Bernard Sumner rules out a New Order reunion

Would somewhat make sense but how comes they only fell out in '06 and not a long time before? And why would the distribution of royalties suddenly change after all that time? I'm for one less and less inclined to give them anything anymore anyway .

Julijana Zitnjak wrote: Would somewhat make sense but how comes they only fell out in '06 and not a long time before?

Review of pension plans?

FDISK wrote:

Julijana Zitnjak wrote: Would somewhat make sense but how comes they only fell out in '06 and not a long time before?

Review of pension plans?

That occurred to me too, but really if you look at most of what they have done since Technique, Hooky's bass has seemed 'tacked on' in at least 50% of songs.

Even on the last record which is very guitar-based, he plays *nothing* on Jetstream except one just line at the very start, which is copied and pasted in the mix about 3 minutes later, and then that's it. I think it's very unlikely songs like "I Told You So" or "Guilt is a Useless Emotion" involved Hooky at all in the writing process. When they play True Faith live, hooky plays four or five notes, dances around for 30 seconds, plays the same four or five notes again.... Even as far back as Republic you can hear it happening on tracks like World etc.

I mean don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the guy, loved his recent Unknown Pleasures gigs, but I can see clearly where the argument Craig provided fits, or could fit. He seemed quite certain of it. Perhaps it was brewing for some time and came to a head during the 06 tour - who knows. Perhaps they spoke of new material in late 2006 to co-incide with Control and Bernard put his foot down on royalty percentage, and Hooky walked - again who knows?

BrianMcGee wrote: That occurred to me too, but really if you look at most of what they have done since Technique, Hooky's bass has seemed 'tacked on' in at least 50% of songs.

Even on the last record which is very guitar-based, he plays *nothing* on Jetstream except one just line at the very start, which is copied and pasted in the mix about 3 minutes later, and then that's it. I think it's very unlikely songs like "I Told You So" or "Guilt is a Useless Emotion" involved Hooky at all in the writing process. When they play True Faith live, hooky plays four or five notes, dances around for 30 seconds, plays the same four or five notes again.... Even as far back as Republic you can hear it happening on tracks like World etc.

I mean don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the guy, loved his recent Unknown Pleasures gigs, but I can see clearly where the argument Craig provided fits, or could fit. He seemed quite certain of it. Perhaps it was brewing for some time and came to a head during the 06 tour - who knows. Perhaps they spoke of new material in late 2006 to co-incide with Control and Bernard put his foot down on royalty percentage, and Hooky walked - again who knows?

The songs from WFTSC which don't feature Hooky are also coincidently the weakest songs on that album. I suspect Hooky was sidelined by the fact that Bernard and Steve were more into using the technology that was evolving from the mid 80's onwards,perhaps Hooky was happiest when the band went in to their rehearsal space and jammed as a band like in the Joy Division days,clearly that didn't happen on Republic but that doesn't mean that there were no Hooky basslines on Republic or that he didn't put work into it but possibly his input on most songs didn't make the final mix. My point being that his lessening involvement as time went on may not have been by choice on his part.

Think you've hit the nail on the head.

If Craig is right, I'm with Hooky on this one.

You're forgetting Phil, he has been an active writing part of NO for the last two albums.

And also that the lack of bass doesn't necessarily mean that Hooky didn't have more of an input into the songwriting...

(I dunno, but it is possible that he could have had a hand in writing other parts of songs?)

I'd always assumed it was an equal split, even though it is obvious than Barney was the main musical force and 'songwriter'. Hookys basslines were sounded a bit cliched and maybe he needed to be more adaptable musically speaking.

This is a situation that never should of happened. Any band should credit each track to who wrote the song. I've never believed in a blanket band credit as almost no songs are written like that. It's a disaster waiting to happen. Usually bands do this in their very early days and then change to individual credits as things get more serious.

Debbie Curtis always believed that Ian should of had 50% of the royalties as he wrote all the lyrics, but Ian was never bothered about it.

everyoneverywhere wrote:

BrianMcGee wrote: Craig Gill (Inspiral Carpets) was telling me last January that the split between Barney and Hooky is over percentage royalties where the name New Order is used.

Hooky wants an even split, Barney feels Hooky's contribution is far from equal to the other members of the group, as he (Barney) and Steve did most of the writing and recording for New Order. Hooky is livid about this, because (in Craig's words) "Hooky's gone copyright and money mad these days".

Another quote from Craig "Hooky will tell you he owns the copyright on yellow stripes"

*Insert incredibly easy swipe at hooky here references to his live work, Fac251 etc*

I don't think what hes asking is unreasonable though. Without him, New Order would simply not be New Order. His bass is an extremely important part of the sound.

I'm with Hooky on that one! Barney is the best musician of the band but hates playing live

johnny james wrote: You're forgetting Phil, he has been an active writing part of NO for the last two albums.

I always thought Phil came on the NO scene post Get Ready, and although involved in the touring, didnt feature in the recording of a NO until WFTSC. So does he only receive royalties post 2005 output?

I have no idea of the bands split concerning royalties. I mean Gillian effectly left the band in 2001, so does she only receive fees from previously recorded output? Does Hooky get paid per bassline? More subcontractor than Subculture.

It sounds a complete nightmare from an accounting point of view and its typically ironic of the band to squabble in later years over money when they happily squandared so much on Hacienda back in the day. Perhaps they realised (Too Late) that Every Penny Counts!

The division of royalties recorded for publishing is somewhat different to the reality for each track on each album. The royalty split is a business decision, rather than a reflection of what really happened each time.

Whatever the case, I just hope their current projects don't go wrong because of money/royalty issues...it's always a possibilty, but it'll be sad if that were to happen.

I might be talking utter bollocks here as I can't remember where I heard any of this information, but just here me out and let me know if any of this is complete rubbish!

As far as I am aware until the collapse of Factory and the Republic era all NO royalties were divided equally amongst the band (and maybe Rob Gretton?) and all the music was credited to just 'New Order'. I think Bernard called it 'a very communist system'. But then with the collapse of factory they had to renegotiate the royalties with London Records and I think Bernard and Steve pushed for greater royalties because they felt Hooky didn't contribute to the same extent that they did (witness all the rumours about Hooky sunbathing while Barney was in the studio with Stephen Hague recording Republic). I think they may have got their wish and this certainly would have created tensions in the studio and so perhaps might have contributed to the breakup in '93. However by '06 they'd been working together for 8 years again and been through a reunion, so whatever difficulties there had been over royalties would surely be long in the past, having worked together under the new arrangement for 13 years.

So, in short, whilst royalties may have been a contributing factor to the split in 1993, I don't think they were much of an issue by 2006. So something else was at work- perhaps just a complete breakdown in relations between Hooky and Bernard/Steve

Barney is paid per note sung in tune. That's why he lives in a luggage locker in Stockport station. Hooky is paid per killer riff, that's why his house has 7 bathrooms (including one with a cinema screen and self-serve ice cream bar). Gillian and Steve take no royalties, having made their money inventing the non-wearing gusset. Phil doesn't actually exist - he's just an amalgamation of corporate logos.

So, in summary the cause is jealousy.

On the bright side, NEW BAD LIEUTENANT ALBUM...WOOHOO!

Hooky should learn Greed is Useless Emotion.. Wait is "greed" an emotion?..hmmmmm

Peace

Fac063 wrote: On the bright side, NEW BAD LIEUTENANT ALBUM...WOOHOO!

Hooky should learn Greed is Useless Emotion.. Wait is "greed" an emotion?..hmmmmm

Peace

bit harsh

Fac063 wrote: On the bright side, NEW BAD LIEUTENANT ALBUM...WOOHOO!

Hooky should learn Greed is Useless Emotion.. Wait is "greed" an emotion?..hmmmmm

Peace

Not everyone is that thrilled about the prospect of a new all guitar BL album,but at least it is new music, maybe if Bernard did roughly half the new album with his guitar buddies and the other half with Stuart Price and call it the new Electronic album instead...

BrianMcGee wrote: Craig Gill (Inspiral Carpets) was telling me last January that the split between Barney and Hooky is over percentage royalties where the name New Order is used.

Hooky wants an even split, Barney feels Hooky's contribution is far from equal to the other members of the group, as he (Barney) and Steve did most of the writing and recording for New Order. Hooky is livid about this, because (in Craig's words) "Hooky's gone copyright and money mad these days".

Another quote from Craig "Hooky will tell you he owns the copyright on yellow stripes"

that's total rubbish

[orange]Jack[/orange] wrote:

BrianMcGee wrote: Craig Gill (Inspiral Carpets) was telling me last January that the split between Barney and Hooky is over percentage royalties where the name New Order is used.

Hooky wants an even split, Barney feels Hooky's contribution is far from equal to the other members of the group, as he (Barney) and Steve did most of the writing and recording for New Order. Hooky is livid about this, because (in Craig's words) "Hooky's gone copyright and money mad these days".

Another quote from Craig "Hooky will tell you he owns the copyright on yellow stripes"

that's total rubbish

Truth then not Cries and Whispers!

Enjoying the tour Jack?

It's a relief to hear that, but band members should really clear this up because otherwise all sorts of theories will crop up, probably messier than this one.

It's over, let it go and listen to the bootlegs from 84 :)

Of course they'll play together again.... you know those memory erasing gadgets they use in Men In Black? Well, I've bought one on eBay and I'm gonna use it on Barney and Hooky so they forget there ever was a feud.

I need to be careful not to erase all NO's bad memories though, otherwise they'll probably end up buying a nightclub again.

Then I'm gonna get Derren Brown to do a bit of hypnosis on Bernard to help him with his weight problem and overcome his pathological fear of touring. Perhaps Derren can also teach Bernard some of his memory techniques, so he doesn't need to sing off the autocue (mind you, I always enjoy seeing footage of Bernard improvising lyrics).

Jobs a good 'un. Sorted. New album and a tour by 2012.

maybe if Bernard did roughly half the new album with his guitar buddies and the other half with Stuart Price and call it the new Electronic album instead...

Now why would he do that? In case you've forgotten, Electronic was Johnny Marr and Bernard.

I rather enjoyed Never Cry Another Tear, well at least most of it. Especially, Twist of Fate, This Is Home, Running Out of Luck, Runaway, Falling Trees, and Splitting the Atom. I thought it was better than WFTSC overall. To each their own I suppose

But yeah, it's no Twisted Tenderness. That album is great start to finish IMHO.

Peace.

father jack wrote: Of course they'll play together again.... you know those memory erasing gadgets they use in Men In Black? Well, I've bought one on eBay and I'm gonna use it on Barney and Hooky so they forget there ever was a feud.

I need to be careful not to erase all NO's bad memories though, otherwise they'll probably end up buying a nightclub again.

Then I'm gonna get Derren Brown to do a bit of hypnosis on Bernard to help him with his weight problem and overcome his pathological fear of touring. Perhaps Derren can also teach Bernard some of his memory techniques, so he doesn't need to sing off the autocue (mind you, I always enjoy seeing footage of Bernard improvising lyrics).

Jobs a good 'un. Sorted. New album and a tour by 2012.

Brilliant, now I dont have to call Derek Acorah to speak to the ghost of Barneys touring past

Never say never.. they did it before as we know :) ...

I wonder if there is a secret way to persuade Bernard ..?!

Don't we all want New Order reformed?!

Can he do it for his fans?!!

Don't we all want New Order's new songs with a twist if Bernard feels like?!

Now that's a challenge for you Bernard darling! Please your fans once again if that's not too much to ask.. but I guess we luv ya anyway - forever and ever!

There! :) xxxx..

amurr586 wrote:

cranelane wrote: maybe if Bernard did roughly half the new album with his guitar buddies and the other half with Stuart Price and call it the new Electronic album instead...

Shite idea. As JJ points out Electronic was always Bernard Sumner and Johnny Marr. Honestly, I'd rather see a "proper" fourth Electronic album (as unlikely as it would be right now) rather than more Bad Loot shenanigans. Twisted Tenderness was the last truly decent effort in terms of pushing forward new music with an edge.

Sadly, I think from various interviews over the past few years from both Marr and Bernard it seems that Electronic has been "put to bed" permanently. Albeit on amicable terms as they're still friends.

fixed it for you