Low Life

I've read many opinions on this forum about the album, and it generally seems that it is most people's desert island disc.

While I respect that, I personally don't get it.

I felt it was a step down for them after P,C&L which gave the miserable, introspective kids a dose of disco as well. With Low Life, I felt they jumped onto the synth pop market to get some cash.

Undoubtedly there'll be people who now hate me for saying that (Uncle Liam nearly had a coronary)but what's your reason for liking the album?

Al Jarvis wrote:

How old are you Christopher?

I'm 19

Al Jarvis wrote: When have New Order ever been followed by 'miserable introspective kids' except, possibly, with the release of Movement?

The JD fans listening to things like Age of Consent and We All Stand

Al Jarvis wrote: And as for synthpop, what's 'synthpop' about the likes of Love Vig and Sunrise?!

Fair enough about Love Vig and Sunrise, but what about The Perfect Kiss, Sooner Than You Think and SubCulture.

Al Jarvis wrote: Low-Life is simply New Order raaawking out at their best, which is why I love it.

Fair enough, but I think Get Ready is the one for rocking out for me. Brotherhood has the perfect balance of guitar tracks and synth tracks.

Al Jarvis wrote: Believe me, Christopher. New Order were followed by anything BUT 'introspective kids' by 1985.

I'm sure that's true, but what I said was that P,C&L still had moments that could be enjoyed by the 'introspective kids'. While Low Life didn't. It seemed, almost, a conscious decision to take this musical path to shed most of them, but attract 'the new hooligan breed' as you so succinctly put it. That's why I don't enjoy Low Life as much.

Al Jarvis wrote: And as for quoting 'Age of Consent' in that genre - I can't think of a more popular song for the new hooligan breed New Order were attracting around that time. It's good ol' fashioned rock and roll.

Take out Barney's vocals and lyrics, put Ian Curtis in and it could be JD. Hooky's bassline could have come from Unknown Pleasures.

Al Jarvis wrote: Synthpop (if it ever existed in these shores) was dead and buried by 1985. A few bands might've declared themselves as 'synthpop' in 82, maybe 83, if not earlier. You know, the likes of Depeche Mode or Yazoo.

Weren't Erasure around at this time as well?

Al Jarvis wrote: But New Order stood back from that cos they've got the big bad drums, the fractured guitars and the growling bass.

I can't comment, as I've never seen them live. On record, the likes of The Perfect Kiss, IMO, still come across as synth pop.

Al Jarvis wrote: And, believe me, to experience Face Up and Subculture live, they're as big and bouncy as anything any genuine rock band could come up with.

While this may be true,all I can go on is the album, and the album doesn't cut the mustard for me.

Al Jarvis wrote: Don't see where you're coming from on Get Ready in comparison to this? Crystal's defo one for the boys down the front. But what else? 60mph is a tad watered down and too obviously singalong, and then everything comes in at a fairly-evened MOR pace thereafter. A few growls here and there, like with Rock The Shack, but nothing that's gonna rival 80's offerings like the afore-mentioned Age of Consents and Sunrises. Perfect Kiss alone would chew up most of Get Ready then spit it out for elevenses!

If we were looking at this in terms of 'traditional' rock and roll, it keeps the synths to a minimum, and brings the guitars to the front. Low Life isn't a 'traditional' rock and roll album. Maybe experimental rock.

Experimental rock would be Age of Consent, Sunrise, Krafty etc. It's maybe a tad unfair to compare both sets.

Al Jarvis wrote: Just listen to the run-out on that track: as I've said on here before, the biggest w*nk-off in pop muzak history. Just keeps cuming, and cuming, and cuming. ..

Ookay...

Spotnick wrote: ...for me, PC&L is 3 studs with many fillers... (Age of Consent, Leave Me Alone and Your Silent Face)

Surely what about 586 and Ultraviolence?

586 is one of the highlights of P, C&L for sure

Plus we wouldn't have Blue Monday. Shouldn't we be thankful for that?

Interesting.....digressing for a bit, I am intrigued about why people get so precious about the different types of fan New Order attracted. Whatsit matter?

What is interesting is the apparent universal appeal of the band from all types - back in 83 when I got into them all 'sorts' liked em - your pop pickers who bought Blue Monday as they would Britney these days, the goth/indie crowd who liked anything vaguely 'different' (Smiths, Cocteaus, Associates etc), musos, your introspective pseudo intellectual crowd as well (Yep they did exist, probably still do to a degree).

What was not particularly apparent to me, certainly up here in Scotland, was the football crowd which Al J refers to. Maybe that following gathered momentum in the latter part of the 80s or perhaps it was more of an english phenomenom. On the other hand, maybe I am just singularly out of touch.......

Whatever, Low Life fucking rocks. I defy anyone to claim TTON is not classic New Order.

WAY TOO DEEP ALL THIS!!

JUST BOUGHT "tHE GO TEAM" - BASED ON LAST NIGHTS MERCURY'S. HOPE ITS GOOD FOR THE CAR STEREO.

the go! team has a couple of very good tracks, ladyflash being one.

but back to the matter in hand low life is may fave new order album. still.

it is classic new order in every respect. great bit of saville artwork, crashing synths, hookys basslines, awful lyrics that may actually be genius lyrics, the only thing wrong with it was that the soingels were actually on there. albeit in different versions...

whereas p c & l is their most overrated IMO.

I think both Christopher and Al are maybe both right. The genius of NO, especially circa 80-85, is the way that they can still surprise you, even with a work that's 20 years old. So yes, Sunrise and LV mobilised the moshpit, but hang-on...what about Elegia? That's on there too. Still wearing that long overcoat? Try This Time Of Night, then. And maybe Face Up and Subculture are taking the pulse of Eurodisco somewhere new.

I also think Christopher is definitely on the money in seeing the synthpop elements on PCL, esp The Village. There's nothing to be ashamed of here.

Low-life is my favourite new order album.

and my local pub in the 'Pool has love vigilantes as track 1 (disk 03) on the Jukey.

Al Jarvis wrote:

Don't get you? You don't like Low-Life cos it's a hooligan's album, and not for geeky introspective kids? What do you make of, say, the likes of Ceremony and Temptation?! Surely two of the biggest anthems New Order can pull from their locker? Should they be written off because big blokes with shaved heads jump up and down and singalong to them at concerts? What about Everything's Gone Green? Surely this year's song for the 'ardcore? And again something which precedes both PCL and Low-Life.

I'm not saying I don't like Low Life because it's a 'hooligan album'. I'm saying I don't like it because of the music, which doesn't cater for the 'geeky introspective kids' in the same way that P,C&L,Ceremony,Temptation and EGG does. What I admire about NO is their ability to cross the divide (e.g. Technique has All The Way, Republic has Regret, P,C&L has 586, Brotherhood has BLT) and still call the territory their own. Low Life has Live Vig, which isn't up to much IMO due to Barney's voice.

Al Jarvis wrote: RE. Age of Consent: Nope, no chance. This has New Order stamped all over it. Curtis wouldn't have come up with this one.

Still have to disagree. The bassline, slowed down, should have been JD. The synth strings at the end could have come from Closer.

Al Jarvis wrote: RE Erasure: Langauge!

Al Jarvis wrote: RE.The Perfect Kiss and Synthpop:Er, I've no idea. How would I know? There's not a cross-over of Erasure / New Order fans. Least, not in this country, in the main. Our American cousins might disagree.Nope, still don't get it. Haven't you heard that final run-out with one of Hooky's finest bass moments in it, or have you only experienced the Low-Life edit? Either way, when I think of that song I just think of the monumental bass finish. It ain't shimmery slinky synth-pop, the likes of, as since you've named them, Erasure gave us.

I have heard the full version. While you may equate the song with the bass run, I equate it with the opening stabs of synths, which stick out like a sore thumb to me. While it isn't 'shimmery slinky synth-pop', it's NO's version of synth-pop.

Al Jarvis wrote: And I still don't like the use of 'synthpop'. New Order might be hard to categorise, but one thing they ain't is [cough] synth-pop. What a terrible label.

That may be true, but to me the album does have moments of synthpop, and it seems others agree with me as well.

Al Jarvis wrote: What, you genuinely just don't like Low-Life? What do you like about New Order then? I'm intrigued.

I love NO for their music,the lyrics and the innovation but Low Life never grabbed me. Even when I was getting into NO, Low Life was the second album I'd bought (after Technique), and it nearly put me off them. And this was before I found out that it is regarded as the definitive NO album, and how it soundtracked Manchester in the summer of 1985.

In one line: Low Life and me don't get along.

Al Jarvis wrote: Are we taking strictly in terms of arrangement? At the end of the day, Low-Life has bollocks. Huge ones. Get Ready just, well, doesn't. Just cos it's got a few snargling guitars and some drums up high doesn't mean it's gonna move an audience the way Low-Life did. That's proper rawk & roll, IMO.

While this may be true for you, I think Get Ready has a heart, while the closest thing Low Life has is Love Vig.

Fair enough.

lowlife is my joint fav NO album with technique face up played live blew me away as a young man if i'd have known then that people would be debating lowlife 20 odd year later,i'd have been over the moon

Along with Technique, it's probably their best album. Granted, there are other albums that have got better songs or more interestgin instrumentation, but Low-Life really works as an album in terms of being a cohesive work.

Low-Life's the best. A solid album like WFTSC but with great songs (Love Vigilantes, Perfect Kiss). I'd be happy if they played all the songs from that album live at their next concert and nothing else. Well, no I wouldn't but you know what I mean. PCL would be my second fav with Technique next and then WFTSC for me. The first side of Technique is a little weak but the second half is excellent.

Al Jarvis wrote:

DC wrote: I also think Christopher is definitely on the money in seeing the synthpop elements on PCL, esp The Village. There's nothing to be ashamed of here.

I still don't get this thing 'synthpop' though. To me, that conjures up images of the afore-mentioned cutesy pop bands like Depeche Mode, well before they developed any sort of 'edge'. Hooky's bass takes the gleam off The Village so that it smacks of New Order.

There's far too much pigeon-holing going on and I find it rather un-British!

Yeah, I don't like pigeonholing either. I just said synthpop 'elements'. I think it goes without saying that New Order were/are something unique and special, but they are not totally isolated from what was going on around them. NO were pioneers rather than followers, but it is kind of interesting to hear the occasional adoption of something else that was around. To me the keyboard melody of The Village,and it's 'sound quality', would definitely fit the synthpop template. Yes, it could even be early DM (fwiw, Vince Clarke-era DM is the only part of that band's output that I can stand). Using the same sort of decontextualization, you can imagine EGG's sequencer on a Giorgio Moroder production, or The Man-Machine as an ancestor of Blue Monday. Or vice-versa. Neither of these are very original observations, I know, but the point is : maybe there are some other bits of New Order that could be from unlikely places.

It's always good to detect influences. It can lead you into circles you'd never have imagined yourself in.

While I'm not overly kenn on TPK, especially the album edit, Low life is one of the best albums, whatever your mood there's a track for you, dancy - TPK & sub culture, guitar pop - love vig, miserable as sin (as I was in 85 for alcohol related reasons) elagia, rocking - Sunrise (fantastic live) almost a perfext album, only beaten by technique and WFTC.

By the way Erasure didn't exist in 85, vince clark was in (or maybe just split) yazoo (or just yazz to the yanks) with alison moyet, then nothing till the late 80's.

Jed Stephens wrote:

By the way Erasure didn't exist in 85, vince clark was in (or maybe just split) yazoo (or just yazz to the yanks) with alison moyet, then nothing till the late 80's.

Thanks.

Low'Life is a collection of songs that they forged live from 1983 through 1984. These were the songs they added to their live set as crowds got bigger and bigger. Synth based cell out? What was Blue Fuckin' Monday??

twist wrote: Low'Life is a collection of songs that they forged live from 1983 through 1984. These were the songs they added to their live set as crowds got bigger and bigger. Synth based cell out? What was Blue Fuckin' Monday??

Pioneering techno.

Christopher Owens wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote: And as for synthpop, what's 'synthpop' about the likes of Love Vig and Sunrise?!

Fair enough about Love Vig and Sunrise, but what about The Perfect Kiss, Sooner Than You Think and SubCulture.

the substance version of subculture is more 'synth-pop' than the one on low-life, surely? i first heard subculture when i bought substance in 1987, my first year as a fan. when i bought low-life the next year i was surprised to find how different it was from the newer version. yes, it uses synthesizers, but it doesn't have the heavily-produced sound of the substance subculture.

Jed Stephens wrote: While I'm not overly kenn on TPK, especially the album edit, Low life is one of the best albums, whatever your mood there's a track for you, dancy - TPK & sub culture, guitar pop - love vig, miserable as sin (as I was in 85 for alcohol related reasons) elagia, rocking - Sunrise (fantastic live) almost a perfext album, only beaten by technique and WFTC.

By the way Erasure didn't exist in 85, vince clark was in (or maybe just split) yazoo (or just yazz to the yanks) with alison moyet, then nothing till the late 80's.

Erasure were formed in 1985. First single/EP that year. First chart hits the year after.

Ha Ha. Someone has a go at Low-Life. I knew as soon as I saw this thread that there would be blood spilt. Its not my personal favorite – Technique is. Saying that – Technique hasn’t a better song than “Sooner than you think”. Low-Life will always be a close 2nd for me.

On the subject of “pioneering”, well, I don’t think it matters too much. Ill indulge a story; on the way down to Kraftwerk on Saturday, lots of people on the coach were chatting about the line up (as you do) – and all that 1 guy could keep on saying was “yeah- Kraftwerk, they’re pioneers”. It really amused me – I had a real shit-eating grin on every time he said it. Its not like what everyone else was saying was really insightful, or that I have anything particularly pertinent to say about the basis of their music. This was basically a bunch of people recycling the “analysis” of Music Journalists that likes to categorize various groups.

For my part: Kraftwerk appropriated the machinery and identity of the Ruhr Valley – and did it very well. They distilled their surroundings, imprinted their own character on the music – and occasionally engaged in a bit of technical tom-foolery. I don’t go to Kraftwerk because of the thought process, but because of what it produces. Any original or interesting thinkers in any field can be called “pioneers” – to me its just a nice way for those who don’t want to think about the thought process to pass it off – and that’s fine. It’s those David-Brent in trendy T-Shirt types that throw the term about in order to be seen, as is some sense knowledgeable that really get me. As I say, it used to annoy me – now I just find it funny.

In a similar sense – Ill never forget being in and around Manchester, and thinking how well Joy Division represented it musically. New Order less so, but they are, my favorite groups. They weren’t the first to use synthesizers or drum machines, and probably not the first to try and cross dancy vibes and rock bass, etc. It basically doesn’t matter. I like them because they just communicate well to me. That’s a pretty subjective thing.

On the “goth” thing – I gather New Order are a lot cooler in the states than in these parts. Certainly in Ireland, they are more likely to be remembered as Worldinmotion / poor stadium band / slightly poppy group that did regret than as alternative / pioneers / independents that I gather they are in the states. As I say – what they say to you can be very different to what they say to those in your milieu. For my part: I don’t like labels – and Low Life is a fucking great album. One of my all time greats.

CAKE - CLOCK - ZWART wrote: Ha Ha. Someone has a go at Low-Life. I knew as soon as I saw this thread that there would be blood spilt. Its not my personal favorite – Technique is. Saying that – Technique hasn’t a better song than “Sooner than you think”. Low-Life will always be a close 2nd for me.

On the subject of “pioneering”, well, I don’t think it matters too much. Ill indulge a story; on the way down to Kraftwerk on Saturday, lots of people on the coach were chatting about the line up (as you do) – and all that 1 guy could keep on saying was “yeah- Kraftwerk, they’re pioneers”. It really amused me – I had a real shit-eating grin on every time he said it. Its not like what everyone else was saying was really insightful, or that I have anything particularly pertinent to say about the basis of their music. This was basically a bunch of people recycling the “analysis” of Music Journalists that likes to categorize various groups.

For my part: Kraftwerk appropriated the machinery and identity of the Ruhr Valley – and did it very well. They distilled their surroundings, imprinted their own character on the music – and occasionally engaged in a bit of technical tom-foolery. I don’t go to Kraftwerk because of the thought process, but because of what it produces. Any original or interesting thinkers in any field can be called “pioneers” – to me its just a nice way for those who don’t want to think about the thought process to pass it off – and that’s fine. It’s those David-Brent in trendy T-Shirt types that throw the term about in order to be seen, as is some sense knowledgeable that really get me. As I say, it used to annoy me – now I just find it funny.

In a similar sense – Ill never forget being in and around Manchester, and thinking how well Joy Division represented it musically. New Order less so, but they are, my favorite groups. They weren’t the first to use synthesizers or drum machines, and probably not the first to try and cross dancy vibes and rock bass, etc. It basically doesn’t matter. I like them because they just communicate well to me. That’s a pretty subjective thing.

On the “goth” thing – I gather New Order are a lot cooler in the states than in these parts. Certainly in Ireland, they are more likely to be remembered as Worldinmotion / poor stadium band / slightly poppy group that did regret than as alternative / pioneers / independents that I gather they are in the states. As I say – what they say to you can be very different to what they say to those in your milieu. For my part: I don’t like labels – and Low Life is a fucking great album. One of my all time greats.

CAKE - CLOCK - ZWART wrote: Ha Ha. Someone has a go at Low-Life. I knew as soon as I saw this thread that there would be blood spilt. Its not my personal favorite – Technique is. Saying that – Technique hasn’t a better song than “Sooner than you think”. Low-Life will always be a close 2nd for me.

On the subject of “pioneering”, well, I don’t think it matters too much. Ill indulge a story; on the way down to Kraftwerk on Saturday, lots of people on the coach were chatting about the line up (as you do) – and all that 1 guy could keep on saying was “yeah- Kraftwerk, they’re pioneers”. It really amused me – I had a real shit-eating grin on every time he said it. Its not like what everyone else was saying was really insightful, or that I have anything particularly pertinent to say about the basis of their music. This was basically a bunch of people recycling the “analysis” of Music Journalists that likes to categorize various groups.

For my part: Kraftwerk appropriated the machinery and identity of the Ruhr Valley – and did it very well. They distilled their surroundings, imprinted their own character on the music – and occasionally engaged in a bit of technical tom-foolery. I don’t go to Kraftwerk because of the thought process, but because of what it produces. Any original or interesting thinkers in any field can be called “pioneers” – to me its just a nice way for those who don’t want to think about the thought process to pass it off – and that’s fine. It’s those David-Brent in trendy T-Shirt types that throw the term about in order to be seen, as is some sense knowledgeable that really get me. As I say, it used to annoy me – now I just find it funny.

In a similar sense – Ill never forget being in and around Manchester, and thinking how well Joy Division represented it musically. New Order less so, but they are, my favorite groups. They weren’t the first to use synthesizers or drum machines, and probably not the first to try and cross dancy vibes and rock bass, etc. It basically doesn’t matter. I like them because they just communicate well to me. That’s a pretty subjective thing.

On the “goth” thing – I gather New Order are a lot cooler in the states than in these parts. Certainly in Ireland, they are more likely to be remembered as Worldinmotion / poor stadium band / slightly poppy group that did regret than as alternative / pioneers / independents that I gather they are in the states. As I say – what they say to you can be very different to what they say to those in your milieu. For my part: I don’t like labels – and Low Life is a fucking great album. One of my all time greats.

Ha! Pulled the trigger too quickly. Let's try again. I agree that the notion of Kraftwerk as pioneers is pretty redundant in 2005. I think the point is that at *once* they were pretty much out there on their own. I am not sure how much it was a calculated move to become the mensch-machines, or whether they gradually found themselves there. Certainly there is pretty big difference between the v.early Ralf & Florian stuff (flutes!) and Autobahn. But you're right, it reflected their environment pretty well and some cunning marketing/styling created an artistic space for them that was probably less original than it looked. They were just better conceptualizers than the likes of Faust, Harmonia, Cluster, Neu! But who cares? It's the output that matters.

New Order are more interesting and hard to pin down if you think about process vs image vs output in the same way. The Factory recds machine was pretty haphazard, but it didn't hurt NO to have their records in Peter Saville sleeves. I', not sure any of us know enough about exactly how they work to say how they did what they did, or what they were aiming at in the first place. I reckon they worked largely on instinct in the earlier years, trying different stuff to see what worked and what they liked. The first album with a coherent sound *that could readily be place in an external context* (i.e didn't jar with '89 dance) was probably Technique. Low-Life is a mish-mash, they're still pushing forward, and that's why it's great.

What was the 'goth thing'?

Low Life should be their best album, given the quality of the songs on it. A pity that it sounds produced and edited by trainees. Then again, doing themselves justice was never that high on the agenda, was it?

Surely it's genrally acknowleged these days that the "image" and "enigmatic" qualities were largely the work of Gretton, Wilson, Saville et al, and that the band themselves were much more interested in getting off their tits in one way or another? When I were a youth, I used to think they were glacial, intellectual Gods: imagine my face when I first started picking up bootlegs and realised they were talentless pernod-swilling chancers with a neat line in foul and abusive language and barely concealed contempt for their audience.

Someone from the Sugarcubes once said that true love is when you like your partner's fart as much as you like your partner's fuck.......

If you do not like Low-Life I guess what you are saying is that NO should not have released an album until Brotherhood, not that there are many introspective songs on that lp, nor on Technique.

Jed Stephens wrote: While I'm not overly kenn on TPK, especially the album edit, Low life is one of the best albums, whatever your mood there's a track for you, dancy - TPK & sub culture, guitar pop - love vig, miserable as sin (as I was in 85 for alcohol related reasons) elagia, rocking - Sunrise (fantastic live) almost a perfext album, only beaten by technique and WFTC.

By the way Erasure didn't exist in 85, vince clark was in (or maybe just split) yazoo (or just yazz to the yanks) with alison moyet, then nothing till the late 80's.

Erasure charted with thir first hit (Sometimes) in 1986.

Doctor Clayhead wrote: Surely it's genrally acknowleged these days that the "image" and "enigmatic" qualities were largely the work of Gretton, Wilson, Saville et al, and that the band themselves were much more interested in getting off their tits in one way or another? When I were a youth, I used to think they were glacial, intellectual Gods: imagine my face when I first started picking up bootlegs and realised they were talentless pernod-swilling chancers with a neat line in foul and abusive language and barely concealed contempt for their audience.

quote]

But, regardless of the hooligan side of NO, the music was up to the job of matching the glacial, intellectual artwork. Which proves thay they are/were much cleverer than they appear. Anyone can make cock jokes and drink themselves stupid. Hardly anyone can write a Temptation or a TPK.

DC wrote:

Doctor Clayhead wrote: Surely it's genrally acknowleged these days that the "image" and "enigmatic" qualities were largely the work of Gretton, Wilson, Saville et al, and that the band themselves were much more interested in getting off their tits in one way or another? When I were a youth, I used to think they were glacial, intellectual Gods: imagine my face when I first started picking up bootlegs and realised they were talentless pernod-swilling chancers with a neat line in foul and abusive language and barely concealed contempt for their audience.

quote]

But, regardless of the hooligan side of NO, the music was up to the job of matching the glacial, intellectual artwork. Which proves thay they are/were much cleverer than they appear. Anyone can make cock jokes and drink themselves stupid. Hardly anyone can write a Temptation or a TPK.

Yeah, but few people can make cock jokes and drink themselves stupid with quite as much panache as New Order and their fans, eh?

twist wrote: If you do not like Low-Life I guess what you are saying is that NO should not have released an album until Brotherhood, not that there are many introspective songs on that lp, nor on Technique.

I think this is what you mean:

If you don't like/dislike the same album as me, you're not a real fan.

Al Jarvis wrote:

Er, Blue Monday certainly isn't 'techno'

I think that it, at least, has certain techno elements to it e.g. the famous drumbeats.

Al Jarvis wrote: and is perhaps only pioneering in the sense that it opened up this 'sort' of music to a different audience, but in no way was the arrangement itself pioneering. Check out Patrick Cowley (RIP) if you need proof.

Is this the same Patrick Cowley whose remix of 'I Feel Love' is on NO'S Back To Mine?

DC wrote:

Jed Stephens wrote: While I'm not overly kenn on TPK, especially the album edit, Low life is one of the best albums, whatever your mood there's a track for you, dancy - TPK & sub culture, guitar pop - love vig, miserable as sin (as I was in 85 for alcohol related reasons) elagia, rocking - Sunrise (fantastic live) almost a perfext album, only beaten by technique and WFTC.

By the way Erasure didn't exist in 85, vince clark was in (or maybe just split) yazoo (or just yazz to the yanks) with alison moyet, then nothing till the late 80's.

Erasure were formed in 1985. First single/EP that year. First chart hits the year after.

Don't forget The Assembly as well, post Yazoo, pre- Erasure. First Erasure album, Wonderland was 1986.

Who said there was no NO/Erasure crossover here

Christopher Owens wrote:

I think that it, at least, has certain techno elements to it e.g. the famous drumbeats.

You'll find that people who know fuck-all about New Order, synthpop, or anything before 1991 for that matter still know that drum sequence by heart. It's scorched onto the popculture subconscious for all time the same way the synthy pulse melody of BLT is.

BEST NO ALBUM...Technique is a close second if you take out fine time.

That one really hurts my ears

((((e))))

What's all this 'introspective' malarky? Low-Life's got some class songs. If you don't think so, no one's forcing you to like it!