Movement

Just thought i'd share this with you...

I was in HMV in stockport yesterday doing some serious damage to my pay packet, and they had movement playing! this made my day, and congratulated the attendant on his fine taste.

However, the scallies over in the rap section pretending to be gangsters did not seem to impressed. obviously, this made it all the more sweeter.

brilliant :D what songs were on when you were in?

the first four, although i missed some of truth as i was upstairs buying a manics dvd...

I have Movement and the Taras Shevrenko concert playing in my Jag for the last two weeks. Some truly underappreciated songs on that tape. Denial, Chosen Time, ICB...Live I love Denial and Temptation. Makes you think that Barney, Peter and Steve just hung out in the studio jamming in those dark days after Ian's death. Also makes me think that all the early NO gigs were really experiments done for their own amusement and betterment and $$$ rather than to entertain their fans. Nothing more difficult than starting over with a set of all new songs written and sung by those that never wanted to sing, trying to make it on their own. They should have fallen completely on their faces. Please note how horrible Barney's vocals were on Ceremony--almost tone death, he does not even sound like English is his native tongue. Yet he fires it up for Chosen Time and Denial.

I remember the sounds of Dreams Never End blaring out of speakers outside a large sports shop near Oxford Circus. My mate and I stood outside singing along and playing air guitar, oblivious to passers by. This happened a couple of years after it's release

What a quality thing to hear playing in public. One of NO's top 3 albums. But don't say that too loud. The Technique worshippers might hear you....

Technique is a great album. No doubt about it. However, Movement excites me a bit more. It's not that i rate Movement higher than Technique but that transitional period produced some amazing songs. From 81-83/4, NewOrder were peaking creatively in my opinion. Ceremony, EGG, Procession, Temptation, Truth, Chosen Time, Turn the Heater On, Blue Monday...ground breaking and exciting. The later classics (Perfect Kiss, True Faith, Regret) are great songs (perhaps even easier to listen to) but not as innovative as the earlier material. They obviously improved techically by the time they recorded Low-Life but the experimental egde had faded.

current order of albums and EP's:

1)81/82 EP 2)Get Ready (premix tracklisting) LowLife Technique Peel Sessions Power Corruption and Lies Brotherhood Movement

Originally posted by Biznotic Love Trapezoid Technique is a great album. No doubt about it. However, Movement excites me a bit more. It's not that i rate Movement higher than Technique but that transitional period produced some amazing songs. From 81-83/4, NewOrder were peaking creatively in my opinion. Ceremony, EGG, Procession, Temptation, Truth, Chosen Time, Turn the Heater On, Blue Monday...ground breaking and exciting. The later classics (Perfect Kiss, True Faith, Regret) are great songs (perhaps even easier to listen to) but not as innovative as the earlier material. They obviously improved techically by the time they recorded Low-Life but the experimental egde had faded. current order of albums and EP's:1)81/82 EP2)Get Ready (premix tracklisting) LowLife Technique Peel Sessions Power Corruption and Lies Brotherhood Movement

I agree. That whole early period produced most of their best stuff, with a few notable exceptions. In my opinion, the more recent the album, the more skippable songs on it (although that isn't always true). My ranking (as of today) of the studio albums alone would have to go:

Movement Low Life PCL Brotherhood Get Ready Technique Republic

I always thought the production on Movement was awful - as if the band were trying to hide the fact they had a new singe : if you burn a CD with the Peel Session versions and Ceremony, IALP on it, it becomes much better.

yeah i agree with the point mark made. ive always felt movement to be a pretty grimy yet really listenable debut, its ackwardness is perhaps its selling point to me, thats what makes it interesting, plus there are some badly produced gems on there. it made power corruption and lies possible.

I find the only glaring production issue with Movement is with the vocals. Perhaps it is because they could not sing! Techinally the band was at a peak. Steve's drumming is outstanding. Peter and Barney free up their guitars for some near monster jams--kinda a precursor of the "small dicks, big songs" endings that would dominate their future work. Overall, its a moody and dark album with moments of energy and release. They really need to bring some of those songs back into their set.

But then again, when you average 11 songs per gig, its hard to include many older songs.

If I thought Movement was New Order's best album, I would not be a fan.

movement is great im sick to death of this movement bashing to say your not a new order fan if movement is your fav album is fuking stupid

I never understood why Republic always ends up at the bottom of every list. It's definitely one of my top 5 albums. Anyone care to explain?

Movement is an essential buy, if only because it marks the transistion from Joy Division to New Order. I think its faults as an album (production quality, Barney not quite comfortable singing, etc) keep it from being GREAT, but it's certainly a good place to start once you've gotten all the JD stuff and want to explore NO.

Why is Republic rated so low..... There are some very good and outstanding songs on that album--Regret, Everybody,Everywhere come to mind immediatley. But compared to their other albums, Republic is lacking. I like the first 6 tunes then I start hitting the "next" button until I get to Special or Avalanche. For me it lacks the spark that all the other albums have. And Hooky is missing for much of the album. There is not anything real exciting--no inovations like we heard on PCL, no deep soul searching techno like in Low Life, no acoustic materpieces and techy brillance of Brotherhood, it pales compared to Technique in terms of dancability (although the remixes on the singles can be good) and, what the hell, Get Ready is more of a rocking bastard with more of a NO sound than Republic.

Which brings me to this statement, Republic is the least NO sounding album of all, sounding more like a Electronic album. And that is not saying that it is a bad album, just not good enough to knock the others off their perch.

maybe movement was made to be listened to loud?

Originally posted by Ian Pillar movement is greatim sick to death of this movement bashingto say your not a new order fan if movement is your fav album is fuking stupid

But that's not what I wrote, is it. The point I was conveying was Movement isn't my favourite and if I felt it was their best effort, I probably wouldn't still be following them today.

I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings. I just tried to imagine for a moment that I preferred it to Unknown Pleasures, Closer, PC&L, Low-Life, Brotherhood and Technique and it just didn't work.

Originally posted by Andy > Originally posted by Ian Pillar> movement is great> im sick to death of this movement bashing> to say your not a new order fan if movement is > your fav album is fuking stupid

But that's not what I wrote, is it. The point I was conveying was Movement isn't my favourite and if I felt it was their best effort, I probably wouldn't still be following them today.

I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings. I just tried to imagine for a moment that I preferred it to Unknown Pleasures, Closer, PC&L, Low-Life, Brotherhood and Technique and it just didn't work. Correct me if I misunderstand, but it puzzles me a bit why you would list Unknown Pleasures and especially Closer as being such highlights in the band's career, but you say that Movement is not comparable in quality to those albums. Movement seems to me to be much more closely linked, in terms of overall sound, to Joy Division than the later albums you mentioned.

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope > Originally posted by Andy> > > > Originally posted by Ian Pillar> > movement is great> > im sick to death of this movement bashing> > to say your not a new order fan if movement is > > your fav album is fuking stupid>

But that's not what I wrote, is it. The point I was conveying was Movement isn't my favourite and if I felt it was their best effort, I probably wouldn't still be following them today.

I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings. I just tried to imagine for a moment that I preferred it to Unknown Pleasures, Closer, PC&L, Low-Life, Brotherhood and Technique and it just didn't work. Correct me if I misunderstand, but it puzzles me a bit why you would list Unknown Pleasures and especially Closer as being such highlights in the band's career, but you say that Movement is not comparable in quality to those albums. Movement seems to me to be much more closely linked, in terms of overall sound, to Joy Division than the later albums you mentioned.

I'm referring to something I favour, not something that merely sounds similar.

Example: There are a lot of bands that have tried to sound like Joy Division but that doesn't mean they've approached their quality.

Do you like Movement more than Closer? Just curious.

Originally posted by Andy > Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope> > > > Originally posted by Andy> > > > > > > Originally posted by Ian Pillar> > > movement is great> > > im sick to death of this movement bashing> > > to say your not a new order fan if movement is > > > your fav album is fuking stupid> > >

But that's not what I wrote, is it. The point I was conveying was Movement isn't my favourite and if I felt it was their best effort, I probably wouldn't still be following them today.

I didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings. I just tried to imagine for a moment that I preferred it to Unknown Pleasures, Closer, PC&L, Low-Life, Brotherhood and Technique and it just didn't work. Correct me if I misunderstand, but it puzzles me a bit why you would list Unknown Pleasures and especially Closer as being such highlights in the band's career, but you say that Movement is not comparable in quality to those albums. Movement seems to me to be much more closely linked, in terms of overall sound, to Joy Division than the later albums you mentioned.

I'm referring to something I favour, not something that merely sounds similar.

Example: There are a lot of bands that have tried to sound like Joy Division but that doesn't mean they've approached their quality.

Do you like Movement more than Closer? Just curious.

Nah, I like Closer better, but I still think that Movement sounds more or less like a logical progression in terms of overall sound. The production of an album really doesn't bother me as much as the actual music itself, and I personally find quite a kinship between the sounds of the Joy Division albums and Movement, so it always makes me a bit suspicious how many New Order fans revere the former but dismiss the latter. I'll admit that the production on Movement is a bit sluggish on a few songs, and that Barney really isn't singing too well (but that isn't really a stretch of the imagination, now is it?)--although Hooky didn't exactly wow me with his vocal prowess either--but the overall songs sound remarkably like Joy Division, which shouldn't surprise anyone since 3/4 remaining members were still there. Sure, Barney isn't as good a singer as Ian was (especially trying to sound like him on that album), and comparatively speaking he sure can't write lyrics, but I think the overall sound of the album is quite good. Only one skippable track (ICB), and that's pretty good, so I don't really see why so many people make it a skippable album. I think it has more value than as a stepping-stone, a conversation piece in the band's progression; I rather find it to be one of the band's most consistant albums (just look at the same Joy Division-influenced sound popping up again and again later on; for example, Sunrise sounds like it could've easily been on Movement). You don't get songs like BLT on Movement, but you sure get a lot of good stuff.

you skip ICB? one of my favorites. come on Pope, you gotta be kidding.

it's so far away, it seems to draw me in

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope (just look at the same Joy Division-influenced sound popping up again and again later on; for example, Sunrise sounds like it could've easily been on Movement).

Eh ? You need your lugs cleaning out !

i see what he's saying about Sunrise. I've always though Sunrise was just Procession plus 3 or 4 years. Same basic structure and mood but with 85 technology instead of 81.

I've said this before, Movement & PCl (and all singles up to & including 84)epitomise to me what New order are (were). Dont get me wrong I like all their stuff but this period really does it for me. Barneys flattish vocals (emotioneless some people may say) totally complemented the music then which had a sinister eerie feel then...primitive electronics, the pulse like rythms, listen to truth really LOUD and you will see what I mean - try watching Nosferatu with that on. PCL moved on a different axis but had a unique sound and revolutionary and enigmatic spirit..

enuff for now

If this was a question of style, then the Movement era wins hands down. Take a look at the old videos and photos (Phillipe Carly) Much better aesthetically in those days. VOCALS: Overall, Barneys vocals and were at it's best early 82. Riverside, Newcastle, North London Poly, Brussels, Paris et al. They fitted the music perfectly.

Originally posted by Solitude If this was a question of style, then the Movement era wins hands down.Take a look at the old videos and photos (Phillipe Carly)Much better aesthetically in those days.VOCALS: Overall, Barneys vocals and were at it's best early 82. Riverside, Newcastle, North London Poly, Brussels, Paris et al. They fitted the music perfectly.

I agree that the image in the early days was better, but you have to give respect to the late Eighties-era hits that made them more than just a blip on the radar. Blue Monday started it, to be sure, but BLT and True Faith opened the door to a brief flirtation with "rock god" status. Not everything NO did in the '85-90 period is top-notch (Shellshock?) but that was a good time musically for them, they really expanded the airwaves.

Originally posted by Known Pleasures > Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope> (just look at the same Joy Division-influenced sound popping up again and again later on; for example, Sunrise sounds like it could've easily been on Movement).

Eh ? You need your lugs cleaning out !

Sunrise sounds like Novelty in my opinion. New Order and Joy Division trying to sound like a heavy metal band.

Right,

Movement is a good album, but (IMHO) its the end of Joy Division instead of the start of something new. OK OK its purely a NO album but its made and produced like the JD stuff, and even Hooky himself thinks this.

PCL and Blue Monday probablhy mark the real start of New Order...

And incidentally, my fave album is Get Ready, so i dont show sympathy to any era...

I've actually always felt that PC&L was the "true" follow-up to Closer, in terms of style and sound, being a further exploration and refinement of the more electronic aspects of their music that JD had started playing around with on Closer. Movement has always seemed a bit of an abberation to me, more of a step sideways than either backwards or forwards, but there's no denying that NO did need to get that stuff out of their collective systems before they could move forwards.

None of this means I don't like Movement though...

Movement has always seemed a bit of an abberation to me, more of a step sideways than either backwards or forwards, but there's no denying that NO did need to get that stuff out of their collective systems before they could move forwards.

After getting knocked on their ass and deciding to stand up on their own any direction but down was a step up. Movement was verification of the truth for them. They started over with all new songs written by themselves, gigged them and then recorded the album. Starting over utterly alone. Perhaps this is why the album is so appealling to those that rank it so high--looking at the album objectively without the knowledge of the band's history and leaving out emotions is extremely difficult.

I remember one time I went to Six Flags Magic Mountain, while I was waiting in line to get on "The X" they played the Pump Panel Remix of "Confusion" over the speakers. I was pretty shocked. I mean, an amusement park playing New Order. That brought a smile to my face.

Originally posted by The Dick I remember one time I went to Six Flags Magic Mountain, while I was waiting in line to get on "The X" they played the Pump Panel Remix of "Confusion" over the speakers. I was pretty shocked. I mean, an amusement park playing New Order. That brought a smile to my face.

I'd hardly consider that remix to be New Order.

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/playinggod/030722_playinggod.shtml

You know, this PlayingGod article linked above is rather a good idea. I agree with a lot of comments above: that it is let down by flat, dense production. It's got spooky Hannett noises on it but somehow they're buried as opposed to the space they breathe into Unknown Pleasures. Once the upbeat Dreams Never End finishes you've got 7 tracks that packed together feel claustrophobic whereas if the singles and b-sides and session tracks from 81-82 were inserted and the order shaken up you'd have something much better. Think I feel a "Movement Redux" CD burn idea coming on. I haven't played Mesh since 1987. I've completely forgotten what it sounds like, so I'm off to find my EGG 12".

Originally posted by Andrew Unterberger http://www.stylusmagazine.com/playinggod/030722_playinggod.shtml

Thanks for this link.Some interesting ideas here.Must make a CD-R of this and see how it sounds together.MORE MOVEMENT.:)

It all comes down to how the individual listener approaches an album - some will focus on the production, others on specific instruments (including vocals), others on the image etc. For me it's 90% emotional impact - what do I feel when I lie down between the speakers and close my eyes - where do the songs take me, what do they make me feel. I can't listen to Movement without remembering the massive impact it had on me when I first heard it at 14 years of age - the bleakness, the uncertainty, the almost underground sound quality - it all just made perfect sense to me at the time. For that reason alone I can only believe that someone would call it "dull" if they listened to it with no feelings at all, with clinical detachment.

Originally posted by Push I can't listen to Movement without remembering the massive impact it had on me when I first heard it at 14 years of age - the bleakness, the uncertainty, the almost underground sound quality - it all just made perfect sense to me at the time. For that reason alone I can only believe that someone would call it "dull" if they listened to it with no feelings at all, with clinical detachment.

Yeah. I can see why the band themselves would be unhappy with the production (murkier than Closer), the singing (shaky) or the songwriting (feeling its way in the dark), but none of that mattered to me when I heard it. The mood, particularly of the second side (I disagree with "Playing God"'s dislike of it) is inexorable. I forget where I am by the end. I didn't start with JD, either, the first NO song I heard was Shellshock.

I'm not sure I'd agree with God's track order either, but I like the idea, I'll have to try it out. My own version of Get Ready has the b-sides and Here to Stay added in the middle and it kicks ass.

I've always wanted to like Movement, I mean I've tried to like it , Ilike the Peels, I like Taras, I would assume that live they were great and intense, but somehow I feels too murky, or turbid, it's hard to put it in writing. Like the feelings are surpressed on purpose, unlike the same songs (and others from the era) on the Peels. Must be the production then. I'll try another listen over the weekend.

Mmmmm I dont really like Sunrise that much anyhow, sounds like Barney's trying to rip off a Robert Smith vocal line

The second side of Movement is practically soulsucking, without any sort of melody or poetry to back it up or validate it. Only recently has it grown on me enough that I can listen to it without praying for release.