Here To Stay? — Forum Archive

21 Apr 2011, 15:50

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

johnny wrote:

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

johnny wrote: Here To Stay isn't a bad song. The trouble is it's not a good one either.

It's average, you mean to say!

:)

Which is the most damning verdict of all

But.....surely you must agree that since 2002, NO have been nothing else but 'average' at best.

Well yes of course. WFTSC (the song) and Turn excepted. And maybe some moments in Who's Joe and the bit in the radio edit of Krafty where the chiming keyboards and Hooky's bass compliment each other brilliantly. Brixton Academy gig Nov 10th 2005 was the best gig i saw them play in the noughties despite being, as i think you yourself described them By Eck, a flabby karaoke version of their better days. A mad, brilliant evening and Barney's parting quip "Joy Division New Order forever! Get that tattooed on yer arse!" Had me chuckling for weeks afterwards

21 Apr 2011, 17:45

I really would like to have myself believe that I could find some of the post-2000 stuff exciting and groundbreaking....but I really don't. Good though some of the Wet Freddie and even WFOZF tracks are, they're not of the same league as, say, the best of their Factory years like some of the songs on Technique or Low Life.

Crystal compares poorly with Regret from Republic even (but then quite a lot of their later singles do for that matter, which suggests that Regret is indeed imo the last GREAT NO single.)

I just get the feeling that, if songs like Bizarre Love Triangle, 1963, Perfect Kiss, or Thieves Like Us constitute what could be regarded as the Premier League of New Order songs, then stuff like Crystal, Turn My Way, Here To Stay, Close Range, Juggernaut [sic], Krafty, WFTSC, and Turn - good though they undoubtedly are - must surely make up the Championship runners up category, and garbage like Dracula's Castle and Jetstream the bottom six of the Blue Square Premier.... to coin a corny football metaphor. :lol:

:nod: :p

21 Apr 2011, 18:00

I'll agree that I've always found Here To Stay a bit average. Over the years it tends to be the stateside fans in particular on here who love it the most. I don't dislike it by any stretch but it sounded like after the guitar heavy Get Ready the band were trying too hard to sound like what they thought people wanted them to sound like I.e. KEYBOARDS.

They probably left it off Get Ready at the time because it didn't fit with the album as a whole; I've tried adding it in various custom album playlists but it tends to stick out like a sore thumb. It was definitely there on some early Get Ready promos in premix form however; I've got at least one.

The Chemicals produced it? If their name had not been on the CD single at the time I wouldn't have guessed their involvement as they didn't seem to add anything radical to the mix. The odd wonky synth sound perhaps? A bit of a wasted collaboration there really; they didn't even release their own extended remix although Felix Da Housecat's one is pretty good and hypnotic. Anyway and for me Out Of Control beats the shit out of HTS every time; 7 minutes and 20 seconds of sheer class. Bernard and The Chems blended perfectly.

As for "later" NO material, I did find WFTSC to be a bit of a damp squib to end things on. There are two or three bona fide classics (Who's Joe, WFTSC & Turn), some great melodies but unfortunately zero edge. At least Get Ready had some balls about it. I'm still holding out some hope that the WFTSC leftovers will have at least one or two killer tunes if they're ever released.

Not holding my breath, mind.

21 Apr 2011, 21:19

yep, us stateside fans, always loving the 'just average' new order crap. no taste whatsoever. :sleep:

apparently you have to give a shit about Willy and Kate, and drink tea on a daily basis, to appreciate quality music.

21 Apr 2011, 23:28

I don't like Here to Stay as much as True Faith, but I actually like it (I do not believe it's a perfect song or a masterpiece though). I'd honestly listen to Here to Stay than Jetstream though.

Of course, when I look at my Substance CD and look at how all of the singles were wonderful...I can see how compared to that it's an average quality New Order single.

22 Apr 2011, 01:03

Get Teddy had a few edgy moments but nothing like mid 80s NO. WFTSC didn't have any but the point of a song like Turn wasn't to be edgy. Yeah I agree with Ally - you wouldn't know HTS has anything to do with The Chems unless you, well, knew.

New Order lost that edgy,other worldly/ from another planet aura around ooooh... 86 . Maybe even 85 once Low Life had been released.Technique was grand but that from another planet glow around them had gone.

I'm off now to make a pot of tea and scan the newspapers for photos of Kate Middleton out shopping .

22 Apr 2011, 02:26

Just listened to Here To Stay for the first time in years,it seems to me that there is too much going on for such a short track but that it had great remix potential in the right hands, as for Player In The League,a well produced track with a strong melody let down by not enough effort being put into the lyrics,it could have been an almost great New Order song..

22 Apr 2011, 02:48

Thanks for all the links posted, i think thats the first time ive seen the pops performance, very underatted song.

A bright light on the horizon.

22 Apr 2011, 03:59

Tarbox23 wrote: yep, us stateside fans, always loving the 'just average' new order crap. no taste whatsoever.

apparently you have to give a shit about Willy and Kate, and drink tea on a daily basis, to appreciate quality music.

Nice stereotyping! I suspect the Royal Wedding is more about fleecing Yanks who've flown over here...

Anyway, HTS followed over a decade of very high quality Brit dance music, from the likes of the Chems, Orbital, Underworld etc, which many of us got into in New Order's absence. Barney almost admitted at the time of Get Ready that he couldn't do the technology thing any more, as it had advanced so much.

The disappointing thing for me was that the Chems contributed a pretty average backing track which i doubt would have made it onto any Chems album.

I think the electronic parts of Player in the League, with Barney experimenting are more interesting and creative than the Chems contribution to HTS....

22 Apr 2011, 04:20

Burt Burterson wrote:

Anyway, HTS followed over a decade of very high quality Brit dance music, from the likes of the Chems, Orbital, Underworld etc, which many of us got into in New Order's absence.

I agree. I'd also add to that list Future Sound Of London.

Burt Burterson wrote:

The disappointing thing for me was that the Chems contributed a pretty average backing track which i doubt would have made it onto any Chems album.

I agree.

Burt Burterson wrote:

I think the electronic parts of Player in the League, with Barney experimenting are more interesting and creative than the Chems contribution to HTS....

I agree. Player is much more interesting and creative.

22 Apr 2011, 04:25

PITL is dedicated to Manchester United fans, you bastards! :evil4:

22 Apr 2011, 05:00

amurr328 wrote: It was definitely there on some early Get Ready promos in premix form however; I've got at least one.

Anyway and for me Out Of Control beats the shit out of HTS every time; 7 minutes and 20 seconds of sheer class. Bernard and The Chems blended perfectly.

As for "later" NO material, I did find WFTSC to be a bit of a damp squib to end things on. There are two or three bona fide classics (Who's Joe, WFTSC & Turn), some great melodies but unfortunately zero edge. At least Get Ready had some balls about it. I'm still holding out some hope that the WFTSC leftovers will have at least one or two killer tunes if they're ever released.

Not holding my breath, mind.

Sorry to edit your post but these are the points that interested me! Yes in the build-up to GR a lot was made of the Corgan and Chems collaborations but clearly only the first made it. Incidentally I love the Corgan track - perfect melancholia along with Vicious Streak. And yes, out of control is far better - I've got the epic sasha remix somewhere which I think was only on 12" vinyl. Shame. Years ago a mag described Brotherhood as 'a son to Low-Life' and this is how I feel about many LPs: Sirens to GR, Raise the Pressure to Electronic, Monaco to Music4Pleasure, even Movement to Closer. The fact the last official release was 2 billiseconds of colourless Control soundtrack adds insult to injury. Personally I'd be surprised if the out-takes appear but I explained that on the relevant thread!

22 Apr 2011, 05:11

Tarbox23 wrote: yep, us stateside fans, always loving the 'just average' new order crap. no taste whatsoever.

apparently you have to give a shit about Willy and Kate, and drink tea on a daily basis, to appreciate quality music.

If somebody thinks Here To Stay is the dog's bollocks then that's perfectly valid. I merely noted that it seemed to be quite popular with our American brethren which it does seem to be if you read previous threads on the topic. Ironic as it was never released as a "proper" single in the US; only promo copies. It may have done quite well over there.

Bitchy, but have come to expect nothing less from you over the years, Tarbox :)

As for the royal wedding, Burt is indeed correct that a large majority of people wetting themselves over it will be American tourists with baseball caps and socks pulled up to their armpits asking at the top of their voice "how much mickey mouse money?" some shit wedding souvenir costs.

I'll be too busy drinking tea, personally.

Hope. This. Helps. :laugh:

22 Apr 2011, 19:44

I appreciate your kind words, and entirely agree with your post. Great points. Thanks - ;)

23 Apr 2011, 12:22

Good comment earlier about the best gigs of this millennium. I can't hold a candle to some of you lot in terms of attendance but seen a few. Brixton 2005 was brilliant but my personal favourite was probably Move in 2002. Also I thought Here To Stay wasn't on Get Ready because it wasn't completed in time. Memory a bit messed up though so probably totally wrong :smoking: