I was at the GMEX gig. The night before I stayed at the nearby YMCA. There were loads of Smiths and New Order fans staying there and conversations did bring up the headlining question. My take on it was that the gig was a celebration of '10 years since punk began', and because New Order had been around longer than The Smiths, they would close the show. The Smiths were, at that moment in time, bringing out some great stuff. I think 'The Queen Is Dead' had recently come out, while New Order were going through something of a 'dip in form', IMO. My memories of the event include listening to the soundcheck from outside the venue the evening before. Hooky`s bassline to 'BLT' sent shivers down my spine as we listened outside in the warm evening sun. The Fall done a good show aswell, I thought they were at their best in the mid eighties. Ian Bunnyman singing 'Ceremony' was a nice touch, but I think he struggled with it a bit.
New Order / The Smiths rivalry
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johnny james wrote: I'm fairly sure that at Sheffield and Liverpool New Order were on first just because their gear needed to be left in place rather than moved about after soundcheck.
Yes mate that could be a fair point...I remember getting into Royal Court quite early and New Order were still soundchecking !!
The same may have happened at Sheffield...the City Hall was packed to the rafters and after New Order's set finished @ about 9pm the place emptied in fear of having to listen to ABC..The only saving grace was that Cabaret Voltaire were playing the Leadmill the same night.!!
Weren't Stephen Morris and Peter Hook or Morris and Sumner quoted at an airport dissing Moz because they thought he was a prima donna!! I think that happened in 2001.
I like New Order, The Smiths, The Cure, Depeche Mode, and U2. I also love PIL.
Whats a Perry boy?
I wear polo shirts and adidas tennis shoes sometimes. Black shirt, black pants, white shoes. But I also like to weaer black suits.
Ive got swoopy bangs, but my hair is short on the back and sides.
Im an American.
Zachery Starkey wrote: I like New Order, The Smiths, The Cure, Depeche Mode, and U2. I also love PIL.
But do you like Killing Joke, more importantly?
I do like Killing Joke!
NIN, Bauhaus, and The Sisters of Mercy as well.
I also like Al Green, Marvin Gaye, Parliament Funkadelic, the Supremes, the Sex Pistols, the Talkign Heads, Ladytron, Goldfrapp, Public Enemy, and Jay Z.
I don't remember any rivalry between N.O and the Smiths,but i do recall Bernard constantly refering to Morrissey as Dorrissey in one or two interveiws.I think Marr might have put him up to it.
Christopher Owens wrote:
Zachery Starkey wrote: Jay Z.
He is the Frank Sinatra of Hip Hop!
And the synth work and production on Can I Get A
Zachery Starkey wrote: I do like Killing Joke!
NIN, Bauhaus, and The Sisters of Mercy as well.
I also like Al Green, Marvin Gaye, Parliament Funkadelic, the Supremes, the Sex Pistols, the Talkign Heads, Ladytron, Goldfrapp, Public Enemy, and Jay Z.
Not sure about Al Green but everyone else...brilliant! Good range.
I think the NO/Smiths rivalry is a fan based thing. It's true that when I was younger I'd put NO up there with the musical greats and everyone else (smiths, cure etc.) as fashion more than music. I'm a bit more open minded now...but not by much.
In the end it didn't matter as they were all played in the clubs and they were all lumped together by the big haired rocker bands.
ally wrote:
Blunderer wrote: Not many UK New Order fans followed Depeche Mode.
No offence, but how could you possibly know this for sure?
Shouldn't that be "not many UK New Order fans that I met followed Depeche Mode"?
But this thread's been full of generalisations anyway so why stop now. It must've been really dull being a music fan in the 80s having to conform to all these shitey stereotypes eh?
"I can't like that record, it's too uncool to darken my turntable"
Fcuking boring attitude.
I meant to post a few months ago about a gig review in one of the crappy free London papers (London Lite maybe) in which their 'music critic' not only referred to Depeche Mode in the same sentence as New Order but described them (DM) as 'a Manchester band'.
Doctor Clayhead wrote: In this month's "Uncut" there's a piece with Johnny Marr & Barney quasi-promoting their so-called "Best Of...".
Barney says something nice about Moz, which I assume is tongue-in-cheek given that Morrissey's general take on our Bernard was "that fucking talentless cunting little Salford oik what stole my Johnny".
I think he was referring to Matt Johnson then... 
MONTY The Merciless wrote: I was at the Festival Of The Tenth Summer,I never assumed any rivalry,because to be honest,even to this very day,Manc artists seem to club together...hmm bar Mozzer and Mike Joyce
But I did read something recently,might have been a Hooky interview.When Mozzer was interviewed on the Tube Hacienda special,he said JD were overrated,and Rob Gretton stepped in and said"You sing about doing yerself in,Ian had the fcuking guts to do it" to which MOZZER stormed off.Bit of Atmosphere,bit of Atmosphere...
Which proves Gretton was always the brain behind it all.... 
ally wrote: Hooky thinks Morrissey's a twat because Mozzah has - on occasion - made some ill-judged comments about Joy Division and Hooky's obviously quite protective of their legacy, and so he should be. On the other hand I did read Hooky praising Morrissey's second last album You Are The Quarry at the time as being a fantastic record. He's obviously big enough to put aside his personal dislike and see a good set of tunes for what they are so good on 'im
Morrissey has also done something similar in the past by admitting New Order's music isn't up his street but he can appreciate how important they were for Manchester.
Rob Gretton was apparently a big fan of The Smiths. I definitely read somewhere that he used to "go around Manchester telling anyone who would listen The Smiths would be the next big thing" possibly in Mick Middles's book.
I have a bad feeling this thread is going to descend into slagging off The Smiths or Morrissey when there are far more worthy targets out there.
Bringing shitey football rivalry-type themes into music is fucking pointless.
Agree. Don't forget it was because of Gretton though that The Smiths didn't sign to Factory. He was the one who listened to those first Troy Tate sessions and dismissed them as "shit". It was after that that Johnny made a few comments about Factory being passee, but his collaboration with Barney alone probably kills any suspicion of rivalry surely.
As for slagging off Moz, well, what can you do? The guy's a genious, granted, but also a cunt.
Midnight Blue wrote: For the MILLIONTH TIME
In North America, New Order, The Smiths/Moz, The Cure and Depeche Mode had the same fan base
I'd have thought this was a given by now. And not only there, but anywhere outside the UK.
Zachery Starkey wrote: I like New Order, The Smiths, The Cure, Depeche Mode, and U2. I also love PIL.
Whats a Perry boy?
I wear polo shirts and adidas tennis shoes sometimes. Black shirt, black pants, white shoes. But I also like to weaer black suits.
Ive got swoopy bangs, but my hair is short on the back and sides.
Im an American.
Also you do realise the danger of sporting such a monicker, right? Are you for real like Jack?
Also, he'd fit right in really nicely should there ever be a Smiths reunion sens Mike Joyce, wouldn't you say?
fac443 wrote:
Zachery Starkey wrote: I like New Order, The Smiths, The Cure, Depeche Mode, and U2. I also love PIL.
Whats a Perry boy?
I wear polo shirts and adidas tennis shoes sometimes. Black shirt, black pants, white shoes. But I also like to weaer black suits.
Ive got swoopy bangs, but my hair is short on the back and sides.
Im an American.
Also you do realise the danger of sporting such a monicker, right? Are you for real like Jack?
My birthname, my real name, is indeed Zachery Allan Starkey.
its a coincidence that I have the same name as Ringo's kid.
At any rate, if you google Zak Starkey, youll get stuff on the drummer...
If you google Zachery Allan Starkey, you will get a ton of stuff on me.
having grown up in salford, i saw no rivally amongst my friends. we loved jd/no. we loved the smiths as well. its just our passions were more with the real deal. i enjoyed seeing the smiths at the festival of the 10th. i have no smiths on cd, but probably should have the first album. i guess that says it for me
