Original Ceremony

Shug wrote: :D

Just out of interest Rocket, which version of Ceremony do you prefer?

I really have NO idea.SOmetimes one then the other.I went years without EVER talking about the band to ANYONE who had ANY idea about the band.I knew about the covers being different but loved the MUSIC that much i NEVER even hated a single track.Maybe CONFUSION bugged me a LITTLE.To have all this discussed NOW 20 odd years later is somewhat VERY weird.I didn't even think i would still be ALIVE.NOOL has made my love of the group so much more ENJOYABLE.To know there are other NUT(ters) about is bloody GREAT.Will miss you lot next week.But will see you ALL soon. NU ORDAH Rocket Mick

ben JAMJAM23 wrote: OK you are going on about ceremony 7 and 12 being different but I have two versions of the 12 a green sleeve and a blue and white are these different mixes? Also which version of perfect kiss is it? I have two 7" versions one is a FBN123/7 in a picture sleeve with a normalish short version and the uk 7" FAC123/7 with a weird ivan ivan edit c/w a weird perfect pitt (not sure if that was a promo though).

Although there are 2 covers some of the GREEN ones also got put in the BLUE and WHITE ones.You can tell if they are different from the GROOVES length and i think the ENGINEER's markings.At this moment(on the beer) i cannot tell you which is which.But i know the EXPERTS here will put me right.As for the PERFECT KISS i have about six 7 inch singles in different covers so SHOULD be able to help you.But AGAIN..........beer and DIFFERENT versions do NOT mix.Anyway WELCOME here. Rocket Mick

Shug wrote: "Watching forever" is the groove notation on the 7"

on the 12" there are 2

"Watching Love Grow Forever" & "This Is Why Events Unnerve Me"

Watching Love Grow Forever is the original. If you listen carefully enough you can hear a faint kind of false start before it kicks in on the original.

I hope that's cleared it up - cos I have 3 Ceremony 12"s (2 B&W and a Green Cover) and I've just played them all with no mercy shown.

Obsessed? Aiiiii :D

Well done SHUGZV and on a school night too!Doesn't seem GREAT to play the 12 inch records though.Proper music.....none on this PEAPODS stuff.Can you send me back my 78's of SCOTLAND's GREATEST HITS please?

Cheers, I have everything on factory commercialy released on 7 12 (and cd), Just a bit rubbish at spotting subtle differences. I also get confused about what was released and what was different eg run2 on 7 and thieves on 7 I know were not commercial releases.

I don't have the 7" of perfect kiss to hand but this ivan ivan edit was different to anything I have elsewhere and with it being in a plain black sleeve I presumed it might have been a promo especialy as it was a butchered to funk(sic).

The curiosity with the ceremony thing and the new "singles" album is what originally drew me to new order was that the 12" was the single and all the shorter formats were bastard offspring that had to be done to "nearly conform".

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: (or PHAT, to the younger bredren)

that word is so 2003, dude.

AgentWood wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: (or PHAT, to the younger bredren)

that word is so 2003, dude.

What`s replaced it these days then?

Johnny wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: (or PHAT, to the younger bredren)

that word is so 2003, dude.

What`s replaced it these days then?

off da chain.

AgentWood wrote:

Johnny wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: (or PHAT, to the younger bredren)

that word is so 2003, dude.

What`s replaced it these days then?

off da chain.

LmFAO This thread is the most fun I've had all day! That, or my unsuccessful walk to Safeway for rubbers only to find they're sold out. I mean wtf.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote:

DC wrote: I marginally prefer the 7" original - more power blah, blah, as everyone has said. The rerecording is still fantastic though, lots of space in the production, maybe a touch too much? Everything seems a little bit further away. My favourite version is Blackpool 1980, with Steve on vocals. Wonderful!

Despite being an old fart who was there at the time, I do not share the reverence for the orig Temptation over the 87 version. The orig is a bit clanky for me - there are moments when everything feels too tinny. But you know, both are great really, so what does it matter?

Hey Biz, you post on ILM, don't you?

yes, i post at ILM. What's your user name there?

Your post illustrates my feeling about authenticity and an unspoken 'rule' amongst fans of most bands; ie. the closest performance to the original performance is almost always touted as being the best. You state the Blackpool 80 version with Steve on vocals is your 'favorite'. While i find that version intersting, i also find it impossible to come back to because of it's awful sound quality. I cannot have a 'favorite' version of a song that i can't listen to on a regular basis. 10 times out of 10, i'll put the 7" Ceremony on a mix, because i find it the most interesting mix of the track.

Good point about Temptation. I actually haven't played the 87 version for ages. I love the rawness of the 82 7/12" versions and also love the short and sweet 98 rerecording. The point is, i really haven't heard a version of Temptation done by New Order that i dislike. I can't say the 87 mix is awful and ruins that track, even if i prefer the other mixes. It simply isn't true. I think folks are being dishonest when they say New Order stripped the track of it's feeling in 87.

Biz - I'm Dr. C on ILM.

I should have said that Blackpool 80 was my favourite live version of Ceremony, not fave version per se. I love Steve's vox, the Joy-Div style attack of Barney's guitar and I prefer Hooky's slightly cleaner tone that he used to use on earlier live versions. It probably is closer to the 7" in sound. Interesting that they introduce it as 'our new single' when they hadn't even settled on a singer yet.

I don't disagree with yout thoughts on authenticism.

AgentWood wrote:

Johnny wrote:

AgentWood wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: (or PHAT, to the younger bredren)

that word is so 2003, dude.

What`s replaced it these days then?

off da chain.

Off The Hook gets used over here.So Hookys bass is off the Hook.

Always loved the original Ceremony, on 12" on a decent system it is untouchable. The original just seems bigger, has more space and gravitas about it than the re-recorded one which sounds hollow. Bernard's vocals on the original also seem to have that ethereal quality which is absent on the later version. Something about the original which is just undefinable, its Joy Division but not as we know it - a truly cathartic moment for the band.

Very well summarised

Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote:

That, or my unsuccessful walk to Safeway for rubbers only to find they're sold out. I mean wtf.

Us goths don't have sex.

The best version of Ceremony is Joy Division's in Birmingham 2/5/80, even if we only get half of it from the soundboard. Very powerful. I've never considered any version of Ceremony to be definitive because its a song which is special in every form, particularly live as opposed to on record. It seemed to lose a bit of its edge in the late 80s when they played it live, although I suppose it didn't feel as such for those who saw them. One of my favourite songs of all time without a doubt.

The original kicks ass! The re-recording sucks ass!

The original sounds too demoey to me, the newer one is far more pure and beautiful. Compare the bass during the 'watching forever' part and its far better on the newer one

Christopher Owens wrote:

Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote:

That, or my unsuccessful walk to Safeway for rubbers only to find they're sold out. I mean wtf.

Us goths don't have sex.

Seriously!? Boy is my face red now.

Chris Nash wrote:

Oh yes, Goths DO have sex (at least the Goth girls when they meet New Order fans in pubs...)

Just lucky I guess... :p

We're too busy moping about to notice the opposite sex.

As for you, Mr. Nash, stop showing off!

Christopher Owens wrote:

Chris Nash wrote:

Oh yes, Goths DO have sex (at least the Goth girls when they meet New Order fans in pubs...)

Just lucky I guess... :p

We're too busy moping about to notice the opposite sex.

As for you, Mr. Nash, stop showing off!

I don't mope... haha

What about that bird out of Sisters of Mercy. And I don't mean Eldritch........

:bag:

The spirit of the Goth

Deadbeat wrote: What about that bird out of Sisters of Mercy. And I don't mean Eldritch........

:bag:

You mean Patricia Morrison.

Al Jarvis wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: ok. now we're getting somewhere.

Indeed, we probably are. I hear a bassline which makes me want to bounce off walls. You hear something you need to sit down and analyse. Therein probably lies the principal difference between US and UK fanbases, and certainly explains the atmosphere (or lack of) generated at gigs across our two shores.

no offense, but, oh, what a load of crap. it's absolutely baseless. i saw arcade fire here and thought the floor was going to fall through because of all the hopping about. i saw clap your hands say yeah and stood there like a sullen indie kid. i saw shellac and got beat up by a girl (whom i beat right back). it all depends on the gig.
people on both sides of the ocean listen to music analytically. people on both sides jump around at gigs. if new order played a decent venue (one without "auditorium" after and some corporate logo before) then there would be sweat dripping off the ceiling. are all english reserved? of course not. it's a stereotype and we all know it. what you've got to say is just ridiculous. i can't believe that you would believe that. it's just so ignorant. what next?

sorry... this thread seems to be making me very angry. or something. i'm a bit on edge. my point still stands, but i wish i had put it another way, but i'm too lazy to edit.