NO or JD?

this has been done before, but......

After listening to JD and NO in a mixed random mode, I realized how amazing it is that fans of JD love NO (and visa versa). Other than Hooky's bass lines, they are polar opposites.

JD is dark and sullen, as NO is happy and dancy JD has amazing lyrics; NO has lyrics that are JD was about creating music; NO was in creating the Hacienda

But seriously I find it amazing that listeners love both bands equally.

So where do you stand?

Both.

Songs written by both bands feel like they've come from the heavens.

New Order especially when they don't play Joy Division songs live :D

I was a Joy Division fan first and foremost. Then New Order came along, and to all intents and purposes were a different and separate band, playing different music. While it's true that I was automatically a fan because they'd been Joy Division, it helped that I liked the music they played.

I've always wished that they would keep the JD live stuff to a minimum, around the mid 80s you occasionally got LWTUA or Atmosphere as a treat, but since 98 it has been several songs every gig, and they lessen the NO live experience for me, as much as I love the original songs they ain't right the way NO do them.

My iPod contains nothing but JD and NO at the moment (that isn't always the case!) as I am learning guitar parts and timings etc on several songs for Digital to start playing. I genuinely have no preference as to what comes on, nothing gets skipped. For example, the walk from Charing Cross to Lambeth Bridge this morning heard Weirdo, Digital, LWTUA, Every Little Counts, New Dawn Fades and Transmission had just started when I walked in the office. Another day it might be most of Get Ready or WFTSC, it makes no difference to me.

I live NO.But JD every time.

I'm an original JD fan as well, and have grown to love New Order just as much. The main difference for me being that I couldn't listen to JD every day, but NO gets played all the time. More diverse material, and definitely more cheerful. If pushed to make a choice it would have to be NO, but in case of a fire I'll just run!

joy division.

day in day out.

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote: I'd chuck the JD stuff into the fire...

still remember how pissed off I was at Wembley when the boys trotted out all those JD songs at the beginning...I thought to myself...If I've come all the way to London for a fucking Joy Division set, I'll do my fucking head in...

I think that was excellent actually. Over and done with early on

Geri wrote:

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote: I'd chuck the JD stuff into the fire...

still remember how pissed off I was at Wembley when the boys trotted out all those JD songs at the beginning...I thought to myself...If I've come all the way to London for a fucking Joy Division set, I'll do my fucking head in...

I think that was excellent actually. Over and done with early on

IMO the Wembley gig was excellent - a pretty good set/performance all round. Cheers!

Geri wrote:

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote: I'd chuck the JD stuff into the fire...

still remember how pissed off I was at Wembley when the boys trotted out all those JD songs at the beginning...I thought to myself...If I've come all the way to London for a fucking Joy Division set, I'll do my fucking head in...

I think that was excellent actually. Over and done with early on

That's 20 minutes of my life lost. I'm not a JD fan; they’re alright in some kinda dark and despairing way but no thanks it’s not exactly my cuppa. I’ve never cared for Ian Curtis much either. Hero my arse. A right twat if you ask me. Anyone who commits suicide is a coward. End of. There's my vote for WHOOPS and COME ONs in LWTUA

Where's the option for calling out the fire brigade

I don't own any vinyl... but I definitely prefer NO over JD probably because I found/rediscovered NO via Electronic.... And No I don't like the pet shop boys

NObabe wrote:

Anyone who commits suicide is a coward. End of.

I disagree strongly, one of the bravest people I knew committed suicide. R.I.P.

They both suck, just waste my life away on NOOL for complete bollocks

I'd chuck the JD stuff into the fire...

still remember how pissed off I was at Wembley when the boys trotted out all those JD songs at the beginning...I thought to myself...If I've come all the way to London for a fucking Joy Division set, I'll do my fucking head in...

I thought that was just me!

I've never been so pleased to hear WFTSC

Have gone for N.O. ,purely on the weight of material,but it's a fookin' hard choice,&,quite frankly,not a position I ever want to be in

Anyway,I'd just buy it again,or wait for the remasters to come out,problem solved:D

marcus mee wrote:

I'd chuck the JD stuff into the fire...

still remember how pissed off I was at Wembley when the boys trotted out all those JD songs at the beginning...I thought to myself...If I've come all the way to London for a fucking Joy Division set, I'll do my fucking head in...

I thought that was just me!

I've never been so pleased to hear WFTSC

me too

Geri wrote: I'm an original JD fan as well, and have grown to love New Order just as much. The main difference for me being that I couldn't listen to JD every day, but NO gets played all the time. More diverse material, and definitely more cheerful. If pushed to make a choice it would have to be NO, but in case of a fire I'll just run!

You're post hits the nail on the head for me. My personal preference is NO and after seeing/hearing True Faith in '87 and being totally blown away by what they were doing, the Dance music they were influencing and wanting to know as much about them as I could. However I also like JD and I appreciate the differences between JD's post-punk rock orientated past just as much as the electronic/Dance music influences which typified much of what NO has done from Temptation onwards. It also depends what mood you're in as well - if you're feeling upbeat and up for a party then you'd warm more to NO's dancier tunes but if you're feeling more reflective and in more of a rockier mood then JD ticks the boxes. Also NO didn't leave JD's rock/post punk roots entirely and there are traces of the JD sound present in their more rocker tracks. Overall I'd consider Atmosphere, She's Lost Control, Transmission, LWTUA, Day Of The Lords, Insight, Dead Souls, Digital etc. just as good as TPK, True Faith, Blue Monday, Confusion, Thieves Like Us, BLT, State Of The Nation, Regret, Ceremony, Fine Time, Temptation, Crystal, WFTSC, Guilt Is A Useless Emotion, Krafty, Turn etc. in the final analysis! Cheers!

I would try and get the New Order stuff over the Joy Division. The actual order would be my two dogs, my cat; my computer and then the New Order CD's.

Psy

I'm glad to see my team are winning.

How come there's no choice here for U2?

I know I'm taking bait when I see a phrase like "JD was about creating music; NO was in [sic] creating the Hacienda". But anyway.

I love JD but it's got to be NO. I think the OP's characterization of NO as insubstantial dance band versus quite misses the point. JD's approach was to make something beautiful from the darkness (and they do). NO (well, pre-1990) instead combine multiple feelings and sensations, pleasurable and painful, into a single song, which is what makes their music so lasting and fascinating to me.

A song like The Perfect Kiss (12" version), if you really listen to it, isn't made by a band that doesn't care about "creating music". On the surface, sure, it's dancey, but it's got incredible depth of feeling in both the lyrics and the music (which is all the more apparent in the video). It's a sad melody with dark, oblique, lyrics married to an insistent beat and excting, pleasurable cadences. It's hard for me to explain, but that to me is the genius of New Order, the presence of the joy and sadness and longing and fulfillment embedded in the music. I realize not everyone's ears are going to be attuned to it, but there's real emotional richness there.

As a lyricist, I think Ian's lyrics are very poetic, but I think that Barney's are, in their own way, equally thoughtful, at least through True Faith. (Technique has its moments too, but it is inconsistent -- after that, the writing became much more obvious and literal, as well as grammatically awkward -- it's impossible to imagine "Turn My Way" or "Hey Now What You Doing" coming from 80's New Order.)

I think NO's lyrics are in some ways more abstract than JD's, but rather than that making them meaningless, to me that makes them powerful -- I can't always get words around what he's singing about, but I can feel it. To me, that's real art. (My girlfriend will occasionally ask me "what's this song about"? And I always shrug and say "I dunno, but I can feel what it's about."

Anyway, they're two different bands, really; it's not hard for me to imagine a Joy Division fan liking New Order any more than it is for me to imagine them liking some other band. There doesn't have to be an implicit comparison of the two.

Shellshocker wrote: How come there's no choice here for U2?

Bad Shellshocker; Bad

Geri wrote: I'm an original JD fan as well, and have grown to love New Order just as much. The main difference for me being that I couldn't listen to JD every day, but NO gets played all the time. More diverse material, and definitely more cheerful. If pushed to make a choice it would have to be NO, but in case of a fire I'll just run!

Same here :)

Ivan X wrote: NO (well, pre-1990) instead combine multiple feelings and sensations, pleasurable and painful, into a single song, which is what makes their music so lasting and fascinating to me.

I think NO's lyrics are in some ways more abstract than JD's, but rather than that making them meaningless, to me that makes them powerful -- I can't always get words around what he's singing about, but I can feel it. To me, that's real art. (My girlfriend will occasionally ask me "what's this song about"? And I always shrug and say "I dunno, but I can feel what it's about."

Good call.

i grew up on joy division and the transition into new order stuff happened because of the obvious. They were also the times we lived. not a retrospective vinyl collection. late 70s in manchester were bleak and then better things happened. jd no straddled that and showed a way. no choosing between.

new order everytime for me,i don't like joy division in the slightest and believe me i've tried and tried with their albums!i hate it at gigs when they play jd stuff,it seems to spoil the flow and bring people(admittedly not everyone) down

I'm straddling the fence here.

I'd risk every limb for BOTH. End of.

They're the same band though, they've just changed as they've got older. It's not like they did New Dawn Fades one day and bloody Jetstream the next is it? It's been a gradual shift through the years. People stereotype JD as doom and gloom and NO as disco froth but you can hear it's the same band that did LWTUA and Temptation, Atmosphere and Elegia, Insight and Leave Me Alone, Decades and Your Silent Face and so on.

I personally prefer the earlier stuff (JD & NO pre-85) as I think that up until 85 they were still making music directly from the heart and soul. After that, they became more 'professional' and the songs started to feel a little bit hollow.