New Box Set

There's an interview with Stephen Morris in that 'Pop' magazine, and he clearly states that he's currently curating a new box set comprising old video clips, rare tracks etc

Interesting.Thanks for the info.What is that 'Pop' magazine you read that in, Emile? Do you mean that 'Classic Pop' mag? I actually saw a latest issue of that in WH Smith the other day but didn't look at it.

This has been on and off since the Recycle T-shirts in 98. Not another retread, please.

I'll be fascinated to see what old video footage is included that hasn't already been in circulation/YouTube for years.

Sweet FA, I would imagine. One new album - 3865423 compilations, 7343707658096 documentaries, 9859754876349087450947 remixes. Who do you think you are? Some kind of superstar?

Fotzepolitic wrote: Interesting.Thanks for the info.What is that 'Pop' magazine you read that in, Emile? Do you mean that 'Classic Pop' mag? I actually saw a latest issue of that in WH Smith the other day but didn't look at it.

Yes, it's the 'Classic Pop' magazine. My mistake. Decent interview

I can only wish Steve the best of luck in choosing what goes into the box set.I still vaguely recall the unparalleled level of anger and complaints on the old forums back in 2002 when the tracklist for Retro was announced and which eventually led to the bonus disc being thrown into the mix at the last minute.

Fotzepolitic wrote: I can only wish Steve the best of luck in choosing what goes into the box set.I still vaguely recall the unparalleled level of anger and complaints on the old forums back in 2002 when the tracklist for Retro was announced and which eventually led to the bonus disc being thrown into the mix at the last minute.

Haha, I remember all the horror that went on here back when Retro came out. I think I had the username "Low-Life" or "Re-Member" back then and did my fair share of moaning about it as well. To be fair, other people ended up compiling the box set. If Steve is somehow directly involved, I have hope. Back when the "Live in Glasgow" DVD came out, there was loads of live footage on the second disc I had never seen before, so who knows what else he might have lurking in the vaults.

Moderne Decay wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: I can only wish Steve the best of luck in choosing what goes into the box set.I still vaguely recall the unparalleled level of anger and complaints on the old forums back in 2002 when the tracklist for Retro was announced and which eventually led to the bonus disc being thrown into the mix at the last minute.

Haha, I remember all the horror that went on here back when Retro came out. I think I had the username "Low-Life" or "Re-Member" back then and did my fair share of moaning about it as well. To be fair, other people ended up compiling the box set. If Steve is somehow directly involved, I have hope. Back when the "Live in Glasgow" DVD came out, there was loads of live footage on the second disc I had never seen before, so who knows what else he might have lurking in the vaults.

True, there was a fair bit of previously unseen live footage on the Glasgow DVD.I've not watched it all that much and certainly not for a long time so will have to have a viewing session again soon.Maybe Steve has got hours and hours of good quality gig footage that's never seen the light of day.As for rare tracks, again i'll be fascinated to see what he has that people haven't heard before.Maybe there's rare studio footage also.

I remember being so disappointed with Retro. Knowing that it could have been great and for whatever reason is what just so wishy washy. A real missed opportunity, and not what Gretton had in mind at all.

I guess there's also the elephant who isn't in the room this time around to contend with too: Hooky. Not a case of if, but when he'll throw a spanner in the works. But I guess Morris wouldn't work on this project unless it had clearance. Who knows?

I'd like as much footage from 87-89 as possible please, a good quality Hooky doing The Happy One on OSM, and likewise the BBC Rock Around the Clock broadcast, and all TOTP appearances as clear as hell. Yes, they're on Youtube, but it would be nice to have them crystal clear on disc.

Yeah i vaguely recall being disappointed upon seeing the tracklist for Retro a month or so before its release but i can't quite remember exactly why i was disappointed, it's so long ago now.Can only presume it was because there was nothing over the 4 discs that hadn't been released before; well apart form live stuff on disc 4 but a lot of that had been in circulation on bootlegs for a long time.It was only with the late addition of the bonus disc with stuff such as the 17 minute Elegia that fans' anger was calmed a little.

I think rumours had started to circulate around 1997-98 that the "Recycle" box set would have every New Order single repackaged in individual CDs in a nice box- early New Order singles such as Ceremony right up to Bizarre Love Triangle (i think) hadn't been released as a CD single at that time (and many of the early singles still haven't, officially).I think a lot of the eventual disappointment in 2002 was because the Box Set had ultimately been reduced to 4 discs with dubious choices of tracks most fans had long owned.

edit: I think there was even a rumour at one point in the late 90s that Recycle would also contain the multitracks for every New Order single.That sounded a tad ambitious !

The wondrous world of New Order releases:

1. There's a vaguest, non-commitallest, imprecisest hypothetical conditioned suggestion something might like could just may maybe perhaps emerge on the proverbial horizon.
2. Everyone on the forums gets a collective boner and with their free hand comes up with dream scenarios so far-fetched they make Hieronymus Bosch look like EastEnders.
3. I dare imply they should get real cos it won't be for at least 3 years and even then it'll be like anal sex, i.e. fucking shit.
4. They respond, Fuck you and yer fucking cynicism and pessimism yer fucking morbid wanker, yer pissing on our joint bonfire and spoiling all the fun.
5. Nothing for at least 3 years and even then it's like anal sex, i.e. fucking shit.
6. Repeat until death.

Evening, Michael.

I saw a big sign, 'New Order - Sold Out!' I thought, They did, didn't they.

Fotzepolitic wrote: Yeah i vaguely recall being disappointed upon seeing the tracklist for Retro a month or so before its release but i can't quite remember exactly why i was disappointed, it's so long ago now.Can only presume it was because there was nothing over the 4 discs that hadn't been released before; well apart form live stuff on disc 4 but a lot of that had been in circulation on bootlegs for a long time.

I remember exactly why I was disappointed. I had just purchased the Echo & The Bunnymen box set and it was great. It was a nice chronological career spanning set which had enough rarities for the fans, plus worked as a nice introduction for new comers. Retro, on the other hand, felt like a total mess. The first three discs felt completely random and didn't do much to tell the story of the band, then the live disc had a lot of bootleg sounding recordings. Also at the time, the original Ceremony and 7" Temptation had yet to be released on CD, plus there were still a lot of the 12" singles which haven't made it to disc yet in original unedited form. Thankfully, the disappointed toward the box set kicked started that Recycle blog and those of us here at the time were truly blessed to finally get what we wanted.

Those wonderful bunnymen did put out a nice thing, even though I already had it all.new order put out something stupid , and was just not needed. So new order made up for it by writing about 35 new interesting songs since ( not including the 8 fine songs from BL), and the bunnies have zero interesting songs since flowers. I still love plenty of bunnie's songs, and cherish memories of these 2 great bands- cost a lot to see the bunnies about 30 times, NO about 15, but no regrets - and twice they played together

keepitcoming wrote: Those wonderful bunnymen did put out a nice thing, even though I already had it all.new order put out something stupid , and was just not needed. So new order made up for it by writing about 35 new interesting songs since ( not including the 8 fine songs from BL), and the bunnies have zero interesting songs since flowers. I still love plenty of bunnie's songs, and cherish memories of these 2 great bands- cost a lot to see the bunnies about 30 times, NO about 15, but no regrets - and twice they played together

to me its the exact opposite.

echo and the bunnymen have become far more interesting than new order, in the second half of their career.

meteorites is much more interesting than music complete. same with all their albums from 'evergreen' onwards.

new order has sunk further and further down since low-life, with nothing coming close to even that.

as far as the box sets goes, yes, to me the echo box was great for people that didn't have all of it, and even if you did, a lot of tracks were never on CD before.

the new order box was a toss up, except for the bonus disc, and even then, just average

echo has gotten better live, and mac's voice still holds up.

they play old songs, new songs, and every thing else, including orchestral concerts.

bernard has lost a lot of his voice, and the bands set list has dried up, and become greatest hits over and over.

no contest for me.

later -1

negative1 wrote:

keepitcoming wrote: Those wonderful bunnymen did put out a nice thing, even though I already had it all.new order put out something stupid , and was just not needed. So new order made up for it by writing about 35 new interesting songs since ( not including the 8 fine songs from BL), and the bunnies have zero interesting songs since flowers. I still love plenty of bunnie's songs, and cherish memories of these 2 great bands- cost a lot to see the bunnies about 30 times, NO about 15, but no regrets - and twice they played together

to me its the exact opposite.

echo and the bunnymen have become far more interesting than new order, in the second half of their career.

meteorites is much more interesting than music complete. same with all their albums from 'evergreen' onwards.

new order has sunk further and further down since low-life, with nothing coming close to even that.

---

as far as the box sets goes, yes, to me the echo box was great for people that didn't have all of it, and even if you did, a lot of tracks were never on CD before.

the new order box was a toss up, except for the bonus disc, and even then, just average

---

echo has gotten better live, and mac's voice still holds up.

they play old songs, new songs, and every thing else, including orchestral concerts.

bernard has lost a lot of his voice, and the bands set list has dried up, and become greatest hits over and over.

no contest for me.

later -1

NO are doing two orchestral shows at the Opera House here in Sydney in June.

negative1 wrote:

keepitcoming wrote: Those wonderful bunnymen did put out a nice thing, even though I already had it all.new order put out something stupid , and was just not needed. So new order made up for it by writing about 35 new interesting songs since ( not including the 8 fine songs from BL), and the bunnies have zero interesting songs since flowers. I still love plenty of bunnie's songs, and cherish memories of these 2 great bands- cost a lot to see the bunnies about 30 times, NO about 15, but no regrets - and twice they played together

to me its the exact opposite.

echo and the bunnymen have become far more interesting than new order, in the second half of their career.

meteorites is much more interesting than music complete. same with all their albums from 'evergreen' onwards.

new order has sunk further and further down since low-life, with nothing coming close to even that.

---

as far as the box sets goes, yes, to me the echo box was great for people that didn't have all of it, and even if you did, a lot of tracks were never on CD before.

the new order box was a toss up, except for the bonus disc, and even then, just average

---

echo has gotten better live, and mac's voice still holds up.

they play old songs, new songs, and every thing else, including orchestral concerts.

bernard has lost a lot of his voice, and the bands set list has dried up, and become greatest hits over and over.

no contest for me.

later -1

Interesting your thoughts on Ian Mculloch's voice and Bernard's.I feel Mculloch's voice isn't a patch on what it used to be whereas i think Bernard's has actually improved.I haven't bought a Bunnymen album since What Are You Going To With Your Life? ( some really good songs on that album) in 1999 but have heard a few recent (2014) songs and i thought Mculloch was really struggling with vocals.Shame because his voice in the Bunnymen's 80s pomp was fantastic to say the least as were the band themselves.

Echo and the Bunnymen are as great as anything, but New Order is not just anything they are everything [eek2] 😕 😈 m

NotAMod wrote:

Retro bar the bonus disc was a wasted opportunity.

Quite honestly I think that goes for every rerelease except the Glasgow DVD 2. I've never known a band so endlessly reworked yet remaining so credible. If Simply Red got the same treatment they'd be massacred.

NotAMod wrote: The band didn't seem interested.

Again, pretty much true for everything (except Bernard's involvement in 94 / 95). It was significant at http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=2944 where Steve goes through all the albums and includes Substance but not a single one of the London cash-ins. His accountant probably knows more about them than he does.

Well anyway i won't be parting with my cash for this box set unless there's a lot of previously unseen , good quality, video footage of gigs or long lost tv appearances and rare tracks.I very much doubt though that there is any long lost footage of tv stuff.Most of the tv appearances over the years are out there now.Even stuff like Thieves Like Us on Southampton TV in 1983 or the same song again on Music Convoy in 1984 have been on YouTube for years now, though the Southampton TV thing could do with a good quality clip seeing the light of day.But i'm seriously fascinated to see what if any footage Steve has that's never been seen.And what rare tracks could there possibly be that even the modest New Order collector hasn't already got????? Even though Retro was a balls-up i just can't understand the point (other than money) of doing another box set if there's nothing on it that isn't already out there😕 😕 😕 😕

Moderne Decay wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: Yeah i vaguely recall being disappointed upon seeing the tracklist for Retro a month or so before its release but i can't quite remember exactly why i was disappointed, it's so long ago now.Can only presume it was because there was nothing over the 4 discs that hadn't been released before; well apart form live stuff on disc 4 but a lot of that had been in circulation on bootlegs for a long time.

I remember exactly why I was disappointed. I had just purchased the Echo & The Bunnymen box set and it was great.

It WAS great. In that "form-factor" I have that, Heart & Soul, Siouxsie & The Banshee's "Downside Up" and The Cure's "Join the Dots". All are truly fantastic. I never bought Retro because it paled in comparison. I'd love a decent NO offering, but as others have said, Recycle has rather addressed that need (having said that, I have big holes in my Recycle collection. Can I PM anyone to help me fill them?)

I'd also be interested in any other strong releases in that form-factor for other groups.

NotAMod wrote:

negative1 wrote: new order has sunk further and further down since low-life, with nothing coming close to even that.

Well that's all subjective and personal taste, isn't it? Low-life's a great record but the band recorded and released a slew of great songs post-85. Almost undeniable. I personally found the naughties-era albums to be a bit patchy but when even they hit their high points they could be pretty special. Also, if New Order truly stopped being a good band for you in 1985 why do you devote so much time to them on these forums and documenting all of their releases post-85? Some fans prefer to take refuge in the "generally accepted best" particularly the Factory era but I personally find stuff like Crystal, Who's Joe, Turn, I'll Stay With You, Academic and Singularity to be close to or better than a great deal of that older stuff.

if you noticed, i concentrate mostly on their single releases, and associated songs, not necessarily their albums.

to me they have always been a 'singles' band, and there have been plenty of those, with releases, re-releases, and multiple mixes of songs.

and the ones i prefer the most are from the 80s.

NotAMod wrote:

negative1 wrote: the new order box was a toss up, except for the bonus disc, and even then, just average

Retro bar the bonus disc was a wasted opportunity. The band didn't seem interested, the label were border-line uninterested and it ended up being dropped in the lap of a few celeb mates to compile. The concept was definitely flawed and just didn't seem to work. The bonus disc was a last minute panic because they knew it had ended up a fairly random compilation of commonly-available stuff most fans already had. This new box-set which has been mooted in the music press is a brilliant opportunity to right that wrong. It's a chance for the fans to finally get a New Order archival release that will stand the test of time. I wish them all the best and hope they get it right.

there is little to no hope for a great boxset to come out, because there is too much material to sort out.

so far the fan compilations do a much better job, because of the variety of material available, and the research, and care taken to put them together,

NotAMod wrote:

negative1 wrote: orchestral concerts.

Can't think of anything worse, truly. But then that's just me. It's personal preference but I've found bands performing live with orchestras can be very hit and miss. Maybe I've seen the wrong ones. That said the studio orchestral bits on Music Complete do work well and don't interfere with the sound too much. The arrangement on Tutti Frutti for instance really works.

my point was, there is a lot more variety in echo and the bunnymen shows.

they have a lot to draw from.... so does new order, but if you notice, they concentrate solely on their early era songs.

rarely, if any songs, from the last 5 albums make it into the concerts.

and even if they play them, there is rarely any variation in the songs, they have a lot more variety and improvisation in their early concerts from the 80s.

there would be little to no interest, if new order played only new songs, or even the majority of them. they realize the strength of their appeal, is their back catalogue.

NotAMod wrote:

negative1 wrote: bernard has lost a lot of his voice

Bollocks. I've seen the band regularly(ish) recently and even if you read reviews of recent gigs people have had a lot of compliments for Bernard's recent vocal performances. They're vastly better than they were during most of the Get Ready and Sirens' gigs. The whooping has gone which has greatly improved how the songs come across. Besides, do you seriously expect Bernard to sing exactly as he did in 1985 or 1989? That's just incredibly naive. He's sixty now so expecting him to belt out Age Of Consent exactly as he did in 1983 is a bit misguided. I think Music Complete demonstrated on a few tracks he's found his feet with singing in a lower register, he sounds pretty good on Nothing But A Fool. His lower range seems to have "come of age" for sure.

You do have a point with the recent sets being a tad repetitive but they have introduced newer songs (Lonesome, Academic) and new arrangements (WFTSC, BLT) so it's a bit unfair to say they've been totally static. At the end of the day not everyone going to their gigs are hardcore fans like us. Some people want to hear Blue Monday and the more established songs and would feel disappointed if they were omitted so 50 people in the front row could enjoy "The Happy One".

i have heard, and seen new order a few times in the last several years, along with echo. i've listened to the recordings, and watched them for both bands.

no, i do not expect them to sound like they did 30 years ago, but all things considered, i think ian has held up better overall compared to bernard.

one thing about new order, is that they do sound better live now, and not as 'raw' as they used to when they first started, and bernard is not as off-key as he used to be.

later -1

“Retro” was dogshit. A complete waste of silver. Another greatest hits on disc one? Yay. (Snooze). LP tracks reissued for the umpteenth time? (zzzzz). An occasional remix on disc three? (glare) A chronological concert disc made from their most boring period of stadium competence? (SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY).

I pulled together an alternative set I made with CDR's that rocked the fucking shit out of “Retro”. It looked something like this, but I can't find the CDR's now.

CD ONE True Faith (Peel Session)* / Touched By The Hand Of God (Peel Session)* / Temptation-98* / Confusion (DMC Mix from Volume 1 compilation)* / Thieves Like Us (7” edit) / The Perfect Kiss (7” edit) / Bizarre Love Triangle (7” mix) / World In Motion / Regret / Ruined In A Day / World / Spooky (Minimix) / Crystal / 60MPH / Here To Stay / Brutal

CD TWO Round & Round (New Order 12” Mix) / Fine Time (Silk Mix) / Run2 (12”) / Blue Monday-88 (12”) / Subculture (Record Mirror Mix) / Paradise (Racic Mix) / Regret (Newordermix) / World (Brothers In Rhythm Mix) / Everythings Gone Green (One of the Advent mixes) / True Faith (Pink Noise Mix) / Here To Stay (Glitz Mix) / Someone Like You (Futureshock) / 60 MPH (Superman Lovers Mix)

CD THREE Salvation / Dreams Never End (Peel) / Truth (Peel) / Senses (Peel) / ICB (Peel) / Turn The Heater On (Peel) / We All Stand (Peel) / Too Late (Peel) / 586 (Peel) / Paradise (Peel)* / Isolation (Peel)* / Atmosphere (Peel)* / Behind Closed Doors / Sabotage / Player In The League / Such A Good Thing / Rock The Shack (Peel)* / Slow Jam (Peel)* / Close Range (Peel)* / Your Silent Face (Peel)*

CD FOUR Elegia (full version)* / Sputnik / Skullcrusher / Theme A La MGM / Don't Do It / Best & Marsh / MTO / Vicious Circle / Video 586

CD FOUR Ruined In A Day / Regret / Isolation / Heart And Soul / Round & Round / World / Everyone Everywhere / Paradise / True Faith / Temptation / The Perfect Kiss / Blue Monday / World In Motion Reading 1993+98

DVD :

1. Pumped Full Of Drugs (50 mins) 2. Academy 1987 (47 minutes) 3. Brixton 1989 (20 minutes) 4. Montreux 1993 (55 mins)

Only one more disc than 'Retro', 4 full live shows on DVD, a Live At Reading CD, 12 unreleased songs *, and almost everything on there was never on a previous New Order album. I don't think there would have been as much moaning at the time!

negative1 wrote:

keepitcoming wrote: Those wonderful bunnymen did put out a nice thing, even though I already had it all.new order put out something stupid , and was just not needed. So new order made up for it by writing about 35 new interesting songs since ( not including the 8 fine songs from BL), and the bunnies have zero interesting songs since flowers. I still love plenty of bunnie's songs, and cherish memories of these 2 great bands- cost a lot to see the bunnies about 30 times, NO about 15, but no regrets - and twice they played together

---

echo has gotten better live, and mac's voice still holds up.

they play old songs, new songs, and every thing else, including orchestral concerts.

bernard has lost a lot of his voice, and the bands set list has dried up, and become greatest hits over and over.

no contest for me.

later -1

Try saying something good and positive about the band. Just you know, try it. It honestly doesn't hurt.

Also, I prefer N.O. live now. It's not a 'Greatest Hits', if it was, they'd close every gig with WORLD IN MOSHUN. Yes, they play some singles from the 80's. But also, there's a lot of singles from the 80's they don't play.

Finally, Bernard has 'lost' his voice? What absolute rubbish. Bernard has had singing lessons, and doesn't sound like a breathles seal barking and yelping off key anymore. I'd take that anyday over the versions of "Age Of Consent" where's he sings offkey, screws up the words, and snorts a line of white stuff for the encore.

I think the only good bit about Retro was the booklet.