream as the 2nd single instead of GIAUE.
• Money management.
• Not releasing Recycle!
• Not convincing Gillian to come back, even part-time.
• Not encouraging Johnny Marr to join.
• Not touring enough! (at least anymore)

(I was going to mention the lay-off from 93-01, but in fairness we got some real good side projects' albums and songs.)

Lots to choose from, but I still love 'em!

Miss Disco wrote: God, looks like I've opened a can of worms here! I'll answer people's points one at a time; you first, Al, seeing as I noticed your post first.

Al Jarvis wrote: MD, have you got religion or summat?!

Do you drink? And are you fully aware of the effects alcohol have on you? Stumbling around a room giggling isn't half of it!

No, I'm not religious at all, Al; disagreeing with certain things and being religious can be mutually exclusive, they don't necessarily have to go together. Yes, I do drink but I don't get drunk; I've never really done it that often because I always feel too guilty afterwards. Finally, you don't seem to have read my post properly: I didn't mention drink in there at all, I said it was pot that had that effect on the person I was talking about (who, for the record, will remain nameless).

Next:

Clockwork C wrote: Walking around giggling to yourself, and dissappearing into yourself is surely a desirable effect of taking drugs.

That has to be one of the stupidest statements I've ever read on NOOL. Personally, I like to talk to my friends on a night out. You can't do that if you're so out of it that you've entered your own ass.

Finally, on to Lee:

leeharveyoswald1963 wrote:

Drugs have been a major driving force for some of the genius behind music, and art since the beginning of time.

That may well be but it doesn't mean it's right to take them. BTW, it looks like I'm not alone in thinking this way:

Pascal CHAMPAVERT wrote: Drug abuse, undoubtedly the cause of beeing now unable to play live...

There, I've said my piece and given my opinions; now I'll let you lot carry on with the debate, wherever it might go.

*gets coat, leaves thread*

taking drugs in no more wrong than drinking alcohol. get with it sister. alcohol is the WORST DRUG!. don't judge others miss disco. live and let live. just avoid the drunks and junkies.

Andrew Sayer wrote: Biggest mistake was falling old like little kids & not speaking for 4.5 yrs, thus meaning we had to wait 5 whole yrs between gigs No need

Also allowing the great unwashed to forget about them.

I absolutely agree with you. Nothing is wrong with the presence of Phil in the band...Gillian could make a comeback...who know's..

new order...a five member band.... funny

I voted for going to London records.But i dont think that makes a toss ? All the shit with Tony and the Hacienda,Drug use,Nazi Image,Spliting up and making some fucking good songs while apart,Gillian not being in the band,And Mr Cunningham being there instead ???? Well with out all this they would not be the great extrodinary band that they are today. Soon as they spit up we all knew that they were going to get back together.It was just a matter of time.Just one regret though ?And it has be said before in this thread.They split up at there peak !!!And that really did hurt

Someone once said (I forget who) that you should never regret any decision that you have made - you made the best one that you were capable of at that point in time.

As someone who is constantly looking back and wishing I'd done things in different ways I find this idea quite comforting.

As for the drugs, I've never really understood how/why it gets so out of hand for lots in the music 'business' but I presume it's a combination of availability, boredom, pressure and experimentation.

and I wish people would stop slagging phil off!

You got to remember people ...bad publicity sells..like it or not ..Nazi imagery ,drugabuse ..a club where you could abuse drugs..releasing records they wanna release(apart from when London Records got their grubby little hands on them ..well i like to think so ..Jetstream!!?.) all put them in the public eye ..and the public like nothing better than Anti - heroes .. look at the Gallaghers ..when they tell the press to Fook off ..or flash the Vs..it all sells records ...intentionally or not ..