Low Life

I've read many opinions on this forum about the album, and it generally seems that it is most people's desert island disc.

While I respect that, I personally don't get it.

I felt it was a step down for them after P,C&L which gave the miserable, introspective kids a dose of disco as well. With Low Life, I felt they jumped onto the synth pop market to get some cash.

Undoubtedly there'll be people who now hate me for saying that (Uncle Liam nearly had a coronary)but what's your reason for liking the album?

Al Jarvis wrote:

How old are you Christopher?

I'm 19

Al Jarvis wrote: When have New Order ever been followed by 'miserable introspective kids' except, possibly, with the release of Movement?

The JD fans listening to things like Age of Consent and We All Stand

Al Jarvis wrote: And as for synthpop, what's 'synthpop' about the likes of Love Vig and Sunrise?!

Fair enough about Love Vig and Sunrise, but what about The Perfect Kiss, Sooner Than You Think and SubCulture.

Al Jarvis wrote: Low-Life is simply New Order raaawking out at their best, which is why I love it.

Fair enough, but I think Get Ready is the one for rocking out for me. Brotherhood has the perfect balance of guitar tracks and synth tracks.

Al Jarvis wrote: Believe me, Christopher. New Order were followed by anything BUT 'introspective kids' by 1985.

I'm sure that's true, but what I said was that P,C&L still had moments that could be enjoyed by the 'introspective kids'. While Low Life didn't. It seemed, almost, a conscious decision to take this musical path to shed most of them, but attract 'the new hooligan breed' as you so succinctly put it. That's why I don't enjoy Low Life as much.

Al Jarvis wrote: And as for quoting 'Age of Consent' in that genre - I can't think of a more popular song for the new hooligan breed New Order were attracting around that time. It's good ol' fashioned rock and roll.

Take out Barney's vocals and lyrics, put Ian Curtis in and it could be JD. Hooky's bassline could have come from Unknown Pleasures.

Al Jarvis wrote: Synthpop (if it ever existed in these shores) was dead and buried by 1985. A few bands might've declared themselves as 'synthpop' in 82, maybe 83, if not earlier. You know, the likes of Depeche Mode or Yazoo.

Weren't Erasure around at this time as well?

Al Jarvis wrote: But New Order stood back from that cos they've got the big bad drums, the fractured guitars and the growling bass.

I can't comment, as I've never seen them live. On record, the likes of The Perfect Kiss, IMO, still come across as synth pop.

Al Jarvis wrote: And, believe me, to experience Face Up and Subculture live, they're as big and bouncy as anything any genuine rock band could come up with.

While this may be true,all I can go on is the album, and the album doesn't cut the mustard for me.

Al Jarvis wrote: Don't see where you're coming from on Get Ready in comparison to this? Crystal's defo one for the boys down the front. But what else? 60mph is a tad watered down and too obviously singalong, and then everything comes in at a fairly-evened MOR pace thereafter. A few growls here and there, like with Rock The Shack, but nothing that's gonna rival 80's offerings like the afore-mentioned Age of Consents and Sunrises. Perfect Kiss alone would chew up most of Get Ready then spit it out for elevenses!

If we were looking at this in terms of 'traditional' rock and roll, it keeps the synths to a minimum, and brings the guitars to the front. Low Life isn't a 'traditional' rock and roll album. Maybe experimental rock.

Experimental rock would be Age of Consent, Sunrise, Krafty etc. It's maybe a tad unfair to compare both sets.

Al Jarvis wrote: Just listen to the run-out on that track: as I've said on here before, the biggest w*nk-off in pop muzak history. Just keeps cuming, and cuming, and cuming. ..

Ookay...

Spotnick wrote: ...for me, PC&L is 3 studs with many fillers... (Age of Consent, Leave Me Alone and Your Silent Face)

Surely what about 586 and Ultraviolence?

586 is one of the highlights of P, C&L for sure

Plus we wouldn't have Blue Monday. Shouldn't we be thankful for that?

Interesting.....digressing for a bit, I am intrigued about why people get so precious about the different types of fan New Order attracted. Whatsit matter?

What is interesting is the apparent universal appeal of the band from all types - back in 83 when I got into them all 'sorts' liked em - your pop pickers who bought Blue Monday as they would Britney these days, the goth/indie crowd who liked anything vaguely 'different' (Smiths, Cocteaus, Associates etc), musos, your introspective pseudo intellectual crowd as well (Yep they did exist, probably still do to a degree).

What was not particularly apparent to me, certainly up here in Scotland, was the football crowd which Al J refers to. Maybe that following gathered momentum in the latter part of the 80s or perhaps it was more of an english phenomenom. On the other hand, maybe I am just singularly out of touch.......

Whatever, Low Life fucking rocks. I defy anyone to claim TTON is not classic New Order.

WAY TOO DEEP ALL THIS!!

JUST BOUGHT "tHE GO TEAM" - BASED ON LAST NIGHTS MERCURY'S. HOPE ITS GOOD FOR THE CAR STEREO.

the go! team has a couple of very good tracks, ladyflash being one.

but back to the matter in hand low life is may fave new order album. still.

it is classic new order in every respect. great bit of saville artwork, crashing synths, hookys basslines, awful lyrics that may actually be genius lyrics, the only thing wrong with it was that the soingels were actually on there. albeit in different versions...

whereas p c & l is their most overrated IMO.

I think both Christopher and Al are maybe both right. The genius of NO, especially circa 80-85, is the way that they can still surprise you, even with a work that's 20 years old. So yes, Sunrise and LV mobilised the moshpit, but hang-on...what about Elegia? That's on there too. Still wearing that long overcoat? Try This Time Of Night, then. And maybe Face Up and Subculture are taking the pulse of Eurodisco somewhere new.

I also think Christopher is definitely on the money in seeing the synthpop elements on PCL, esp The Village. There's nothing to be ashamed of here.

Low-life is my favourite new order album.

and my local pub in the 'Pool has love vigilantes as track 1 (disk 03) on the Jukey.

Al Jarvis wrote:

Don't get you? You don't like Low-Life cos it's a hooligan's album, and not for geeky introspective kids? What do you make of, say, the likes of Ceremony and Temptation?! Surely two of the biggest anthems New Order can pull from their locker? Should they be written off because big blokes with shaved heads jump up and down and singalong to them at concerts? What about Everything's Gone Green? Surely this year's song for the 'ardcore? And again something which precedes both PCL and Low-Life.

I'm not saying I don't like Low Life because it's a 'hooligan album'. I'm saying I don't like it because of the music, which doesn't cater for the 'geeky introspective kids' in the same way that P,C&L,Ceremony,Temptation and EGG does. What I admire about NO is their ability to cross the divide (e.g. Technique has All The Way, Republic has Regret, P,C&L has 586, Brotherhood has BLT) and still call the territory their own. Low Life has Live Vig, which isn't up to much IMO due to Barney's voice.

Al Jarvis wrote: RE. Age of Consent: Nope, no chance. This has New Order stamped all over it. Curtis wouldn't have come up with this one.

Still have to disagree. The bassline, slowed down, should have been JD. The synth strings at the end could have come from Closer.

Al Jarvis wrote: RE Erasure: Langauge!

Al Jarvis wrote: RE.The Perfect Kiss and Synthpop:Er, I've no idea. How would I know? There's not a cross-over of Erasure / New Order fans. Least, not in this country, in the main. Our American cousins might disagree.Nope, still don't get it. Haven't you heard that final run-out with one of Hooky's finest bass moments in it, or have you only experienced the Low-Life edit? Either way, when I think of that song I just think of the monumental bass finish. It ain't shimmery slinky synth-pop, the likes of, as since you've named them, Erasure gave us.

I have heard the full version. While you may equate the song with the bass run, I equate it with the opening stabs of synths, which stick out like a sore thumb to me. While it isn't 'shimmery slinky synth-pop', it's NO's version of synth-pop.

Al Jarvis wrote: And I still don't like the use of 'synthpop'. New Order might be hard to categorise, but one thing they ain't is [cough] synth-pop. What a terrible label.

That may be true, but to me the album does have moments of synthpop, and it seems others agree with me as well.

Al Jarvis wrote: What, you genuinely just don't like Low-Life? What do you like about New Order then? I'm intrigued.

I love NO for their music,the lyrics and the innovation but Low Life never grabbed me. Even when I was getting into NO, Low Life was the second album I'd bought (after Technique), and it nearly put me off them. And this was before I found out that it is regarded as the definitive NO album, and how it soundtracked Manchester in the summer of 1985.

In one line: Low Life and me don't get along.

Al Jarvis wrote: Are we taking strictly in terms of arrangement? At the end of the day, Low-Life has bollocks. Huge ones. Get Ready just, well, doesn't. Just cos it's got a few snargling guitars and some drums up high doesn't mean it's gonna move an audience the way Low-Life did. That's proper rawk & roll, IMO.

While this may be true for you, I think Get Ready has a heart, while the closest thing Low Life has is Love Vig.

Fair enough.

lowlife is my joint fav NO album with technique face up played live blew me away as a young man if i'd have known then that people would be debating lowlife 20 odd year later,i'd have been over the moon

Along with Technique, it's probably their best album. Granted, there are other albums that have got better songs or more interestgin instrumentation, but Low-Life really works as an album in terms of being a cohesive work.

Low-Life's the best. A solid album like WFTSC but with great songs (Love Vigilantes, Perfect Kiss). I'd be happy if they played all the songs from that album live at their next concert and nothing else. Well, no I wouldn't but you know what I mean. PCL would be my second fav with Technique next and then WFTSC for me. The first side of Technique is a little weak but the second half is excellent.

Al Jarvis wrote:

DC wrote: I also think Christopher is definitely on the money in seeing the synthpop elements on PCL, esp The Village. There's nothing to be ashamed of here.

I still don't get this thing 'synthpop' though. To me, that conjures up images of the afore-mentioned cutesy pop bands like Depeche Mode, well before they developed any sort of 'edge'. Hooky's bass takes the gleam off The Village so that it smacks of New Order.

There's far too much pigeon-holing going on and I find it rather un-British!

Yeah, I don't like pigeonholing either. I just said synthpop 'elements'. I think it goes without saying that New Order were/are something unique and special, but they are not totally isolated from what was going on around them. NO were pioneers rather than followers, but it is kind of interesting to hear the occasional adoption of something else that was around. To me the keyboard melody of The Village,and it's 'sound quality', would definitely fit the synthpop template. Yes, it could even be early DM (fwiw, Vince Clarke-era DM is the only part of that band's output that I can stand). Using the same sort of decontextualization, you can imagine EGG's sequencer on a Giorgio Moroder production, or The Man-Machine as an ancestor of Blue Monday. Or vice-versa. Neither of these are very original observations, I know, but the point is : maybe there are some other bits of New Order that could be from unlikely places.

It's always good to detect influences. It can lead you into circles you'd never have imagined yourself in.

While I'm not overly kenn on TPK, especially the album edit, Low life is one of the best albums, whatever your mood there's a track for you, dancy - TPK & sub culture, guitar pop - love vig, miserable as sin (as I was in 85 for alcohol related reasons) elagia, rocking - Sunrise (fantastic live) almost a perfext album, only beaten by technique and WFTC.

By the way Erasure didn't exist in 85, vince clark was in (or maybe just split) yazoo (or just yazz to the yanks) with alison moyet, then nothing till the late 80's.

Jed Stephens wrote:

By the way Erasure didn't exist in 85, vince clark was in (or maybe just split) yazoo (or just yazz to the yanks) with alison moyet, then nothing till the late 80's.

Thanks.

Low'Life is a collection of songs that they forged live from 1983 through 1984. These were the songs they added to their live set as crowds got bigger and bigger. Synth based cell out? What was Blue Fuckin' Monday??

twist wrote: Low'Life is a collection of songs that they forged live from 1983 through 1984. These were the songs they added to their live set as crowds got bigger and bigger. Synth based cell out? What was Blue Fuckin' Monday??

Pioneering techno.