Mapping the (hopefully!) forthcoming Definitive Editions... Part 1 - PC&L

OK, I may be getting (wayyyyyyy!) ahead of myself, but I thought it might be fun to predict what might be on the next boxset, after 'Movement'.

Yes, I'm probably being a bit hopeful with suggestions here but, who knows, by listing stuff here, the powers that be might see it and make it happen. It therefore might be a good idea to get an early start here.

So, going on the template that 'Movement' Deluxe has set, we should possibly plan for a 1 x vinyl, 2 x CD, 1 x DVD (plus book) set, with the vinyl and 1 x CD taken up with the original LP, lovingly restored.

Therefore, we only need to speculate on the other CD and the DVD:

CD2:

It seems likely that, as we are probably getting accompanying 12"s (for, presumably, Blue Monday, Confusion, Thieves Like Us and, maybe, Murder), tracks featured on these records won't be included. This would reflect what is on 'Movement' CD2, with this not including non-album singles, b-sides etc.

I would imagine (again, like 'Movement'), we will get mainly demos on this disc. So, possibly, a demo for each LP track, plus demos for Blue Monday, Confusion, Thieves Like Us, Lonesome Tonight and Murder. Do demos even exist for these tracks? I would love to hear a demo of Blue Monday.

What else could be on here, though, apart from demos. The only tracks I can think of from around this period that could feature are:

Video 5.8.6 (maybe too long to fit on the disc?) Ode To Joy / Rocking Carol (would the band want these 'BeMusic' items included?) Too Late / Turn The Heater On (perhaps the band had a stab at doing 'studio', i.e. non-Peel versions)

Personally, I'd love to have Video 5.8.6 feature. I'm not that bothered by the two Xmas flexi tracks, but the completist in me would rather like them added.

Anything I've missed on this that we know (or hope) exists?

DVD:

I'm going to go out on a limb here and hope that the 'music videos' are going to be included on the box-sets. If so, we could probably include the following:

Blue Monday (original video) (are there problems with copyright on this one though?) Confusion Primitive 5.8.6 (original video from Haçienda opening; from 'A Factory Video')

Live 'professional' / 'semi professional' stuff that exists that could be used:

Melbourne 27/11/82 Haçienda 26/01/83 (Your Silent Face was on 'A Factory Outing') Cork 22/04/83 (2 tracks were on the Glasgow DVD) Minneapolis 29/06/83 (great footage exists) Music For Miners 14/05/84 (great rehearsal footage exists, sadly without sound) Seaside Festival 11/08/84 (great footage exists and was featured on Belgian TV)

TV:

Riverside 17/0/83 (nice article about the Haçienda) Top Of The Pops 31/03/83 (Blue Monday) Switch 01/04/83 (Age Of Consent & Blue Monday) Countdown 05/06/83 (Interview, Blue Monday and (the fabled) Confusion) Riverside 10/10/83 (Interview) DJ 03/12/83 (Thieves Like Us) Musik Convoy 16/04/84 (Thieves Like Us) Top Of The Pops 03/05/84 (Thieves Like Us) Pop Elektron 25/05/84 (Interview, Thieves Like Us) Play At Home 21/08/84 (this HAS to be included) Rock Around The Clock 25/08/84 (I'm hoping that the band will ok this brilliant 'car crash' performance) Estoc De Pop 15/09/84 (four tracks broadcast, but whole gig could be included)

OK - I'm about done. Phew!

Anything I've missed? Anything you'd absolutely love to see included?

A photo of Barney in his white lab coat he apparently wore during the recording sessions would be great

Fotzepolitic wrote: A photo of Barney in his white lab coat he apparently wore during the recording sessions would be great

I'd pay for that, haha.

I wish they'd drop the live DVD stuff or release it separately. Feels like an excuse to crank up the price (if anyone's listening).

The Butterworth book might give more insight to PCL demos - been a while since I read it.

tapebias wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: A photo of Barney in his white lab coat he apparently wore during the recording sessions would be great

I'd pay for that, haha.

I wish they'd drop the live DVD stuff or release it separately. Feels like an excuse to crank up the price (if anyone's listening).

The Butterworth book might give more insight to PCL demos - been a while since I read it.

The live / DVD stuff is what I’m most excited by.

Don’t get me wrong, I love hearing demos and would be pumped to hear an otherwise unreleased track or two (like Homage). But the live stuff, especially from the 80s, is golden. I just love watching them on old footage. They were (are) immense.

Not sure about the details in the Butterworth book. I read it about two years ago. IIRC, he was only there during the actual final recordings, mixing etc. He might not have heard any demos (which were possibly recorded at an earlier date). Can’t seem to recall him mentioning any demos.

I’m guessing there must be demos though. Anyone know?

Someone has posted this on Facebook. A possible release date and format details (inc. 2 x DVD!):

So 08/11/19 then! With the four 12”s being released, one a week, starting 11/10/19.

Hope this is accurate. 2 x DVDs. The mind boggles as to what might be on this.

Thanks to BaggieBoiler for pointing this out to me this morning.

I'd love this to feature the unreleased 7 inch edits of Blue Monday and (presumably) The Beach. About time these versions surfaced.

I love that the original 12 inches are finally getting digital versions released with the original cover image - long overdue that these tracks are finally available to download and stream. Saves buying the vinyl for a second time too. Wish they'd do the same with the 7 inch tracks too, to slowly make everything available digitally.

I’m still holding out for a CD singles box set once the LP sets are done, but I think I’m grasping...

Still, I’m massively happy with these sets and the accompanying 12”s.

Can’t wait until we get to hear the contents of the LP set. By my reckoning, based on how close the announcement of Movement was before release, we could get a PC&L announcement in mid-July. Not long to wait.

(Unless any of our illustrious friends on these boards could give us a sneak glimpse into the contents. 😉)

Or at least confirm that it is definitely going to have two DVDs.

Interesting development. Hope that info is for real. I’ll be very interested to see what’s on the DVD and second CD.I guess I’ll end up buying the four 12” re-releases also.Maybe some more tweaking ( accidental or intended) to the sleeves and new improved inners too?

Here’s hoping for a die-cut / silver inner version of Blue Monday. I’m sure we’ll get it.

actually its a little disappointing if that's what it is.

only 2 cds...

album - 43 minutes by itself

if they exclude :

Bonus Disc

2-1 Blue Monday 7:32 2-2 The Beach 7:22 2-3 Confusion 8:15 2-4 Thieves Like Us 6:38 2-5 Lonesome Tonight 5:13 2-6 Murder 3:57 2-7 Thieves Like Us (Instrumental) 6:59 2-8 Confusion (Instrumental) 7:36

about 53 minutes total

so you have about 30 minutes to put other tracks:

blue monday 7 inch edit blue monday video version confusion 7 inch edit thieves like us 7 inch edit thieves like us instrumental 7 inch edit lonesome tonight 7 inch edit

the 2nd disc would have demos i expect. the only other mixes missing are the 2 other confusion ones from that era there are 2 other thieves like us mixes video 586 might show up also.

yes, i expect there are tons of tv appearances and other tracks. along with live shows.

hoping there's more music than video added.

already have the original 12 inches already for the singles, murder only had 1 format, so that might nice for people that never got it.

later -1

If the Movement box is any indication, the singles and B-sides won't be on the second disc. My suspicion (and hope) is that those will all appear on a deluxe Substance box.

Possible inclusion: Demos Two Peel sessions The Christmas flexi Prime 5-8-6 Possibly an alternate single mix or two

Generally uncirculated/unheard material

I'm far more curious about the two DVDs!

Following the template established by the Movement set, the first disc will only be the album itself. Also, no tracks already remastered and rereleased will feature, which rules out Confusion 7" and Thieves 7". Blue Monday, Confusion and Thieves mixes and B-sides from original 12 inches will only feature on reissued vinyl singles and digital equivalents.

Hoping 7 inch edit of Lonesome Tonight will be included somewhere, as it's a nice edit, but given Hurt 7 inch edit (another nice edit) wasn't in Movement set I'm guessing not. Hope these both get released digitally someday.

Best guess is 2nd disc will be more demos and outakes rather than exhaustive (and tedious) retreading of all the different mixes. Which I think is the way it should be. A set like this needs much more than just digital remasters of stuff collectors already have on vinyl. Christ, I would still like to retain a few obscure edits and mixes in my vinyl collection that never, ever make it to digital, as many were bloody hard to track down!

I have to say, so far I like the way they're reissuing stuff in multiple formats: albums, outakes and DVDs in boxed sets; previously released 12 inches rereleased on vinyl and digital. A nice combination, but just wish they'd also reissue the 7" versions digitally too.

Agreed. I’m loving the format of the sets.

I was initially disappointed that the singles / mixes weren’t in the Movement set, but what we did get... Wow!

The bonus CD was just great. Both the WW and Cargo demos were stunning.

And the DVD was the obvious highlight.

More of the same and I’ll be very happy. I do kind of wish that Video 5-8-6 is included though. It’s too damn good to be missed off.

Here’s hoping for that ‘Substance’ Definitive Edition to ‘round up’ all those ‘missing’ tracks.

50 Pound Note wrote:

I'm far more curious about the two DVDs!

Crikey yeah, had somehow missed that it’s 2 DVDs, not 1.

Yep! 😁

Incredible. We may be talking about 5+ hours of good stuff.

Anybody have any information that they can share about the release date of the PC&L box and accompanying singles?

Those October / November dates are looking less and less likely by the day. 😞

When I'm With You, Milan 82. Fuck the flexi, and fuck Vid586. I played it last wankend and I want my 22 minutes back.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: When I'm With You, Milan 82. Fuck the flexi, and fuck Vid586. I played it last wankend and I want my 22 minutes back.

This? Seems to be 11 minutes long. You played it twice before feeling fleeced of your time?

I think Michael’s referring to Video 5-8-6.

I bloody love that track and listen to all 22 mins fairly regularly. An awesome piece of experimentation. However much I still love the band, I can’t imagine them trying something as bonkers as that anymore.

perspexorange wrote: However much I still love the band, I can’t imagine them trying something as bonkers as that anymore.

To be fair, that was done for a gallery exhibit. The Peter Saville Show Soundtrack from 2003 runs over 30 minutes.

Granted. But I think there’s quite a difference between the two pieces. The latter is less experimental and much more ambient ‘filler’. All in my humble opinion, of course.

Also, Soundtrack was 16 years ago. Seems like only a few years ago to me.

I guess the closest ‘modern’ thing along these lines might be this ‘4:33’ track. But hardly the band breaking new ground.

perspexorange wrote: I think Michael’s referring to Video 5-8-6.

Yes. The flexi tracks and Vomit586 aren't really appropriate, unless they have a CD part 786543 for the beyond-obsessives. Some people were bemoaning 586's being left off 'Singles', but could you really sit through this in the midst of the early clutch of 45s? i'd be hitting 'Skip' every time... And the flexi was just a gimmick if you'd turned up on the night - great to own if you're a colllector, but no musical value at all.

...I liked it. But I agree it drags on after the 5th minute. I think it's the sound quality that makes it hard to listen.

Also, what was the source that said a PCL box set was coming out in November? Seems odd that you'd put out another $100 box set in a span of 6 months.

Wax wrote: Also, what was the source that said a PCL box set was coming out in November? Seems odd that you'd put out another $100 box set in a span of 6 months.

Two per year isn't bad. Did Led Zep drop them three at a time?

A few months back someone found a listing for four 12" singles and a box, tentatively in November. It's all speculations, but Johnny James would know.

Wax wrote: ...I liked it. But I agree it drags on after the 5th minute. I think it's the sound quality that makes it hard to listen.

Also, what was the source that said a PCL box set was coming out in November? Seems odd that you'd put out another $100 box set in a span of 6 months.

Kind of agree. But then they did put out the expensive MIF Live box set just a few months after the Movement box set. Felt they were pushing it a bit doing that. Well yes, fans didn’t have to buy the £50 ish ( or was it £60 ish ?) vinyl edition of the box , they could have just bought the £10 CD version but still.

Fotzepolitic wrote: Kind of agree. But then they did put out the expensive MIF Live box set just a few months after the Movement box set. Felt they were pushing it a bit doing that. Well yes, fans didn’t have to buy the £50 ish ( or was it £60 ish ?) vinyl edition of the box , they could have just bought the £10 CD version but still.

It's worth pointing out these are being done by two different labels. They're currently signed to Mute, and So It Goes is a Mute release. The back catalog is being handled by Warners.

Well, no one forces you to buy anything. With 53225807523 rehashes, I'd like to meet someone who's still a completist. Actually, I wouldn't.

50 Pound Note wrote:

A few months back someone found a listing for four 12" singles and a box, tentatively in November. It's all speculations, but Johnny James would know.

Someone on the Steve Hoffman forums claims that Kevin Cummins showed him a mockup of the artwork in June, and confirmed it was scheduled for November but has since been delayed