Original Ceremony

rerecorded versions are usually crap. that said, new order is different.

the 12" versions, the '87 rerecordings and the ceremony rerecording are all individual cases. of course, i got substance first, only had brotherhood by that point. naturally, me then being a red-blooded american teenage male, i liked the original b.l.t. better than the 12". i didn't like dance music by that point. (new order got me into it.) other 12" versions (perfect kiss for example) are obviously superior.

i didn't know the original of confusion, so i thought it was a crap song... the '87 confusion is still my least favorite remake (the '87 dub may be my favorite).

temptation i got later. loved the '87 version, but the '82 was a revelation. it took me a couple of years to re-realize the genius of the '87. '82 may be their most perfect song, being everything that new order set out to be, but the '87 is a perfect pop song as well. absolutely beautiful.

ceremony was the last 12" i got from the substance era. i always liked the substance version, but i was totally blown away by the original. maybe because it was almost 8 years after i first heard the song... i don't know. if i have the choice, i always go with the original version when making mixes. one day soon, the substance version may strike me again. i don't doubt that it will. that's the great thing about new order.

the day that i rediscovered the '87 temptation was almost as good as the day i figured out perfect kiss.-->

we all, as new order fans, will listen to every goddamn version of every track they ever record. if you haven't heard the original version of ceremony, go and get it. it's great. if you say the '87 version of temptation sucks, go and listen to it again. if you still don't like it, wait a while and listen to it again. it's just 7 minutes of your life, and when you finally do like it, it will be well worth your time. and then listen to the '82 again. and let them fight it out. it's like hearing it for the first time.. ahh... new order... i love you...

Shivers down my spine, hairs on the back of my neck, goose pimples-whatever. Does for me every time, a million listens or not. Live, the opening notes will send most fans delirious hope they play it next week at the peel thingy. Go with the 7' version as well, no explanations just prefer it.

Al Jarvis wrote: Hold on, just as an aside, it's the first single New Order released.

And that was well over 24 years ago.

How could you 'not have heard it in full' after all these years?!

I'm 20. It'd be a bit hard to track down the 7", especially in the states. Where else would I have heard it?

is the 7" different from the 12" on ceremony? oh my. shit.

isnt the original on the new album "single", sounds lot more rawer and slower

I love both versions, but the bass sounds different in the original version, and for some reason it just sounds more agressive to me. I've gotten people hooked on the band with that version. I wouldn't say it's lifeless though. It depends on your mood really; if you want raw energy listen to the original, if you just want to hear a truely beautiful song, listen to the Substance version.

The appeal of the original version for me is that all the parts are more distinct -- you can actually understand Barney, the bass roars rather than just blending in with the fusillade of guitars as on the re-recorded version. There's more sense of space and separation in the original. The re-recorded version is appealing precisely for its sheer monolithic thrust, but the original is the one I prefer. It sounds more charactistically New Order; Barney's smothered vox on the re-recording are faux JD.

ok ron here again. I guess I'm going to have to dig out my original 7" again. I usually just listen to the original 12" which I do have on cd. I just love the understated vocals and the booming bass.

Steve singing? Is that the one from the mutimedia section of this site! I can hardly make out his voice. I'd love to hear Steve sing it.

Then I've got a bit of a soft spot for Steve.

(Ignoring 30 yr age gap for a moment)

I marginally prefer the 7" original - more power blah, blah, as everyone has said. The rerecording is still fantastic though, lots of space in the production, maybe a touch too much? Everything seems a little bit further away. My favourite version is Blackpool 1980, with Steve on vocals. Wonderful!

Despite being an old fart who was there at the time, I do not share the reverence for the orig Temptation over the 87 version. The orig is a bit clanky for me - there are moments when everything feels too tinny. But you know, both are great really, so what does it matter?

Hey Biz, you post on ILM, don't you?

Al Jarvis wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: The original Ceremony is more Dirge like and less of the storming gig jump-up than the rerecorded version.

Don't know why you feel the need to make this thread almost personal, Brian, but one wonders how the fcuk you know what a 'storming gig jump-up' version of Ceremony is, exactly, seeing as you've never seen them play the track live?! Er, and if you had, you live on the West Coast of the US where fans don't do 'storming gig jump-ups'!

And as for the 'hairs on the back of your neck' syndrome?! Did people even mention that on this thread, not sure?! But I'll go along with that analogy. I can't even remember the last time I heard the 7" of Ceremony. I'd have been truly blown away if I'd stuck on Singles (which hasn't arrived yet) not knowing they'd used the 7" instead (I only read it on a thread this week) to hear it blasting through my speakers. Ceremony is a nasty, bouncy track live. One of the most incendiary in New Order's reportoire I'd have said. Always gets crowds jumping all over one another. I just think the 7" carries that emotion more readily than the 12" which, to me, seems more laconic and lounge-bar by comparison.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

It might be worth consulting someone from the medical profession to see if hair folicles do actually stand on end when you hear something and as for shivers down the spine that's ridiculous humans don't shiver.

has anyone else noticed they seem to have reversed the left and right channels on Ceremony on Singles? (or at least on the CD-R promo I have). The original vinyl has all the hi-hat on the right, the Singles version is on the left.

Of course it could just be my promo, haven't bought the final version yet

one wonders how the fcuk you know what a 'storming gig jump-up' version of Ceremony is, exactly, seeing as you've never seen them play the track live?!

Biznotic Love Tool or wotever he calls himself always comes across as a bit of a killjoy prick to me when I make my infrequent visits to this forum, and Al's quote above has reinforced that opinion!

As for Ceremony and Temptation 7in versions - they certainly blew me away when listening to them on CD on headphones for the first time this morning, it was like Christmas and my birthday rolled into one with a lottery win thrown in.

So up yours, BLT, you miserable twat.

lowlife wrote:

one wonders how the fcuk you know what a 'storming gig jump-up' version of Ceremony is, exactly, seeing as you've never seen them play the track live?!

Biznotic Love Tool or wotever he calls himself always comes across as a bit of a killjoy prick to me when I make my infrequent visits to this forum, and Al's quote above has reinforced that opinion!

As for Ceremony and Temptation 7in versions - they certainly blew me away when listening to them on CD on headphones for the first time this morning, it was like Christmas and my birthday rolled into one with a lottery win thrown in.

So up yours, BLT, you miserable twat.

Miserable twat + killjoy prick in equal measures. Perhaps i'm also someone who enjoys going against the grain to get to the bottom of a divide in opinion. I just do it with the tack and subtlety of a drunk elephant. I am arguing against an opinion, not an individual, despite the personal attacks on me.

Al, you are correct in stating that i've never been in the audience for a version of Ceremony but i've never met George W. Bush and i know he's a fucking moron/asshole who deserves to get shot. Do i need to actually meet him to know that for myself or is anecdotel evidence enough? As for the 12" rerecorded mix being 'laconic' and 'loungy', again, i'd have to say you've got the versions mixed up. The tempo of the 7" is distinctively slower and more languid. On 7", it's a mid-tempo ballad (dirge) but on the 12" it's clearly got more drive. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point since i'm obviously the only one able to call it like i see it, despite risking not being 'authentic' or 'old school'. I love both versions, but think the 12" mix has more energy. The 7" mix has more atmosphere, but to say it's more energetic is akin to stating Bush Jr. is a genius.

If you like the original, great.

If you like the Substance version, great.

There's no need to argue over it.

DC wrote: I marginally prefer the 7" original - more power blah, blah, as everyone has said. The rerecording is still fantastic though, lots of space in the production, maybe a touch too much? Everything seems a little bit further away. My favourite version is Blackpool 1980, with Steve on vocals. Wonderful!

Despite being an old fart who was there at the time, I do not share the reverence for the orig Temptation over the 87 version. The orig is a bit clanky for me - there are moments when everything feels too tinny. But you know, both are great really, so what does it matter?

Hey Biz, you post on ILM, don't you?

yes, i post at ILM. What's your user name there?

Your post illustrates my feeling about authenticity and an unspoken 'rule' amongst fans of most bands; ie. the closest performance to the original performance is almost always touted as being the best. You state the Blackpool 80 version with Steve on vocals is your 'favorite'. While i find that version intersting, i also find it impossible to come back to because of it's awful sound quality. I cannot have a 'favorite' version of a song that i can't listen to on a regular basis. 10 times out of 10, i'll put the 7" Ceremony on a mix, because i find it the most interesting mix of the track.

Good point about Temptation. I actually haven't played the 87 version for ages. I love the rawness of the 82 7/12" versions and also love the short and sweet 98 rerecording. The point is, i really haven't heard a version of Temptation done by New Order that i dislike. I can't say the 87 mix is awful and ruins that track, even if i prefer the other mixes. It simply isn't true. I think folks are being dishonest when they say New Order stripped the track of it's feeling in 87.

Jonathan wrote: Christy, thanks for your attempt of clarifying it. I guess i knew that already.

I also would like to say hello because im never online at the same time with you now.

hello to you too, jonathan.

and regarding a question asked above: i do believe hairs can stand up on one's neck, as a result of an adrenaline rush. the same principle applies when a cat's hair stands up on its tail and back when it's angry or frightened. just a little aside.

off subject: " cant get you out of my head"by kylie sends chills down my spine. I wondering how that lovely lady is doing battling cancer.

i was listening to 50 Cent today and one of his songs has a GUN SHOT sound in it. The HAIRS STOOD ON THE BACK OF MY NECK! What a raw feeling of emotion that 50Cent guy brings. PHWOAR!

ok. now we're getting somewhere. perhaps it's the 'tone' and sonic quality of the bass in the intro that provokes the response. It sounds like the bass in the intro on the rerecording has been compressed. It doesn't sound as full (or PHAT, to the younger bredren) as the 7" intro. Bernard's guitar line that comes in after the intial bass/drums is also considerably slower and conveys the sense that these 3 guys were still trying to find their way after losing Curtis. The uncertainty and desperate mood certainly comes across on 7". The 12" version sounds more confident and aggressive. If by 'bollocks' you're referring to the overall tone of the sounds, the tonal quality of the notes being warmer/thicker, then I can totally see that. My interpretation of the use of 'bollocks' to describe the 7" has, until this point, been linked to the 'energy' of the track. To me Energy = Tempo. Right or wrong, that's how i interpret it. Emotion, however is a different story.

Shug wrote: Brian mate - if I send you the slipcase and the three 7" singles will you gies peace?

Shug, you know how much i love arguing. Honestly, i'm at work right now, not doing a thing (HEY ROCKET MICK!!!) so a good stir of the pot keeps me sane.

I'd love the Slipcase Shug, but the 7"s have already arrived at my humble pad. If you promise to send it, i'll refrain from arguing. Honest!

i didnt buy it on the day of release but the 7" is just a thumping stomper of a song!.great vocal peformance from Barney,great sounding guitars and great Hooky bass.

the other version? um.. a damp squib

Shug wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote:

Shug wrote: Brian mate - if I send you the slipcase and the three 7" singles will you gies peace?

Shug, you know how much i love arguing. Honestly, i'm at work right now, not doing a thing (HEY ROCKET MICK!!!) so a good stir of the pot keeps me sane.

I'd love the Slipcase Shug, but the 7"s have already arrived at my humble pad. If you promise to send it, i'll refrain from arguing. Honest!

Slipcase will be on its way over once I receive it masel compadre, yer debating skills have got worse over the years by the way, incorporate the words fuckwit and gobshite more often and you'll be on the right path - we're all big enough (Al) and ugly enough (Rocket Mick) to take it ;)

Have i MISSED something?

OK you are going on about ceremony 7 and 12 being different but I have two versions of the 12 a green sleeve and a blue and white are these different mixes? Also which version of perfect kiss is it? I have two 7" versions one is a FBN123/7 in a picture sleeve with a normalish short version and the uk 7" FAC123/7 with a weird ivan ivan edit c/w a weird perfect pitt (not sure if that was a promo though).