Republic Vs. WFTSC

The only two NO albums I don't like. However, WFTSC has Turn and Krafty, two tunes I like a lot. The best on Republic is Avalanche and has lots of the worst they've done. I also do dislike Regret, I have to admit. So yeah: WFTSC > Republic

rebublic cos i was having a better life then and so happier memories.Regret..........

Neither "Republic" nor "Waiting for the Sirens' Call" are underrated masterpieces (neither is "Get Ready" for that matter). I would have to say, however, that of the three post-Factory albums, WFTSC is the best in my opinion.

"Republic" is decent, but horribly produced in my opinion. The Stephen Hague production makes it sound rather dated and somewhat flimsy. Not that Hooky is my favorite member these days, but his bass could have been bolstered a bit more in the mix. While I don't dislike "Times Change," I would have preferred that it had been released as a b-side or a Barney side project of some sort.

"Get Ready" is in contrast to "Republic" a bit over-produced. It sounds like they're trying just a tad bit too hard to sound more aggressive than usual. I for one can't stand Billy Corgan - and this is coming from someone living in his home town. I would have preferred that his vocals had remained off the album. The synth programming on some of the tracks sounds a little too glossy (see "Close Range" in particular comes to mind). The programming sounds as if it was done my studio synth wizards versus having been done by the band themselves. Contrary to others though, being a Primal Scream fan, I do like "Rock The Shack."

WFTSC is for the most part a solid album. My major qualm is the artwork. I still can't believe that they actually went through with the "No" cover. When the artwork was revealed prior to its release, I seriously believed that it was joke. Unfortunately it wasn't. The lyrics on some of the tracks is likewise a bit weak. Did we really need two tracks in a row that start with the word "Hey"?!! I would have likewise preferred more cryptic track titles as opposed to ones that use words from the song. Other than that, I feel the album has a nice balanced sound. Also, in case you're wondering, "Jetstream" never particularly bothered me - don't think it's that bad of a track.

-Mike

Republic for me, a concise product from content to design. Its very much of its time in terms of what New Order were about, the relationship with Factory was in its death-throes, the band relationships were disintegrating and yet, out of arrogant defiance or pure Manc indifference, they produced this.

And, yeah, why does Movement get such a hard time? Fucking great record from start to finish. In fact the inclusion of the singles/B-sides spoils it for me; they should be kept seperate.

Anyone who thinks Movement is good needs their ears cleaned out. The studio production by Hannett is muddy and overproduced. Take out the Hannet mixes and replace them with the Peel Sessions and you have a much better record.

Republic I prefer - it carries an air of resigned, articulate disaster that few albums hold, and also, benefits from a unique atmosphere. i remember holding it in Leicester Burger King, barely in my twenties, thinking it was probably the last album - even on the day it came out - and probably the last New Order songs I would hear.

Regret - 10/10 – Classic Neworder World - 6/10 – Perfecto version would get 8/10 Ruined - 6/10 – K-Class version would get 9/10 Spooky – 6/10 – Stadium mix (extra bass) would get 8/10 Everyone everywhere – 5/10 – a skip track Young Offender - 5/10 – nice drums and *some *bass Liar – 6/10 – Musically uninspiring but lyrically pointed Chemical – 6/10 – Aggressive intro but interest soon fades Times Change – 4/10 – yellow fever / yellow hay. No. Special - 10/10 – Great song but some of the saddest lyrics Avalanche – 9/10 – Faith. Yes. Always. 73/110 = 66.4% - Not a bad score really, considering the ‘creative difficulties’.

Who’s Joe - 7/10 – Nice balance to synths/drums/guitar and bass.
Hey Now – 7/10 – Decent but wotchya lyrics again? Sirens – 9/10 – Great tune - almost a classic Krafty – 8/10 – Lovely drums and bass – and guitar outro I Told You So – 5/10 – Not really what I want from Neworder Morning Night & Day – 8/10 – Good solid song. Been there.
Dracula’s Castle – 9/10 - Brilliant Techniquey song. Just 2 faults: the ‘DC ‘in the title & lyrics. FFS. Jetstream – 5/10 – Single is marginally better mix. A skip track. Guilt – 8/10 – Solid dance beat and good interlaced guitars/bass. Turn – 9/10 – I love this song. Working Overtime – 4/10 – Skip track. 79/110 = 71.8%

Sirens wins by 5%, which is closer than I’d expected. Republic is saved by 3 classics whilst Sirens is more consistent, with some typically Neworder goofs (‘DC’ FFS, Working Overtime & ITYS.)

[This got me wondering, if you were to compile a 10 track compilation (to keep things tight) from the 3 post Factory LPs,which would come out on top. Probably for another thread though...]

Considering that Republic was allocated a Fact number FACT300 surely it is a Factory era LP?

I've always shuffled the running order of WFTSC, ending on Dracula's Castle, and taking out Working Overtime completely

Wow. Just.....wow.

Republic scoring much higher than Sirens Call in the poll.

I suppose it just goes to show how different we all are! I'm a long time New Order fan and I remember buying Sirens Call and putting it in the car on the way to work for its first listen. It stayed in the car for six weeks! I couldn't get enough of it. I still listen to it straight through at least once a month.

Republic is a good album but it's very much a once-a-year affair for me at most.

mark reed wrote: Anyone who thinks Movement is good needs their ears cleaned out. The studio production by Hannett is muddy and overproduced.

Nevermind the chuffing production, do you like the songs or not?

I think both are pretty even in my book, maybe Republic getting the slight nod because of the strength of "regret" and "ruined". Both albums released in different era, so they are products of the decade it was released so that weighs little differently to me.

Maybe it was the cover artwork on republic that i remember it as NO's most ambitious album in terms of reaching out to a broader audience yet didn't compromise on their music. In America when it was release, grunge music was in and NO didn't alter their sound to win fans over here.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

PCL is a rather experimental LP. I'm sure for those who heard in 1983-85 it was very fresh and exciting. The quality is great. I heard it back in 1994, after Republic, Technique and Movement and I was not that impressed. Of course, Age of Consent, The Village and to some degree 586 were all superb, but the rest just didn't catch my ear enough to listen to that album over and over again for the past 17 years, unlike other albums.

I love the experimental nature of it.... I remember Tim Jauncey on here describing what it was like hearing Ultraviolence or Ecstacy (one of them) live back in 1982/83, like you say that must have been so exciting at the time, but I still play those 2 a fair bit when I listen to New Order. They're utterly mad and bouncy just like the whole of that album, it's like they just tossed the Joy Division blueprint out the window after Movement and made a complete shift.

Age of Consent is one of their very best songs, and you left out Leave Me Alone and Your Silent Face, which are great tracks - I mean if either of those had been on WFTSC the album's stock would be far higher. A shame they couldn't find a spot for Hurt, although it probably fits better the way it is on Factus 8. The PCL period is right in the heartland of New Order to me, I love it.

BTW maybe I haven't listened it for so long my memory is playing tricks on me, but I thought Ruined in a Day was ... not memorable?? Or rather, not so good that it would stand out on WFTSC?

I loved RIAD in 1993, but not so much now. Everyone Everywhere, on the other hand, has aged beautifully.

Housey wrote: Everyone Everywhere, on the other hand, has aged beautifully.

Why thank you sir

'Ma'am' :p

Oh, and yes, I like the "Movement" songs very much! 'Doubts Even Here' is a lost gem.

Republic is the worst New Order album for me... Not to say there wasn't some good stuff on it, but compared to Technique or PC&L it's a great disappointment. Regret is fantastic, RIAD & World are good, and Special, Avalanche, Everyone Everywhere are just OK, but the rest is utter SHITE! Although I have to admit I recently heard the video mix of Spooky for the first time and it was great, a huge improvement over the album version of the track.

WFTSC... well, there aren't as many lows on it as Republic, but then again there aren't the highs of say a Regret on it either. But all in all it's a better album I think. Turn and WFTSC are both top notch plus Krafty is pretty good as well. I have to say I'm an I Told You So admirer as well, probably one of few..

I absolutely love the songs on Movement, although as has been said previously Martin Hannett's production killed it. But live it was a gem, their performances of Denial on the Italy '82 tour are as intense as anything I've ever heard from New Order. And the Peel Sessions version of ICB is sublime as well, sounds like a lost Joy Division classic!

everyoneverywhere wrote:

Was Barney right to throw a wobbler over Q's WFTSC review, or were they [for a change] spot on??

What review was that and what was Barney's response? I'd like to read them both, I'm sure they'd be quite amusing...

Asking us to compare one turd against another is a pretty pointless exercise....

Isn't it?

It all comes down to the texture I guess, and the 2005 discharge (literally!) has a few nuttier bits amongst the crud, whilst the 1993 'release' was much smoother and more like, oh....I'd say, diarrhoea......otherwise known as bum gravy.

:p

NotAMod wrote: I do sometimes wonder why you're a fan, Eck.

You really do have fuck all positive to say :)

To write either album off as absolutely shocking in terms of every single minute of content is mad. There's some fantastic stuff on each. Some fans just love to fucking whine.

You take my posts too seriously man...lighten up. :) If you were to delve back deeper in the forum you might discover that I DO hail half of each respective album on its own merits. In that previous thread that discusses these two albums - wherever the hell it is buried down the thread list - I state that Republic is 1 great song, 4 good ones and 6 duff ones. Likewise WFTSC has its good moments - of which there - again - are five, and there are six rather forgettable uneventful tracks..... Eureka!

I guess when we keep seeing the same thread subjects repeated over and over again then I have a tendency to just take the piss....as I'm sure many other posters do likewise. It's not such a crime is it surely? ;)

Remember the one undisputed fact: I am a Bunnymen fan first and foremost and a JD/NO fan kinda second or third just behind it..... but that doesn't stop me from having digs elsewhere at Ian Mac's less inspiring moments either!!

Skullcrushed wrote:

everyoneverywhere wrote:

Was Barney right to throw a wobbler over Q's WFTSC review, or were they [for a change] spot on??

What review was that and what was Barney's response? I'd like to read them both, I'm sure they'd be quite amusing...

From memory...it got 2/5. Not a particularly savage review, just tepid.

Then they doled out one of these pensioners-win-prizes gongs to NO at the Q awards. Hook (and maybe Morris?) showed up to get it. Sumner didn't.

In his acceptance speech, Peter said (words to the effect of) "Bernard would have been here, but he thinks you're all a bunch of two-faced hypocrites".

Tony Casanova wrote:

Skullcrushed wrote:

everyoneverywhere wrote:

Was Barney right to throw a wobbler over Q's WFTSC review, or were they [for a change] spot on??

What review was that and what was Barney's response? I'd like to read them both, I'm sure they'd be quite amusing...

From memory...it got 2/5. Not a particularly savage review, just tepid.

Then they doled out one of these pensioners-win-prizes gongs to NO at the Q awards. Hook (and maybe Morris?) showed up to get it. Sumner didn't.

In his acceptance speech, Peter said (words to the effect of) "Bernard would have been here, but he thinks you're all a bunch of two-faced hypocrites".

Really? That's pretty awesome.

By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote:

You take my posts too seriously man...lighten up. :) If you were to delve back deeper in the forum you might discover that I DO hail half of each respective album on its own merits. In that previous thread that discusses these two albums - wherever the hell it is buried down the thread list - I state that Republic is 1 great song, 4 good ones and 6 duff ones. Likewise WFTSC has its good moments - of which there - again - are five, and there are six rather forgettable uneventful tracks..... Eureka!

Haha yeah Ally, your fault for not familiarising yerself with 'Ecky's post history before you commented !

Years ago an article (the one flicked thru at the start of the Regret Wankwatch vid!) described Brotherhood as a 'son of LowLife', and I reckon you can describe a lot of their weaker moments thus - Movement to Closer, Raise The Pressure to Electronic, Monaco to Music For Pleasure... And of course Republic to Technique, and WFTSC (always looks rude, that) to Get Ready. When I first heard Republic I was disppointed but everyone was and we've had nearly 20 years to get over it. Sirens is all right but I preferred GR and am surprised at the criticisms it's getting - the second half is a tad hit 'n' miss but Crystal and trax 3 - 5 still slay.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Years ago an article (the one flicked thru at the start of the Regret Wankwatch vid!) described Brotherhood as a 'son of LowLife', and I reckon you can describe a lot of their weaker moments thus - Movement to Closer, Raise The Pressure to Electronic, Monaco to Music For Pleasure... And of course Republic to Technique, and WFTSC (always looks rude, that) to Get Ready. When I first heard Republic I was disppointed but everyone was and we've had nearly 20 years to get over it. Sirens is all right but I preferred GR and am surprised at the criticisms it's getting - the second half is a tad hit 'n' miss but Crystal and trax 3 - 5 still slay.

I agree with you only I'd say that most of Get Ready is decent, I can even Rock The Shack! Plus nothing is remotedly as bad as Working Overtime, so it's naturally going to kick Sirens' ass.

Sirens over Republic (a glorified single with a ton of B-sides) or Get Ready (some very good stuff, some real duds). Sirens has its flaws (mostly lyrical, Vlad), but on the whole it's more consistent than GR and simply better written than Republic. And it's better produced than either.

Chase wrote: Sirens over Republic (a glorified single with a ton of B-sides) or Get Ready (some very good stuff, some real duds). Sirens has its flaws (mostly lyrical, Vlad), but on the whole it's more consistent than GR and simply better written than Republic. And it's better produced than either.

Rubbish. Republic pisses over both GR and Sirens. It features the ultimate NO line up after all!

The Paradise Man wrote:

Chase wrote: Sirens over Republic (a glorified single with a ton of B-sides) or Get Ready (some very good stuff, some real duds). Sirens has its flaws (mostly lyrical, Vlad), but on the whole it's more consistent than GR and simply better written than Republic. And it's better produced than either.

Rubbish. Republic pisses over both GR and Sirens. It features the ultimate NO line up after all!

Listened to both of them driving around in the car today, to refresh my memory. Purchased 'Republic' when it came out, same for 'WFSC'. Have to totally agree with the above, apart from 'Regret', which is a total classic track, most of the album is orindary. 'WFSC', has some weak moments('Draculas castle would be a far better song with a different title), but overall is more consistant. It has the vibe and atmosphere that attracted me to New Order, Morris' drumming, Hooks bass. Even 'Krafty', which annoyed me, I don't mind now.

Lyrics are ordinary, but overall, clearly a way better album.

Can't remember where I saw this...but Republic is the sound of the band breaking up.

Could there be a reason that the 4 singles are the 4 first songs on the album? Assuming one listens non-stop from 1 to 4 then we kind of listen to a bit of 5 to end, before we know it, we are done listening. :P

Get Ready has the sound of the band members building their bridges.

I actually like WFTSC.