Definitive Edition or deluxe reissue? Substance

steinomite wrote: I personally don't see the point of the reproduction poster. I still have a mint copy of the original poster with the FACT number printed on it.

-Mike

well, considering the small fortune posters go for sometimes, i'm glad to have it.

it was bonus with the bundle, i'm sure they added to the price, but it wouldn't have been that much for it.

later | | || | | | | ne gative 1

Finally sorted with my final copies of the red/blue vinyl (replacement to the scuffed one received today from Piccadilly Records), and the 4 CD from Amazon (their second attempt to ship had the same packaging, but didn't get squished all along the edges like last week's one - although there is a tiny crease on the top edge that I flattened out and can live with). Bit of a palaver, but glad to have both copies in good condition now, and look forward to giving the coloured vinly its first proper play later in the week.

Pash wrote:

2. It might be my disc 3, or my ears, but it sounds to me like the hi-hat on Bizarre Dub Triangle loses some presence, and its position in the stereo image, between 6.27 and 6.30. Anyone else notice this?

Just checked on Apple Music and I can hear the same issue on there, so that confirms it isn't just my disc...

Pash wrote:

Pash wrote:

2. It might be my disc 3, or my ears, but it sounds to me like the hi-hat on Bizarre Dub Triangle loses some presence, and its position in the stereo image, between 6.27 and 6.30. Anyone else notice this?

Just checked on Apple Music and I can hear the same issue on there, so that confirms it isn't just my disc...

Checked it out on headphones. Yes i think i know what you mean. Goes a bit wonky for a second or two.

50poundnote wrote: Hi Johnny,

Will the standard, full-length version of Shellshock appear anywhere? I mean the version from the Pretty In Pink soundtrack (licensed to A&M) - not the single edit, or the extended mixes.

Thanks!

Somehow I had it in my head that the Pretty In Pink version was the same as the Substance edit - but just realised (thanks to your post here) that it's not

The songography post on here says

shellshock (pretty in pink) 6:40 v, cd, cs shellshock (substance) 6:28 v, cd, cs

but that's not right either? The Pretty In Pink version is 6:04 so maybe a typo?

Or am I going mad?

Fotz wrote:

Pash wrote:

Pash wrote:

2. It might be my disc 3, or my ears, but it sounds to me like the hi-hat on Bizarre Dub Triangle loses some presence, and its position in the stereo image, between 6.27 and 6.30. Anyone else notice this?

Just checked on Apple Music and I can hear the same issue on there, so that confirms it isn't just my disc...

Checked it out on headphones. Yes i think i know what you mean. Goes a bit wonky for a second or two.

I just had a listen too, and heard it. Don't think it's just the hi-hat - there's a slight dulling of the high frequencies across everything for a second or two. Wonder if it was damage to the mater tape? The only previous version released in CD I'm aware of was the Canadian CD single (released in 1994, I think). That doesn't have the same audio glitch.

A shame it's there. But doubt I'll ever notice it unless on decent headphones.

GotBlueEyes wrote:

50poundnote wrote: Hi Johnny,

Will the standard, full-length version of Shellshock appear anywhere? I mean the version from the Pretty In Pink soundtrack (licensed to A&M) - not the single edit, or the extended mixes.

Thanks!

Somehow I had it in my head that the Pretty In Pink version was the same as the Substance edit - but just realised (thanks to your post here) that it's not

The songography post on here says

shellshock (pretty in pink) 6:40 v, cd, cs shellshock (substance) 6:28 v, cd, cs

but that's not right either? The Pretty In Pink version is 6:04 so maybe a typo?

Or am I going mad?

yeah, probably a typo, i'll double check it.

later || | | || | | ne gative 1

GotBlueEyes wrote:

50poundnote wrote: Hi Johnny,

Will the standard, full-length version of Shellshock appear anywhere? I mean the version from the Pretty In Pink soundtrack (licensed to A&M) - not the single edit, or the extended mixes.

Thanks!

Somehow I had it in my head that the Pretty In Pink version was the same as the Substance edit - but just realised (thanks to your post here) that it's not

The songography post on here says

shellshock (pretty in pink) 6:40 v, cd, cs shellshock (substance) 6:28 v, cd, cs

but that's not right either? The Pretty In Pink version is 6:04 so maybe a typo?

Or am I going mad?

Unfortunately, this version has never been remastered, the sound on my Pretty In Pink OST CD seems awful nowadays. I feel the same when hearing the Salvation OST CD.

Pretty In Pink version of Shellshock is definitely 6:05.

It's my favourite version, retaining the 'extended' bits and not cutting out the extra lyrics. Also, unlike the 12" version, there's thankfully not as much repetition (how often does the chorus get repeated on the 12"?!).

perspexorange wrote: Pretty In Pink version of Shellshock is definitely 6:05.

It's my favourite version, retaining the 'extended' bits and not cutting out the extra lyrics. Also, unlike the 12" version, there's thankfully not as much repetition (how often does the chorus get repeated on the 12"?!).

I think I counted 13 repeats of the final chorus on the 12" mix. Way too repetitious.

Substance edit is my favourite - the first version I ever heard, and prefer the cold ending to Pretty In Pink's fade out. Don't really miss the extra lyrics, but was a nice surprise when I bought the Pretty In Pink soundtrack, then went on to get the 12".

Regarding the "patch" on Shellshock, on the original audio he clearly sings "The smell of cocaine gets me high" at 2min30s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrQMz\_AXCO8

No trace of drug mentions on the re-released audio:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8Zl3F\_2yaU

Delighted to finally have a decent pressing of Substance. Both the black and the coloured vinyl have no surface noise, or endless pops and clicks like the original pressing did. Had numerous copies of that over the years, never found a clean quiet one. The remastering is pretty good. My ears are happy enough. My only niggle is, what eejit decided True Faith remix should be 33rpm?? Unforgivable! …….. or perhaps I just have the runt of the litter. It still sounds good but less detailed than the original. Really looking forward to the Brotherhood box. …….. hope I can hang in there long enough. 🤞

Also, any sign of Electronic’s Raise The Pressure getting a repress on vinyl? My original is great, and despite over 30 mins per side sounds fab. It’s gagging on a double vinyl reissue though. 🤞

xox

steinomite wrote:

50poundnote wrote: I ordered directly from NO's webstore because I wanted the t-shirt and poster, too. My order has not yet shipped - they rarely get the packages to the customer on release date, but their packaging is good.

My experiences with the US instance of the New Order store have been nothing but disastrous. They ship the Definitive Edition box sets in simply the box issued by the distributor, which isn't intended for shipment on its own. All 12" sized vinyl has arrived with bent corners. And the times that I purposely ordered shirts with vinyl to hopefully add some padding to the vinyl, much to my dismay, they ended up shipping the vinyl and shirts separately. Then working with Warners/Rhino customer services is abysmal. They take forever to respond, won't allow replacements, just returns. Then when they re-ship something, it's in the EXACT SAME packaging as before.

And while I loathe Amazon, the Definitive Edition box sets that they have shipped me have all been double-packed (i.e., the distributor's box inside yet another box). So they have all arrived safely and were significantly cheaper.

The UK/Euro New Order Store is somewhat better, but everything ships from the island of Jersey and takes forever to make it to the States. Also, my mirrored sleeve edition of "The Perfect Kiss" arrived soaking wet. They ultimately replaced it, but not without a fight, plus having to wait another few months for the replacement to arrive.

So, unless it's an exclusive item, I have pretty much given up on the New Order Store.

-Mike

Unfortunately, I've had similar experiences with the US store. I placed an order for Unity Tour merch as soon as it went on sale, prior to the start of the tour. It was never delivered and showed to be on indefinite back order. In trying to come to a resolution, their customer service was very lacking. Ultimately I was able to get a refund after months of waiting. The UK/EURO store was able to fill my order (but at a significantly higher cost) almost immediately.

When the US store shipped my PC&L bundle, my mirror cover TPK 12" arrived bent on the corners. I didn't even try to get a replacement after my last experience with them.

I think the US store is doing much better about filling orders, because both the bundle, and the poster (separately) have shipped. Now let's see how fast I receive them!

Got my red/blue vinyl edition via Rough Trade yesterday and it's gorgeous.

Something interesting about the 'Hurt' 'Substance' edit... The 'Substance' edit cuts out 4:01 to 5:10 from the original 12" version. After the point at which the edit occurs in the original 'Substance' edit, the vocals for two bars have a delay/echo effect on them. The equivalent point from 5:10 in the original version, and from 4:01 in the new 'Substance' edit doesn't have that echo. This suggests that the original 'Substance' edit was made from an alternate mixdown, and that the new 'Substance' edit is actually the more authentic version, being an edit of the original 12" version.

Got my bundle in the mail today. Everything is in pristine condition - no bent corners.

Love the slipcase for the 4-disc set, and the open-sided slipcase for the cassettes.

I am VERY happy to confirm that The Perfect Kiss on the cassette is complete!

Mr Discography wrote: Something interesting about the 'Hurt' 'Substance' edit... The 'Substance' edit cuts out 4:01 to 5:10 from the original 12" version. After the point at which the edit occurs in the original 'Substance' edit, the vocals for two bars have a delay/echo effect on them. The equivalent point from 5:10 in the original version, and from 4:01 in the new 'Substance' edit doesn't have that echo. This suggests that the original 'Substance' edit was made from an alternate mixdown, and that the new 'Substance' edit is actually the more authentic version, being an edit of the original 12" version.

yeah, that's weird, listening to the original Substance edit and there are more differences in the reverb/delay treatment of vocals and drums at the 5:10 mark - where he sings "I'm quite determined" it has the same echo/delay as the lines after 4:01 and the drum break after that line also has immediate delay on it and "no more mistakes" has huge echo. On the 12"/New Substance edit the drum break doesn't get any effects until the 2nd snare beat and "no more mistakes" has no echo on it at all

I guess they compiled the edit in 1987 from the wrong master (similar to the mistake made with the IALP version?)

i've gotten my substance package today.

despite people complaints about crushed and damage.

there was nothing wrong, no issues.

everything came perfectly fine, now granted, this was from the US store.

so maybe overseas, or UK, or amazon doesn't pack as well

mine has some packing material, but there was a tshirt in there too.

i've already had everything in digital for a week or more now.

so no real use in opening any of these up. i did open up the colored vinyl though for display.

i'll get the poster later, and find a place for it.

later || || | || | ne gative 1

Spotted a difference on CD2. 'Murder' has the full 16 beats / 4 bars of drums before the guitars start - as heard on the 'Power, Corruption & Lies' Collector's Edition CD2 version. Whereas the original 'Substance' and 12" versions started on beat 2 of the second bar, having just 11 beats before the guitar kicks in. Funny thing here, is the 2020 digital remaster single re-release only had the 11 beats and stayed authentic to the original 12". Funny that thee 'Substance' CD2 remaster didn't also stick to that. Wonder if it was just an oversight, or if there was any reasoning behind it?

Some early pressings of Blue Monday were missing the first beat. I think it all comes down to an engineer cueing up the tape to the wrong spot.

I don't mind that the drum intro is complete on Substance (I had also noticed this), but remains true on the 12". I like the version on the PC&L 2-disc edition best, which includes a little tape squelch right at the start.

50poundnote wrote: Some early pressings of Blue Monday were missing the first beat. I think it all comes down to an engineer cueing up the tape to the wrong spot.

I don't mind that the drum intro is complete on Substance (I had also noticed this), but remains true on the 12". I like the version on the PC&L 2-disc edition best, which includes a little tape squelch right at the start.

I've never heard any of the 'Blue Monday' vinyl pressings with the missing beat(s) (my 12" is the same as the 'Substance' version), but there were 7 beats missing from the versions on 'Blue Monday 95', 'International', and the first version of 'Singles'. A very strange mistake, meaning the first beat of the track in these erroneous versions is actually the 4th and final beat of the second bar of the song.

Mr Discography wrote: I've never heard any of the 'Blue Monday' vinyl pressings with the missing beat(s)

Correction - first TWO beats. If you have Recycle, the version of Blue Monday there is missing the first two beats. I believe Bruce used the Canadian pressing FACX10, which is what started us on the Recycle project in the first place.

50poundnote wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: I've never heard any of the 'Blue Monday' vinyl pressings with the missing beat(s)

Correction - first TWO beats. If you have Recycle, the version of Blue Monday there is missing the first two beats. I believe Bruce used the Canadian pressing FACX10, which is what started us on the Recycle project in the first place.

Speaking of; Dead or Alive is getting their Recycle: TownsendMusic.store

Andy wrote: Speaking of; Dead or Alive is getting their Recycle: TownsendMusic.store

Holy crap! I'd love to have this, but I'm only interested in CDs 5-18.

50poundnote wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: I've never heard any of the 'Blue Monday' vinyl pressings with the missing beat(s)

Correction - first TWO beats. If you have Recycle, the version of Blue Monday there is missing the first two beats. I believe Bruce used the Canadian pressing FACX10, which is what started us on the Recycle project in the first place.

So that means those pressings start with the 8x 16th note fast bass beats then?

Mr Discography wrote: So that means those pressings start with the 8x 16th note fast bass beats then?

Yep!

I'm sure it must be the Nelson Mandela effect, but we used to listen to the Blue Monday 12" obsessively circa 1985/86 when we were round at a mates playing on his BBC Micro and I always remembered the distinct bass drum intro has having SIX single beats before the double-time beats. Like it was burned into my brain

Hence it was always confusing when I heard later digital versions that didn't have all the beats. However - it now transpires that there were only ever TWO single beats at the start and I'm losing my mind

GotBlueEyes wrote: I'm sure it must be the Nelson Mandela effect, but we used to listen to the Blue Monday 12" obsessively circa 1985/86 when we were round at a mates playing on his BBC Micro and I always remembered the distinct bass drum intro has having SIX single beats before the double-time beats.

I could swear I've heard a copy with six beats at the intro as well.

50poundnote wrote:

GotBlueEyes wrote: I'm sure it must be the Nelson Mandela effect, but we used to listen to the Blue Monday 12" obsessively circa 1985/86 when we were round at a mates playing on his BBC Micro and I always remembered the distinct bass drum intro has having SIX single beats before the double-time beats.

I could swear I've heard a copy with six beats at the intro as well.

AAAAARGH! Don't do this to me man! (heads to discogs to look for mid-80s pressings)