New Order Oddities (or New Orderties, if you like)

perspexorange wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

Apparently, Hewick recorded another track ('A Piece Of Fate') with New Order, but this is apparently 'lost'. Pretty annoying. Hopefully it turns up at some point. You'd think it would be lurking on a tape somewhere. I don't even think Hewick has a copy. I remember him asking when the Hannett tapes were found by Julia Adamson whether they contained this track, but I'm not sure he ever found out.

Just thinking about it, does Johnny James know if a copy of this track is located in the New Order archives?

Nope, nor Haystack master. They probably were both kept by Anthony Wilson rather than Rob (being for a Kevin Hewick release rather than a New Order one).

Johnny James wrote:

Nope, nor Haystack master. They probably were both kept by Anthony Wilson rather than Rob (being for a Kevin Hewick release rather than a New Order one).

Damn! That's annoying. Would love to hear it!

Thanks for the confirmation though! Much appreciated.

perspexorange wrote:

Like you, Michael, I first heard 'Haystack' on a bootleg cassette that I bought from a record fair in about 1990. I did know what it was (I think I read about it in Mark Johnson's book) but didn't really know what to make of it at the time. I've come to love the track over the years. A very interesting curio.

Apparently, Hewick recorded another track ('A Piece Of Fate') with New Order, but this is apparently 'lost'. Pretty annoying. Hopefully it turns up at some point. You'd think it would be lurking on a tape somewhere. I don't even think Hewick has a copy. I remember him asking when the Hannett tapes were found by Julia Adamson whether they contained this track, but I'm not sure he ever found out.

It was on https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Demos-Outakes-Rarities/release/7935833 and I bought it (in 1992) in a different cover, plus parts two and three. They got less and less interesting - in fact the only thing I really 'needed' off the others was Let's Go / Nothing For Me. Given the high profile of New Order, the number of official and unofficial compilations and the joys of Youtube, I'm sure that the other collaboration would've surfaced by now. I had the same hunch about the Pet Shop Boys' True Faith mix - they're both big names and it's a popular track, so if it existed it'd be easy to find. Links tended to go straight to Shit Poppyboner's remix. Probably the Confusion arose cos of Shep's Pets link or cos the Pets sometimes DJed and have strong links to NO.

perspexorange wrote:

Johnny James wrote:

Nope, nor Haystack master. They probably were both kept by Anthony Wilson rather than Rob (being for a Kevin Hewick release rather than a New Order one).

Damn! That's annoying. Would love to hear it!

Thanks for the confirmation though! Much appreciated.

If I had to guess, I would think that the unfinished track was probably never mixed, so therefore only existed on the multitrack tape for the session.

Johnny James wrote:

If I had to guess, I would think that the unfinished track was probably never mixed, so therefore only existed on the multitrack tape for the session.

I think I read somewhere that the session fell to pieces (Bernard playing Buzzcocks riffs and eventually walking out, Hannett not playing ball etc.), so it certainly seems possible that the track was never properly finished.

A real shame.

Hmmm - just found this on JD Central. This is probably where I read it:

"around june 1980 (just over a month after ian curtis' suicide), hewick was booked to go into graveyard studios (famous for a certain ratio's marvellous "graveyard and the ballroom" cassette) to record 5 tracks for the planned double 10" (which later became the aforementioned "factory quartet"). the night before, tony wilson phoned hewick and suggested that "the jds" go into the studio to back him. wilson told hewick that the jds wanted to carry on as a band and playing someone else's material would ease their transition back into recording.no one ever told hewick that this might have been a try-out session for a lead singer of the soon-to-be new order. much later, when terry christian suggested the idea on a bbc radio derby interview in 1983, hewick was hurt enough to be unable to go to a new order gig for quite some time afterwards. "well you're a better singer than any of them aren't you?" said christian. the rumour would appear to be substantiated in the liner notes to "from brussels with love", although hewick maintains it was not the case.to quote kevin: "i was picked up at piccadilly station by bernard and stephen in a really old car. they were really friendly, good humoured and i soon felt at ease - for a while--- forgive my memory but i seem to recall it was only on arriving at graveyard that i was told that martin hannett was going to produce the session! at last i met peter hook who privately i held in most fanlike awe - he soon came over as the one who took the lead with things, who pulled things together into shape. we worked on two songs "haystack" and "a piece of fate". it was decided to do "haystack" first."the resulting song, "haystack," a stalwart of hewick's live set, appears on the "from brussels with love" compilation on les disques du crepuscule (cd, cassette, and lp formats). the recording suffers from a complete and utter lack of production. kevin indicates that this was the result of hannett showing up halfway through the session, pronouncing that the assembled group of musicians (hewick, bernard, peter, and steven) sounded like "fairport convention" [ouch!] and curling up under the mixing desk for a bit of a sleep. hewick was told hannett was exhausted from working through the night on a john cooper clarke recording session. he remembers hannett leaving before the end and doubts whether hannett actually twiddled and knobs on this recording at all!the assembled "backing" band told the engineer at the beginning of the session that they'd decided to call themselves "new order". when hewick pointed out that rob asheton (former member of the stooges) had formed a band called the new order, a clearly annoyed bernard shot back "only you would know that."the songthe song is inspired by a scene with jack lemmon and lee remick in "the days of wine and roses", with loads of heroin addiction imagery (which i can't even believe i missed in favour of a sexual interpretation!). hook's bass rumbles along, bernard knocks away at the polyphonic synths, stevie bangs the drums, and hewick delivers a langorously lounge-y vocal performance and plays guitar. he doesn't sound nearly as nervous as he must've been, although the beauty of his voice fails to show through.the "other" songthe assembled band worked on a second song that has never seen the light of day. "a piece of fate" was the track - later reworked by hewick into a song called "no miracle" in 1993. hewick, who was utterly in awe of the backing band assembled for his humble session, pointed out to bernard that the two note guitar solo he was playing was from buzzcock's "boredom" and was stunned when bernard, threw his gibson sg down on the floor and stormed out. this so unnerved hewick that he was unable to complete any other songs for the session. wilson, still wanting to feature the young kevin on a factory record, replaced the session with the live tracks on the factory quartet. all in all, not an auspicious recording for the young lad's first "professional" recording session, but a story for the grandkids!"

I've never heard that 'No Miracle' track. I can't seem to find the track on streaming services. If I find it, I'll post here. Might be interesting to hear.

back in 2003, i posted these to ceremony:

from new order discography:FeaturemistDecember 1982 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------    CS: UK 1982 (Touch T01)                Prime 5-8-6 (part 1)  6:50                Prime 5-8-6 (part 2)<-3 13:29Touch Sampler 2December 1996 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------    CD: UK 1996 (Touch T_ZERO_2)           6:57 Prime 5-8-6 (part 2)worldinmotion.net---------------------TOUCH FEATURE MISTDec 4, 1982  UK 1982 ( Touchtapes T1)[with magazine]                         Prime 5.8.6. (pt 1)                        Prime 5.8.6. (pt 2) <-3 instrumental versions/jam based on 5.8.6. Cassette 61 minutes ---------------TOUCH SAMPLERJanuary 1997  UK 1997 ( Touch T_ZERO_2 )         6 : 57     Video 586 Various artists. Much ahead of its time, a 23 minute track recorded for the opening of the Hacienda in Manchester in 1982, and a blueprint for "Blue Monday": it was published in 2 parts on the first Touch release, Feature Mist. This is the missing middle section. neworderonline-------------------UK Cassette (Touch T01) Track Song Band Version Time Notes Audio Video 1.  586 New Order Prime 5-8-6 (Part 1)  ?:??   13:29     2.  586 New Order Prime 5-8-6 (Part 3)  6:57        UK CD (Touch T_ZERO_2) Track Song Band Version Time Notes Audio Video 9.  586 New Order Prime 5-8-6 (Part 3)  6:57  Labeled "Video 586.3"      Release Notes From Touch's website: "For the first time on CD - New Order's Video 586, a blue print for 'Blue Monday'" ----A Factory Outing (Compilation)                                      [Dec 1983]   VHS:	UK 1983	(Factory FACT 71)		Prime 5-8-6  6:36FACT    71      VARIOUS                 A Factory Outing             Oct 83    VHS: UK 1983	(Factory FACT 71V) [PAL/NTSC]  BETA: UK 1983	(Factory FACT 71B) 	2:45	{Hacienda Construction Footage} *	6:37	NEW ORDER - Your Silent Face 	3:09	JAMES - Stutter 	3:03	STOCKHOLM MONSTERS - Life's Two Faces 	4:36	52nd STREET - The Rapp	3:43	A CERTAIN RATIO - Back to the Start 	3:08	A CERTAIN RATIO - Showcase 	4:05	SWAMP CHILDREN - You've Got Me Beat 	4:29	DURUTTI COLUMN - The Beggar  	5:17	THE WAKE - Uniform	4:48	SECTION 25 - Warhead	5:47	QUANDO QUANGO - Go Exciting	3:06	{Hacienda Venue Footage} ***  Instrumental primitive of NEW ORDER - 5-8-6 (Prime 5-8-6) used for    intro Hacienda construction footage.** Instrumental mix of 52nd STREET - Cool As Ice used for outro   Hacienda venue footage.- All tracks live at The Hacienda Club, Manchester.- The packaging says in big numerals "51" / "71", indicating the previous  point (see also FAC 51).       - Later releases on IKON with sticker stating:  "Special Notice: Ikon regrets that The Wake and Quando Quango    soundtracks have had to be removed due to insistance of   Island Music Ltd."Click here to see a picture of FACT 71

later -1

I didn’t hear that Haystack song till sometime around the mid 2000s.But yeah, I really like it.

Cheers -1. I had a feeling that you posted this info before.

Just as a matter of interest, have you ever tried to sync up the different versions to deftermine which bits of the 23 minute track have been used in each particular edit?

can't post text, sorry its spam:

ceremony posts:

later -1

Fotz wrote: I didn’t hear that Haystack song till sometime around the mid 2000s.But yeah, I really like it.

It's a fine little song, and I really like Hewick's vocals.

I find myself singing it, without intention, quite frequently.

negative1 wrote: can't post text, sorry its spam:

ceremony posts:

later -1

Ah, cool!

I'll give them a look.

It might be worth revisiting, now we have a new edit (the 'easter egg' on the recent DVD).

ceremony post references:

https://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/digests/v2003.n017 https://www.monkey.org/~laps/ceremony/digests/v2003.n020

later -1

perspexorange wrote: I've got Video 5-8-6 on the 'Touch Sampler', the 'Twice As Nice' CD, the 'Be Music Presents New Order CD' and the standalone 12"/CD from Touch. The only thing I haven't got is the original 'Featuremist' tape (I do have a rip of this though).

discogs shows 24 copies starting at US$8.00, a lot cheaper than what i got it for.

later -1

Is this the only official release of the Rough Mix of Confusion on CD? It got edited on the original edition of Singles back in 2005 (another unique version, I suppose?)

I also purchased the 2020 remaster of the 12"... are these supposed to come with some sort of digital download? I've failed to see any indication...

Mr. Disco wrote:

I also purchased the 2020 remaster of the 12"... are these supposed to come with some sort of digital download? I've failed to see any indication...

Sadly, there were no download codes for these or any of the Movement related singles. I ended up buying FLACs as well as the 12”s.

Bit annoying. It would’ve been nice to include a download code.

Are there official FLACs for sale? Where?

I bought the 12" hoping for a download like Be a Rebel, just came to mind the Factory releases are not being reissued by Mute Records....

there are so many remixes of 'touched by the hand of God', its hard to track them,

1. the original salvation versions
2. the arthur baker remixes
3. the 7 inches and edits
4. the best of biff and memphis
5. the hand of bias mix

and probably more...

so the German cd: https://www.discogs.com/Various-Salvation-Original-Soundtrack/release/417642

Various ‎– Salvation! (Original Soundtrack) Label: Interphon ‎– IPCD 2022-36 Format: CD, Album Country: Europe Released: 1988 Genre: Electronic, Rock, Stage & Screen Style: Soundtrack, Country Rock, Downtempo, Synth-pop, Ambient Tracklist 1 –New Order Salvation Theme 2:14 2 –Jumpin' Jesus You Can't Blackmail Jesus 4:26 3 –Cabaret Voltaire Twanky Party 4:17 4 –New Order Touched By The Hand Of God 5:02 5 –Dominique* Play The Beat 3:24 6 –The Hood Nightmare 1:54 7 –New Order Let's Go 3:44 8 –The Hood Salvation! Have You Said Your Prayers Today 4:10 9 –Arthur Baker Come On 2:45 10 –New Order Sputnik 2:31 11 –Cabaret Voltaire Jesus Saves 4:02 12 –New Order Skullcrusher 2:52 13 –Dominique* Destroy All Evil 3:33

Bonus Tracks: 14 –New Order Touched By The Hand Of God (Remix Version) 8:00 15 –The Hood Salvation! 6:13 16 –The Hood Salvation! (Nitro Dub) 12:11 Total Time: 1:11:18

and japanese CD of salvation had this full 8 minute version of the remix: https://www.discogs.com/Various-Salvation-Original-Soundtrack/release/886400

Various ‎– Salvation! (Original Soundtrack) Label: Les Disques Du Crépuscule ‎– VDP-1345 Format: CD, Album, Remastered Country: Japan Released: 21 Jun 1988 Genre: Electronic, Rock Style: Alternative Rock, Art Rock, Downtempo, Synth-pop, Indie Rock TracklistShow Credits 1 –New Order Salvation Theme 2:15 2 –Jumpin' Jesus You Can't Blackmail Jesus 4:27 3 –Cabaret Voltaire Twanky Party 4:18 4 –New Order Touched By The Hand Of God 5:02 5 –Dominique* Play The Beat 3:24 6 –The Hood Nightmare 1:57 7 –New Order Let's Go 3:44 8 –The Hood Salvation! Have You Said Your Prayers Today 4:11 9 –Arthur Baker Come On 2:45 10 –New Order Sputnik 2:31 11 –Cabaret Voltaire Jesus Saves 4:02 12 –New Order Skullcrusher 2:52 13 –Dominique* Destroy All Evil 3:34

14 –New Order Touched By The Hand Of God (12") 8:01 Total Time: 53:03

as good as the 12 inch mix and dub are, this is superior for me:

wish it had gotten a limited vinyl release.

later -1

Isn't it just Touched by the Hand of Dub with an extra 2 and half minutes or so at the beginning?

Mr. Disco wrote: Are there official FLACs for sale? Where?

I got mine here:

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/search?q=New+order&i=boutique

I have that Salvation CD.The version of TBTHOG is quite radically different , kind of a raw and live drum sound for a start.

The 2020 Confusion remaster 12" did not come with a download code, none of the 2020 remastered 12" 's came with codes.

Touched is one of my favourite singles ever, and I love the rawer version on the soundtrack. That said, I only have the dutch CD. Never heard about the bonus track on the japanese release for many years.

I have both UK and JP CD5. Confusion (1987 dub) is still exclusive to the UK CD single, no?

The BIAS remix is also pretty good

I have the Saville sleeve version of 'Salvation' (Canadian?) on CD, plus the European variant with the standard (terrible) film poster cover, but with the 8:00 exclusive remix.

I got the former, of all places, in 'Our Price' in Stafford. I've no idea what it was doing there. Stafford isn't the biggest of towns and having a Canadian pressing there was just odd. I can't even remember if it was in the 'New Order' section or the soundtrack section. I just remember being very surprised by it, especially considering I didn't even know that Saville had done a cover for it. This would've been 1993ish.

I've also got the cassette. I can pretty much pinpoint exactly when I got this; around November 1990. I was going to Manchester on the train one day and I picked up a copy of 'Record Collector' to read during my journey. This had part 2 of a New Order article (I'd bought part 1 the previous month). I remember reading about the 'Salvation!' soundtrack for the first time there. I then made it my mission to get a copy that day.

I managed to track down the tape downstairs in HMV on Market Street, Manchester. Sadly, though, there was something wrong with side 2 of the tape. It had a really annoying buzz throughout; something that wasn't on side 1. I imagine that this must've been caused during the transfer and wonder if other tapes are blighted like mine.

As regards the TBTHOG release itself, I definitely have the CD, but am pretty sure I have the 7" & 12" lurking somewhere in storage.
Apart from occasional items that I'd purchase on a whim, I used to be quite specific in what I'd buy in respect of New Order. Initially, as I was always short of money, I just used to look for 'gaps' in my remix collection.

For instance, if I already had the remixes contained on the 12" (e.g. on 'Substance'), I wouldn't buy the 12" (or not initially). For example, I would've bought the 12" remix of 'True Faith', but wouldn't've bought the standard 12" (as both tracks were on 'Substance'). Consequently, I have virtually every 7" of New Order but am missing some 12"s.

In the case of 'TBTHOG', I'd have bought the CD (best quality format), the 7" (for the two 'edits') and the 12" (for the full-length version of the b-side).

'Touched By The Hand Of God' seems to get a bit of a bad rap with most New Order fans I know. Much like 'Confusion' and 'State Of The Nation', it seems like quite a few fans dislike it.

Personally, I love it. Seen as if I got into the band when 'True Faith' was released, 'Touched...' seemed like more of that goodness that I had enjoyed on 'True Faith'.

I had that Record Mirror two parter as well. My rule was all vinyl with other formats only if they had exclusives, but as I've said, Iost interest with London bullshit, practical issues and the Spice takeover. I got Salvation in a second hand shop in Cambridge in 1993. I remember cos I'd had one of my worst ever drinking binges the night before and it kind of made up for the hangover. Far prefer Baker's Touched, but I went through that on Denis' thread. Spice Girls forum. Some threads may be sticky.

On the Salvation album, apart from the New Order tracks and the two Cabaret Voltaire tracks the rest of the music is possibly the worst music I’ve ever heard in my life. Utter garbage. As is the film from what I remember, I think I found it on YouTube once and tried to watch it and got maybe halfway through and just had enough.

Fotz wrote: On the Salvation album, apart from the New Order tracks and the two Cabaret Voltaire tracks the rest of the music is possibly the worst music I’ve ever heard in my life. Utter garbage. As is the film from what I remember, I think I found it on YouTube once and tried to watch it and got maybe halfway through and just had enough.

Thanks to a member on these forums, I was finally able to see the film 2-3 years ago. It is as bad as everyone says. Avoid!

I'm grateful to the user that helped me out though. At least I can say I've seen it.

By the way, I've often thought that, at least at one stage, 'Salvation Theme' and 'Sputnik' were different parts of the same piece of longer music (similar to the 'Peter Saville Soundtrack'). If I remember correctly, if you watch the film, certain bits of the soundtrack itself seems to contain elements of both tracks.

I reckon that, at some point, the band (or even the film makers / record label) chopped it into pieces and called it by two separate names. Maybe to pad out the soundtrack; make it look like the band had recorded more pieces for the film.

As possible evidence of this theory, on those 'Salvation Demos' that have been doing the rounds for years, one of the two versions of 'Salvation Theme' on them was actually labelled up as 'Sputnik'. That could possibly denote that the two pieces may have been edited from a longer piece, or that they had interchangeable names. Could just be mislabelling though, as well, I guess.

I may be completely wrong here though. Just pure (and fun!) speculation on my part.

perspexorange wrote:

Fotz wrote: On the Salvation album, apart from the New Order tracks and the two Cabaret Voltaire tracks the rest of the music is possibly the worst music I’ve ever heard in my life. Utter garbage. As is the film from what I remember, I think I found it on YouTube once and tried to watch it and got maybe halfway through and just had enough.

Thanks to a member on these forums, I was finally able to see the film 2-3 years ago. It is as bad as everyone says. Avoid!

I'm grateful to the user that helped me out though. At least I can say I've seen it.

By the way, I've often thought that, at least at one stage, 'Salvation Theme' and 'Sputnik' were different parts of the same piece of longer music (similar to the 'Peter Saville Soundtrack'). If I remember correctly, if you watch the film, certain bits of the soundtrack itself seems to contain elements of both tracks.

I reckon that, at some point, the band (or even the film makers / record label) chopped it into pieces and called it by two separate names. Maybe to pad out the soundtrack; make it look like the band had recorded more pieces for the film.

As possible evidence of this theory, on those 'Salvation Demos' that have been doing the rounds for years, one of the two versions of 'Salvation Theme' on them was actually labelled up as 'Sputnik'. That could possibly denote that the two pieces may have been edited from a longer piece, or that they had interchangeable names. Could just be mislabelling though, as well, I guess.

I may be completely wrong here though. Just pure (and fun!) speculation on my part.

i enjoyed the film, but then again i like offbeat indie films and music, more than mainstream stuff.

later -1

negative1 wrote:

i enjoyed the film, but then again i like offbeat indie films and music, more than mainstream stuff.

later -1

Me too, but this film was just pretty bad, IMHO.

I will say though that I like Stephen McHattie, so that, and the soundtrack, was the silver lining to an otherwise dreary cloud.

I've also got this, which combines TBTHOG with BM1988.

https://www.discogs.com/NewOrder-Blue-Monday-1988/release/191215

I'm not sure of my reasoning for buying this. I'm thinking that I might have bought it for the BM1988 Dub, which I possibly didn't have at the time (I got it later, after having bought both the 12" promo and the CDV).

perspexorange wrote: I've also got this, which combines TBTHOG with BM1988.

https://www.discogs.com/NewOrder-Blue-Monday-1988/release/191215

I'm not sure of my reasoning for buying this. I'm thinking that I might have bought it for the BM1988 Dub, which I possibly didn't have at the time (I got it later, after having bought both the 12" promo and the CDV).

Yes I have that BM Qwest 12” with TBTHOG and TBTHOD on the b side as well. But, isn’t Blue Monday 1988 Dub just the same as Beach Buggy? Haven’t played it in years but might have to dig it out if there’s a difference

Fotz wrote: Yes I have that BM Qwest 12” with TBTHOG and TBTHOD on the b side as well. But, isn’t Blue Monday 1988 Dub just the same as Beach Buggy? Haven’t played it in years but might have to dig it out if there’s a difference

Not the same.