Original Ceremony

jesse steichen wrote:

Al Jarvis wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: ok. now we're getting somewhere.

Indeed, we probably are. I hear a bassline which makes me want to bounce off walls. You hear something you need to sit down and analyse. Therein probably lies the principal difference between US and UK fanbases, and certainly explains the atmosphere (or lack of) generated at gigs across our two shores.

no offense, but, oh, what a load of crap. it's absolutely baseless. i saw arcade fire here and thought the floor was going to fall through because of all the hopping about. i saw clap your hands say yeah and stood there like a sullen indie kid. i saw shellac and got beat up by a girl (whom i beat right back). it all depends on the gig.
people on both sides of the ocean listen to music analytically. people on both sides jump around at gigs. if new order played a decent venue (one without "auditorium" after and some corporate logo before) then there would be sweat dripping off the ceiling. are all english reserved? of course not. it's a stereotype and we all know it. what you've got to say is just ridiculous. i can't believe that you would believe that. it's just so ignorant. what next?

yeah, i ignored Al's statement initially but it really is part of the wider argument. No, i do not need to 'sit down and analyze' Ceremony, but i will analyze it SITTING DOWN, on an online forum. That's the FUCKING POINT of being here, to analyze/share/discuss etc the music. If you can't handle a remotely intellegent discussion of the sonic qualities of the music, then keep discussing the bogus Raw Emotion and Energy you feel when you hear Ceremony 7". I guess that's what makes Americans different from UK fans, we have brains that aren't swimming in LAGER, LAGER, LAGER and pseudo-macho Hooliganism. UK fans are the only contingent in the world who can't stand to have New Order grouped with their contemporaries, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys etc. Too 'girlie' for the ARDCORE! Well, guess what? Everywhere else in the world, people group New Order with The Cure, Depeche and Pet Shoppers. It doesn't mean the boys are Gay or even soft, but it's a logical grouping.

as for Ceremony, i love both versions, but still can't see how people can claim the original has more "energy". it's a bogus argument that can't be substatiated with anything other than slander and aggression.

Al Jarvis wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: If you can't handle a remotely intellegent discussion of the sonic qualities of the music, then keep discussing the bogus Raw Emotion and Energy you feel when you hear Ceremony 7".

You could promote intelligent discourse, if you could at least spell the word, Brian, instead of just ranting.

You amaze me. I've met you twice in the flesh and you always come across as the shy retiring type, careful of what you have to say. Stick you behind a keyboard though and you're Conan the fcuking Barbarian. Such an odd transformation.

the dichotomy of Brian in real life and Brian on teh internets is fascinating. spelling isn't my subject and i could care less how i spell online. it ain't being graded!

that's part of the fun of discussing/arguing on the internet. i'm really not a brash, outspoken guy in person. i love to argue though. i enjoy provoking people to get the heart of the difference in opinions. i also don't take any of this online banter seriously. i would be thrilled to hang out with Digital Mike (gasp!) for an afternoon, despite our online clashes. i loved jumping around with you guys in Oakland. i suppose my approach online needs a bit of a muzzle but who knows if it will happen.

Al Jarvis wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: i love to argue though. i enjoy provoking people to get the heart of the difference in opinions. i also don't take any of this online banter seriously. i would be thrilled to hang out with Digital Mike (gasp!) for an afternoon, despite our online clashes. i loved jumping around with you guys in Oakland. i suppose my approach online needs a bit of a muzzle but who knows if it will happen.

You say tom-aye-toe, I say tom-argh-toe!

or: You say Tom-argh-toe, I say YOU STUPID UK FAN ARSEWHIPE how dare you hold a different opinion than me! AARRGHHH..FLAMEFLAMEFLAME!!!!:D

"Everywhere else in the world, people group New Order with The Cure, Depeche and Pet Shoppers."

I group New Order with The Velvet Underground.

I couldnt agree with you more, Johnny.

I can't believe what I'm reading here. Some of the posts above are slightly racistic. Oh dear.

Yeah, they share a lot with the Velvet Underground. Barney's unsteady voice can at times be a Kraftwerkian Lou Reed impression. But he sings great on Technique, and I can't remember hearing a Velvets record or a Lou solo disc where I think Lou Reed is consistent in his singing. However, New Order's contemporaries rarely held a candle to the quality of New Order's records. Their only competition in my eyes were the Smiths and the Bunnymen.

Back to the versions on 'Singles' though. What's the 'Thieves' edit like?

Al Jarvis wrote:

jesse steichen wrote: if new order played a decent venue (one without "auditorium" after and some corporate logo before) then there would be sweat dripping off the ceiling.

Having seen New Order in New York and Chicago this year in 'auditoriums' I can assure you, that isn't the case. Though I'm sure you can point me in the direction of gigs where this happened?! At least I'm talking from experience, rather than just spouting hot air and hyperbole.

Wow. What you didn't notice in the quote above is that I said, "WITHOUT "auditorium" after..." Never see any band in the States at a fucking auditorium. See them in a proper club with proper sound, not on some basketball court... So, the experience you are talking about is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Like I said, depends on the show.

NObabe wrote: I can't believe what I'm reading here. Some of the posts above are slightly racistic. Oh dear.

WTF? Goths aren't a race, they're a sub-culture. WTF? Racistic? What posts?

are you actually Johnny Cochran in disguise? He's got a full deck of race cards, even in the grave he's holding a full house.

maybe i missed something, but what posts would you considered racist? I cant be bother to look through.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote:

NObabe wrote: I can't believe what I'm reading here. Some of the posts above are slightly racistic. Oh dear.

WTF? Goths aren't a race, they're a sub-culture. WTF? Racistic? What posts?

are you actually Johnny Cochran in disguise? He's got a full deck of race cards, even in the grave he's holding a full house.

You can chill out, Brian, I probably for the first time in my life share your point of view on this subject. Nothing to do with Goths though. It's just that this Brit Vs. American NO fanbase thing is truly getting on my nerves.

Maya, i agree with you and see what your saying. I see a tendency for the british fans to sterotype the american fans. Maybe vice-versa is true also.

have chilled out now Maya. agreed on the UK vs US fan thing. have nothing but respect for the lads when we're face to face, cuz they're SOUND AS A POUND. but the type of things being levelled at US fans is absurd.