How Good A Guitarist Is Barney?

It's a good question. I agree that he stopped caring about his guitar playing around 1983 or so and hasn't really progressed since then. Maybe he's even regressed.

Technically he was never very advanced, just concentrating on basic chords with the odd pentatonic stooges-like solo, but I think his sound in JD was really very good, especially live. As the sole guitar player in a 4-piece, without keybds or a second guitar to take some of the strain, he does a damn fine job of creating a wall of sound. But there's some subtlety in there too, helping to build tension (e.g Dead Souls intro, also New Dawn Fades). His technique is pretty rudimentary and I think his 'strumming from the elbow with a rigid wrist' technique may have held him back from getting better. The Shergold Masquerader makes an intersting sound - a bit more toppy than the SG, and nice complex harmonics too. That adds some unique flavour to his sound. Does anyone know when he switched from the Shergold to SG in Joy Div? I seem to remember him using the Masquerader into 1980, but I can't be sure.

In New Order his role is different and there's obviously less need for a big guitar sound amidst the electronics. He still does a good job on the live versions of the Movement material though.

There were some very good comments about the post-punk ethos of instrumental technique being unneccessary. It's true that many people thought that, but still the best groups had some unbelievable musicians (e.g. all of Magazine, McGeogh and Budgie in the Banshees) who found new textures rather than sheer virtuosity.

My personal three favorites are Alex Lifeson, Devin Townsend and, yes, Bernard Sumner. Everyone always looks at me cockeyed when I say Bernard after those two. But like someone said, solos are awesome displays of talent, but it's more about how well it suits the rest of the music. My personal favorite riff of Barney's is on Shadowplay. It's so fun to play, and always makes me smile because it's so perfect. Can you picture a mad Iron Maiden-style solo in the middle of Disorder or She's Lost Control or Your Silent Face or Twisted Tenderness? Every time he plays his guitar, it's perfect for the song he's playing to.

That's pretty much all I need to say really.

yeah id say barney is a good guitarist,but what sets him apart from other axe heroes is ther fact that even in joy division his interest in other musical instruments and sound meant that the guitar had become just another weapon in his arsenal. which is good as its all about the music to him and not the how good am i thing. the likes of santana,satriani ect would destroy barney technically on the guitar cos they are extreme examples of what they do and are great in their own field. barney has sculpted soundscapes in my opinion and used several instruments in doing so and there lies his greatness and talent. now heres an example for all u anoraks. when the jd substance cd came out and atmosphere was re-released,tony wilson had another one of his shows on the box and showed the video ect. the next guest on was some famous classicall composer, i forget who ,an old guy is all i remember. when the video ended and wilson started to introduce the composer,the composer"who just couldnt help himself" butted in and drew wilsons attention to the song he just played. and refered to the closing bars of atmosphere,the ones with the guitar crechendos at the end. which i consider to be one of the greatest peices of music every written . as he was sat at the piano he played how he said it should have been as it was off key? wilson gave a wry smile and said that he would make sure that the person responsible was notified lol. the guy just didnt get it,but thats music for you isnt it.

I'm addicted to Guitar Hero, and I've heard people on this interweb talk about all these "great" metal/alt-rock guitarists and how they can 5 star an expert song their first, but I'm sure if they put "Age of Consent" or "Love Vigilantes" on a new Guitar Hero game, they would shit themselves. And I would be greatful to beat it on Medium.

LONG. LIVE. BARNEY.

I place Barney up there with two other extremely emotive, creative and talented guitarists who are in no way "technical" geniuses:

Jeff Tweedy (Wilco) Peter Buck (R.E.M.)

Both these guys are regarded amongst the best in their genre, and both (Tweedy and Buck) would be the first to tell you they're shite guitarists. Buck even has said many times he's the least talented person in R.E.M.... Tweedy surrounds himself with guitar virtuosos to fleshen the guitar attack, but Tweedy himself has come up with some absolutely phenomenal songs that if not for the evocative, emotive guitar lines he plays wouldn't be half the songs they are.

None of these guys would be featured in Guitar Player for their mad technical skillz. But for every Satriani, Clapton, et al I'll take a thousand Bucks/Tweedys/Sumners.

drew

The Buck comparison is interesting. Obv a completely different style, but someone who also does a really good job within his limitations. He always has a solid sound too - nice twangy Rickenbackers and Teles. Rather like Hooky's role, REM have a bass player who often plays melody lines, which gives them more depth, and covers up some of PB's limitations. He's not *that* limited though - a pretty decent all-round guitarist.

The current lead guitarist in Wilco is fantastic - Nels Cline. Amazing sound (Fender Jazzmaster), great chops, but not afraid to stay in teh background if the song demands it.

Regret and crystal are fattened out to the point that Barney is just doing the actions in later gigs.

Isn't it a bit of a mare to sing and play at the same time though?

I can do neither.

It's a rare rhythm guitarist that sings as well, isn't it?

Joe Strummer is the obvious exception. Anyone else?

David Byrne. Byrne is actually an amazing guitarist..really good at doing funky rythm parts.

I love Barney's guitar playing. I love all of the funky Niles Rodgers type guitar parts that he played on a lot of older New Order songs. I wish he would do that more on newer songs. I really like the funky guitar part he played in The Perfect Kiss on the 2006 tour.

Did Barney play the funky "wah wah" guitar part on the Mac Quayle version of Guilt Is a Useless Emotion?

perhaps we should also ask...

How good of a keyboardist is Barney?

I know Barney wrote a lot of the synth parts on New Order songs...

And I am pretty sure that Barney wrote and played 90 percent of the keyboard parts on the WFTSC album.

BIGINOIL wrote: Regret and crystal are fattened out to the point that Barney is just doing the actions in later gigs.

Isn't it a bit of a mare to sing and play at the same time though?

I can do neither.

It's a rare rhythm guitarist that sings as well, isn't it?

Joe Strummer is the obvious exception. Anyone else?

It's not that difficult to do. The likes of James Dean Bradfield make lead guitar and vocals look ridiculously easy, even Ian McCulloch managed a mean rhythm guitar and vocal at times. If I can do it, it can't be hard!

DC wrote: The Buck comparison is interesting. Obv a completely different style, but someone who also does a really good job within his limitations. He always has a solid sound too - nice twangy Rickenbackers and Teles.

The current lead guitarist in Wilco is fantastic - Nels Cline. Amazing sound (Fender Jazzmaster), great chops, but not afraid to stay in teh background if the song demands it.

Different style again but can't resist. Some great escapes heard through the 1950s or so Blues.

Find so much is a sound is the Messenger not the Tune. Completely unique and even w/ the 'Standards of Jazz and Blues you know by first Bar who's who. W/ out generalizing that it was his job. B Sumner sets that extra textured line that stands out. Few lines in Procession. Interestin contrast perceived skill to emphasis in the where it is JD few yrs. to NOs whole time.

oldmonkey wrote:

BIGINOIL wrote: Regret and crystal are fattened out to the point that Barney is just doing the actions in later gigs.

Isn't it a bit of a mare to sing and play at the same time though?

I can do neither.

It's a rare rhythm guitarist that sings as well, isn't it?

Joe Strummer is the obvious exception. Anyone else?

It's not that difficult to do. The likes of James Dean Bradfield make lead guitar and vocals look ridiculously easy, even Ian McCulloch managed a mean rhythm guitar and vocal at times. If I can do it, it can't be hard!

It's not rare : it's the norm in 4-piece line-ups with 2 x guitar/bass/drums or guitar/bass/keys/drums. Or 3-pieces where the guitarist plays rhythm/lead. To add to Tim's examples :

Paul Weller in the Jam, Bob Mould (Husker Du), Metallica, Tom Verlaine (Television), Matt Bellamy (Muse), Jimi Hendrix, Gaz Coombes (Supergrass), modern shite like Editors/Razorlight.

It's not too hard to do with practice - some songs are very easy, some require a LOT of practice to uncouple the vocal rhythm from the guitar rhythm. There are tricks you can learn to make it easier.

There are tricks you can learn to make it easier.

Such as? Any pointers? Would be much appreciated, thanks?

BIGINOIL wrote: Regret and crystal are fattened out to the point that Barney is just doing the actions in later gigs.

Isn't it a bit of a mare to sing and play at the same time though?

I can do neither.

It's a rare rhythm guitarist that sings as well, isn't it?

Joe Strummer is the obvious exception. Anyone else?

james hetfield

don't knock it just cos it's metallica

some of the stuff he plays is incredibly intricate and complex, and he still manages to sing completely different rythms to the guitar lines

even plays the odd solo too

he's quality

Hetfield is indeed rather good. The guy Cobain is quite a good example of singer/guitarist as well I suppose!

oldmonkey wrote: Hetfield is indeed rather good. The guy Cobain is quite a good example of singer/guitarist as well I suppose!

not a fan of nirvana

eddie vedder's quite tasty on guitar these days though

vedder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cobain

I'll take eddie Vedder over Kurt Cobain any day of the week. I am not a huge fan...but Pearl Jams first album has some amazing songs on it...better than anything Nirvana ever did.

I am not into Metallica....but James Hetfield is a pretty good guitarist.

Back to the subject at hand though...

I really enjoy Barney's guitar on:

EGG Angel Dust True Faith State of the Nation Everyone Everywhere the live version of Subculture Age of Consent

And various others.

can he play with a blind fold on?

ay ay?? can he??

james hetfield

don't knock it just cos it's metallica

some of the stuff he plays is incredibly intricate and complex, and he still manages to sing completely different rythms to the guitar lines

even plays the odd solo too

he's quality

Hetfield is an awesome rhythm guitarist, techinically the best in rock by a mile and a great live performer

I don´t know whether he is good or not, but he did great in NO/JD, and that is enough for me to think he is very good!

Matter of fact, why do I want him to be as Van Halen or Slash if the music he plays does not require to be like that???

Distinctive but not technically good. Like poo.

I dont think he was extraordinary, likewise with the rest of the band. However put them together and they complimented each other perfectly. Although not being able to play any kind of instrument personally i could be way off the mark.

Whatever he does, they do, it usually sounds good to me so thats good enough.

BIGINOIL wrote: Regret and crystal are fattened out to the point that Barney is just doing the actions in later gigs.

Isn't it a bit of a mare to sing and play at the same time though?

I can do neither.

It's a rare rhythm guitarist that sings as well, isn't it?

Joe Strummer is the obvious exception. Anyone else?

Rare? More like the exception. Bono, The Edge, Crowded House singer, Paul Weller, Pixies frontman, David Gohl, Kurt Cobain, Snow Patrol singer, Mark Knofler, Eric Clapton, John Lennon, Magic Numbers, James Dean Bradford, Billy Cougan, The Proclaimers, Noel Gallagher (probably even Liam Gallagher) can sing and play guitar simultaniously.

I think some folk are gifted enough to and some arent. Im rubbish at it I must confess.

Don't know if this's been mentioned before, but in 'An Ideal For Living' it says Barney was voted one of the best guitarists in some 1980 mag. But it was clearly a case of JD fans loving the songs rather than a technical comment, if you see what I mean.

Steve One wrote: I dont think he was extraordinary, likewise with the rest of the band. However put them together and they complimented each other perfectly. Although not being able to play any kind of instrument personally i could be way off the mark.

Whatever he does, they do, it usually sounds good to me so thats good enough.

I think I have to disagree with your statement "likewise with the rest of the band." Steve would rank higher than Barney on a ranking of their respective instruments, while Hooky is definitely extraordinary!

Indeed*!*