New Order Oddities (or New Orderties, if you like)

perspexorange wrote: Yep - it's very perplexing. Maybe they were going to do a video, and just never got around to it.

I've never really been sure of the story for these remixes. Was there an intention for the band to properly release 'True Faith' again in 2001, and the idea got nixed (after the remixes had been commissioned)? If so, that could be the reason why a video edit was made, to promote the release on MTV / VH1 etc.

Anyway, I've struck those two off my list - I reckon they're bound to be the same as the standard two mixes.

Anyone heard the 'My Fear Of Dub Mix'? Any good?

i remember it being very similar to the other mixes, didn't stand out.

again, one of these days, i'll find the file or re-digitize it.

later -1

50poundnote wrote:

It was done to raise their profile in the US, where their last official release had been The Best Of 6 years earlier. Get people dancing to them, thinking "oh hey, New Order" before rolling out the single for Crystal and the campaign for Get Ready.

I wouldn't be too bothered by the variations of names - they're just promo. Not intended for the public. Maybe the label thought they'd put together a video for it, but by that stage MTV had almost stopped playing videos and YouTube didn't exist. It would've ended up being one of those promo VHS mix tapes sent to clubs. It probably would've been re-edited footage from the original 1987 video, with bad early '00s effects added. Not worth the time or effort if DJs and record pools weren't jumping for the promo.

I never once heard it in a club. A friend who worked the counter at one of the local record stores saved their promo copy and gave it to me.

Don't forget, this is a business. They were on a major label. The band probably had very little input, apart from approving the mixes they liked. The label would've chosen the song, the remixers - pretty much everything. Most UK bands tend to shrug it off and let the Americans do whatever they think is best for the market over here.

Thanks. That certainly makes sense.

It just seems odd that they didn't officially release it, even as a limited edition. The only things that made it out (not counting that bonus track on 'Retro') were the various promos and they're rarer than rocking horse poo .

Seems a reasonable amount of cash to invest for very few people to ever get to hear the mixes.

perspexorange wrote: Seems a reasonable amount of cash to invest for very few people to ever get to hear the mixes.

I'm friends with Rich Morel. Trust me, he and Philip were not paid a lot. At best Warners would have considered New Order a niche band after 6 years without a release and 8 years after their last studio album. Republic only sold 382,000 copies here. The Best Of probably sold half of that. They only hit the Top 40 twice (True Faith, Regret), and they only toured a handful of dates in major markets. They had one new song on a soundtrack to a film that got panned, and it didn't gain any traction at radio.

I know we all have a fairly rosy view of the Factory years, but Warner Brothers is not Factory.

All totaled the label probably spent less that $2,000 for the mixes, pressing up vinyl and CD-Rs, and sending them out. That's nothing to a major label, and would have been considered part of the marketing budget for Get Ready.

Remember, Philip Steir had been a member of Consolidated, which was very much an underground band. Rich wasn't even in a band at that point, and had only done a few remixes (Pet Shop Boys, Deep Dish). We're not talking Oakenfold, Weatherall, Osborne, or whatever crap DJs were the highest paid remixers in 2001.

What I'm saying is, you need to be more cynical. :)

We approach the band as fans and can't understand why everything they release isn't revered and given the full Saville treatment, etc.

The label approaches the band as a commodity, and considers most of their output to be disposable because it's not competing with top 10 U.S. albums of 2001:

Beatles - 1 (over 2 million sales in 5 weeks) Shaggy Backstreet Boys Various Artists - Now 5 Limp Bizkit Linkin Park Staind Enya 'N Sync Nelly

Jesus Christ, popular music sucked.

Is the Saville Soundtrack considered an oddity? Possibly my favourite instrumental (heresy, I know)

50poundnote wrote:

We approach the band as fans and can't understand why everything they release isn't revered and given the full Saville treatment, etc.

You're right, of course.

I just think the 'release' (such as it was) was a bit half-arsed and it just makes you think, 'why bother?'.

I doubt more than a few hundred people have ever heard any of these mixes. And probably only just a handful back in 2001.

Mr. Disco wrote: Is the Saville Soundtrack considered an oddity? Possibly my favourite instrumental (heresy, I know)

Definitely an oddity!!

Heresy, indeed! Elegia all the way!

perspexorange wrote: I just think the 'release' (such as it was) was a bit half-arsed and it just makes you think, 'why bother?'.

It wasn't intended for you. It wasn't a 'release.' It was promotional material, plain and simple.

It was a gamble in the American marketplace to see if they could goose the band's sales and to get people thinking about them before Get Ready was released.

50poundnote wrote:

It wasn't intended for you. It wasn't a 'release.' It was promotional material, plain and simple.

It was a gamble in the American marketplace to see if they could goose the band's sales and to get people thinking about them before Get Ready was released.

I get that it wasn't for me.

But why such limited numbers? Surely, if so few people heard the mixes, there was very little chance that anyone was going to be 'thinking about' New Order.

perspexorange wrote: But why such limited numbers? Surely, if so few people heard the mixes, there was very little chance that anyone was going to be 'thinking about' New Order.

IT WASN'T FOR THE PUBLIC. It was for DJs, who might play it, or might play something else like Blue Monday instead. You get the influencers thinking about New Order, then they play them in a club, or on college radio, or maybe one of their "hits" in select radio markets.

It wasn't a proper single release. I'm sure Warners had no expectation that lots of people were going to hear mixes the label paid a couple hundred bucks for.

It's advertising. It's awareness. It's something slightly more interesting than a print ad. For the U.S. market only.

You're overthinking it.

50poundnote wrote:

IT WASN'T FOR THE PUBLIC.

...

You're overthinking it.

Crikey!

I'm not sure if this is passive aggressive, or just plain aggressive.

We're all friends here.

As I stated in my previous post, I realised that the release 'wasn't for me' (i.e. the general public). My point was that there seemed to be so few of these out there, that it didn't seem particularly effective - whatever the company's intention.

But it's fine. You answered my question with something that makes sense and I appreciate that. Thank you.

Dug out that Tonpress 7” of BM/TLU. Not that rare I guess. Picked it up at one of those record fairs at Birmingham NEC I think in late 90s. Don’t recall paying much for it. On the back of sleeve it has 73/93. The 73 i guess is a nod to BM’s FAC 73 but if so then the 93 should really be 103 as in TLU’s FAC 103? As it’s the full length of both songs the sound is bloody awful squashed on to a 7”.

Fotz wrote: Dug out that Tonpress 7” of BM/TLU. Not that rare I guess. Picked it up at one of those record fairs at Birmingham NEC I think in late 90s. Don’t recall paying much for it. On the back of sleeve it has 73/93. The 73 i guess is a nod to BM’s FAC 73 but if so then the 93 should really be 103 as in TLU’s FAC 103? As it’s the full length of both songs the sound is bloody awful squashed on to a 7”.

has anyone managed to track one of these down, its rarer than the japanese 7 inch, which i've seen several times on ebay:

PL 1988 7 inch

( Tonpress DS-25-A )[Promo Only 60 copies] 5 : 05 Blue Monday

later -1

first up,

the 3 cardsleeve canadian cd-singles (with more mixes than the US/UK/Japan versions).

there are 4 slimline ones, i only have 2 of those..

https://www.discogs.com/NewOrder-Blue-Monday-1988/release/553448

NewOrder* ?– Blue Monday 1988 Label: Factory ?– 870 354-2 Format: CD, EP, Card Sleeve Country: Canada Released: 1988 Genre: Electronic, Pop Style: Electro, Synth-pop

Tracklist 1 Blue Monday 1988 (12" Mix) 7:10 2 Blue Monday 1988 (Dub Version) 7:21 3 Touched By The Hand Of God (Single Version) 3:46 4 Blue Monday 1988 (Single Version) 4:12 5 Touched By The Hand Of God (Dub Version) 5:32 Total Time: 28:01

https://www.discogs.com/Neworder-Fine-Time/release/344067

Neworder* ?– Fine Time Label: Factory ?– 827 277-2 Format: CD, EP, Card Sleeve Country: Canada Released: 1988 Genre: Electronic Style: House, Synth-pop

TracklistShow Credits 1 Fine Time 3:08 2 Don't Do It 4:30 3 Fine Line 4:43 4 Fine Time (Silk Mix) 6:15 5 Fine Time (Messed Around Mix) 4:35 Total Time: 23:11

https://www.discogs.com/Neworder-Roundround/release/4015

Neworder* ?– Round&round Label: Factory ?– 874 079-2 Format: CD, Single, Card Sleeve Country: Canada Released: 1989 Genre: Electronic, Pop Style: House, Synth-pop

TracklistShow Credits 1 Round & Round 3:54 2 Round & Round (Extended Version) 6:39 3 Best And Marsh 4:32 4 Round & Round (The Club Mix) 7:07 5 Round & Round (The Detroit Mix) 6:29 Total Time: 28:41

later -1

ok, one last post today for catching up on various things:

we got from brussels with love - kevin hewick new order haystack, touch sampler - video 586 edit uk and us electroset - how does it feel, and like a girl compilations

will post more info about the first two later on.

later -1

negative1 wrote:

has anyone managed to track one of these down, its rarer than the japanese 7 inch, which i've seen several times on ebay:

PL 1988 7 inch

( Tonpress DS-25-A )[Promo Only 60 copies] 5 : 05 Blue Monday

later -1

Never got hold of one of those, no.Very very VERY rare, apparently.Anyone know if the edit is sections cut out or simply the start and/or end cut off?

Mr. Disco wrote: Is the Saville Soundtrack considered an oddity? Possibly my favourite instrumental (heresy, I know)

I love it too.

I recall waking up early to call the Exhibiting museum to order my copies (I gave one to a friend). It was originally supposed to be limited to 3000 copies, but don't quote me on that. I have heard that there was little to no input from Bernard. Primarily composed by Hooky and Steve (while Bernard was busy working on lyrics for other tracks, perhaps?).

And that makes Stephen the only New Order member to be present in every studio recording session for all the releases. Even the one with the session drummer hired by Stephen Hague

I read that Video 586 was mainly Bernard and Steve too. If they used a session musician on Refucklic It was a lucky escape.

from brussels with love: haystack with kevin hewick

and here's what i think it would have sounded like with just new order:

later -1

I first heard Hayprick on the Demos, Outtakes and Rarities cassette and I didn't know what the fuck it was. There were also Prime 586 one and two, Homage and Ode to Joy / Rocking Carol. I thought it was a female vocalist so a track by The Inadequates. About a year later I read what it was in the Ideal for Living book and then the Record Collector article. Kids these days have it easy.

negative1 wrote:

https://www.discogs.com/NewOrder-Blue-Monday-1988/release/553448

NewOrder* ?– Blue Monday 1988 Label: Factory ?– 870 354-2 Format: CD, EP, Card Sleeve Country: Canada Released: 1988 Genre: Electronic, Pop Style: Electro, Synth-pop

Tracklist 1 Blue Monday 1988 (12" Mix) 7:10 2 Blue Monday 1988 (Dub Version) 7:21 3 Touched By The Hand Of God (Single Version) 3:46 4 Blue Monday 1988 (Single Version) 4:12 5 Touched By The Hand Of God (Dub Version) 5:32 Total Time: 28:01

later -1

Ooh i do actually have that Canadian one of BM with the cardboard sleeve.No idea where or when i obtained it.Must have been a long long time ago.

And yes add me to the fans of the Saville Soundtrack CD.Great to put on and chill out to for half an hour.

Fotz wrote:

negative1 wrote:

https://www.discogs.com/NewOrder-Blue-Monday-1988/release/553448

NewOrder* ?– Blue Monday 1988 Label: Factory ?– 870 354-2 Format: CD, EP, Card Sleeve Country: Canada Released: 1988 Genre: Electronic, Pop Style: Electro, Synth-pop

Tracklist 1 Blue Monday 1988 (12" Mix) 7:10 2 Blue Monday 1988 (Dub Version) 7:21 3 Touched By The Hand Of God (Single Version) 3:46 4 Blue Monday 1988 (Single Version) 4:12 5 Touched By The Hand Of God (Dub Version) 5:32 Total Time: 28:01

later -1

Ooh i do actually have that Canadian one of BM with the cardboard sleeve.No idea where or when i obtained it.Must have been a long long time ago.

And yes add me to the fans of the Saville Soundtrack CD.Great to put on and chill out to for half an hour.

well, it has been over 32 years since it came out.

i like the peter saville soundtrack, haven't heard it in awhile though.

ordered a copy of the internet, maybe from their site, or ebay.

later -1

here's the touch sampler:

video 586 was on different media:

here's one version from the fac video:

here's an edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2isX4J0e6g

this cd version is another extract.

Various ?– Touch. Sampler Label: Touch ?– T_ZERO_2 Format: CD, Sampler Country: UK Released: 1997 Genre: Electronic, Non-Music, Folk, World, & Country Style:

Abstract, Synth-pop, Ambient, Electro, Field Recording, Experimental

TracklistShow Credits 1 –Unknown Artist Please Leave A Message 0:13 2 –Polyphony Group Of Lapharda Legenda E Tanës 3:53 3 –Unknown Artist Air Traffic Control 0:37 4 –Cold Warrior Yellow Square 7:02 5 –The Hafler Trio Replacement 1:27 6 –Philip Jeck Nelson Surfs 6:28 7 –Unknown Artist Runaway Train 3:39 8 –Unknown Artist The Education System 0:06

9 –New Order Video 586 6:57

10 –Igusti Ngurah Togog & His Son Genggong Frog Sound 1:35 11 –Mark Van Hoen Channel Of Light 5:30 12 –Ryoji Ikeda Headphonics 0/0 3:11 13 –Mother Tongue The Voice And The Ear 2:08 14 –Scala Hold Me Down 3:51 15 –John Duncan Priority 2:52 16 –Disinformation Loran-C VLF 4:17 17 –Unknown Artist Couldn't This Lengthy Therapy... ? 0:05 18 –Anthony Phillips Danza Cuccaracha 5:44 19 –Chris Watson Guanacaste 2:13 20 –Chris Watson The Musiara Gate 1:55 21 –Folk Orchestra Of Albania Dite E Zeze Ish Kone E Honja 2:54 22 –Daren Seymour & Mark Van Hoen Omnipotent 6:45 Total Time: 1:13:22

parts 1, and 2 are on the feature mist Cassette. https://www.discogs.com/Various-Feature-Mist/release/308267

Various ?– Feature Mist Label: Touch ?– T1 Format: Cassette, Compilation, C60 Country: UK Released: 01 Dec 1982 Genre: Electronic, Non-Music Style: Modern Classical, Ambient, Spoken Word, Synth-pop

TracklistShow Credits A1 –Vladimir Mayakovsky Final Verse, "Last Poem"

A2 –New Order Video 586 - 1

A3 –Soliman Gamil The New Nubia A4 –Robert Wyatt From An Interview A5 –The Death And Beauty Foundation Song Of The Houseproud Ghost A6 –Hanns Eisler & Vladimir Mayakovsky Subbotnik A7 –Eric Random Meets The Bedlamites In Cassette Conference B1 –Simple Minds King Is White B2 –Tuxedomoon Shelved Dreams B3 –Dmitri Shostakovich Waltz From "The Bedbug"

B4 –New Order Video 586 - 2

B5 –Flesh Hesitate

Credits Compilation Producer – Andrew McKenzie, Garry Mouat, Jon Wozencroft

Notes First edition (6000 copies) wrapped in a plastic bag with a A5 32pp booklet featured the work of Keith Breeden, Neville Brody, Panny Charrington, Malcolm Garrett, Hipgnosis and Ian Wright, with manifestos by The Death And Beauty Foundation and The Temple Ov Psychick Youth (written by David Tibet). Also published were The Rozztox Manifesto (by Gary Panter / The Residents), "Vladimir Mayakovsky" by Alan Reid, Norrie MacLaren's "Video Column", "The New Nubia", and Your Guide To Naming A Pop Group, "Nominal Success" by Shirley Ellis.

A cassette-only edition was remastered and re-released in March 1986.

later -1

can't edit my last post, it detects it as spam, the video link for the edit was a mistake. ooops.

later -1

I've got Video 5-8-6 on the 'Touch Sampler', the 'Twice As Nice' CD, the 'Be Music Presents New Order CD' and the standalone 12"/CD from Touch. The only thing I haven't got is the original 'Featuremist' tape (I do have a rip of this though).

I absolutely love the Video 5-8-6 track. Especially the full length 22 minute version. It's bonkers and brilliant.

Just for the sake of completeness, the track also appeared as a bonus track on the download version of the recent PC&L box-set (pity it wasn't included in the physical set).

Also, another version of the video, clocking in at 09:38, was a hidden 'Easter Egg' on DVD2 of the same set. I tweeted Steve about this and he said "It is from some primitive apple 2e video experiments. I did with Malcolm Whitehead in 1982 to a very early version of 586. Aka video 586. I don’t think it was shown at the opening of the hac. June 82 gig possibly?"

I haven't completely compared this video to the one on 'A Factory Video' but, IIRC, it seemed 'different' to me. Perhaps this is something that you could have a look at negative1, as one your comparisons.

Whilst I think about it, another variant to the track (which, again, I guess, is edited from the full length version) is the 2:38 Haçienda Construction footage that appears at the start of the 'A Factory Outing' video.

So, to summarise the variants of Video 5-8-6:

On audio format:

Full length version (22:07) (from 'Video 5-8-6' 12" & CD single, 'New Order Presents Be Music' CD & 'Power, Corruption and Lies: Definitive Edition' box set (digital download only)) Part One (7:27) (from 'Featuremist cassette) Part Three (14:12) (from 'Featuremist cassette) Part Two (7:02) (from "Touch. Sampler' CD) Edit (6:13) (from 'Twice As Nice' CD)

On video format: "Primitive 5-8-6" (5:49) (from 'A Factory Video' VHS) "Haçienda Construction Footage" (2:38) (from 'A Factory Outing' VHS) Easter Egg (09:38) (from 'Power, Corruption and Lies: Definitive Edition' box set, DVD2)

As regards 'From Brussels With Love', I picked up the LTM reissue a few years back. I also treated myself to the over-sized 'special edition' from Les Disques Du Crépuscule that was released late last year, as a Christmas present to myself:

https://www.discogs.com/Various-From-Brussels-With-Love/release/16032422

However, I'm embarrassed to say that, with everything going on in my life / in the world at present, I've haven't even unwrapped it yet, let alone listened to it.

Like you, Michael, I first heard 'Haystack' on a bootleg cassette that I bought from a record fair in about 1990. I did know what it was (I think I read about it in Mark Johnson's book) but didn't really know what to make of it at the time. I've come to love the track over the years. A very interesting curio.

Apparently, Hewick recorded another track ('A Piece Of Fate') with New Order, but this is apparently 'lost'. Pretty annoying. Hopefully it turns up at some point. You'd think it would be lurking on a tape somewhere. I don't even think Hewick has a copy. I remember him asking when the Hannett tapes were found by Julia Adamson whether they contained this track, but I'm not sure he ever found out.

perspexorange wrote:

So, to summarise the variants of Video 5-8-6:

On audio format:

Full length version (22:07) (from 'Video 5-8-6' 12" & CD single, 'New Order Presents Be Music' CD & 'Power, Corruption and Lies: Definitive Edition' box set (digital download only)) Part One (7:27) (from 'Featuremist cassette) Part Three (14:12) (from 'Featuremist cassette) Part Two (7:02) (from "Touch. Sampler' CD) Edit (6:13) (from 'Twice As Nice' CD)

.

So, part1 + part2 + part3 doesn't match Full-length

😈

Jcp7 wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

So, to summarise the variants of Video 5-8-6:

On audio format:

Full length version (22:07) (from 'Video 5-8-6' 12" & CD single, 'New Order Presents Be Music' CD & 'Power, Corruption and Lies: Definitive Edition' box set (digital download only)) Part One (7:27) (from 'Featuremist cassette) Part Three (14:12) (from 'Featuremist cassette) Part Two (7:02) (from "Touch. Sampler' CD) Edit (6:13) (from 'Twice As Nice' CD)

.

So, part1 + part2 + part3 doesn't match Full-length

😈

Yeah, I know. Weird eh?

There's been some debate over the years about this.

Here's the listing for the Sampler at Touch33.net which states:

"New Order: The missing middle section of the 23 minutes song of this well-known band. Recorded in 1982 in Manchester."

https://touch33.net/catalogue/t\_zero\_2-touch-sampler-2.html

So, by their description, it is the middle part (i.e. part 2), but I guess there might be some overlap (i.e. it contains the end of part 1 and/or the beginning of part 3 also). I've never tried to compare the versions. Again, negative1 probably knows more about this than I.

Edit: In fact, looking at the times, parts 1 & 3 add up to about the length of the full-length version themselves (although I would say that my '14:12' includes some talking at the end of the mp3, so not truly accurate). So, who knows? It's all a bit confusing. Would be interested to see a comparison between all the versions (if this is practical) to see where the versions start and end.

perspexorange wrote:

Apparently, Hewick recorded another track ('A Piece Of Fate') with New Order, but this is apparently 'lost'. Pretty annoying. Hopefully it turns up at some point. You'd think it would be lurking on a tape somewhere. I don't even think Hewick has a copy. I remember him asking when the Hannett tapes were found by Julia Adamson whether they contained this track, but I'm not sure he ever found out.

Just thinking about it, does Johnny James know if a copy of this track is located in the New Order archives?