Mapping the (hopefully!) forthcoming Definitive Editions... Part 1 - PC&L

Oh and I was listening to the remastered vinyl on my Pro-Ject 2 turntable with Ortofon OM 20 stylus through Cambridge Audio Alva Duo pre-amp on Panasonic SC-PMX92 hi-fi. Cartridge alignment reset and corrected recently and anti-skate and weight checked. Oh and on Sony WH-Ch510 Bluetooth headphones ( not top of the range phones I know but they’re pretty good)I know those Hoffman forum types are particular about such stuff. They’d probably rip me to shreds about my sound set up.Oh well.

Do the remastered 12” come with download codes? I don’t have a turntable but love the mastering on the boxed sets.

The Hierophant wrote: Do the remastered 12” come with download codes? I don’t have a turntable but love the mastering on the boxed sets.

There's CD quality downloads of the remastered singles at Qobuz.

The remastered vinyl sounds really good to me. No noise at all silent until the music kicks in. You can definitely pick up more sounds than any other version I have. Really pleased with the remaster my favourite album sounding better than ever

Fotz wrote: I know those Hoffman forum types are particular about such stuff. They’d probably rip me to shreds about my sound set up.Oh well.

Opinions are like assholes...

Does it sound good to you? Then screw those guys.

50poundnote wrote:

Fotz wrote: I know those Hoffman forum types are particular about such stuff. They’d probably rip me to shreds about my sound set up.Oh well.

Opinions are like a**holes...

Does it sound good to you? Then screw those guys.

i'm on those forums, and all the reviews have been overall positive.

maybe you should actually read what people say, before assuming its bad.

sure people are picky about equipment, but so what. like you said,if you like it who cares.

later -1

negative1 wrote:

50poundnote wrote:

Fotz wrote: I know those Hoffman forum types are particular about such stuff. They’d probably rip me to shreds about my sound set up.Oh well.

Opinions are like a**holes...

Does it sound good to you? Then screw those guys.

i'm on those forums, and all the reviews have been overall positive.

maybe you should actually read what people say, before assuming its bad.

sure people are picky about equipment, but so what. like you said,if you like it who cares.

later -1

Well it was me that was having a go at the Hoffman forum, not £50 so don’t have a go at him. I’d never looked at that forum before until the other day. I did see one post with a link to soundforms or something for The Village on the remaster and someone commented that Frank had butchered it. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

To be the fair though, the Hoffman forum might be helpful to me in answering questions about vinyl remasters in general and hi fi equipment/set up etc. I’ve got a bit wary recently of buying vinyl reissues of albums that, I suspect , are just mastered from a CD rather than the original studio tapes. The Hoffman forum may be able answer some queries I have.

Fotz wrote:

negative1 wrote:

50poundnote wrote:

Fotz wrote: I know those Hoffman forum types are particular about such stuff. They’d probably rip me to shreds about my sound set up.Oh well.

Opinions are like a**holes...

Does it sound good to you? Then screw those guys.

i'm on those forums, and all the reviews have been overall positive.

maybe you should actually read what people say, before assuming its bad.

sure people are picky about equipment, but so what. like you said,if you like it who cares.

later -1

Well it was me that was having a go at the Hoffman forum, not £50 so don’t have a go at him. I’d never looked at that forum before until the other day. I did see one post with a link to soundforms or something for The Village on the remaster and someone commented that Frank had butchered it. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

To be the fair though, the Hoffman forum might be helpful to me in answering questions about vinyl remasters in general and hi fi equipment/set up etc. I’ve got a bit wary recently of buying vinyl reissues of albums that, I suspect , are just mastered from a CD rather than the original studio tapes. The Hoffman forum may be able answer some queries I have.

i am not an audiophile.

but yes, asking questions there, might require a flame-resistant suit, as things can get very heated.

that's why i tend to avoid those kinds of things. but if you're interested, there are some very helpful people too.

later -1

Can’t find it now but thought someone had mentioned on here the latest edition of Record Collector. Anyway I spotted a copy the other day and bought it. Article and interview and selected 80s discography and value of selection of vinyl. Appears to be a BBC New Order in concert edition that is worth £300. I guess this is the Glastonbury 87 that was released in 92 so technically shouldn’t belong with a selection of 80s releases. A BBC transcription thing. “New Order In Concert 422” is the title. Edition includes a bag, 2 page insert and um..a letter. Not clear what concert it is though really. I mean, I’m assuming it’s a collectable edition of the Glastonbury 87 CD but not sure.

Gatefold Substance edition the only other one listed at a relatively high value £100 compared to others in the list .

Not much else to report from the article really other than I learnt the cascading riff on BLT was created on a Fairlight they hired for the recording session.Crikey, how much did those Fairlights cost if they could still only afford to hire one at that stage of their career? Or was it not worth actually buying one if they could just hire it for a few days or weeks?

Fotz wrote: Can’t find it now but thought someone had mentioned on here the latest edition of Record Collector. Anyway I spotted a copy the other day and bought it. Article and interview and selected 80s discography and value of selection of vinyl. Appears to be a BBC New Order in concert edition that is worth £300. I guess this is the Glastonbury 87 that was released in 92 so technically shouldn’t belong with a selection of 80s releases. A BBC transcription thing. “New Order In Concert 422” is the title. Edition includes a bag, 2 page insert and um..a letter. Not clear what concert it is though really. I mean, I’m assuming it’s a collectable edition of the Glastonbury 87 CD but not sure.

Gatefold Substance edition the only other one listed at a relatively high value £100 compared to others in the list .

Not much else to report from the article really other than I learnt the cascading riff on BLT was created on a Fairlight they hired for the recording session.Crikey, how much did those Fairlights cost if they could still only afford to hire one at that stage of their career? Or was it not worth actually buying one if they could just hire it for a few days or weeks?

https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-In-Concert-422/release/2032143

Fotz wrote: Can’t find it now but thought someone had mentioned on here the latest edition of Record Collector.

NO Social Media thread (me).

Fotz wrote: Can’t find it now but thought someone had mentioned on here the latest edition of Record Collector. Anyway I spotted a copy the other day and bought it. Article and interview and selected 80s discography and value of selection of vinyl. Appears to be a BBC New Order in concert edition that is worth £300. I guess this is the Glastonbury 87 that was released in 92 so technically shouldn’t belong with a selection of 80s releases. A BBC transcription thing. “New Order In Concert 422” is the title. Edition includes a bag, 2 page insert and um..a letter. Not clear what concert it is though really. I mean, I’m assuming it’s a collectable edition of the Glastonbury 87 CD but not sure.

I guess the rarity value is because it contains a different track selection to that which came out on the official Live In Concert release

But now I'm slightly confused, as I had the original radio broadcast on tape and knew it well, so snapped up the LP when it came out a few years later. I don't remember the tracklist of what was broadcast being so different to what was released. Were there different versions broadcast I wonder?

OK, so the following tracks were played at the gig:

Elegia (x) (2) Touched By The Hand Of God (t) (1) Temptation (t) (1, 3) True Faith (t) (1, 3) Your Silent Face (t) (1) Every Little Counts (t) (1, 3) Ceremony (x) (3) Bizarre Love Triangle (t) (1, 3) Sub-Culture (x) (3) Sunrise (x) (3) The Perfect Kiss (t) (1, 2, 3) Age Of Consent (t) (1, 3) Sister Ray (t) (1)

(t) transmitted by the BBC in 1987; (x) not transmitted in 1987 by the BBC. 'Ceremony' and 'Sunrise' were subsequently broadcast by NHK (Japanese radio) on 18/02/88, along with 6 other tracks (hosted by Richard Skinner). 'Sub-Culture' and 'Sunrise; were transmitted by KITS San Francisco in 1990 (I think), along with 4 other tracks. 'Elegia' was, as far as I can ascertain, never transmitted. The recording on 'Retro' was apparently sourced from an audience taping.

(1) released on the Windsong LP; (2) released on 'Retro'; (3) released on 'In Concert-422' promo.

Edited, as per Fotz' recollections.

I missed the 17/10/87 broadcast on BBC Radio 1 but got hold of a cassette of it a month or so after- the 1992 CD release is exactly the same as was broadcast.

Fotz wrote: I missed the 17/10/87 broadcast on BBC Radio 1 but got hold of a cassette of it a month or so after- the 1992 CD release is exactly the same as was broadcast.

Ah! I think the boot I was looking at was actually from the US broadcast. My bad. I'll amend my post above.

Edit - amended.

It does look the BBC have since broadcast 'Ceremony', 'Sub-Culture' and 'Sunrise, at various points, on 6Music, along with the 'standard' tracks. I've got a couple of 'Gideon Coe' shows with these tracks on.

^ Correct, Gideon Coe broadcasted a couple or more previously unaired tracks on one of his evening shows a few years back , maybe around 2014 or something. Been a fan of his evening show for quite a few years, he’s a great broadcaster and does great shows and plays some fab rare stuff.

Was watching Kilkenny again yesterday.

I know I’ve said it before, but what a wonderful gig. To be able to see the band so thoroughly enjoying themselves is just magnificent. It scotches the myth that they were a miserable band back in the day.

Great to finally see the video to such a noteworthy gig.

These box sets have been supreme. Makes the mouth water thinking about what treasures ‘Low Life’ and the others might hold.

^ Yep, I reckon they were in a playful mood before they took to the stage that night and then the energetic Irish crowd fired them up into party mood even more.

Right at the end, you can see Hooky and Steve laughing at each other. They seem to be absolutely loving it.

And with Bernard introducing the band at the same time, it makes for a very special moment.

It was great on audio only. To be able to see this finally, makes it all the more special.

Got the power corruption and lies boxset today.

Was an even trade for the 'music complete' boxset, which i had an extra copy of.

So, I love the book, and the amazing pictures in it. I have heard all the audio tracks, and i like the mini die sleeve and artwork.

Will be watching both the DVD's, and converting them into audio tracks shortly.

Great package, and i'm glad i didn't have to wait to long to get it. normally i would have waited another year or so.

later -1

Finally here...

Mr. Disco wrote: Finally here...

Enjoy!

Mr. Disco wrote: Finally here...

Enjoy!

It's awesome...

Wow, hearing a lot of guitar detail i'd never picked up on before on Lonesome Tonight on the remastered Thieves Like Us 12" .Bought a pair of Sony WH-1000XM3 headphones recently (and £240 lighter for it no less, ouch.Had to buy some top of the range noise cancelling headphones though to cancel out noisy neighbours) and playing the remastered Lonesome Tonight on a Pro-Ject Essential 2 turntable with an Ortofon OM20 stylus through a Cambridge Audio Alva Duo pre-amp on the new headphones the sound is very, VERY detailed and crystal clear.Crikey, there's so much guitar detail on the remastered version i'd never heard in 36+ years.Also hearing one or two things on the remastered Confusion 12" i'd never picked up on before.

On the remastered Blue Monday 12" on the new headphones, Bernard's vocal sounds ever so slightly teeny weeny bit to the left.Not massively so but enough to notice.Definitely not the settings on the headphones or anything else as all other tracks i play the vocal is dead centre.Anybody else finding or noticing that?

Fotz wrote: Wow, hearing a lot of guitar detail i'd never picked up on before on Lonesome Tonight on the remastered Thieves Like Us 12" .Bought a pair of Sony WH-1000XM3 headphones recently (and £240 lighter for it no less, ouch.Had to buy some top of the range noise cancelling headphones though to cancel out noisy neighbours) and playing the remastered Lonesome Tonight on a Pro-Ject Essential 2 turntable with an Ortofon OM20 stylus through a Cambridge Audio Alva Duo pre-amp on the new headphones the sound is very, VERY detailed and crystal clear.Crikey, there's so much guitar detail on the remastered version i'd never heard in 36+ years.Also hearing one or two things on the remastered Confusion 12" i'd never picked up on before.

On the remastered Blue Monday 12" on the new headphones, Bernard's vocal sounds ever so slightly teeny weeny bit to the left.Not massively so but enough to notice.Definitely not the settings on the headphones or anything else as all other tracks i play the vocal is dead centre.Anybody else finding or noticing that?

i plan on getting on the remastered 12 inches for this, and the other 4 too all in one go someday.

do the digital downloads have the same issue? if someone looks at the waveforms, they could see if there is some panning going on with the vocals.

if and when i ever get them, i could check.

later -1

^ May try and do a vinyl rip when get time of the Blue Monday remastered 12” and send it to you , negzy , see if you can confirm with your waveform palavahh if the vocal is indeed slightly to the left channel. Haven’t tried the comparing the digital version yet

negative1 wrote:

Fotz wrote:

On the remastered Blue Monday 12" on the new headphones, Bernard's vocal sounds ever so slightly teeny weeny bit to the left.Not massively so but enough to notice.Definitely not the settings on the headphones or anything else as all other tracks i play the vocal is dead centre.Anybody else finding or noticing that?

i plan on getting on the remastered 12 inches for this, and the other 4 too all in one go someday.

do the digital downloads have the same issue? if someone looks at the waveforms, they could see if there is some panning going on with the vocals.

if and when i ever get them, i could check.

later -1

Occurred to me today it could be another issue and not an issue with the 2020 remaster.

On the back of my pre-amp there's a knob for panelling the volume to the left or to the right as the listener requires depending on where they are sitting in relation to the speakers.So i first checked that hadn't been nudged by me at some point.It hadn't and was dead centre , you can feel it slot in when you turn it to the dead centre.So it wasn't that.Next i wondered if there was an issue with the stylus and/or cartridge on my turntable.Checked all the micro connections into the back of the cartridge and they were all in tight.

I played the digital version of BM 2020 remaster on Amazon Music and there was maybe a very slight emphasis of the vocal to the left channel but very hard to say for definite, certainly not as clear as on the vinyl.But when i played BM on the 2005 singles CD the vocal is dead centre, no problems whatsoever.I don't know what to conclude.I can rip the vinyl of my 2020 remastered BM and send it to you to see if your waveform stuff can confirm or dispel any problem.Though my vinyl capture software is quite primitive and any issue may not show up in your waveform software? I'd be really interested to solve this mystery.If nothing else but to see if there's a problem with my turntable (though not finding an issue with other vinyl) or pre amp or even my ears.

Edit: oh hang on, if there is an issue with my stylus and/or cartridge or something else and not the BM remaster, the vinyl capture will just record the sound it recieves.With a vinyl capture you may pick up that the vocal is to the left but it wouldn't be conclusive if the problem is with the remaster or my equipment.Bugger.

Edit 2: Unless, unless... i ripped 2 different records?? If i also ripped say, my original 12" of Blue Monday too.If the left channel emphasis showed up on the 2020 remaster but not on the original then you could conclude the fault is with the remaster not my equipment?

Haven't played the box set myself, only the digital download and got both DVDs ripped to a hard drive, but people seem to be noticing some other audio (and graphic) issues on Discogs: https://www.discogs.com/release/16000948-Power-Corruption-And-Lies/reviews#c1628893

I thought I noticed a slight slowing of Your Silent Face on the CD too (starts to sound a touch flat before the fade out) - not sure if also present on the vinyl though. Was it always there even in '83?

Guess it's always a risk with this remastering business - a couple of the Pet Shop Boys Further Listenings have slightly different versions of tracks. Guess the ultimate "definitives" of the main albums will always be those first released!

Mr Discography wrote: I thought I noticed a slight slowing of Your Silent Face on the CD too (starts to sound a touch flat before the fade out) - not sure if also present on the vinyl though. Was it always there even in '83?

Gave YSF on the CD a spin . Doesn’t appear to slow down towards the end on my copy, or at least not that I could tell. Still, weird that other people are reporting that it does . A strange one, that.